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Please don't clip my Wings!
-
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”6 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The best idea I've heard is to keep the current four projectile reflect at long distances, but projectiles cast at melee range (say, ten to fifteen meters?) go through. That solves the problem of 41 meter Snipes, and magblade being completely countered.
You still have great heals, whip, and fossilize to deal with anyone that close.
Sounds fair to meSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok, worst news I have ever read when I heard that my DK's Wings is being nerfed into uselessness.
As a stamDK, this is literally my number 1 survival tool against ranged spam, which if the devs had even spent one minute in a BG, would know the game is saturated with.
This would make us just as vulnerable as Templars, without any of the utility.
I really don't understand how having a survival tool for stamDK is such a bad idea. Did I kill too many devs running tryhard magblade builds in BGs?
Honestly, Wardens have ice shield, NBs can teleport out or stealth out. Now I'll just be a sitting duck.
How about making the reflect morph a stamina morph? That way it can't be spammed by magDK, which I assume where the problem lay.
Yours truly,
A salty stamDK
P.S.
Seriously, don't take my Wings, I'll love you forever and ever.
except this is a buff as the number of enemies increase...
No
only reduces the dmg of (some) ranged enemies, you can still be wrecked by any melee build. For what I understand, beams and AoE ranged skills still do dmg
It still is a buff as the enemies increase, he’s not wrong. If you have 3-4 ranged builds pinging projectiles at you, the reflect barely lasts a second. Unless you can keep spamming it on GCD. If you can’t, new Scales is better.
Not all ranged attacks are projectiles. It takes a half a second to swap from snipe to bombard or from strife to force pulse. People learns how to face an enemy. The differece is that they will careless use light attacks, when now they have to put attention to what they are doing.
Mate, really no offence meant but you’re talking nonsense.
First off, you are confusing projectiles with reflectable attacks. Reflectables are a subset of projectiles. Force Pulse, Cliffracer... they are still projectiles just not reflectable. How do I know? They get absorbed by Shimmering Shield. If new Scales reduces the damage of projectiles it means taking less dmg from them too.
Also, Bombard is not the answer to not being able to land a snipe. It has neither the range nor the damage. And while Force Pulse ignores reflects, somehow Flame Reach is still far far more common. Not everyone builds to counter a magDK and they shouldn’t anyway. That’s the reality.
6” of 50% less dmg from projectiles will lead to more mitigation than 1” of reflects which is what happens right now when you get pelted by ranged attacks and can’t afford spam wings. The statement I made was correct given those parameters. I don’t know why that’s the hill you choose to die on.
Sorry, but pulse is not classified as a projectile, but as a beam. While racer, according to ZoS cannot be reflected because wings, and I think I quoting correctly, "only reflects projectiles and not things that are alive". If you make them both being mitigated by new wings, then you are nerfing them and that's not a good solution. Why should a nerf to a specific skill in some area implies a nerf to other skills?
Regarding bombard or acid spray, just try it against a DK. Off course it has some risks related to range, but overall it's a pretty decent counter to wings considering it applies a snare (while bombard can trigger a root). The thing is that it is easier to spam snipe from 41 mts.
Regarding reach, the only thing that prevents mindless spamming of flame, shock and frost reach are wings. After wings are nerfed the complaints will be against that skill that will not have any counter play. So we will move from a skill with "few" counterplay, to several skills with just 2 counters (spell wall and Posture in the S/B line)Edited by Xvorg on April 9, 2019 9:48PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
satanio✭✭✭✭DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
1 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭
But this statement is false. You can adjust your playstyle... the same way I have to slot Expert Hunter or additional AoEs to fight nbs.cpuScientist wrote: »A full counter to a certain playstyle is just not healthy when their are no other counters like it in game.
But who am I to speak, not doing PvP anymore. PvE is my haven.
I main sorc not Nightblade. And cloak is annoying but it is not a full counter to anything. When one cloaks I do not get my own skills thrown back at me unable to mount any kind of offense whatsoever. I just miss. A magBlade however cannot do anything against wings PERIOD FULL STOP. First off their dot, spam, burst and execute are all reflectable. So say you use force pulse ok you can now spam a skill. Can't light weave it cause that's reflected aswell. Aaaaaaaaaaaand what? Cloak also needs to be reworked but at least there are a ton of counters. And if say slotting inner light made it so they could go through wings and there was a potion and some kind of debuff or any of the other cloak counters applied to wings then you.
Warden absorb also needs to be looked at Imho it Should not refund any Magicka, the protection and major heroism is enough. Reduce the cost a tiny fraction and take that mag return out. But it does not full counter a magBlade if just makes it really annoying but that magBlade still has something some control some dot pressure. And if they use force pulse they can break all three in one gcd.
