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Nightblades are still strong
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Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
You are wrong.
Why i am wrong. Wtf is wrong with people giving random statements without providing ANY reason. Omg
Dude, as a top player in this game, you are wrong believe me, in vMA now stamblades are ***, in solo roleplay ***, in pvp extremely weak(i mean defenses), you will not ALWAYS get those nerfed buffs, especially in random dungeon runs where even 810+ players most of the times dont know how to play!!! and many many other things
Why are stamblades in vma *** now? Cause they lost major fracture and minor endurance? How come other classes without access to These buffs can still do it pretty good. I dont think stamblades are *** now.
What is solo roleplay? Roleplay gets effected by loosing major fracute? Dont know never been in this roleplay thingy
Defense wise in PvP normal damage stamblades lost minor Maim on Fear. Okay got it. But doesnt the main defense from stamblades just come from avoiding damage by dodge roll and cloak?
I feel you die too much because of NBs in pvp... here is why you agree with nerfs and even saying that NBs still strong... learn to play mate
You keep saying stamina Nightblades are Bad now, unplayable and not strong anymore. I gave you examples on why i think they are still strong.
Can you also give reasons and examples on why they are not strong anymore?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Gnozo , I'm stamDK main, I can spend a year counting my problems, but right now my only problem is you trying to pull invalid arguments to convince that NB nerfs don't matter and sNB fracture is now in line with sDK's or stamden's. Doesn't work like that, sorry. ^^
I didnt said they dont matter. What mean is that they simply arent that bad that it Worth 1047862 threads about Nightblades to be useless now.
They just need to search for another source of major fracture wich isnt a big deal tho and they still have crazy single target damage compared to other classes.
Should I really quote you about them being in line with Noxious and Sub Assault? And 'crazy single target' is emotional argument, not quantitative. Quantitative would be... say recent parses from Murkmire that show stamdens and stamplars pulling about the same damage on a parse. So no, damage's not an argument either. "Search another source" is a moot argument for many reasons. Mark Target doesn't qualify - extra GCD without damage, and without practically usable effects beside debuffs. And boy, do I need to remind you that sNBs are tight on bar space because they have too many mandatory stuff on bars - separate execute, separate spammable, two buffs/procs (both also can't be dropped), trap, rending and trio of standard skills on bow bar. No flex spot for anything but Vigor. As a stamDK, I both have a flex spot on back bar and my Noxious actually deals damage (and applies AoE fracture). No such luxury on sNB, every skill you drop amounts to lost damage.Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
You are wrong.
Why i am wrong. Wtf is wrong with people giving random statements without providing ANY reason. Omg
Dude, as a top player in this game, you are wrong believe me, in vMA now stamblades are ***, in solo roleplay ***, in pvp extremely weak(i mean defenses), you will not ALWAYS get those nerfed buffs, especially in random dungeon runs where even 810+ players most of the times dont know how to play!!! and many many other things
Why are stamblades in vma *** now? Cause they lost major fracture and minor endurance? How come other classes without access to These buffs can still do it pretty good. I dont think stamblades are *** now.
What is solo roleplay? Roleplay gets effected by loosing major fracute? Dont know never been in this roleplay thingy
Defense wise in PvP normal damage stamblades lost minor Maim on Fear. Okay got it. But doesnt the main defense from stamblades just come from avoiding damage by dodge roll and cloak?
Other classes have other things going for them. Stamsorcs have survivability thanks to surge, for instance, and you don't have to keep light attacking (not always possible) to get easy, strong self-healing going. "Pretty good" is, again, nothing resembling a sensible argument. On stamDK, you usually have to just finish vMA with any score to get on the leaderboard (very handy to get coffers with second weapon on Mondays), few are crazy enough to run, and I'm pretty sure that even that half-empty leaderboard is chock full of magDKs. If other classes manage to clear vMA too, it doesn't say anything about how much do they struggle there.3 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Gnozo
Magblade is not destroyed for PvP. It's arguably better than last patch, mostly due to extraneous factors like RAT and Scales changes. There are a couple of issues though that need looking at in PTS though.
1. Merciless
Merciless requires casting twice, once to activate it and once to use it after 5 light attacks. But without granting any sort of buff anymore that first cast is a complete waste of resources. It makes no sense to cast a skill and get nothing for it. There's no other skill like it in the game. They need to add some minor/major buff to it, even if it's something weaker than Minor Berserk. Magblades have no source of Major Prophecy for example, it'd be nice to get that and rely less on spell power pots. Or something else, anything really is better than nothing at all.
