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Please don't clip my Wings!
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ok, worst news I have ever read when I heard that my DK's Wings is being nerfed into uselessness.
As a stamDK, this is literally my number 1 survival tool against ranged spam, which if the devs had even spent one minute in a BG, would know the game is saturated with.
This would make us just as vulnerable as Templars, without any of the utility.
I really don't understand how having a survival tool for stamDK is such a bad idea. Did I kill too many devs running tryhard magblade builds in BGs?
Honestly, Wardens have ice shield, NBs can teleport out or stealth out. Now I'll just be a sitting duck.
How about making the reflect morph a stamina morph? That way it can't be spammed by magDK, which I assume where the problem lay.
Yours truly,
A salty stamDK
P.S.
Seriously, don't take my Wings, I'll love you forever and ever.
except this is a buff as the number of enemies increase...
No
only reduces the dmg of (some) ranged enemies, you can still be wrecked by any melee build. For what I understand, beams and AoE ranged skills still do dmg
It still is a buff as the enemies increase, he’s not wrong. If you have 3-4 ranged builds pinging projectiles at you, the reflect barely lasts a second. Unless you can keep spamming it on GCD. If you can’t, new Scales is better.EU | PC | AD3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok, worst news I have ever read when I heard that my DK's Wings is being nerfed into uselessness.
As a stamDK, this is literally my number 1 survival tool against ranged spam, which if the devs had even spent one minute in a BG, would know the game is saturated with.
This would make us just as vulnerable as Templars, without any of the utility.
I really don't understand how having a survival tool for stamDK is such a bad idea. Did I kill too many devs running tryhard magblade builds in BGs?
Honestly, Wardens have ice shield, NBs can teleport out or stealth out. Now I'll just be a sitting duck.
How about making the reflect morph a stamina morph? That way it can't be spammed by magDK, which I assume where the problem lay.
Yours truly,
A salty stamDK
P.S.
Seriously, don't take my Wings, I'll love you forever and ever.
except this is a buff as the number of enemies increase...
No
only reduces the dmg of (some) ranged enemies, you can still be wrecked by any melee build. For what I understand, beams and AoE ranged skills still do dmg
It still is a buff as the enemies increase, he’s not wrong. If you have 3-4 ranged builds pinging projectiles at you, the reflect barely lasts a second. Unless you can keep spamming it on GCD. If you can’t, new Scales is better.
Not all ranged attacks are projectiles. It takes a half a second to swap from snipe to bombard or from strife to force pulse. People learns how to face an enemy. The differece is that they will careless use light attacks, when now they have to put attention to what they are doing.
Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »if someone is mindlessly spamming something like cliff racer at you.
not like Magden has much else to use TBH XD
Magden's entire burst combo ignores wings. I understand when magblades say that they don't have a choice but I don't buy it when its a magsorc/magden. Those two have plenty of ways to go through wings. As for cliff racer, well.. I think its a balanced skill as of right now. Not trying to imply anything else really. Spammables are meant to be spammed.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 8, 2019 6:38PM1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Again, the reduction is just for projectiles. Not all ranged skills are projectiles. Not all players try to burn a DK from 41 mts using projectiles.
Side solutions:
1- In the case of NBs, improve melee mageblade, making Concealed a more appealing skill
2- In the case of mSorcs, Giving sorcs a magicka/stamina based spammable that goes through wings.
But you are happy with the current state on msorcs and mageblades, so, let's nerf wings. Then don't forget to ask for a nerf in Stance and Spell Wall.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Again, the reduction is just for projectiles. Not all ranged skills are projectiles. Not all players try to burn a DK from 41 mts using projectiles.
Side solutions:
1- In the case of NBs, improve melee mageblade, making Concealed a more appealing skill
2- In the case of mSorcs, Giving sorcs a magicka/stamina based spammable that goes through wings.
But you are happy with the current state on msorcs and mageblades, so, let's nerf wings. Then don't forget to ask for a nerf in Stance and Spell Wall.
Yes but that is still true regardless of the change or not, Wings doesn't help against the "non-projectiles" now. Currently you spend much more mag trying to keep them up, but can implode if they drop. The change will mean no need to try to keep them up, and you gain significant mitigation against them. This means no more immunity to projectiles 1v1, but you can actually do more in 1vX.