And the sword and board skill that reflects one. LoL go ahead and waste your Stam spamming that have fun LOL...
Wings is a crutch and while I would have preferred the change to be something more along the lines it reflects if they are 12-15 meters away and reduced damage or just nothing within that range. This is at least something. Now ZOS can actually help DK's survivability outside of wings which will lead to them better matching up against some Stam builds.2 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭For those Wondering why touch is more popular that force pulse, it's because bar space is so tight and lich is not a bad option on most builds opening up the weapon slot front bar for master destro. And this is because ZOS saw fit to remove the stun from frag soooooo gotta slot master staff, as cage is now just useless against most Stam. It was broken and needed a change but this one is just bad, since it doesn't do anything extra. If they gave it back the damage on break it would be able to live on my slot but as of now touch works against everyone except DK. And against DK I have some crap cause I can rely on atro and matriarch open world or BG to help with them. Along with curse and in duels if they winging I just don't fight them unless it's a friend.1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
LMAO, I have a stamDK, @satanio . I have no trouble gapclosing to ranged players or dealing with ranged players in general without having to spam wings constantly. I play every class equally, actually. I only consider my magsorc my “main” because I’ve gotten most of my PVE achievements on that character.
When you play every class, it’s easier to see what skills are objectively overperforming. Wings is one of those skills. If you disagree, then you are biased and need to play other classes more often to realize that. Simple.4 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.3 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.
Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades. It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities. There's a plethora of melee abilities that MagBlades have... including a very broken Mass Hysteria- which allows time to burst down a DK. Also, how well does your DK gap-closer (22m range) work against ranged attackers in PVP... considering that they can hit you from 28-40+ meters? I'm thinking that you main a NB and have a DK that's collecting dust on the shelf.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren4 -
Trancestor✭✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.
Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades. It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities. There's a plethora of melee abilities that MagBlades have... including a very broken Mass Hysteria- which allows time to burst down a DK. Also, how well does your DK gap-closer (22m range) work against ranged attackers in PVP... considering that they can hit you from 28-40+ meters? I'm thinking that you main a NB and have a DK that's collecting dust on the shelf.
How does current wings help with gapclosing? Why does no other melee class complain about gaplosing? Have you ever played a ranged mag class and dueled a wing spamming magdk? Have you ever even played a class other than magdk?3 -
satanio✭✭✭✭When you play every class, it’s easier to see what skills are objectively overperforming. Wings is one of those skills.
l2p. simple.1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I will lay down my Point of view once again. Do with it what you will.
Imo wings is working as intended against most builds, the only real outliers are magblade and reachspam sorc, so saying that wings is objectively broken doesnt seem Right to me when against most classes it counters some but not all Options (which seems to be working as intended) and anything except a magblade has ways around wings.
I also know that the 50% ranged Damage reduction will still be strong, alltho what many People are saying About not needing to spam wings anymore especially in 1vX/outnumbered is wrong. Unless mobility drastically changes with elsweyr we will still Need to cast wings every 2 seconds so that we are not perma snared/rooted, if we dont do that we might just aswell swap to mistform in Terms of mobility in 1vX/outnumbered.
The reason why I am not the biggest fan of this rumored Change is that another dk skill being changed to loose an iconic function is not something very appealing for me, especially if you consider the fact that there is exactly 1 subclass that gets hardcountered by it without having Options to Play around it.
I would much rather wings Keep their reflect but get changed in a way that allows counterplay for ranged like the multiple times mentioned idea of reflecting attacks from a certain distance but if you are Closer you can avoid the reflect. Another Option to make it less opressing in a 1v1 Situation would be to give wings a 2 projectiles per Player cap, it would buff wings in 1vX/outnumbered but allow for more Control in a 1v1 for the ranged build or at the very least make wings very expensive to Keep up 100%.
And my favourite Option, Keep wings as is but Change magblade to no longer get hardcountered by anything that counters range, undo some of the nerfs (that only happened because of pve overperformance anyway), make melee magblade stronger, let some abilities go through reflect (and Absorption too perhaps).
Or at the very least if this Change goes through bug fix chains so our gap Closer stops being a gamble and starts working as intended.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.
Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades. It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities. There's a plethora of melee abilities that MagBlades have... including a very broken Mass Hysteria- which allows time to burst down a DK. Also, how well does your DK gap-closer (22m range) work against ranged attackers in PVP... considering that they can hit you from 28-40+ meters? I'm thinking that you main a NB and have a DK that's collecting dust on the shelf.
Plethora of melee abilities? Concealed Weapon and what? Ults?
