PvP Crying Sorcs = another Mag DK Nerf, Wings... Really?

Aurielle · April 2019

siddique wrote: »

Sorcs have been nerfed to Oblivion. What more do you guys want? Should've seen what they were before all the nerfs.

Remember the original shields? The original Overload? The crystal frags?

Stop it already.

Sorcs could be limited to hitting people with the magic equivalent of pool noodles, and people will STILL call them “OP crybabies.”

Sanguinor2 · April 2019

siddique wrote: »

Sorcs have been nerfed to Oblivion. What more do you guys want? Should've seen what they were before all the nerfs.

Remember the original shields? The original Overload? The crystal frags?

Stop it already.

Actually magsorc is not nerfed to oblivion and in a very strong spot in PvP. Doesnt mean sorcs are op and neither are they the reason wings might get changed. Only sorc I would consider op is petsorc and that is only because the game´s targeting System doesnt work against them for the most part.

Also every class got changed from launch, I am Pretty confident that you would not want to have sorc from launch if dks were to get the dk from launch

.

Steelshiv · April 2019

JumpmanLane wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

sorcs aren't op. Sorcs are easily countered nowadays..

Only thing about sorc possibly considered OP is when they use a full pet build, which becomes ridiculously annoying in pvp. nothing else comes close.

agreed...seen the video of 4 petsrocs with Maw of the infernal on top in BGs...disgusting af to play against..

pets are way to hard to kill, especially if the get shields form the sorc, or healed.
furthermore the game does not support a hardtarget...which makes it impossible to focus the dmg on the sorc, since youll land skill son the pets or ppl standing inbetween...but the hardtarget problem is a whole other problem, which also is need of improvement in PVE, since hitboxes from bosses can collide / move into each other, making taunting a 50/50 sometimes, which is unnessecary.

Other day ran into a ball Zerg NOTHING but pet sorcs. I was like where did all these NPcs come from. It was a bunch of pets.

Had to kite around all these pets to kill anyone. Funny thing was these sorcs didn’t run after taking a little damage (like they normally would). They stuck around and died.

I guess they were just dorking around. It only seemed viable when pugs joined them.

Lol it was a joke

siddique · April 2019

My main used to be a DK back in the day on PC. Now I main a petsorc on PS4. I think both these classes are pretty strong in their own right.

It could be a l2p issue. :P

Anyron · April 2019

Noone likes nerfs. But sometimes its needed. I think without reflect, wings still can be good

But its hard to explain how frustrating it is when 80% of all your ranged skills is "dodged" or "missed". ( someone counted it before but i don't know where it is -or maybe it was on pts?) on top of that even reflected. There is too many ranged counters that can completely negate ranged damage (d-roll, cloak, wings, shimmering) and it isnt only because of this skills but because projectile speed is too slow.
Also, i don't know how you guys, but when i see "reflected" on my target i completely stop to focusing it and i move to find another target.

But in 1v1 its hard to fight dk because of wings. To absorb all his damage, plus your own damage is impossible. And using only skills like force pulse and Daedric curse is stupid because every dk should be able to overheal it easily.

SirMewser · April 2019

Lol, sorcs cry about what exactly, I can only think of C-frag being reflectable which doesn't mean much when I can just ward the reflection. It's not like I get CCed by my own frag anymore.

So are they QQing about light attacks?

Other classes have more projectiles in their tool kit. There is no comprehension to where this notion derived from.

It's just a blame game for some alarmist hosenscheißer.

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

When I'm not stuck using clench as a spammable because ZoS doesn't want to allow other classes to have good CC or a good spammable and you can't mitigate 100% of half of my damage, you can cry. (I'm not a sorc btw)

Sanguinor2 · April 2019

siddique wrote: »

My main used to be a DK back in the day on PC. Now I main a petsorc on PS4. I think both these classes are pretty strong in their own right.

It could be a l2p issue. :P

Few Hours ago sorc was nerfed into oblivion, I must´ve missed the patch today :P

Anyron · April 2019

SirMewser wrote: »

Lol, sorcs cry about what exactly, I can only think of C-frag being reflectable which doesn't mean much when I can just ward the reflection. It's not like I get CCed by my own frag anymore.