It's still not going to carry anyone to win, but will allow for more aggressive gameplay instead of having to constantly go back for wings. I think its a bigger buff for stam than for mag DK, but I think its likely a buff for both overall. If you want or need to stay defensive, you can cast a heal or a shield instead of having to spam wings hoping they don't pop due to projectile number.
The only thing that really hurts is that ranged players will be less reticent to cast into wings. Despite the posturing on these forums I'm really uncertain the new wings is not actually a buff.
While a player like myself has to worry about casting into wings on live, I can and have worked around wings by selectively light attacking to set up an ult dump>CC with one more light attack to drop the wings. With the rumored change it will be easier for DK's to keep up wings, I cannot force them to drop it with my own actions and my heavy hitters are still greatly mitigated. I may feel less direct punishment for casting into wings, but I may as well just be fighting a losing battle either way.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..3 -
joseayalac✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »joseayalac wrote: »Trancestor wrote: »Oh no your crutch is getting reworked, wings are the biggest carry in BGs right now so you will just have to l2p like every other class now (besides magsorcs).
Wings carry? ROFL!
Stam DK is one of the hardest classes to master in PVP.
Never played any other class, did you?
All of them actually, only both NBs felt harder to play correctly. I've taken all of them to a rank 10 in assault/support just by playing BGs.
Mag DK feels easier though.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Again, the reduction is just for projectiles. Not all ranged skills are projectiles. Not all players try to burn a DK from 41 mts using projectiles.
Side solutions:
1- In the case of NBs, improve melee mageblade, making Concealed a more appealing skill
2- In the case of mSorcs, Giving sorcs a magicka/stamina based spammable that goes through wings.
But you are happy with the current state on msorcs and mageblades, so, let's nerf wings. Then don't forget to ask for a nerf in Stance and Spell Wall.
Yes but that is still true regardless of the change or not, Wings doesn't help against the "non-projectiles" now. Currently you spend much more mag trying to keep them up, but can implode if they drop. The change will mean no need to try to keep them up, and you gain significant mitigation against them. This means no more immunity to projectiles 1v1, but you can actually do more in 1vX.
It's still not going to carry anyone to win, but will allow for more aggressive gameplay instead of having to constantly go back for wings. I think its a bigger buff for stam than for mag DK, but I think its likely a buff for both overall. If you want or need to stay defensive, you can cast a heal or a shield instead of having to spam wings hoping they don't pop due to projectile number.
The only thing that really hurts is that ranged players will be less reticent to cast into wings. Despite the posturing on these forums I'm really uncertain the new wings is not actually a buff.
While a player like myself has to worry about casting into wings on live, I can and have worked around wings by selectively light attacking to set up an ult dump>CC with one more light attack to drop the wings. With the rumored change it will be easier for DK's to keep up wings, I cannot force them to drop it with my own actions and my heavy hitters are still greatly mitigated. I may feel less direct punishment for casting into wings, but I may as well just be fighting a losing battle either way.
It is utility vs uptime. Yes, you will keep wings up for more time. No, it won't bring more utility to the gameplay. One of the things I dislike about this change is the fact that as a Stam or Mag DK I cannot make use of a ranged play style, which would be a perfect side step in DKs build. DK is melee or impaired (compared to the use other classes make of ranged). As I said in another thread, I have no problem with wings change if ZoS gives something in exchange that serves to the ranged playstyle. A good choice would be a more generic damge passive (not those attached to the ardent flame skill line). That way I can use wings as a defensive move while still fighting the guy attacking me. Wings cover that function of keeping pressure on the enemy while closing the 41 mts to 22 mts gap. No pressure, no way to win that fight, and DKs will be CCed anyway from range just by using reach (Frost reach being the biggest offender there).Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭The current iteration of Wings is just silly. Look at the sword & shield reflect by comparison, wings is essentially 4 times as effective. And the new 50% damage reduction without a cap is hardly useless.
In what part it says is a 50% damage reduction ON ALL ATTACKS? Is just 50% dmg reduction against projectiles. Force pulse, Soul Assaut and even elemental ring/Bombard will still do 100% dmg against DK. Melee skills? Just the same.
People read what they want to read
Where do you imagine I'm saying the 50% works on all attacks?0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The best idea I've heard is to keep the current four projectile reflect at long distances, but projectiles cast at melee range (say, ten to fifteen meters?) go through. That solves the problem of 41 meter Snipes, and magblade being completely countered.