Aye fam. I'll spam Concealed in melee range against a class with 3 targeted dots and snare removal, while I have no means of removing the (actual) plethora of snares and roots that DK does puts on me.
Statements like that are a quick way to lose credibility. Play more classes.
EDIT:
"Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades".
"It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities"
Mate, that's what a ranged magblade is.
Edited by Maulkin on April 10, 2019 9:44AMEU | PC | AD6 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Regarding reach, the only thing that prevents mindless spamming of flame, shock and frost reach are wings. After wings are nerfed the complaints will be against that skill that will not have any counter play. So we will move from a skill with "few" counterplay, to several skills with just 2 counters (spell wall and Posture in the S/B line)
So block, dodge and 50% dmg reduction are not considered counters now?2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
So your only version of balance is to be able to reflect everything back at their faces? Yeah, i do not think that balance means what you think it means.3 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Plethora of melee abilities? Concealed Weapon and what? Ults?
Aye fam. I'll spam Concealed in melee range against a class with 3 targeted dots and snare removal, while I have no means of removing the (actual) plethora of snares and roots that DK does puts on me.
Statements like that are a quick way to lose credibility. Play more classes.
EDIT:
"Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades".
"It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities"
Mate, that's what a ranged magblade is.
Actually its not even a choice for melee magblade to Slot ranged abilities, they have to to get mobility (cripple), burst (bow), execute (impale). Which is why imo magblade Needs updates to its avaiable Tools to make melee more appealing (and Maybe not make it rely on ranged, reflectable abilities?) and give ranged Options to fight against ranged counters.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭Era of reflects is over. Bye-bye!Boadrig, EU PC
Very Balanced
Battleground Beta Testers
Cite's Legacy
Colosseum
Imperial City frequenter
Imperial City feedback and suggestions1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Already did that, my dude. L2P more than magDK.Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.
Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades. It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities. There's a plethora of melee abilities that MagBlades have... including a very broken Mass Hysteria- which allows time to burst down a DK. Also, how well does your DK gap-closer (22m range) work against ranged attackers in PVP... considering that they can hit you from 28-40+ meters? I'm thinking that you main a NB and have a DK that's collecting dust on the shelf.
Plethora of melee abilities? Concealed Weapon and what? Ults?
Aye fam. I'll spam Concealed in melee range against a class with 3 targeted dots and snare removal, while I have no means of removing the (actual) plethora of snares and roots that DK does puts on me.
Statements like that are a quick way to lose credibility. Play more classes.
EDIT:
"Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades".
"It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities"
Mate, that's what a ranged magblade is.
Right? These guys are delusional. They’re basically saying “don’t play ranged magblade.” Is it really so much to ask for SOME ranged NB abilities to go through wings? I don’t get my curses or Endless Fury reflected back at me. Why should magNB have 100% of their ranged class abilities reflected back at them? “Play melee” is not an option until melee magblades get a significant buff.Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.
Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades. It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities. There's a plethora of melee abilities that MagBlades have... including a very broken Mass Hysteria- which allows time to burst down a DK. Also, how well does your DK gap-closer (22m range) work against ranged attackers in PVP... considering that they can hit you from 28-40+ meters? I'm thinking that you main a NB and have a DK that's collecting dust on the shelf.
Again, I don’t “main” anything. I’ve done most content with my sorc, and loosely consider it my main, but these days I’m playing all five of my characters equally. I have an ulti-gen stamDK that can basically leap on demand. Most ranged characters (besides Snipetards) aren’t engaging you from max range. When I don’t have Take Flight up (which is rare), I use Shielded Assault to gap close and stun the ranged character, hit them with Ransack and Heroic Slash (usually dotting them up with poison in the process), then bar swap and finish them off with a single cast of claws to dot them up even more and executioner spam. All without seeing my health bar budge one bit. Easy peasy.
If ranged mNBs can’t cast their abilities against DKs (which are now the most popular class in BGs, behind stamdens), you’ll see more troll NB healers in BGs. Which would you prefer? Having to deal with Cripple and Impale or having to deal with a Healthy Offering spamming mNB who trolls your every attempt to whip a CC-locked character to death?0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.
Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades. It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities. There's a plethora of melee abilities that MagBlades have... including a very broken Mass Hysteria- which allows time to burst down a DK. Also, how well does your DK gap-closer (22m range) work against ranged attackers in PVP... considering that they can hit you from 28-40+ meters? I'm thinking that you main a NB and have a DK that's collecting dust on the shelf.
Melee magblade hasn't been viable in a few patches now. We're not stamblades FFS, and you're not going to kill a DK with concealed weapon. You need ranged abilities to move, heal, burst, and execute .