So are they QQing about light attacks?

Other classes have more projectiles in their tool kit. There is no comprehension to where this notion derived from.

It's just a blame game for some alarmist hosenscheißer.

If you have on your primary bar frags, force pulse, shield, reach and daedric curse there isnt much you can use to damage DK.
Reach +light attack ( RIP CC and anim. cancelling - block cancelling isnt good idea on mag char) is gone and your left with just force pulse and curse and that isnt something to danger DK alone

My non-cp curse damage is 4-6k (6k= crt) over 6 seconds and force pulse 800-1400), that means if you can spam force pulse without cancelling 1x per 2 seconds its 2100dps (if all hits were crt) and curse is 1k dps(crt)

If you can manage basic math (no offense intended) you can see your damage is 3,1k dps(crt) which can hardly be danger to any player with any healing on bar presented.

Frags, curse, mages fury (execute), minefield,shattering prison and lightning flood are sorcerers skills with damage on it. Only these.
Frags - reflectable
Curse - damage per 6seconds
Mages fury - only useful when enemy is below 20%hp
Minefield - as i know only few sorcerers have this in cyro
Shattering prison - damage only when full duration of skill is applied (1 roll or wings and ur immune)
Lightning flood - god i hope noone is stupid enought to use it in pvp

On other hand if you have to deal with DKs own damage and then you get your own frags back for 5-8k i can be painful- or your reach with CC+damage+dot.
Also 4 projectiles can be easy when ur attacked by bunch of players but 4 projectiles in 1v1? Thats impossible to get through
Wings without reflect are ok but with it its too good

siddique · April 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

My main used to be a DK back in the day on PC. Now I main a petsorc on PS4. I think both these classes are pretty strong in their own right.

It could be a l2p issue. :P

Few Hours ago sorc was nerfed into oblivion, I must´ve missed the patch today :P

Haha doesn't mean they haven't been nerfed into Oblivion. You could way what I meant was in the right hands they are still pretty strong.

Gilvoth · April 2019

you cant take away dragonights wings reflect, it removes their ability to be what they are "a Tank" class

same with sorcs, they need shields

same with heals on templars

same with nightblades invis.

you cant keep nerfing this stuff.
its destroying the game.

Anyron · April 2019

Gilvoth wrote: »

you cant take away dragonights wings reflect, it removes their ability to be what they are "a Tank" class

same with sorcs, they need shields

same with heals on templars

same with nightblades invis.

you cant keep nerfing this stuff.
its destroying the game.

"tank"class only when facing ranged, but what they have for melee?
Isnt better to give dk something what can help fight with both, but remove wings?

merevie · April 2019

Main is magic nightblade.
Sorcs are fav snack.
Do not comprehend why any blade would die to a snack.

DKs are a problem.
Not because of wings -those flapping moves are very easy to see. Big. Wings. Move.
Why die to those?

They are a problem because they land on you, bash open your skull, and regen through bleeds and then stick a standard through your heart.

Wings are part of the magic of a DK that protects them from SORC ZERGS. Zergs are a fact of life and DKs can't manage them without wings. Not fair - let them keep their wings for zerglings. Blades can disappear -the big orange glowing guy can't.

Pact run two full 24 man zergs on weekends. Recently I counted 90 of them at Ales. If DKs lose wings, then they need some kind of immunity to ranged zergs. DKs are valuable parts of small teams and we all lose if they delete their toons.

Anyron · April 2019

merevie wrote: »

Main is magic nightblade.
Sorcs are fav snack.
Do not comprehend why any blade would die to a snack.

DKs are a problem.
Not because of wings -those flapping moves are very easy to see. Big. Wings. Move.
Why die to those?

They are a problem because they land on you, bash open your skull, and regen through bleeds and then stick a standard through your heart.

Wings are part of the magic of a DK that protects them from SORC ZERGS. Zergs are a fact of life and DKs can't manage them without wings. Not fair - let them keep their wings for zerglings. Blades can disappear -the big orange glowing guy can't.