You still have great heals, whip, and fossilize to deal with anyone that close.
2 -
SippingPotions✭✭✭I am not sure why they wanna change it to 50% damage reduction from ranged attacks.
I play as main magsorc ( which is pure ranged class) and sure, i hate this skill but there is nothing bad on it. Just removing reflection (getting back your own skills to your face isnt nice) part while giving 100% ranged damage immunity for 6s is good enought.
And no, i don't play DK at all for more than 3 years.
Would be fine for stam DK's but I'm not sure about mag DK's having 100% immunity to magsorcs and magblades.0 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭ZOS coming for DKs.
More seriously wings are perhaps the best example of polarized game play. Useless defensively (until snare removal was added) against pure melee opponents and much worse against even two ranged opponents but extremely strong against one ranged opponent. Chances are that(mag) DKs will be buffed (longer gap close maybe) if they really do underperform against distant ranged opponents.
However a 50% reduction that is multiplicative is still a hefty defense and LOS and people being thirsty for kills (I know I am) will also help secure melee. It isn't like making it impossible for a ranged target to kill you from far away actually helps you kill them. Honestly maintaining the reflect at range and dropping it up close might work if it wasn't calculation intensive. That's probably a good reason not to have that fix...2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ok, worst news I have ever read when I heard that my DK's Wings is being nerfed into uselessness.
As a stamDK, this is literally my number 1 survival tool against ranged spam, which if the devs had even spent one minute in a BG, would know the game is saturated with.
This would make us just as vulnerable as Templars, without any of the utility.
I really don't understand how having a survival tool for stamDK is such a bad idea. Did I kill too many devs running tryhard magblade builds in BGs?
Honestly, Wardens have ice shield, NBs can teleport out or stealth out. Now I'll just be a sitting duck.
How about making the reflect morph a stamina morph? That way it can't be spammed by magDK, which I assume where the problem lay.
Yours truly,
A salty stamDK
P.S.
Seriously, don't take my Wings, I'll love you forever and ever.
except this is a buff as the number of enemies increase...
No
only reduces the dmg of (some) ranged enemies, you can still be wrecked by any melee build. For what I understand, beams and AoE ranged skills still do dmg
It still is a buff as the enemies increase, he’s not wrong. If you have 3-4 ranged builds pinging projectiles at you, the reflect barely lasts a second. Unless you can keep spamming it on GCD. If you can’t, new Scales is better.
Not all ranged attacks are projectiles. It takes a half a second to swap from snipe to bombard or from strife to force pulse. People learns how to face an enemy. The differece is that they will careless use light attacks, when now they have to put attention to what they are doing.
Mate, really no offence meant but you’re talking nonsense.
First off, you are confusing projectiles with reflectable attacks. Reflectables are a subset of projectiles. Force Pulse, Cliffracer... they are still projectiles just not reflectable. How do I know? They get absorbed by Shimmering Shield. If new Scales reduces the damage of projectiles it means taking less dmg from them too.
Also, Bombard is not the answer to not being able to land a snipe. It has neither the range nor the damage. And while Force Pulse ignores reflects, somehow Flame Reach is still far far more common. Not everyone builds to counter a magDK and they shouldn’t anyway. That’s the reality.
6” of 50% less dmg from projectiles will lead to more mitigation than 1” of reflects which is what happens right now when you get pelted by ranged attacks and can’t afford spam wings. The statement I made was correct given those parameters. I don’t know why that’s the hill you choose to die on.
Edited by Maulkin on April 9, 2019 10:17AMEU | PC | AD4 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, worst news I have ever read when I heard that my DK's Wings is being nerfed into uselessness.
As a stamDK, this is literally my number 1 survival tool against ranged spam, which if the devs had even spent one minute in a BG, would know the game is saturated with.
This would make us just as vulnerable as Templars, without any of the utility.
I really don't understand how having a survival tool for stamDK is such a bad idea. Did I kill too many devs running tryhard magblade builds in BGs?
Honestly, Wardens have ice shield, NBs can teleport out or stealth out. Now I'll just be a sitting duck.
How about making the reflect morph a stamina morph? That way it can't be spammed by magDK, which I assume where the problem lay.
