ESO Logs: Invasive or Useful?

dazee · April 2019

Invasive

Even FFXIV logs has a way to hide your personal data.

witchdoctor · April 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Just want to chime in as it relates to the debate regarding EU law and privacy concerns.

Terms of service are not laws - nor do they have the weight of law. So it really doesn't matter what a player agrees to when they sign up to play a game. If the actions violate the consumer protections of a certain country they are liable and vulnerable to lawsuits regardless of the ToS.

This is especially the case in ESO - which basically says they can do what ever they want in the ToS and that everything is subject to change. Courts have already thrown out Terms of Services in the past that were so open-ended and included provisions like that. Terms of Service are not > the law nor do they give companies free reign to violate the consumer protection or privacy laws in the country they are operating. That being said - I'm unfamiliar with European Law so I have no idea if such a log would actually violate their consumer protection or privacy laws or not (I rather doubt it to be honest). But if it does - then it does - and the ToS wouldn't change that.

I don't think anyone claims (seriously) that TOS supersedes law.

But I do claim that ZOS has far better access to legal advice then what passes as arm-chair lawyering around here.

That's not the impression I got. I've read several comments in this thread that seemed to be suggesting that the terms of service was the only thing that mattered.

Uh ... the only thing I saw that was putting TOS as the 'rule,' was the claim by one person that their physical purchase of the install disk entitled them to anything.

I think its fair to say, it does not.

Their purchase of the game entitles them to the same consumer and privacy protections afforded to them when making any other purchase. That's something all companies have to submit to before doing business in a country. The terms of service cannot change that. That's the point I am making here.

So the correct debate to have would be whether or not enabling this "log" violates actual European consumer/privacy laws. To focus on the Terms of Service is a misnomer and not really relevant to that discussion.

Which may be true. (It is not my area of law).

It was not their claim (or at least what I understood their claim to be).

Otherwise, I tend to side with Varanis above on the 'crux' of the matter. Just make anonymous the default.

I better agree with Coop last page: add in an opt-out.

Jeremy · April 2019

witchdoctor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Just want to chime in as it relates to the debate regarding EU law and privacy concerns.

Terms of service are not laws - nor do they have the weight of law. So it really doesn't matter what a player agrees to when they sign up to play a game. If the actions violate the consumer protections of a certain country they are liable and vulnerable to lawsuits regardless of the ToS.

This is especially the case in ESO - which basically says they can do what ever they want in the ToS and that everything is subject to change. Courts have already thrown out Terms of Services in the past that were so open-ended and included provisions like that. Terms of Service are not > the law nor do they give companies free reign to violate the consumer protection or privacy laws in the country they are operating. That being said - I'm unfamiliar with European Law so I have no idea if such a log would actually violate their consumer protection or privacy laws or not (I rather doubt it to be honest). But if it does - then it does - and the ToS wouldn't change that.

I don't think anyone claims (seriously) that TOS supersedes law.

But I do claim that ZOS has far better access to legal advice then what passes as arm-chair lawyering around here.

That's not the impression I got. I've read several comments in this thread that seemed to be suggesting that the terms of service was the only thing that mattered.

Uh ... the only thing I saw that was putting TOS as the 'rule,' was the claim by one person that their physical purchase of the install disk entitled them to anything.

I think its fair to say, it does not.

Their purchase of the game entitles them to the same consumer and privacy protections afforded to them when making any other purchase. That's something all companies have to submit to before doing business in a country. The terms of service cannot change that. That's the point I am making here.

So the correct debate to have would be whether or not enabling this "log" violates actual European consumer/privacy laws. To focus on the Terms of Service is a misnomer and not really relevant to that discussion.

Which may be true. (It is not my area of law).

It was not their claim.

Otherwise, I tend to side with Varanis above on the 'crux' of the matter. Just make anonymous the default.

I better agree with Coop last page: add in an opt-out.

I'm no expert on European consumer and privacy protections either. But there are several posters who seem to think this would violate their privacy laws. I'm not saying it does or it doesn't. I'm just saying the Terms of Service would not protect the company if it does. So that's a pointless thing to point to.

karekiz · April 2019

Useful

I vote BG's remove kill / death / assist ratio because people can log on the forums and say <Insert player here> is bad. Since K/D ratio's is basically a DPS parse on steroids.

menathradiel · April 2019

Invasive

Jeremy wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Just want to chime in as it relates to the debate regarding EU law and privacy concerns.