Pact run two full 24 man zergs on weekends. Recently I counted 90 of them at Ales. If DKs lose wings, then they need some kind of immunity to ranged zergs. DKs are valuable parts of small teams and we all lose if they delete their toons.

Eh. Okay
Are you sure you know how wings works? Four. Projectiles. Four.
Certainly it isnt issue when facing zerg- for that zerg

About cyro - i saw how 90 dc stormed our (EP) scroll gates at 9:00 last thursday(Gmt+0) . Blame one side for zerging because why not. and when "we" have zergs its okay too ofc

JumpmanLane · April 2019

Steelshiv wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

sorcs aren't op. Sorcs are easily countered nowadays..

Only thing about sorc possibly considered OP is when they use a full pet build, which becomes ridiculously annoying in pvp. nothing else comes close.

agreed...seen the video of 4 petsrocs with Maw of the infernal on top in BGs...disgusting af to play against..

pets are way to hard to kill, especially if the get shields form the sorc, or healed.
furthermore the game does not support a hardtarget...which makes it impossible to focus the dmg on the sorc, since youll land skill son the pets or ppl standing inbetween...but the hardtarget problem is a whole other problem, which also is need of improvement in PVE, since hitboxes from bosses can collide / move into each other, making taunting a 50/50 sometimes, which is unnessecary.

Other day ran into a ball Zerg NOTHING but pet sorcs. I was like where did all these NPcs come from. It was a bunch of pets.

Had to kite around all these pets to kill anyone. Funny thing was these sorcs didn’t run after taking a little damage (like they normally would). They stuck around and died.

I guess they were just dorking around. It only seemed viable when pugs joined them.

Lol it was a joke

Ep zone THOUGHT it was a joke until pugs started running with that sorc pet ball Zerg then THAT was hard to kill lol.

Anyron · April 2019

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Steelshiv wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

sorcs aren't op. Sorcs are easily countered nowadays..

Only thing about sorc possibly considered OP is when they use a full pet build, which becomes ridiculously annoying in pvp. nothing else comes close.

agreed...seen the video of 4 petsrocs with Maw of the infernal on top in BGs...disgusting af to play against..

pets are way to hard to kill, especially if the get shields form the sorc, or healed.
furthermore the game does not support a hardtarget...which makes it impossible to focus the dmg on the sorc, since youll land skill son the pets or ppl standing inbetween...but the hardtarget problem is a whole other problem, which also is need of improvement in PVE, since hitboxes from bosses can collide / move into each other, making taunting a 50/50 sometimes, which is unnessecary.

Other day ran into a ball Zerg NOTHING but pet sorcs. I was like where did all these NPcs come from. It was a bunch of pets.

Had to kite around all these pets to kill anyone. Funny thing was these sorcs didn’t run after taking a little damage (like they normally would). They stuck around and died.

I guess they were just dorking around. It only seemed viable when pugs joined them.

Lol it was a joke

Ep zone THOUGHT it was a joke until pugs started running with that sorc pet ball Zerg then THAT was hard to kill lol.

You took our streak
You took our shields
Sorcerer is now half-working class because of whiners

So go on, keep crying.
We can adapt, as we always did

WillhelmBlack · April 2019

I'm farming Zaan then gonna craft me some Sloads and Torugs. Make them cry harder.

StormeReigns · April 2019

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I'm farming Zaan then gonna craft me some Sloads and Torugs. Make them cry harder.

Mmm. Combined with Inevitable Detonation spam and Haunting curse. Need an Ark for the incoming flood.

thankyourat · April 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I just use armor master/spinner/willpower/ skoria. For BGs I switch out armor master for BTB. I actually use skoria because it can't be reflected. you would have to completely redesign magblade as a class to give them a fighting chance against wings. It would need a few hard hitting abilities like curse that goes past reflect to actually be competitive against a mag DK but if cripple and strife was not reflectable it might be able to manage. at this point though wings would only reflect clench, snipe, frags, and spectral bow making it an almost useles ability besides the snare removal. The 50% reduction change allows it to still be really strong against range builds but it also gives range builds the opportunity to try to actually push through wings. It seems like a very balanced change. It reminds me of the major evasion change. The buff is not as strong as it use to be but it's still a very strong buff against aoe builds.