Yours truly,
A salty stamDK
P.S.
Seriously, don't take my Wings, I'll love you forever and ever.
except this is a buff as the number of enemies increase...
No
only reduces the dmg of (some) ranged enemies, you can still be wrecked by any melee build. For what I understand, beams and AoE ranged skills still do dmg
It still is a buff as the enemies increase, he’s not wrong. If you have 3-4 ranged builds pinging projectiles at you, the reflect barely lasts a second. Unless you can keep spamming it on GCD. If you can’t, new Scales is better.
Not all ranged attacks are projectiles. It takes a half a second to swap from snipe to bombard or from strife to force pulse. People learns how to face an enemy. The differece is that they will careless use light attacks, when now they have to put attention to what they are doing.
Sure. And since when you could kill enemy with force pulse alone(and swap skills in combat)?
If you have as DK any healing on your bar your safe3 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The best idea I've heard is to keep the current four projectile reflect at long distances, but projectiles cast at melee range (say, ten to fifteen meters?) go through. That solves the problem of 41 meter Snipes, and magblade being completely countered.
You still have great heals, whip, and fossilize to deal with anyone that close.
That’s not a bad idea at all. Though I think part of the reason they want it as a 6” buff is cause they want it to be useable by stamDKs as well. So that the StamDK gets a bit more class identity.
And tbh, if they either increase the duration by a couple of secs or cut the cost by about 500 it very much becomes useable by stamDKs. If it’s cut to 3k (from current 3.5k) every 6” that is very manageable between battle roar, constitution, pots and base regen. At least in CP campaigns. It only needs the equivalent of 1k mag regen for major uptime.
Neither current Scales nor your suggestion provide enough benefits to make it useable for StamDKs. I mean it’s a straight nerf on its current version and that’s hardly used by StamDKs as is.Edited by Maulkin on April 9, 2019 8:11AMEU | PC | AD1 -
mongoLC✭✭✭✭should have never been a skill in the first place. You shouldn't be able to reflect attacks back.1
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IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am not sure why they wanna change it to 50% damage reduction from ranged attacks.
I play as main magsorc ( which is pure ranged class) and sure, i hate this skill but there is nothing bad on it. Just removing reflection (getting back your own skills to your face isnt nice) part while giving 100% ranged damage immunity for 6s is good enought.
And no, i don't play DK at all for more than 3 years.
I think it's hilarious and the best part!
I literally LOL when I meme myself my own spectral bow proc.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don’t know why people think this is too weak. I’m more concerned about the opposite.
When I play magblade and face a magDK it’s a bit of a mismatch for sure, but against some magDKs who aren’t the best I can still get kills by timing the burst. I count the projectiles, feeding them into my Harness, and when the reflect goes down I will land an ult+spectral bow combo. And let’s face it, it’s hard to know when your projectile immunity is about to go down on the current version.
But with the new wings, if the DK simply makes it part of a “rotation” every 6” it massively decreases you chance to land full burst during the fight. The bow proc dmg will be cut in half way more often than it now gets reflected. And with the passive heals that magDKs get (Embers, Whip, Battle Roar) let’s not pretend that you can whittle down their HP when your skills are doing 50% of their dmg.
And if a stamDK can keep it up while also reverb bashing, DoTing and snaring the life out of me... it makes that fight even more of a mismatch too.
Edited by Maulkin on April 9, 2019 9:33AMEU | PC | AD5 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭I pulled my Chrystal Ball out and here is what I saw:
ZOS reads feedback here and see people (some) are very happy with 50% reduction and even call it a buff.
>ZOS puts Wings on PTS at 40%.
>DK haters start screaming they can't put a dent on DK's and 40% is too much.
>ZOS puts new Wings on Live at 30%.
After a while DK haters continue winning they can't kill a good DK and that it's Wing's fault.
>ZOS nerfs Wings to 15% - or reworks the way the damage reduction is calculated to make the 30% on paper be effectively 15%.
Meanwhile, in the next-next patch, ZOS reworks weapon skill line abilities and removes Reflect from SnB altogether.
>The game now loses yet another universal and fun mechanic without anything to replace it.
And no, I don't have a DK main, although I do have all classes max leveled, I just play Templar and Sorc more.