2. Siphoning Heals
By siphoning heals, I mean the heals you get while doing damage. Think Swallow/Funnel, Sap, Siphoning Attacks and now Merciless. My problem is half of those, the heals scale with the dmg you do to the opponent. And the damage is affected not only by battle spirit, but also armor, block and the myriad buffs/debuffs players put on eachother. The merciless heal is arguably OP in PvE, because monsters/bosses don't dodge your attacks and when you can hit +30k bow procs you can fill an HP bar in one shot. And Swallow is a super strong HoT there too, if you're doing vMA or whatnot.
PvP is the exact opposite. First there's no guarantee you'll get those heals, because they're dodgeable. Then when you get them, they are pathetic. Hitting a DK with Swallow or Merciless (if he doesn't block or dodge the bow proc) with 50% Scales mitigation, 25k+ armor (pretty standard in Cyro) on top of minor maim etc. The result is non existing heals. It's kindof OK for skills like Burning Embers to scale that way because it's a HoT that once applied is not dodgeable or blockable and doesn't suffer from the same punishing mechanics as projectiles. But also MagDKs have Cauterize, Power Lash, Stonefist and a burst heal in Coag, all of which scale only with your stats and not the dmg caused.
I don't want anything crazy. I want Funnel/Swallow to become signature magblade skills again and to do that, the HoT needs to scale with your stats only and not the damage you do. Swallow (the highest "selfish" heal) in a BG will heal you for less than half of what Rapid Regen will heal you. And Rapid Regen heals 2 other players others too. If it was a comparable HoT to Rapid for yourself only, then magblades would have a lot more staying power in fights, which they need.
Edited by Maulkin on April 17, 2019 11:27AMEU | PC | AD12 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Gnozo , I'm stamDK main, I can spend a year counting my problems, but right now my only problem is you trying to pull invalid arguments to convince that NB nerfs don't matter and sNB fracture is now in line with sDK's or stamden's. Doesn't work like that, sorry. ^^
I didnt said they dont matter. What mean is that they simply arent that bad that it Worth 1047862 threads about Nightblades to be useless now.
They just need to search for another source of major fracture wich isnt a big deal tho and they still have crazy single target damage compared to other classes.
Should I really quote you about them being in line with Noxious and Sub Assault? And 'crazy single target' is emotional argument, not quantitative. Quantitative would be... say recent parses from Murkmire that show stamdens and stamplars pulling about the same damage on a parse. So no, damage's not an argument either. "Search another source" is a moot argument for many reasons. Mark Target doesn't qualify - extra GCD without damage, and without practically usable effects beside debuffs. And boy, do I need to remind you that sNBs are tight on bar space because they have too many mandatory stuff on bars - separate execute, separate spammable, two buffs/procs (both also can't be dropped), trap, rending and trio of standard skills on bow bar. No flex spot for anything but Vigor. As a stamDK, I both have a flex spot on back bar and my Noxious actually deals damage (and applies AoE fracture). No such luxury on sNB, every skill you drop amounts to lost damage.Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
You are wrong.
Why i am wrong. Wtf is wrong with people giving random statements without providing ANY reason. Omg
Dude, as a top player in this game, you are wrong believe me, in vMA now stamblades are ***, in solo roleplay ***, in pvp extremely weak(i mean defenses), you will not ALWAYS get those nerfed buffs, especially in random dungeon runs where even 810+ players most of the times dont know how to play!!! and many many other things
Why are stamblades in vma *** now? Cause they lost major fracture and minor endurance? How come other classes without access to These buffs can still do it pretty good. I dont think stamblades are *** now.
What is solo roleplay? Roleplay gets effected by loosing major fracute? Dont know never been in this roleplay thingy
Defense wise in PvP normal damage stamblades lost minor Maim on Fear. Okay got it. But doesnt the main defense from stamblades just come from avoiding damage by dodge roll and cloak?
Other classes have other things going for them. Stamsorcs have survivability thanks to surge, for instance, and you don't have to keep light attacking (not always possible) to get easy, strong self-healing going. "Pretty good" is, again, nothing resembling a sensible argument. On stamDK, you usually have to just finish vMA with any score to get on the leaderboard (very handy to get coffers with second weapon on Mondays), few are crazy enough to run, and I'm pretty sure that even that half-empty leaderboard is chock full of magDKs. If other classes manage to clear vMA too, it doesn't say anything about how much do they struggle there.