Its not that I think that the new wings will be weak, it depends on quite a few factors, largely what will be considered ranged for them, they could actually be a big buff if they reduce the Damage of everything ranged by 50% which I doubt for obvious reasons but you get it.
I dont want to loose the reflect because its one of the very few Things left of the dks of old and I would love to find away that allows wings to Keep reflect, stay relevant and not place any class in a Situation like current magblades.

Offtopic: You regulary hit 35k Damage projectiles on a warden with shimmering Shield running with the 50% battle spirit Damage reduction? Because thats what you Need Minimum since About every warden will have that Health or more with minor toughness. If the cap gets reduced by battle spirit you still Need to hit for 17.5k with a single projectile. Saying that because there has been other People thinking the Damage cap of shimmer is a counterplay method but it really is not except for a snipe gank with asylum bow.

It's going to be hard to find away to keep the reflect on wings and still allow magblade to be viable. If swallow soul and cripple are now non reflectable I think wings with the reflect would be kind of useless especially if the snipe nerf finally make snipe a balanced ability. If both skills aren't allowed to go through wings magblade would never be able to kill a dk that recognizes all it has to do is keep up wings. The only thing I've heard before is make wings reflect projectiles casted further than say 18m but allow anything casted closer to bypass wings. But I actually think that would be weaker than the 50% damage reduction.

As for damage against a Warden you can hit around 4k swallow soul, 4k flame clench, 1k light attack, 2k weapon proc and around a 12k bow against a magden in light armor. Stamdens in heavy I don't hit as hard but they usually won't keep up as high uptime on shimmering. If it's a tankden than I'll probably never be able to kill them with their combination of buffs and tree ult. The main reason shimmering is alot easier to deal with is because you can still be offensive. When a dk cast wings you have to stop everything you are doing and basically go 100% defensive

JumpmanLane · April 2019

I heard y’all recorded that. I’m Crush Lane, the one standing over your dead bodies much of the time.

Y’all joking. Crushy came to get down!

Anyron wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Steelshiv wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

sorcs aren't op. Sorcs are easily countered nowadays..

Only thing about sorc possibly considered OP is when they use a full pet build, which becomes ridiculously annoying in pvp. nothing else comes close.

agreed...seen the video of 4 petsrocs with Maw of the infernal on top in BGs...disgusting af to play against..

pets are way to hard to kill, especially if the get shields form the sorc, or healed.
furthermore the game does not support a hardtarget...which makes it impossible to focus the dmg on the sorc, since youll land skill son the pets or ppl standing inbetween...but the hardtarget problem is a whole other problem, which also is need of improvement in PVE, since hitboxes from bosses can collide / move into each other, making taunting a 50/50 sometimes, which is unnessecary.

Other day ran into a ball Zerg NOTHING but pet sorcs. I was like where did all these NPcs come from. It was a bunch of pets.

Had to kite around all these pets to kill anyone. Funny thing was these sorcs didn’t run after taking a little damage (like they normally would). They stuck around and died.

I guess they were just dorking around. It only seemed viable when pugs joined them.

Lol it was a joke

Ep zone THOUGHT it was a joke until pugs started running with that sorc pet ball Zerg then THAT was hard to kill lol.

You took our streak
You took our shields
Sorcerer is now half-working class because of whiners

So go on, keep crying.
We can adapt, as we always did

Adapt to that! Some folks thought y’all were practicing rezzing out and stuff lol.

As an aside, I killed 300+ people that day, half were KB’s on a MagDk with no execute. Just whips and leap. Lol.

ccfeeling · April 2019

Its time to punch DK

xeNNNNN · April 2019

vamp_emily wrote: »

hmmm.. you think NBs are the biggest babies? L2Read the forum.

NBs do to much damage..... waaaaa!
Nerf cloak..... waaaaa!
NBs is the only class that can reset a fight when they want... waaaa!
Nerf Snipe because NBs use it.... waaaaaa!
Nerf ambush....... Waaaaaaa!
Nerf Grim Focus... Waaaa!
NBs have all the best skills..... waaaaa!
NBs are the most salty players.... waaa!
I hate NBs .... waaa!