I'm just concerned when I look at the list of mechanics lost and I barely see anything new added, at least not anything universal - basically the only new mechanic introduced in Years(!) is the time reverse thing from Psijiic.
It's sad to see the game I used to love just become a sad shadow of itself, combat wise.2 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, worst news I have ever read when I heard that my DK's Wings is being nerfed into uselessness.
As a stamDK, this is literally my number 1 survival tool against ranged spam, which if the devs had even spent one minute in a BG, would know the game is saturated with.
This would make us just as vulnerable as Templars, without any of the utility.
I really don't understand how having a survival tool for stamDK is such a bad idea. Did I kill too many devs running tryhard magblade builds in BGs?
Honestly, Wardens have ice shield, NBs can teleport out or stealth out. Now I'll just be a sitting duck.
How about making the reflect morph a stamina morph? That way it can't be spammed by magDK, which I assume where the problem lay.
Yours truly,
A salty stamDK
P.S.
Seriously, don't take my Wings, I'll love you forever and ever.
except this is a buff as the number of enemies increase...
No
only reduces the dmg of (some) ranged enemies, you can still be wrecked by any melee build. For what I understand, beams and AoE ranged skills still do dmg
Which does not happen right now, does it? 😂2 -
Mr_Nobody✭✭✭✭✭Ok, worst news I have ever read when I heard that my DK's Wings is being nerfed into uselessness.
As a stamDK, this is literally my number 1 survival tool against ranged spam, which if the devs had even spent one minute in a BG, would know the game is saturated with.
This would make us just as vulnerable as Templars, without any of the utility.
I really don't understand how having a survival tool for stamDK is such a bad idea. Did I kill too many devs running tryhard magblade builds in BGs?
Honestly, Wardens have ice shield, NBs can teleport out or stealth out. Now I'll just be a sitting duck.
How about making the reflect morph a stamina morph? That way it can't be spammed by magDK, which I assume where the problem lay.
Yours truly,
A salty stamDK
P.S.
Seriously, don't take my Wings, I'll love you forever and ever.
Naw, you will be a Templar-like.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I pulled my Chrystal Ball out and here is what I saw:
ZOS reads feedback here and see people (some) are very happy with 50% reduction and even call it a buff.
>ZOS puts Wings on PTS at 40%.
>DK haters start screaming they can't put a dent on DK's and 40% is too much.
>ZOS puts new Wings on Live at 30%.
After a while DK haters continue winning they can't kill a good DK and that it's Wing's fault.
>ZOS nerfs Wings to 15% - or reworks the way the damage reduction is calculated to make the 30% on paper be effectively 15%.
Meanwhile, in the next-next patch, ZOS reworks weapon skill line abilities and removes Reflect from SnB altogether.
>The game now loses yet another universal and fun mechanic without anything to replace it.
And no, I don't have a DK main, although I do have all classes max leveled, I just play Templar and Sorc more.
I'm just concerned when I look at the list of mechanics lost and I barely see anything new added, at least not anything universal - basically the only new mechanic introduced in Years(!) is the time reverse thing from Psijiic.
It's sad to see the game I used to love just become a sad shadow of itself, combat wise.
You're basically building an argument that a mechanic is being lost on the hypothesis that they will also remove Spell Wall.
Calm down.EU | PC | AD3 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wings needed this. It was a crutch that made it so ZOS couldn't buff the class survivability properly. It is a buff when out numbered. It is a Nerf when fighting a magBlade or a sniper or a sorc warden using reach which is just superior to their other options against everything except DK. So this change if true needs to happen. A full counter to a certain playstyle is just not healthy when their are no other counters like it in game. A dot DK can still beat a magPlar even though the magPlar can cleanse which is a counter to dots but not a full you're effed counter. A magBlade has nothing it can do even if it builds melee or uses force pulse. If you think force pulse or concealed spam alone will beat a dk then lol. A sorc should never be able to finish a dk with wings up unless the sorc is running matriarch and the dk is silly enough to stand in atro zone for any length of time. MagDen has no good stun honestly besides shock reach. So if they are using bird solo they can't dot you and they can't stun you unless they use vamp drain or that horrendous expensive crap ice stun. And your wings will also give you snare immunity so you can just walk right out of their ice Fields as they keep expensively applying them lol.