You know that murkmire was last year right? And stamblades are at the top of dps atm. Ask any competetive raid leader. I literraly never heard about stamden doing more dps then stamblades. Thats a joke.
And maybe we got ourself wrong, i was thinking you talking about PvP Perspective looks like it was PvE. Or? I am confused.
PvE wise stamblades lost major fracture wich comes from a tank anyway except vma and minor berserk wich comes from healer. So in a group/raid nothing changed..... and they will still be able to do vma just fine
Are your complains still about Nightblades recent nerfs or stamdk being on the button of dps?
2 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Gnozo , I'm stamDK main, I can spend a year counting my problems, but right now my only problem is you trying to pull invalid arguments to convince that NB nerfs don't matter and sNB fracture is now in line with sDK's or stamden's. Doesn't work like that, sorry. ^^
I didnt said they dont matter. What mean is that they simply arent that bad that it Worth 1047862 threads about Nightblades to be useless now.
They just need to search for another source of major fracture wich isnt a big deal tho and they still have crazy single target damage compared to other classes.
Should I really quote you about them being in line with Noxious and Sub Assault? And 'crazy single target' is emotional argument, not quantitative. Quantitative would be... say recent parses from Murkmire that show stamdens and stamplars pulling about the same damage on a parse. So no, damage's not an argument either. "Search another source" is a moot argument for many reasons. Mark Target doesn't qualify - extra GCD without damage, and without practically usable effects beside debuffs. And boy, do I need to remind you that sNBs are tight on bar space because they have too many mandatory stuff on bars - separate execute, separate spammable, two buffs/procs (both also can't be dropped), trap, rending and trio of standard skills on bow bar. No flex spot for anything but Vigor. As a stamDK, I both have a flex spot on back bar and my Noxious actually deals damage (and applies AoE fracture). No such luxury on sNB, every skill you drop amounts to lost damage.Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
You are wrong.
Why i am wrong. Wtf is wrong with people giving random statements without providing ANY reason. Omg
Dude, as a top player in this game, you are wrong believe me, in vMA now stamblades are ***, in solo roleplay ***, in pvp extremely weak(i mean defenses), you will not ALWAYS get those nerfed buffs, especially in random dungeon runs where even 810+ players most of the times dont know how to play!!! and many many other things
Why are stamblades in vma *** now? Cause they lost major fracture and minor endurance? How come other classes without access to These buffs can still do it pretty good. I dont think stamblades are *** now.
What is solo roleplay? Roleplay gets effected by loosing major fracute? Dont know never been in this roleplay thingy
Defense wise in PvP normal damage stamblades lost minor Maim on Fear. Okay got it. But doesnt the main defense from stamblades just come from avoiding damage by dodge roll and cloak?
Other classes have other things going for them. Stamsorcs have survivability thanks to surge, for instance, and you don't have to keep light attacking (not always possible) to get easy, strong self-healing going. "Pretty good" is, again, nothing resembling a sensible argument. On stamDK, you usually have to just finish vMA with any score to get on the leaderboard (very handy to get coffers with second weapon on Mondays), few are crazy enough to run, and I'm pretty sure that even that half-empty leaderboard is chock full of magDKs. If other classes manage to clear vMA too, it doesn't say anything about how much do they struggle there.
You know that murkmire was last year right? And stamblades are at the top of dps atm. Ask any competetive raid leader. I literraly never heard about stamden doing more dps then stamblades. Thats a joke.
And maybe we got ourself wrong, i was thinking you talking about PvP Perspective looks like it was PvE. Or? I am confused.
PvE wise stamblades lost major fracture wich comes from a tank anyway except vma and minor berserk wich comes from healer. So in a group/raid nothing changed..... and they will still be able to do vma just fine
Are your complains still about Nightblades recent nerfs or stamdk being on the button of dps?
There were no damage-related changes after the said parses wre done. You're clutching to a straw right here. And current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS. Those parses were all over the forums. And don't tell me that you're oblivious that in a lot of content it's challenging to keep high uptime on Prayer - and of course tank can't debuff each target for DDs (but surprise, DK and warden can). Strictly PvE perspective.
I'm complaining about you generating a pile of nonsense there, nothing else.8 -
gangyzgirl✭✭✭✭You write how healers and tanks make up for what nbs lost. How does that help us in solo world content or VMA or the parses we needed to get into raids. We don’t get any of those buffs in those instances.5 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Gnozo , I'm stamDK main, I can spend a year counting my problems, but right now my only problem is you trying to pull invalid arguments to convince that NB nerfs don't matter and sNB fracture is now in line with sDK's or stamden's. Doesn't work like that, sorry. ^^
I didnt said they dont matter. What mean is that they simply arent that bad that it Worth 1047862 threads about Nightblades to be useless now.
They just need to search for another source of major fracture wich isnt a big deal tho and they still have crazy single target damage compared to other classes.
Should I really quote you about them being in line with Noxious and Sub Assault? And 'crazy single target' is emotional argument, not quantitative. Quantitative would be... say recent parses from Murkmire that show stamdens and stamplars pulling about the same damage on a parse. So no, damage's not an argument either. "Search another source" is a moot argument for many reasons. Mark Target doesn't qualify - extra GCD without damage, and without practically usable effects beside debuffs. And boy, do I need to remind you that sNBs are tight on bar space because they have too many mandatory stuff on bars - separate execute, separate spammable, two buffs/procs (both also can't be dropped), trap, rending and trio of standard skills on bow bar. No flex spot for anything but Vigor. As a stamDK, I both have a flex spot on back bar and my Noxious actually deals damage (and applies AoE fracture). No such luxury on sNB, every skill you drop amounts to lost damage.Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
You are wrong.
Why i am wrong. Wtf is wrong with people giving random statements without providing ANY reason. Omg
Dude, as a top player in this game, you are wrong believe me, in vMA now stamblades are ***, in solo roleplay ***, in pvp extremely weak(i mean defenses), you will not ALWAYS get those nerfed buffs, especially in random dungeon runs where even 810+ players most of the times dont know how to play!!! and many many other things
Why are stamblades in vma *** now? Cause they lost major fracture and minor endurance? How come other classes without access to These buffs can still do it pretty good. I dont think stamblades are *** now.
What is solo roleplay? Roleplay gets effected by loosing major fracute? Dont know never been in this roleplay thingy
Defense wise in PvP normal damage stamblades lost minor Maim on Fear. Okay got it. But doesnt the main defense from stamblades just come from avoiding damage by dodge roll and cloak?
Other classes have other things going for them. Stamsorcs have survivability thanks to surge, for instance, and you don't have to keep light attacking (not always possible) to get easy, strong self-healing going. "Pretty good" is, again, nothing resembling a sensible argument. On stamDK, you usually have to just finish vMA with any score to get on the leaderboard (very handy to get coffers with second weapon on Mondays), few are crazy enough to run, and I'm pretty sure that even that half-empty leaderboard is chock full of magDKs. If other classes manage to clear vMA too, it doesn't say anything about how much do they struggle there.
You know that murkmire was last year right? And stamblades are at the top of dps atm. Ask any competetive raid leader. I literraly never heard about stamden doing more dps then stamblades. Thats a joke.
And maybe we got ourself wrong, i was thinking you talking about PvP Perspective looks like it was PvE. Or? I am confused.
PvE wise stamblades lost major fracture wich comes from a tank anyway except vma and minor berserk wich comes from healer. So in a group/raid nothing changed..... and they will still be able to do vma just fine
Are your complains still about Nightblades recent nerfs or stamdk being on the button of dps?
There were no damage-related changes after the said parses wre done. You're clutching to a straw right here. And current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS. Those parses were all over the forums. And don't tell me that you're oblivious that in a lot of content it's challenging to keep high uptime on Prayer - and of course tank can't debuff each target for DDs (but surprise, DK and warden can). Strictly PvE perspective.
I'm complaining about you generating a pile of nonsense there, nothing else.
You act like stamblades are unplayable now and can be deleted anyway. Recent dps parses Show that its now more in line with other classes. Whats wrong with this? I dont get it.2 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvE - Minor mangle affects execute dps for a lot of trash fights and some elite mobs like gargoyles in hrc.0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭For PVE magblade is not a recommendable choice now.
For average up to good players, the cripple change (10 secs now) makes it very hard to use in a static rotation.
The merciless resolve change force you to always fire off the bow at least 2 times in 20 sec or it will be a dps loss.
But only if you can fire off the bow 3 times I would call it 'worth to slot/use'
With all those trial mechanics (cloudrest portal phase is a good example) everyone is better off unslotting it and slot it again for score runs (ok, the first mistake was to take a magblade for a score run) or dummy parses.
In a non score run the dps loss from the missing minor berserk buff ist about 3-4% of your final dps.
Considering magblade was already behind other classes in terms of dps on live, they will be the worst class dps wise again now. Not even mentioning their like non existing utility toolkit and halfway good healing toolkit (zero selfheal without targetable enemy, no burst heal)
Magblade was like:
Hard rotation but good dps.