Have you ever played magblade? I'm guessing you haven't based on what you just said.Edited by Minalan on April 10, 2019 2:04PM1 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭i really do love how ppl consider that "only magblades ares countered by wings" while wings also counters a very large part of ranged CC because of the light part of direct dmg they deal, or some set procs and so on.
beside, if it only was a ranged dmg "umbrella" it would be fine, just like Warden's skill, but it is doing dmg and cc back to the oponent. + all the calculation needed to interact correctly.
be happy DKs, you wont autokill yourself under eclipse anymore, and this is something you should be glad for!
ps: cut wings for the sake of latency!1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My Sorc is happy, my DK is sad. That said, I dont think this will end up being that much of a nerf, but only time will tell.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i really do love how ppl consider that "only magblades ares countered by wings" while wings also counters a very large part of ranged CC because of the light part of direct dmg they deal, or some set procs and so on.
beside, if it only was a ranged dmg "umbrella" it would be fine, just like Warden's skill, but it is doing dmg and cc back to the oponent. + all the calculation needed to interact correctly.
be happy DKs, you wont autokill yourself under eclipse anymore, and this is something you should be glad for!
ps: cut wings for the sake of latency!
First off all demanding wings be cut to reduce latency is both hillarious and dumb af, there surely are much bigger offenders than wings to lag (like idk the Servers not being sufficient???????).
Second many People (not all) did not say that magblades are the only ones countered by wings but that magblades are the only ones countered by wings without Options around them which is a Pretty significant difference as you will hopefully notice.
Third this ranged cc and proc sets you Mention only get countered by wings because ZOS deemed them to be projectiles not because they have a Damage Portion attached to them, so yeah just saying that wings dont work like that.
Fourth the bigger offender towards eclipse induced seppuku is spiked armor and Morphs and not wings.
Closing remark: If wings get changed I would welcome them getting some properties of shimmering Shield like having a Damage cap for "counterplay" which cannot be reached by any means that is not hacking, Major heroism and 60% cost restore for doing what it is supposed to do
. Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »DreadDaedroth wrote: »
Translation:
“I main a DK and am too biased to understand why a percent-based damage reduction is more balanced than completely shrugging off ranged projectiles AND turning them back on my enemies.”
You yourself are biased as hell. Go and try som sDK with wings. Youre pretending like its some omnipotent skill that ultimately oneshots everyone.
If you disagree, then you are biased
Sure, we're all biased for saying magicka shuffle sounds really boring compared to what wings do right now.
Okay. So if you think the proposed wings rework is “boring”, would you prefer it if there were stricter parameters for what counts as a “projectile”, so that magNBs and (to a lesser extent) magsorcs can actually deal SOME damage to DKs with their class skills, and not have to rely on comparatively weaker weapon skills like Force Pulse?
@Aurielle
I don't see you advocating for DKs to have more ranged abilities or executes or better mobility to counter MagBlades and MagSorcs once wings gets clipped. It's almost as if you don't really care about "balance" and you just want easier kills on DKs.
I’m not advocating for more ranged abilities because I personally manage just fine with gap-closing to ranged players on my own DK. Could DKs do with a class execute? Sure! That has NOTHING to do with the way that wings completely shuts down magNBs, though, and is something separate entirely. If you don’t want wings altered, then more skills need to bypass wings. Simple. It’s not right that ranged magNBs are completely useless against DKs. When I see a magNB on the other team on my DK, I know immediately that it’s an easy kill at best, and a minor annoyance at worst. I don’t want to be able to kill DKs easily, I just want a better shot at killing them when I’m on my NB. As things currently stand, it’s pointless to even try taking out a DK on a ranged magNB build. Force pulse spam and resto/lightning heavy attacks will only kill a DK if said DK is outnumbered. 1v1? Forget about it. If a DK dies 1v1 to a Force Pulse/HA spamming NB, they need to delete the game and download Hello Kitty Online.
Wings doesn't COMPLETELY shut down ranged MagBlades. It's a MagBlade's choice to ONLY slot ranged abilities. There's a plethora of melee abilities that MagBlades have... including a very broken Mass Hysteria- which allows time to burst down a DK. Also, how well does your DK gap-closer (22m range) work against ranged attackers in PVP... considering that they can hit you from 28-40+ meters? I'm thinking that you main a NB and have a DK that's collecting dust on the shelf.
Sure. So next time try to fight with only non-dot single target skills on your magDK . There is few skills in Dk tree.
Edited by Anyron on April 10, 2019 6:46PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Closing remark: If wings get changed I would welcome them getting some properties of shimmering Shield like having a Damage cap for "counterplay" which cannot be reached by any means that is not hacking, Major heroism and 60% cost restore for doing what it is supposed to do .
DKs cant get major heroism. It would be broken.2