Wings needs this change it's better out numbered it opens the game up to all builds more or less. Because DK is so darn popular lately PC NA, it was just a pain to have any range. And it still gives snare immunity which alone is just powerful. Now ZOS Mr. Wheeler will have to make sure they have a little more survivability in other areas not much because again 50% strongk. Cauterize bigger heal dragon blood made better and cheaper crap like that. Chain gap closer fix things like this4 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The proposed change of 50% projectile reduction is a bit too high; I think 25-30% would be more appropriate and in line with other damage reduction skills in the game.
As for DKs crying about losing one of the most overtuned skills in the game: adapt (TM). You are currently the reason why I have to play my mNB as a healer. Last night, I found myself in one of those rare matches where there were NO mDKs or sDKs on the opposing teams, and I actually got to switch to my damage sets. I was *gasp* actually able to be effective as a damage dealer! Next match? Multiple wings spamming DKs. I tried to stick with the damage spec for the first five minutes, then had to accept that spending the whole match trying to figure out when the opposing teams’ wings were down, only to have them repop wings the second I unleash a burst combo, was just a ridiculous waste of time. There are few things more infuriating than dying to your own Impale or your own spectral bow proc.
The justification that is often given for why DKs need wings is that they need to force ranged players into melee range. That is UTTER BS. Know why? You have access to:
- Take Flight/Ferocious Leap
- Empowering Chains/Unrelenting Grip
- Silver Leash
- Stampede/Crit Rush
- Invasion/Shielded Assault
Want to get a ranged player into melee range? Gap close to them or pull them to you. The idea that you need wings to force ranged players into melee range is BS, and you know it.Edited by Aurielle on April 9, 2019 11:51AM8 -
satanio✭✭✭✭
But this statement is false. You can adjust your playstyle... the same way I have to slot Expert Hunter or additional AoEs to fight nbs.cpuScientist wrote: »A full counter to a certain playstyle is just not healthy when their are no other counters like it in game.
But who am I to speak, not doing PvP anymore. PvE is my haven.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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Again, the reduction is just for projectiles. Not all ranged skills are projectiles. Not all players try to burn a DK from 41 mts using projectiles.
Side solutions:
1- In the case of NBs, improve melee mageblade, making Concealed a more appealing skill
2- In the case of mSorcs, Giving sorcs a magicka/stamina based spammable that goes through wings.
But you are happy with the current state on msorcs and mageblades, so, let's nerf wings. Then don't forget to ask for a nerf in Stance and Spell Wall.
Correct not everyone is trying to burn the DK from 41mts. So i hope now you realise how ridiculously stupid it is to call the ability useless because you are getting instagibbed by attacks that it shouldnt protect you from.
For real tho. In what world does anyone actually believe that a 50% dmg reduction against projectiles is useless. Its not even about being happy with the change. I actually think the change is dumb cause whether its reflect or a 50% dmg reduction the biggest problem with the ability remains the same. Its still going to be OP in a 1v1 so they may as well keep it as it is.
Also, are you really comparing spell wall with wings now? Not that i actually think that spell wall is ok but seriously, thats an ultimate. You expect them to be on par?2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
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The justification that is often given for why DKs need wings is that they need to force ranged players into melee range. That is UTTER BS. Know why? You have access to:
- Take Flight/Ferocious Leap
- Empowering Chains/Unrelenting Grip
- Silver Leash
- Stampede/Crit Rush
- Invasion/Shielded Assault
Want to get a ranged player into melee range? Gap close to them or pull them to you. The idea that you need wings to force ranged players into melee range is BS, and you know it.
Lets talk you through all those abilities to get People close range on mdk.
Leap: Nice joke, first of all if you use it from range the Damage and cc can simply be outrun so you waste up to 500 ult for exactly Nothing. Second, why dont you disable your resource recovery tool and execute for at Minimum 30 seconds to start a fight? Doesnt Sound reasonable? But for dk its an appropiate Option? Also is easily outranged by any ranged ability.
Unrelenting grip: doesnt work on cc immune Targets, Shorter range than ranged abilities, bugged to hell and back, if you pull your target you make it immune to your main burst and to your main cc. Also "your target is too high or too low because it is Standing on an ant hill but good luck with your amazing pull".