Now it's like:
Hard rotation and bad dps.
GG
RIPPTS-EU6 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.12 -
Zedrian✭✭✭@Gnozo
Magblade is not destroyed for PvP. It's arguably better than last patch, mostly due to extraneous factors like RAT and Scales changes. There are a couple of issues though that need looking at in PTS though.
1. Merciless
Merciless requires casting twice, once to activate it and once to use it after 5 light attacks. But without granting any sort of buff anymore that first cast is a complete waste of resources. It makes no sense to cast a skill and get nothing for it. There's no other skill like it in the game. They need to add some minor/major buff to it, even if it's something weaker than Minor Berserk. Magblades have no source of Major Prophecy for example, it'd be nice to get that and rely less on spell power pots. Or something else, anything really is better than nothing at all.
For PvE, I find that the magblade is sub par to the other Magicka classes in terms of damage. I agree with you regarding the Merciless that requires casting. Maybe this skill should be always active as long as it is in one of your bar if it doesn't provide an extra buff when casting. Maybe not having it proc on % chance like the Sorcerer crystal, but have it proc for every 4-5 light attacks. You get more damage using Elemental Weapon than proccing the bow and rebuffing right now.5 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.3 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.6 -
TheValar85✭✭✭✭✭Poision arrow needs to be tweeked down, that one hit killing ability from stealth is a cancer in pvp.
It penetrates so over powerdly everything. Im sorry but that ability needs to be tweeked down. Radically.GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERPGM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP GuildGM Of The Guardians Of MiddleEarthMy Smiling Emperor Profile Picture: https://ibb.co/bsOM6n0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Gnozo
Magblade is not destroyed for PvP. It's arguably better than last patch, mostly due to extraneous factors like RAT and Scales changes. There are a couple of issues though that need looking at in PTS though.
1. Merciless
Merciless requires casting twice, once to activate it and once to use it after 5 light attacks. But without granting any sort of buff anymore that first cast is a complete waste of resources. It makes no sense to cast a skill and get nothing for it. There's no other skill like it in the game. They need to add some minor/major buff to it, even if it's something weaker than Minor Berserk. Magblades have no source of Major Prophecy for example, it'd be nice to get that and rely less on spell power pots. Or something else, anything really is better than nothing at all.
For PvE, I find that the magblade is sub par to the other Magicka classes in terms of damage. I agree with you regarding the Merciless that requires casting. Maybe this skill should be always active as long as it is in one of your bar if it doesn't provide an extra buff when casting. Maybe not having it proc on % chance like the Sorcerer crystal, but have it proc for every 4-5 light attacks. You get more damage using Elemental Weapon than proccing the bow and rebuffing right now.
I don't PvE that much these days, so I can't tell how magblade fairs to be honest.
I believe the problem with the solution proposed above is that in ESO a skill that's on an off/inactive bar is literally off your bars. Skills either require casting and provide an effect for a duration regardless of whether it's on your bars at all (think about how we cast Rapid Manoeuvers which we then immediately remove of our bars) or they apply an effect while on your active bar only. There's no skill that works like you proposed.
I'm not saying it's not doable for ZOS to change that. I'm saying it's probably unlikely to make a change in mechanics like that, which will require new development and testing during the PTS cycles. They only really do bug fixing, balance tweaking and small changes in PTS.
I think the realistic options to improve the skill before it hits live are:
a) Initial cast costs nothing, but bow procs cost ~2k to fire off. Only loss is the GCD it takes to cast it.
b) A buff is added to the skill to replace Minor Berserk, to justify the cost of the cast.
c) It works like Frags (no initial cast, only counts attacks from front bar) and the number of light attacks required goes down to 3.
Edited by Maulkin on April 17, 2019 12:18PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yeah, I'm not surprised that you celebrate these "nerfs" (can't even call it nerfs, it's more like removing light and med armor Nb from the game) since you're crying about months about how OP Nb is. Disgusting.
Yep, the lost of major fracture on your 15K surprise attack literraly makes it unplayable now.
15K surprise attack tooltip lol. Keep posting your build editor screenshots with all buffs available to make skills look OP. Power Extraction now has pretty much 93% of Surprise Attacks damage, yeah that's fine...
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=115798
Buffs are:
Tri stat potion
Rally
Weapon Damage Enchant
C. Attack
Surprise attack tooltip: 15288
Lets remove c attack:
Surprise attack tooltip: 14264
And thats without damage sets as you can seem just shackle bone Pirate and Bloodspawn. Full sustain. And race is redguard, imagine orc for even more damage.2 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Gnozo
If you don’t understand what is wrong how about you try playing the class so that you can understand CONTEXT
Member of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg10 -
albatz1377Soul Shrivenok i don't even know where to start ..magblades are totally dead now..there forcing a specific play style on stamblades. let me just say if your getting killed by NB of any type it pvp build to prevent that slot magelight you need to carry some kind of detect sorry its just a thing i waist a slot with hunter too. the reason NB are F**** in vma now is there killing our burst damage which we need to cut down spawns as we have no defensive shield unless we use light armor in which case we lose all passives from md armor.they took fracture away because they want us to use mark. mark is crap ..how can you be a stealth player if your announcing your hit."hey your marked start blocking ill be there in a sec cause i cant use my gap closer it no longer stuns so its kinda pointless.. oh and dont forget to shield up cause i dont have any real source of defile so ill never be able to cut you down with my DW enchants that are now half and dont proc at the same time so i never have the same proc ability and 2H ...you know what.... never mind im just gunna sit in the corner dont snare me while i run away they took any way to get away from relentless snares and stuns last patch ...o wait they put it back ?? oh its in another skill like now? ok whatever "i didnt even mention RF you took away a buff and gave use a heal that with battlespirit will be absolutely nothing..you gave us a heal cause we have crap heals in the first place..but then down the page they nerf our gold and purple food..how can you say your trying to improve our survive ability then hobble our food that takes forever or tons of gold to get in the first place why gave gold anything if there not better then the 3 stat? if you have problems with NB in pvp you need to get better ..im not saying that to be a D bag there is already a bunch of ways to flatten a NB.people who know me in this game know i never talk down to people any always try to be a decent person..but honestly NB's have been getting crap forever in pvp which leads to out kit getting changed every single patch and im kinda sick of it.it sucks cause i dont like getting mad about playing my favorite game. solo pve is gunna suck withought fracture. zos keeps saying you can play how you want ..apparently except if you want to be a NB then F you you should be using these skills. let me close by saying if you think spin to win was bad now what are you gunna do when you get feared and you get clobbered with razor caltrops and spins oh wait never mind we wont have the stamina cause we have no more major endurance .now that i got that out of my system i can resume my normal level of civility...thank you5 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@Gnozo , I'm stamDK main, I can spend a year counting my problems, but right now my only problem is you trying to pull invalid arguments to convince that NB nerfs don't matter and sNB fracture is now in line with sDK's or stamden's. Doesn't work like that, sorry. ^^
I didnt said they dont matter. What mean is that they simply arent that bad that it Worth 1047862 threads about Nightblades to be useless now.
They just need to search for another source of major fracture wich isnt a big deal tho and they still have crazy single target damage compared to other classes.
Should I really quote you about them being in line with Noxious and Sub Assault? And 'crazy single target' is emotional argument, not quantitative. Quantitative would be... say recent parses from Murkmire that show stamdens and stamplars pulling about the same damage on a parse. So no, damage's not an argument either. "Search another source" is a moot argument for many reasons. Mark Target doesn't qualify - extra GCD without damage, and without practically usable effects beside debuffs. And boy, do I need to remind you that sNBs are tight on bar space because they have too many mandatory stuff on bars - separate execute, separate spammable, two buffs/procs (both also can't be dropped), trap, rending and trio of standard skills on bow bar. No flex spot for anything but Vigor. As a stamDK, I both have a flex spot on back bar and my Noxious actually deals damage (and applies AoE fracture). No such luxury on sNB, every skill you drop amounts to lost damage.Jagdkommando wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Hello Forumblades,
I just wanted to point out a few things cause i mostly see Nightblades saying the class is dead and unplayable now without really saying why.
I was going over the changes done in Update 22 and dont really see any big and class destroying Things.
1. Incap trading Major Defile for Minor Mangle
PvE: Doesnt effect it at all
PvP: Minor Mangle is a strong debuff and reduces Health by 2k when you just have 20k and gets even stronger the more health your target got. Makes it effective against high Health builds.
2. Grim Focus loosing minor berserk/minor endurance
PvE: In an optimized group you have a healer with Combat prayer that is giving you minor berserk so you get this buff anyway. Also you have the best sustain out of all classes dps wise and i think you can handle a loss of 10% stam Recovery.
PvP: you lost minor berserk but gained Minor Vulnerability wich is a much more potent damage increase. And for loosing minor endurance maybe its time to put 1 stam Recovery glyph instead of all weapon damage. You already get 15% more Recovery just by a passive... Come on....
Fear
PvE: Dont think anyone seriously using that...
PvP: You lost snare and Maim on it but you can fear Up to 6! Targets. And you lock them in place now. A spammable CC for 6 targets... Jesus.
Dark cloak:
Heal got less but you also have a longer uptime in minor protection
Shade:
Got buffed, esspecially on stambuilds
Surprise attack loosing major fracture:
PvE: The tank already provides this debuff. With the new debuff to resist you can reduce resist now even more
PvP: Suprise attack already got the highest tooltip out of every single target spammable with Instant damage. Also providing major fracture and proccing your armor buffs passively was really overloaded. Every other class need to either slot ransack (way less damage compared to surp Attack while doing the exact same thing in pvp) or a secondary skill to get major fracture (noxios, sub assault). So Nightblades just got put in line with other classes and their acces to major fracture.
So in general, PvE wise nothing really changed and PvP wise Nightblades just lost some damage while being the number one single target damage class. And guess what, they will still be a top Tier class.
Why you all saying Nightblades got destroyed and are useless now?
You are wrong.
Why i am wrong. Wtf is wrong with people giving random statements without providing ANY reason. Omg
Dude, as a top player in this game, you are wrong believe me, in vMA now stamblades are ***, in solo roleplay ***, in pvp extremely weak(i mean defenses), you will not ALWAYS get those nerfed buffs, especially in random dungeon runs where even 810+ players most of the times dont know how to play!!! and many many other things
Why are stamblades in vma *** now? Cause they lost major fracture and minor endurance? How come other classes without access to These buffs can still do it pretty good. I dont think stamblades are *** now.
What is solo roleplay? Roleplay gets effected by loosing major fracute? Dont know never been in this roleplay thingy
Defense wise in PvP normal damage stamblades lost minor Maim on Fear. Okay got it. But doesnt the main defense from stamblades just come from avoiding damage by dodge roll and cloak?
Other classes have other things going for them. Stamsorcs have survivability thanks to surge, for instance, and you don't have to keep light attacking (not always possible) to get easy, strong self-healing going. "Pretty good" is, again, nothing resembling a sensible argument. On stamDK, you usually have to just finish vMA with any score to get on the leaderboard (very handy to get coffers with second weapon on Mondays), few are crazy enough to run, and I'm pretty sure that even that half-empty leaderboard is chock full of magDKs. If other classes manage to clear vMA too, it doesn't say anything about how much do they struggle there.
You know that murkmire was last year right? And stamblades are at the top of dps atm. Ask any competetive raid leader. I literraly never heard about stamden doing more dps then stamblades. Thats a joke.
And maybe we got ourself wrong, i was thinking you talking about PvP Perspective looks like it was PvE. Or? I am confused.
PvE wise stamblades lost major fracture wich comes from a tank anyway except vma and minor berserk wich comes from healer. So in a group/raid nothing changed..... and they will still be able to do vma just fine
Are your complains still about Nightblades recent nerfs or stamdk being on the button of dps?
There were no damage-related changes after the said parses wre done. You're clutching to a straw right here. And current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS. Those parses were all over the forums. And don't tell me that you're oblivious that in a lot of content it's challenging to keep high uptime on Prayer - and of course tank can't debuff each target for DDs (but surprise, DK and warden can). Strictly PvE perspective.
I'm complaining about you generating a pile of nonsense there, nothing else.
You act like stamblades are unplayable now and can be deleted anyway. Recent dps parses Show that its now more in line with other classes. Whats wrong with this? I dont get it.
What you don't get is that stamblades already were in line with two other classes (and stamsorcs /stamdks needed buffs because they're in the total gutter), see Liko's parses. And you act like they're way ahead, which isn't holding true for long, long time already.
I'm not sure why you feel I act like stamblades can be deleted. That's definitely a wrong impression. I act like I always do when someone tries to misrepresent things and equalize Mark Target and Sub Assault or Noxious Breath, that's a more narrow case. You're trying to present it like nothing changed for sNBs, while ignoring that new feature of SA is objectively garbage (it's basically fraction of mace buff, and there's reason why maces are not used), that sNB toolkit is spread too thin for them to rely on separate source of Fracture (more so such clumsy as Mark Target), all those things that go against your 'oh you're fine!' proclamation. Objectively, in most PvE scenarios, sNBs have lost a lot of damage - in fights with mechanics, in fights that spread a lot, in trash pulls, and there's no compensation for that.