I'm sure I missed a few. I've never seen a NB cry as much as other classes.

this is pretty accurate sadly.

though honestly snipe should be gone from the game, not because of nightblades but because its so mindless for the amount of damage it does when spammed with ani cancels and then on top of that the lag which basically desyncs everything and makes all 3 snipe shots register at the same time instantly killing you.

ArchMikem · April 2019

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Why do nb make go invisible in combat ? With dots on them ?

Mine certainly never does. For some reason even sneezing in my direction breaks stealth.

siddique · April 2019

I have long been propagating a 2 second cast time on a NBs cloak. That'd be fun.

SirMewser · April 2019

Anyron wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

Lol, sorcs cry about what exactly, I can only think of C-frag being reflectable which doesn't mean much when I can just ward the reflection. It's not like I get CCed by my own frag anymore.

So are they QQing about light attacks?

Other classes have more projectiles in their tool kit. There is no comprehension to where this notion derived from.

It's just a blame game for some alarmist hosenscheißer.

If you have on your primary bar frags, force pulse, shield, reach and daedric curse there isnt much you can use to damage DK.
Reach +light attack ( RIP CC and anim. cancelling - block cancelling isnt good idea on mag char) is gone and your left with just force pulse and curse and that isnt something to danger DK alone

My non-cp curse damage is 4-6k (6k= crt) over 6 seconds and force pulse 800-1400), that means if you can spam force pulse without cancelling 1x per 2 seconds its 2100dps (if all hits were crt) and curse is 1k dps(crt)

If you can manage basic math (no offense intended) you can see your damage is 3,1k dps(crt) which can hardly be danger to any player with any healing on bar presented.

Frags, curse, mages fury (execute), minefield,shattering prison and lightning flood are sorcerers skills with damage on it. Only these.
Frags - reflectable
Curse - damage per 6seconds
Mages fury - only useful when enemy is below 20%hp
Minefield - as i know only few sorcerers have this in cyro
Shattering prison - damage only when full duration of skill is applied (1 roll or wings and ur immune)
Lightning flood - god i hope noone is stupid enought to use it in pvp

On other hand if you have to deal with DKs own damage and then you get your own frags back for 5-8k i can be painful- or your reach with CC+damage+dot.
Also 4 projectiles can be easy when ur attacked by bunch of players but 4 projectiles in 1v1? Thats impossible to get through
Wings without reflect are ok but with it its too good

Actually no, I don't have; frags, force pulse, shield, reach and daedric curse all on my primary bar because they aren't my bars.
Also there isn't much you can do with those in general.

Your non-cp curse damage is 4-6k you say, that's awesome, thanks for the share!
So sorry to hear about your struggles, it must be the game...

Yes please explain the math, I'm stupid.
...Thanks for explaining it to me, it suddenly feels so relevant.

Wow, so Sorcerer damage skills are; frags, curse, mages fury (oh and is an execute? Cool!), minefield, shattering prison, and lightning flood.

Frags - reflectable?! WAAAAT?

SirMewser wrote: »

[...] C-frag being reflectable which doesn't mean much when I can just ward the reflection. It's not like I get CCed by my own frag anymore.[...]

Would have never known!

Yes, curse tends to have a 6 second delay.
Yep, Mages Fury does say that. I find it quite useful. (BGs anyone?

) You don't think so though, so maybe the devs should remove it.
Minefields, no I'm not in cyrodiil, only sometimes.
Shattering Prison, ya, it was changed to so for quite abusive reasons.
Lightning Flood, people being stupid for using it in PVP? So is changing DK wings to not reflect also stupid for PVE.

I also think having; frags, force pulse, shield, reach, and daedric curse all on your primary bar stupid too.

It's not like you've intentionally left; volatile familiar, suppression field, overload, tormentor, prey, storm atronach, hurricane, and streak out of your list.
Oh but I would't know, so I guess they aren't apart of the 'sorcerers skills with damage on it'.

Yeah, I'm for nerfing DK wings.
Wings without reflect are ok.

By the way, who are you speaking to?
It's okay if you quoted the wrong person.

Disclaimer:
I main a mSorc, any nerfs to others are a buff to me.
DKs can delete their toons or uninstall the game for all I care at this point.
I'm too tired to be considerate of others anymore as of this time.

My opinion:
The proposed change to DKs wings is a bad one.
Just because you don't like that, doesn't mean you can f-on. Get off my chub.

Gilvoth · April 2019

xeNNNNN wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

hmmm.. you think NBs are the biggest babies? L2Read the forum.

NBs do to much damage..... waaaaa!
Nerf cloak..... waaaaa!
NBs is the only class that can reset a fight when they want... waaaa!
Nerf Snipe because NBs use it.... waaaaaa!
Nerf ambush....... Waaaaaaa!
Nerf Grim Focus... Waaaa!
NBs have all the best skills..... waaaaa!
NBs are the most salty players.... waaa!
I hate NBs .... waaa!

I'm sure I missed a few. I've never seen a NB cry as much as other classes.

this is pretty accurate sadly.

though honestly snipe should be gone from the game, not because of nightblades but because its so mindless for the amount of damage it does when spammed with ani cancels and then on top of that the lag which basically desyncs everything and makes all 3 snipe shots register at the same time instantly killing you.

you can say that about any skill.
snipe belongs to the bow and us archer playstyle.
saying it needs deleted from the game is horrible, and unnecessary.
i could look at your build or skills you use and pick out one and say it needs deleted from the game, but im not going to do that because thats foolishness, and so is same saying that about snipe, it is just like all the other skills in eso, they are used to kill players in pvp, they have to be able to do damage.
you guys keep on asking for nerfs unecessary.

Gilvoth · April 2019

siddique wrote: »

I have long been propagating a 2 second cast time on a NBs cloak. That'd be fun.

thats not a balance request, thats just mean to us that depend on cloak as part of playstyle as well as defense.
cloak does not need nerfed.

Lylith · April 2019

Gilvoth wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

I have long been propagating a 2 second cast time on a NBs cloak. That'd be fun.

thats not a balance request, thats just mean to us that depend on cloak as part of playstyle as well as defense.
cloak does not need nerfed.

there's been a host of skills unnecessarily nerfed in the last five years, including cloak.

don't imagine for a minute it can't happen again.

this is eso.

Gilvoth · April 2019

Anyron wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Steelshiv wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

sorcs aren't op. Sorcs are easily countered nowadays..

Only thing about sorc possibly considered OP is when they use a full pet build, which becomes ridiculously annoying in pvp. nothing else comes close.

agreed...seen the video of 4 petsrocs with Maw of the infernal on top in BGs...disgusting af to play against..

pets are way to hard to kill, especially if the get shields form the sorc, or healed.
furthermore the game does not support a hardtarget...which makes it impossible to focus the dmg on the sorc, since youll land skill son the pets or ppl standing inbetween...but the hardtarget problem is a whole other problem, which also is need of improvement in PVE, since hitboxes from bosses can collide / move into each other, making taunting a 50/50 sometimes, which is unnessecary.

Other day ran into a ball Zerg NOTHING but pet sorcs. I was like where did all these NPcs come from. It was a bunch of pets.

Had to kite around all these pets to kill anyone. Funny thing was these sorcs didn’t run after taking a little damage (like they normally would). They stuck around and died.

I guess they were just dorking around. It only seemed viable when pugs joined them.

Lol it was a joke

Ep zone THOUGHT it was a joke until pugs started running with that sorc pet ball Zerg then THAT was hard to kill lol.

You took our streak
You took our shields
Sorcerer is now half-working class because of whiners

that is simply not true, the developers made the changes to all the skills in eso.
not us players.

StormeReigns · April 2019

Honestly, just keep the reflect effect.
Just remove the Immunity to snares and immobilization from Reflective plates and in return, increase the duration to 10 seconds (still only reflect 4 projectiles)

With Dragon Fire Scale, increase the amount projectiles reflected from 4 to 8, reduced the reflected damage from 35% to 13%, and have decreased cost to use.