Terms of service are not laws - nor do they have the weight of law. So it really doesn't matter what a player agrees to when they sign up to play a game. If the actions violate the consumer protections of a certain country they are liable and vulnerable to lawsuits regardless of the ToS.

This is especially the case in ESO - which basically says they can do what ever they want in the ToS and that everything is subject to change. Courts have already thrown out Terms of Services in the past that were so open-ended and included provisions like that. Terms of Service are not > the law nor do they give companies free reign to violate the consumer protection or privacy laws in the country they are operating. That being said - I'm unfamiliar with European Law so I have no idea if such a log would actually violate their consumer protection or privacy laws or not (I rather doubt it to be honest). But if it does - then it does - and the ToS wouldn't change that.

I don't think anyone claims (seriously) that TOS supersedes law.

But I do claim that ZOS has far better access to legal advice then what passes as arm-chair lawyering around here.

That's not the impression I got. I've read several comments in this thread that seemed to be suggesting that the terms of service was the only thing that mattered.

Uh ... the only thing I saw that was putting TOS as the 'rule,' was the claim by one person that their physical purchase of the install disk entitled them to anything.

I think its fair to say, it does not.

Their purchase of the game entitles them to the same consumer and privacy protections afforded to them when making any other purchase. That's something all companies have to submit to before doing business in a country. The terms of service cannot change that. That's the point I am making here.

So the correct debate to have would be whether or not enabling this "log" violates actual European privacy laws. To focus on the Terms of Service is a misnomer and not really relevant to that discussion.

A major one would be the passing of personal data to a third party without consent.

For anyone who doesn't understand GDPR, the ToS is not sufficient to count as consent, because (i) consent must be given willingly, (ii) consent must be explicit, not contained within other ToS, (iii) consent should be opt-in, and (iv) there must be an option to refuse or revoke consent.

Your username counts as personal data under GDPR, and as we can see from this comment, your username is among the information being passed to the logging website.

Now I know what you are going to say, because I've seen it in this thread: "No one can identify me from just my username!"

ZoS can. You bought their game.

MissBizz · April 2019

Useful

Just throwing it out there that we don't actually know if the default is anonymous or not.

Just my two cents but ESO is an MMO that has nameplates off by default.... I'd be willing to bet a few gold it's anonymous by default.

Mayrael · April 2019

Useful

I don't understand. If you want to do hardest content, you need to be really good, if you're really good you have nothing to hide. On the other hand to do easier content you don't need to be good, so nobody will care unless you're totally worthless for the group, than again get better.

We have a progress group in our guild (I consider it as my main). People there are dedicated, they spend a lot of time mastering their classes, such tool will help them a lot.

Casterial · April 2019

Useful

WoW uses this, it created a GIANT toxic environment in raids and made people talk about "whats your parse?!" and wouldn't let you in etc.. Its good for guilds, but bad for PUGs.

ZirconJunkie · April 2019

Invasive

Guild leaders who want their members to use this tool can force their members to sign up on the third party website and use it.

Individuals who want to use it can sign up and use it.

Those that do not wish to use it and do not sign up to use it shouldn't have their activities recorded and collected by proxy by a third party. "Anonymous" data collection is still data collection. There needs to be an IN GAME option that is OFF BY DEFAULT resulting in zero data collection of any kind unless you specifically turn it on and sign up to use it on the website.

And now, both sides are happy.

MrGraves · April 2019

Invasive

ZirconJunkie wrote: »

Guild leaders who want their members to use this tool can force their members to sign up on the third party website and use it.

Individuals who want to use it can sign up and use it.

Those that do not wish to use it and do not sign up to use it shouldn't have their activities recorded and collected by proxy by a third party. "Anonymous" data collection is still data collection. There needs to be an IN GAME option that is OFF BY DEFAULT resulting in zero data collection of any kind unless you specifically turn it on and sign up to use it on the website.

And now, both sides are happy.

Idk if it NEEDS it needs to me in game really but it should be off by default IMO. And I'm sure there will be alot of players who wont even know about the logging tool and if it isnt off by default have their data being collected/used without them even knowing which is pretty shady. And like others have mentioned. the addon thats shows people their party members drops. that sucks. Makes people feel violated.

NupidStoob · April 2019

Useful

So much insecurity and ridiculous fearmongering in this thread.

Will there ever be a case where someone is being a *** about it? Sure. Do these people require this tool to be *** or are they anyways? Not at all. It's painfully obvious when someone in your group is bad, I could turn off my UI and could tell. I can then decide if I am being a *** about or not. I wouldn't need a tool for that at all.

99% of the people worried about it will never really be affected.

For those people that cry "elitism" and are scared that groups won't let you join their vet content: That's not elitism. That is fairness to everyone in the group. There are numerous people on these forums crying that they can't do all content in the game while spamming light attacks and call it elitism when someone suggest that they actually learn how to play. It's incredibly selfish. People who flat out refuse to improve or take advise, but expect people who have spent hours upon hours to get better at this game are the real toxic people. Everybody hates the people in school project groups that do nothing and expect the others to do all the work. This is exactly the same thing. This is a teamgame. If you refuse to add anything to a team you are not worth to be in it.

There are numerous very casual guilds that will never require the use of this tool. Just join them if you want to play with like minded people.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

Invasive

Sylvermynx wrote: »

*She* thank you. I am neither "he" or "they".

Disparaging inferences? As how? Asking how they're monetizing? EVERY site these days monetizes. I asked and muh answered. I don't like what they're doing, but *shrug*.... if you want to go there well you certainly can and it's no skin off my nose.

The privacy issues are that you cannot (at this time) simply state that you are not willing to participate period. Until that is an option, well.... I will seriously think about no longer playing this game.

I'd like to change my answer to Useful now. Thanks.

Flares · April 2019

Useful

dazee wrote: »

Even FFXIV logs has a way to hide your personal data.

FFLOGs was made by the same creator, the way to hide your personal data is the exact same, you have to opt out

jainiadral · April 2019

Invasive

coop500 wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

In my opinion, based on what we know:

It appears to be useful for its intended audience: progression-minded groups. Whilst my guild's Discord has amazingly been silent on the development, I suspect that our 2 progression groups (and certainly the more serious of the 2) will ask all of us to enable logging. And I will, because if I can improve somewhere to get us mo' bettah in vMOL, I will.

If one is not in a steady group, then setting yourself to anonymous would be a wise course of action.

Since the logs are not real-time, if one is anonymous, I suspect the chances of actual trolling are remote.

If that is not the case, and trolling becomes too common, I am willing to bet that ZOS will make further iterations on the logging.

Honestly if they allowed people to opt out 100% then I don't think anybody would care.

BINGO. Not sure why the whole idea of opting out is getting so much backlash *shrug* You guys who want this, use it in good health. But let those of us who don't opt out completely.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2019

Invasive

I 100% support this for players that want it but being force to join that’s a big fat no from me. Pretty much going to drop all PvE content once this drops. Next year they will be adding a system for crown to “check” your skills, passives and sets.

dazee · April 2019

Invasive

Flares wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Even FFXIV logs has a way to hide your personal data.

FFLOGs was made by the same creator, the way to hide your personal data is the exact same, you have to opt out

but you can easily do so.

Nifty2g · April 2019

Useful

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I 100% support this for players that want it but being force to join that’s a big fat no from me. Pretty much going to drop all PvE content once this drops. Next year they will be adding a system for crown to “check” your skills, passives and sets.

Bit of an over reaction don't you think?

leeux · April 2019

Invasive

How about if instead of forced logging with fake anonymity if someone in a group used the log command, instead they let us record each of us the data separately and the each of us voluntarily can go to the site and contribute out part of the group separately, and the site aggregates it in a cohesive whole?

Svenja · April 2019

Useful

As a player who would considered "elitist" (because I run endgame content with a coordinated guilds and have some fancy titles), I can just say: I couldn't care less about the logs from dungeons. With combat metrics I can see when the dps is sh** even now. Most "good" players who want this tool and like it don't want it to check useless data of random DDs they encounter in Fungal Grotto 1.

I want this tool to analyze our raids, when I run with my core group. We raid for No-Death-achievements and speed runs, and the faster the run, the better. If this tool can help to check where our buff uptimes aren't good yet and whatnot, I am happy to have it.

And I think I wrote this yesterday already: the people who would give you a hard time because you opt out of this tool are the people who give you a hard time NOW when they look at their Combat Metrics.
You don't run with those people now, and you won't run with them in the future.

This won't be used by craglorn zone pugs for nAA. Who wants to analyze fight data long after the run is over and all the randoms you probably never meet again have already left?

If you want to run trials with a group who "forces" you to use a tool like this in the future, that 100% is a coordinated group that forces you to post your dps parse after every boss fight now. You don't run with those groups either way.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2019

Invasive

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

The only way this could be "ok" and satisfy all players is if they add 3rd option that would basically not record any data if one's decides so, by picking an option in a menu.
So we would have:
1. Default - all is recorded.
2. Anonyms - the game does not record your in game "nick", but records your actions.
3. Disabled - If this option is set, even if some one else in your group records to a log, it will not record any data of yours.
So if 1 player out of 4 has this enable, the log will only record 3 players.

According to @Kihra - ESOLogs dev - your option #3 would make the log completely unusable, so it's not possible to implement that.

Did they said WHY exactly it would not work ? This tool is designed to end game PvE players in mind, so they could improve. This means that if some one is going to use it he/she is in a guild and has a "pre-made" group. And remember - you can not start recording automatically, you need to type a command to a system console. This also means that you can not do this by accident & those "end game" people will have this feature set to "enabled" (not to anonymous).

The option I have proposed would really work if you are pugging the dungeon, trials or BGs. This would prevent from unintended use of this tool to name & shame other players or even (as I mentioned before in my 1st post) creating an addons that will use new esologs website as a data base - So after some time ppl will be able to check certain players dungeon's history before they invite them to a group (or not because of a bad statistics).

This whole story reminds me of other mmo game called "World Of Tanks" & XVM mod (granted it is a different genre but it also has addon / mods support). Up to this date this mod has done more harm than good to game and divided the playerbase.

If you are not familiar with this:

Basically it is a PvP game where you drive a tank in a team based 15 vs 15 (or 7 vs 7) battle. The whole problem is that with XVM mod you have access to player's statistic during battle, based on their account history & achievement (because at some point the devs of the game decided to keep all player stats on a 3rd party website.

"Normal" game:

Game with XVM:
NRhkTz6.jpg?1?9859

As you can see, players were able to have access to overall player statistics during battle, described by additional colours, values, % etc. Note - those are not data captured "live" or "on the fly" but rather based on the account's history. This lead to a situation where ppl were actually quitting the matches right at the beginning because they knew they will be facing much more skilled players. Also they knew which players to focus on early on because they were much greater threat than the others. This was not intended by the devs as they were not thinking ahead "what can happen" in the future, back when they made their decision on player statistics.

I don't want ESO to follow this path.

ynimma · April 2019

Invasive

I thought this is a game. Creating a tool for it makes me believe people have lost their ability of distinction between game and anything else.
Sad this 21st century in a lot of ways. This is one of them. (Closely related to others.)

Parrot1986 · April 2019

Useful

ynimma wrote: »

I thought this is a game. Creating a tool for it makes me believe people have lost their ability of distinction between game and anything else.
Sad this 21st century in a lot of ways. This is one of them. (Closely related to others.)

It is a game and will still be a game after this.
Theres a lot of content in the game that players aren’t able to complete. Zos’ approach up to this point is just to keep nerfing it until enough people can complete it.

This, if used properly, will allow all roles to better understand what went well and what didn’t. It also won’t be an obligation to have and run and despite the massive over reaction on the forums I reckon a small proportion of players will actually use it and this will almost exclusively be in organised trial groups.

Wolfkeks · April 2019

Invasive

@Tommy_The_Gun

I quoted Kihra from the Encounter Log Thread. The problem seems that it's either all data or no data. So atm the only idea that comes to my mind is that ZOS implements a way to make sure everyone agrees (like a ready check) that the data is collected.

Kihra wrote: »

From my perspective, I just need complete fight information for the log to work. A partial log (e.g., if I only see 3 out of 12 people) could actually cause more harm than good, since it could lead people to make incorrect assumptions about what is going on. Healer absorbs would also be undercounted (there are other examples I mentioned also, like buff overwriting). Also, the more data you omit, the easier it would become to mess with the log in ways that would not be as visible.

I'm personally fine with any solution that ensures I get complete fight data, i.e. I'd rather get no data than partial data.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

Invasive

LiquidPony wrote: »

Honestly a lot of the "concerns" being posted here strike me as being somewhat disingenuous and largely misinformed, and the misinformation just keeps spreading and growing as the same people repeatedly throw new straw men on the fire.

That's kinda true, but it's valid for both sides of the argument. People crying "hu hu hu myyy privacyyyyy" (to which I belong) aren't any better than people on the other side asking over and over "how's anonymized data going to hurt your privacy ?".

I don't want people watching over my shoulder. Is that so hard to understand ?
I don't want people watching over my shoulder counting how many coffees I'm having. Even if that someone doesn't know my name. Even if my neighbour can already do that through the window. Even if noone actually cares how many coffees I'm having. I don't want people watching over my shoulder, full stop.

To those saying that it's part of the nature of MMOs and referring to other games using the same logging technique, I'd like to remind that the success of ESO comes from the reputation and decades long success of a single player franchise. Therefore many of us play with a "Elder Scrolls With Friends" set of mind, and therefore aren't going to accept what seems to be accepted in other MMOs. Besides, what we hear from players of other MMOs about the mentality and toxicity in said MMOs isn't going to reassure us that nothing bad will come from this - rather the opposite.

Just make a complete opt-out possible (no recording at all unless everyone in the group agrees) and be done with it. Progression groups can use it and the rest can play in peace.

Edit : and to all those saying that "we're overreacting", may I answer that "you're overcompeting" ?

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

Invasive

LiquidPony wrote: »

Did they said WHY exactly it would not work ?

Yes, and it made sense.
A complete fight report is made of interactions between all players and all mobs, including Damage, Heals, Buffs, Debuffs, DoT, etc. If the healer for instance wears Worm Cult (damage buff for anyone overhealed) and said healer isn't recorded, you'll have trouble later to understand the variation of your own DPS without that info from the Worm Cult set.
Just an example, there are probably more and better ones.

I see why a partial report is a big loss for everyone.

But it shouldn't be that hard to find people who agree and form premade groups. Especially in progression guilds. Let's just limit this tool to groups where everyone agrees, and get rid of "anonymisation".

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2019

Invasive

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Why not have the same uproar with combat metrics since in 4 man content it clearer shows if someone’s DPS is clearer stronger or poorer? That’s real time as well so surely has a greater risk of miss-use? You also have no option to even opt out to any collecting of that data.

Oh come on, please read the thread... that's been answered a dozen times already...

Arciris · April 2019

Invasive

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

More garbage taking up time and resources that could be deployed to FIX the real issues
like the absolutely horrendous servers, support and communication instead of providing elitists with more muck to spread!

I don't agree much with the wording but I do agree that this offers only a slight upgrade to already existing tools and will only be useful to a very small minority of people (not talking about forum people, forum people is already a minority population of people who care enough to be here), while raising legitimate concerns in a majority of other folks.

I completely agree that the way the use of resources is prioritized seems really off, when breaking free, bar swapping and even skills firing (especially ultimates) are now RNG based and need an urgent fix - just to give a few examples that are affecting a very large number of people and impacting heavily their enjoyment of the game.

Also, I don't see how this will improve Accessibility of harder content but i can definitely see how this new tool could lower that same Accessibility.

Addressing the issue of Accessibility seems to go the same direction of "upping the floor/lowering the ceiling": result in the exact opposite of the original intent.

It helps progression guilds progress. It will drastically increase accessibility.

It doesn't affect casuals in any way, shape, or form so you statement of "while raising legitimate concerns in a majority of other folks" is complete nonsense.

As I'm writing this post, the "Invasive" option collects 56% of the votes, so my statement is not non sense, it is fact.

Maybe this will help some progression guilds for Trials, I never said otherwise, but what about Vet DLC dungeons?
People are already afraid to even attempt them, even on normal, and with another tool to further intimidate them, I don't see how this will increase sales on those DLC's....
At ZOS, they are probably brainstorming to find out what kind of "not-resource-heavy-to-produce" content they could use instead of Dungeons, because obviously those are not meeting their sale expectations and if their attempt to increase Accessibility on those fail, you can be sure they will drop the production of such content: is that what you want?

Also, the main point of the argument was to question the choice of prioritizing the use of resources - however small- for the benefit of a very small percentage of the population over using those resources to help improve the gaming experience of a larger number of people.

So your statement is a fact because a few other people share your opinion? That's not what a "fact" is...

This won't have any impact on DLC dungeons. You can already see how much damage the other DPS is doing using Combat Metrics. If you're pulling 80% of team DPS and your healer is pulling 15% DPS, it means your other DPS is a problem and needs to be kicked.

People expecting to be carried through all content crying about being exposed are incredibly selfish. Learn to play the game and then enter the content and no one will give you any negative feedback. Queuing for vet DLC dungeons with mismatched gear and the light attacking your way to 5k DPS is a sure-fire way to get kicked/bad mouthed, and you have no one but yourself to blame. And again, this tool doesn't change that. CM, an existing add-on, gives you a much clearer picture of team performance already.

Your entire answer is complete nonsense and based solely on prejudice.

A lot of people are worried about their privacy because there is no "Opt Out" option enabled by default on a tool that collects their data to a Third Party website.

Can you 100% guarantee that 100% of the people using this tool are going to use it 100% respectfully and with responsibility?
No, you cannot.
Some people go through a great length of time spent and effort to harass/humiliate others.
Just to give you an example, among many, that isn't even related with combat:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/450508/our-eso-houses-are-being-vandalized-can-someone-please-help-us/p1

Since there is NO guarantee that the tool is troll proof, you cannot deny the validity and legitimacy of the concerns expressed in this thread by the majority of the voters so far, and you certainly cannot dismiss them with a very narrow minded "git gud" argument - this is not what the concerns are about.

And even if such an impossible guarantee was given, it is still one's right to decide if they want to share or not their data, without the need to justify themselves.

And yes, in a game where most of the population comes from Single Player games, you can expect a lot of them to be shy about social activities and this tool is NOT going to encourage them to take the leap, quite the opposite actually.

And since you like to tell people to L2P, I'll tell you L2R (Learn to Read): the only thing about my "statement" that is a fact is "while raising legitimate concerns in a majority of other folks", where "majority" is referring of course to the people in this thread, I'm not extrapolating the results to the entire worldwide population lol.

Why not have the same uproar with combat metrics since in 4 man content it clearer shows if someone’s DPS is clearer stronger or poorer? That’s real time as well so surely has a greater risk of miss-use? You also have no option to even opt out to any collecting of that data.

Combat Metric doesn't collect other people's personal data and exports them to a Third Party website, for one.

Combat Metric shows you the percentage of the damage[ oneself has done, not the percentage the other people did (of course this can be deducted but it's not there) and how they did it with all details, again, exporting it to a Third Party website.

Combat Metrics is fine.

You guys really can't let go of the idea that the only reason people have concerns is because "they are afraid of showing their results and being kicked of dungeons". Hint: it has nothing to do with that.

DarcyMardin · April 2019

Invasive

I’m really having a hard time caring if the tool wouldn’t provide complete data on every aspect of a fight unless everyone’s data, even anonymous data, is collected on some third party site. For guilds and raid groups who care so much about this data, no doubt they will have requirements that anyone participating in their elite groups opt in, un-anonymously. That would be fine with me, and I don’t see why a voluntary system is not fine with everyone who wants/ needs all this data.

For the rest of us, though, who are casual players who value our privacy, we should NOT have our combat data collected on a third party site, even anonymously, unless we personally opt in.

As many of us have learned to our cost, the supposedly anonymous web is a whole lot less secure than is often promised by the sites to whom we give our data.

Flares · April 2019

Useful

dazee wrote: »

Flares wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Even FFXIV logs has a way to hide your personal data.

FFLOGs was made by the same creator, the way to hide your personal data is the exact same, you have to opt out

but you can easily do so.

Its the exact same process though? You have to create an account on fflogs and claim your character through lodestone and setting it to private

Reistr_the_Unbroken · April 2019

Invasive

Flares wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

Even FFXIV logs has a way to hide your personal data.

FFLOGs was made by the same creator, the way to hide your personal data is the exact same, you have to opt out

Yeah
By jumping through a million hoops just to be anonymous.