So, the usual "I hate sNBs and I feel they should be nerfed, so I desperately need to justify that" sort of post, very one-sided and without real arguments. I'm expressing my disappointment with that. I want constructive posts, not hate posts. Consider:
- What I heard:
"Oh, you have great sustain anyway, you'll be fine without 10% you whiners."
- What I expected to hear:
"The loss of Minor Endurance is offset in PvE by increased duration of Relentless Focus. As an example, base stamina recovery with DCT food buff is 833, with Minor Endurance amounting to the loss of 83 regen. Previously, a cast of Relentless Focus amounted to -2295 / 20 * 2 = -229.5 equivalent drain; with duration increased to 30 seconds, it would now be -2295 / 30 * 2 = -153 drain, so the gain from increased duration would amount to 76 regen. So, in a good PvE rotation that doesn't overcast Relentless, the savings from increased duration almost compensate for loss of Endurance buff, and can even outweigh it on races like redguard that use blue food (for low base regen) and class passive for flat amount of stamina return that is not buffed by percentage bonuses."
You caught the drift. ^^8 -
Frooke✭✭✭the "Brawler" way to play a Stamblade is dead now, Ambush is a joke, good stamblades don't need that, and there is no 15k surprise attack. Bleed builds are dead now, Heavy Armor builds too, let's all play as a gank, this will be the only viable way.
Well... Grim Focus is a garbage now, and I wont have enough magicka for keeping marking targets in pvp, so Major Fracture is out
Minor Mangle is a bad joke too, since ppl insta break free most of time
Play as a gank or surrender to necromancer2 -
royo✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^1 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭All i see is crying about how useless stamblades are now after loosing major fracture and minor berserk.
Thats nonsense. You can still have great damage in PvP and also vma wont be much harder now.5 -
royo✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »current meta is a bunch of bow-bow stamdens in vAS.
There were no stamdens in the world record runs. In every trial except cloudrest, the world record boards are dominated by stamblades, including vas.
Stamblades in vAS+3? Or, you know, generally stamina? Mm-m-mkay. ^^
Not sure what you're saying, but vAS is only +2 on hardmode, and yes, the world record has 7 stamblades.2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Gnozo
Magblade is not destroyed for PvP. It's arguably better than last patch, mostly due to extraneous factors like RAT and Scales changes. There are a couple of issues though that need looking at in PTS though.
1. Merciless
Merciless requires casting twice, once to activate it and once to use it after 5 light attacks. But without granting any sort of buff anymore that first cast is a complete waste of resources. It makes no sense to cast a skill and get nothing for it. There's no other skill like it in the game. They need to add some minor/major buff to it, even if it's something weaker than Minor Berserk. Magblades have no source of Major Prophecy for example, it'd be nice to get that and rely less on spell power pots. Or something else, anything really is better than nothing at all.
2. Siphoning Heals
By siphoning heals, I mean the heals you get while doing damage. Think Swallow/Funnel, Sap, Siphoning Attacks and now Merciless. My problem is half of those, the heals scale with the dmg you do to the opponent. And the damage is affected not only by battle spirit, but also armor, block and the myriad buffs/debuffs players put on eachother. The merciless heal is arguably OP in PvE, because monsters/bosses don't dodge your attacks and when you can hit +30k bow procs you can fill an HP bar in one shot. And Swallow is a super strong HoT there too, if you're doing vMA or whatnot.
PvP is the exact opposite. First there's no guarantee you'll get those heals, because they're dodgeable. Then when you get them, they are pathetic. Hitting a DK with Swallow or Merciless (if he doesn't block or dodge the bow proc) with 50% Scales mitigation, 25k+ armor (pretty standard in Cyro) on top of minor maim etc. The result is non existing heals. It's kindof OK for skills like Burning Embers to scale that way because it's a HoT that once applied is not dodgeable or blockable and doesn't suffer from the same punishing mechanics as projectiles. But also MagDKs have Cauterize, Power Lash, Stonefist and a burst heal in Coag, all of which scale only with your stats and not the dmg caused.
I don't want anything crazy. I want Funnel/Swallow to become signature magblade skills again and to do that, the HoT needs to scale with your stats only and not the damage you do. Swallow (the highest "selfish" heal) in a BG will heal you for less than half of what Rapid Regen will heal you. And Rapid Regen heals 2 other players others too. If it was a comparable HoT to Rapid for yourself only, then magblades would have a lot more staying power in fights, which they need.
Very good points. Much agreed.4