Empowering Chains: doesnt work 50ish% off the time, when you cast it but your Opponent walks out of its range it wont fire, if you cast it and Opponent cloaks it wont fire, if you cast it and Opponent blocks it occasionaly doesnt fire, if you cast it and opponent dodgerolls it occasionaly doesnt fire. Also " your target is too high or too low because it is Standing on an ant hill good luck with your amazing gap Closer". Shorter range than ranged abilities and the only speedbuff in the entire dk kit requires you to land this ability which does not land the majority of the time.
Rest of your listed Options are stam abilities so not mentioning those since they are not intended to be used by mdk.
Issue for me with dk mobility is that outside of the 2 second snare immunity in wings, which you are not supposed to spam cast anymore after the Change, dks only help with Speed is tied to Landing an ability for which you Need Speed to land it in the first place. Leaving them open to be kited by ranged builds which mostly have Access to Major Expedition without needing to land a 22m gap Closer and an additional ability to kite aka shade (when it works), cloak or streak.
Edited by Sanguinor2 on April 9, 2019 12:38PMPoliteness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
The justification that is often given for why DKs need wings is that they need to force ranged players into melee range. That is UTTER BS. Know why? You have access to:
- Take Flight/Ferocious Leap
- Empowering Chains/Unrelenting Grip
- Silver Leash
- Stampede/Crit Rush
- Invasion/Shielded Assault
Want to get a ranged player into melee range? Gap close to them or pull them to you. The idea that you need wings to force ranged players into melee range is BS, and you know it.
Lets talk you through all those abilities to get People close range on mdk.
Leap: Nice joke, first of all if you use it from range the Damage and cc can simply be outrun so you waste up to 500 ult for exactly Nothing. Second, why dont you disable your resource recovery tool and execute for at Minimum 30 seconds to start a fight? Doesnt Sound reasonable? But for dk its an appropiate Option? Also is easily outranged by any ranged ability.
Unrelenting grip: doesnt work on cc immune Targets, Shorter range than ranged abilities, bugged to hell and back, if you pull your target you make it immune to your main burst and to your main cc. Also "your target is too high or too low because it is Standing on an ant hill but good luck with your amazing pull".
Empowering Chains: doesnt work 50ish% off the time, when you cast it but your Opponent walks out of its range it wont fire, if you cast it and Opponent cloaks it wont fire, if you cast it and Opponent blocks it occasionaly doesnt fire, if you cast it and opponent dodgerolls it occasionaly doesnt fire. Also " your target is too high or too low because it is Standing on an ant hill good luck with your amazing gap Closer". Shorter range than ranged abilities and the only speedbuff in the entire dk kit requires you to land this ability which does not land the majority of the time.
Rest of your listed Options are stam abilities so not mentioning those since they are not intended to be used by mdk.
Issue for me with dk mobility is that outside of the 2 second snare immunity in wings, which you are not supposed to spam cast anymore after the Change, dks only help with Speed is tied to Landing an ability for which you Need Speed to land it in the first place. Leaving them open to be kited by ranged builds which mostly have Access to Major Expedition without needing to land a 22m gap Closer and an additional ability to kite aka shade (when it works), cloak or streak.
So because your gap closers don’t work for you sometimes, I can’t use any magblade projectiles on you when you’re spamming wings. Ever.
K. Good argument.3 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭Take the reflect component off completely and have it heal you like the Templar bubble that was given the same treatment.The current iteration of Wings is just silly. Look at the sword & shield reflect by comparison, wings is essentially 4 times as effective. And the new 50% damage reduction without a cap is hardly useless.
In what part it says is a 50% damage reduction ON ALL ATTACKS? Is just 50% dmg reduction against projectiles. Force pulse, Soul Assaut and even elemental ring/Bombard will still do 100% dmg against DK. Melee skills? Just the same.
People read what they want to read
When have you died died to Force pulse and Soul Assault alone?
Force pulse and Soul Assault hahaha
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)2 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There we have it, folks! NBs and Sorcs who can burn DKs down from a range of 28+ meters (outside of our 22 meter gap closer) all agree that this is a good and balanced change!
Luckily our major expedition is tied to our gap closer- so we can’t run up to get them in melee range. Oh, and of course these two classes have the best mobility in game... so they can use major expedition to kite us... or streak to keep us at range... or cloak constantly outside of a detect potion range while pewpewing us at 28+ meters with no repercussions.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren5