Magicka DragonKnight Wings Rumor and Thoughts

Patro · April 2019

Nerf at wings is just the coup de grace to a class almost already dead as the magicka dk.

brandonv516 · April 2019

Apoxsee wrote: »

brandonv516

Your do know that they are removing berserk from resolve, right? By giving it to this morph the class is able to have this buff retain on at least one of the styles of play.

Yes I've seen this.

I just can't see them taking it away from us and giving it right back in the form of another skill.

And as said before, it doesn't make the morph any more desireable. Concealed Weapon needs a small heal attached to it for melee Magblade to be relevant.

Illuvatarr · April 2019

This is a major buff to dks in pvp. The change they should have made is to make wings reflect all projectiles including meteor and proc sets but for it to not reflect anything in melee range.

satanio · April 2019

How can you call this a buff? Imagine 4 ranged high mobility builds slowly burning you down, knockbacking and stunning. Doesnt matter if it is 50% (in reality with other mitigations is 30%), it’ll give them just 50% more time to kill you. Its only a theoretical buff.

Yukonicus · April 2019

Honestly with the way Dragonknights are currently. The change from 4 Reflects to just a damage reduction is a horrible idea. Yes, you can adjust to the change but the wings were one of the most unique abilities in the game. With the way people can spam range attacks across various ways, this damage reduction will make the skill useless to the point no one is going to use it. As the original post mentions, damage reduction versus a LA spam will do nothing, they will be able to kill you now versus wings being the counter to it. A change like this will make LA even more meta than it currently is.

Mayrael · April 2019

Its a nerf from 1v1 perspective and buff from 1vX perspective which makes skill a lot more balanced. TBH personally I like more the idea of wings working only on projectiles casted from range greater than 8m and making them to reflect 4 projectiles per player, but well...

satanio · April 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

Its a nerf from 1v1 perspective and buff from 1vX perspective which makes skill a lot more balanced. TBH personally I like more the idea of wings working only on projectiles casted from range greater than 8m and making them to reflect 4 projectiles per player, but well...

Once more - How is it a buff? It doesn't matter in 1vX cause, the sheer amount of X would kill you no matter what wings do. Because it's more of them and they will just overwhelm you.
I suppose you believe that with new wings you could handle 4 people with ranged high mobility builds, or what. They would melt you down.
This is only theoretical buff, that will not prove in practice. Frankly, it's a NERF.

devilsTear · April 2019

Zos is a bunch of idiots, keep wings as is.
Keep class identities,
Let sorcs shield
Let nightblades cloak
Let templars cleanse
Let wardens absorb
Let dragonknights reflect

DreadDaedroth · April 2019

They could have adjusted or tweaked wings but no! They have to be dull,grey and boring, twisting the original function of reflecting wings into a banal damage reduction bonus.

Walks_With_Kagouti · April 2019

The only way this would be a possible buff is if and I mean a big if! The standard morph is: All damaging projectiles are reduced by 50% for 6 seconds. (Not a buff)
1 morph is: Increases the cost but heals you for the 50% damage that would have been received.
2nd morph is: The 50% damage you would have received is returned back to the enemy

Only then would it he a buff and fair ( or would still need some tuning idk, I don't make the game and I'm not in charge)

Illuvatarr · April 2019

satanio wrote: »

How can you call this a buff? Imagine 4 ranged high mobility builds slowly burning you down, knockbacking and stunning. Doesnt matter if it is 50% (in reality with other mitigations is 30%), it’ll give them just 50% more time to kill you. Its only a theoretical buff.

You will rip them apart. Make you DK an altmer for 5 percent damage mitigation while channeling. Slot temporal guard on your back bar as ultimate and have meditate on back bar for sustain. That’s 50 percent mitigation plus 30 percent for major protection plus 5 percent for altmer plus 8 percent for temporal guard. If multiplicative formula, it should give you roughly 72 percent or more damage mitigation.

Sanguinor2 · April 2019

The funniest Thing About this wings Change is that it will not solve issues projectile only (mainly thinking About magblades) classes/builds have.
There is other ranged counters in this game besides wings and magblade still has rather weak healing, can still be permarooted, still has a big delay on their main burst ability and will simply have to Campaign against the next ranged counter aka shimmering until that too gets nerfed so it doesnt hard counter anymore.
Yes the wings Change will help magblades in a 1v1 against mdk compared to live but its issues and numerous direct and indirect nerfs are still there and still an issue.
I´d much rather Keep wings as is and have the class balance patch adress class issues magblades have without making them sole BIS (for mag dps) in pve again since now sharing the spot with other mag classes is nice for diversity.

Flame_of_Hades · April 2019

satanio wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Its a nerf from 1v1 perspective and buff from 1vX perspective which makes skill a lot more balanced. TBH personally I like more the idea of wings working only on projectiles casted from range greater than 8m and making them to reflect 4 projectiles per player, but well...

Once more - How is it a buff? It doesn't matter in 1vX cause, the sheer amount of X would kill you no matter what wings do. Because it's more of them and they will just overwhelm you.
I suppose you believe that with new wings you could handle 4 people with ranged high mobility builds, or what. They would melt you down.
This is only theoretical buff, that will not prove in practice. Frankly, it's a NERF.

Your entire mindset here is the problem. How do other classes 1vx? They LoS. If you charge 4 people who know enough to keep range on a ranged build, you shouldn't win.

Iv said it before, and ill say it again. People in this game seem to have forgotten that being able to 1vx isn't owed to them, it's something you have to work for and achieve.

as for how it's a buff.... 6 seconds - 4 people on you, 8 projectiles a second if weaving (not snipe spamming).
that's 48 projectiles. assuming each does 1k (work with me), thats 4k mitigated damage from current wings. (for one cast).
with the changes, it will be 24k mitigated damage(with one cast).

You would have to cut the projectiles down to 8 if you wanted the same mitigation.

joseayalac · April 2019

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Its a nerf from 1v1 perspective and buff from 1vX perspective which makes skill a lot more balanced. TBH personally I like more the idea of wings working only on projectiles casted from range greater than 8m and making them to reflect 4 projectiles per player, but well...

Once more - How is it a buff? It doesn't matter in 1vX cause, the sheer amount of X would kill you no matter what wings do. Because it's more of them and they will just overwhelm you.
I suppose you believe that with new wings you could handle 4 people with ranged high mobility builds, or what. They would melt you down.
This is only theoretical buff, that will not prove in practice. Frankly, it's a NERF.

Your entire mindset here is the problem. How do other classes 1vx? They LoS. If you charge 4 people who know enough to keep range on a ranged build, you shouldn't win.

Iv said it before, and ill say it again. People in this game seem to have forgotten that being able to 1vx isn't owed to them, it's something you have to work for and achieve.

as for how it's a buff.... 6 seconds - 4 people on you, 8 projectiles a second if weaving (not snipe spamming).
that's 48 projectiles. assuming each does 1k (work with me), thats 4k mitigated damage from current wings. (for one cast).
with the changes, it will be 24k mitigated damage(with one cast).

You would have to cut the projectiles down to 8 if you wanted the same mitigation.

So you're telling me that it's easy to 1vX just because of wings? Because that is totally false.

Also, reflecting isn't absorbing. It's not just the mitigation of damage, it's the pressure you apply with the reflections which makes this skill worthwhile. So it's a nerf.

joseayalac · April 2019

Remember that Stam DK uses this skill as well, not just Magicka.

MaxwellC · April 2019

Remember if wings do not reflect but instead applies 50% damage reduction it still allows for debuffs to hit us, poisons to drain us, and DoTs to wither us down; A class about Standing your ground loses another option to do so.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

This is such a *** garbage change. Sorcs and NBs are defending it because now it leaves a DK even more open to being burned down from ranged attackers.

What’s a DK’s counter to ranged attackers now? Get them within melee? Ranged attacks can be done anywhere from 28 to 43 meters away. Our gap closer only goes to 22 meters. Our major expedition (to try to run up to those ranged attackers) is tied to our useless gap closer.

Oh, and while we try to waddle up to a NB or Sorc- they just use either form of their major expedition or cloak or streak away. So the two classes that have high mobility and high ranged damage now will be able to burn DKs down with a barrage of ranged attacks from a distance without repercussions.

And for people saying “slot temporal guard and meditate with wings up”. Sure! Let’s fill our *** bars with defensive skills and spam those. DKs can just stand still (literally floating in one place) so that NBs and Sorcs can pewpew at us like we’re target dummies. Thanks for that suggestion. We can see what you think of “balance”.

Cortimi · April 2019

This is the final nail in the coffin for stamDK. Weapon buff? Rally is better. Heal? Vigor is better unless a 40k+ HP tank. Class spammable?omegalul, just Dizzying Swing bro. Armor buff? Immovable is better. Now there is isn't even a viable defense option against ranged for stamDK, so you may as well use Defensive Posture.

Congrats, you now have a class that is entirely made up of weapon and armor skills. GG.

StShoot · April 2019

The arguments i saw so far

Wings are now cheaper to use:
Yeah you have that 6 second uptime but most of the time you will recast it every 2-4 seconds for the snare removal
Also most of the ranged abilitys come with a debuff so we need to spend the aditional magica on shields and healing

Its better for 1vX
Well (atleast on sotha) mag dks are realy bad in 1vX, they lack the stamina or abilitys that are needed to get out of the LoS(Streak/cloak/shade/dodge/sprint) and this change wont help. On the paper it looks like you get a higher dmg reduction with the new wings but you also have to consider that the debuffs will hit you. Also there are Bowtar... Sniperbuilds out there who can hit you with 15k snipe (+health desync), even with the new reduction it will still hit you for 7-8k, i would take the gamble to complete negate that dmg or take it to the face over the 8k granted hit.
I would maybe consider it a buff in 1vX if they change it to 50% reduction to ALL ranged attacks not just projectiles.

Reflect was op against:
Mag nbs: Yeah i can see the point but i would rather see the magblade buffed than a nerf to wings, even with the changes MagNb is still bottom tier in pvp

Magsorcs: I dont realy get that one, the only reflectable skill is crystal fragment (and maybe destructive reach), in another thread a sorc told me that the frags are one of the main burst ressources for the class, but so is the curse right ? And i dont saw any sorc crying that the templar purge is op because it can cleanse the purge.

And here comes my alltime favourite: Good players will adapt
Well that is somehow true, since the only thing mag dk mains did over the past years was to adapt

The reflect was the only ability in the game that punished players who spammed their range abilitys (snipe etc.). So i think we will see even more ranged builds in pvp than we allready have now. Is that realy so desireable ?

There were so much better options to adress that "problem", for example let the wings reflect 2 projectiles PER target, in a 1v1 they would be unsustainable but rather usefull in a 1vX situation. Or only reflect projectiles that are casted from more than 6-10 meters away.

With those changes the Wings will loose they uniqueness and wont be fun to play, just another buff i have to keep up (its like you have to play Chudan instead of your favourite monsterset

). And dont even get me started on the other morph (another FoO REALY ?)
If those Changes go live i wlll probably run Mistform instead of Wings, that 30% dmg reduction on everything and the speedbuff just seems superior to me even if i cant heal up (which is allready the case, since dragonblood heals less than it costs when you get major defiled and embers/whip are not exactly reliable heals when you try to get away from the enemy)

Zavijah · April 2019

I think if they remove Reflect from Wings, then they need to remove the melee range cap on our Burning Embers, and make some other ranged derivative of whip - or force us to spam Force Pulse and drop class flavour for a generic skill line ability.

You can't have a Magicka dps class that relies on melee range, which it can't get in to - when other Magicka specs can kill it.

Mag NB's do need a revision of how their spells can impact, absolutely. But Reflect is a part of the toolkit - otherwise, give us range on our other abilities.

Anyron · April 2019

Lets look on it from both sides.

You are ranged caster.
You meet dk with wings and most of your skills, light attacks (with infused proc) isnt only negated, but even reflected back in your face. Sure, dk cannot use it always, but as ranged you cannot getting your skills back too.
Then try to kill someone with only force pulse without light attacks. Thats briliant strategy so most of fights ranged vs Dk ends in ranged running away

Dk side
Lack of solid movement and Gap closers (even with chains) makes this class hard to play against ranged. And if you do, they can just get away (streak, Shadow image). Then all you can do is to spam wings

Both sides has hard time to fight each other. What is resonable is to give both sides something.
Make wings to negate infinite ammount of projectiles for 6seconds while reflect part is removed. Force pulse still can go through negation. Strife and its morphs can go through negation

Minalan · April 2019

Anyron wrote: »

Lets look on it from both sides.

You are ranged caster.
You meet dk with wings and most of your skills, light attacks (with infused proc) isnt only negated, but even reflected back in your face. Sure, dk cannot use it always, but as ranged you cannot getting your skills back too.
Then try to kill someone with only force pulse without light attacks. Thats briliant strategy so most of fights ranged vs Dk ends in ranged running away

Dk side
Lack of solid movement and Gap closers (even with chains) makes this class hard to play against ranged. And if you do, they can just get away (streak, Shadow image). Then all you can do is to spam wings

Both sides has hard time to fight each other. What is resonable is to give both sides something.
Make wings to negate infinite ammount of projectiles for 6seconds while reflect part is removed. Force pulse still can go through negation. Strife and its morphs can go through negation

Every skill should have a limit, even shimmering has a damage cap.

Keep it as is, and fix DK chains so that they can actually pull ranged players.

satanio · April 2019

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

How do other classes 1vx? They LoS. If you charge 4 people who know enough to keep range on a ranged build, you shouldn't win.

What does using LoS for your advantage has with new wings nerf? That's completely unrelated to what I've said.

Anyron wrote: »

Both sides has hard time to fight each other. What is resonable is to give both sides something.

If wings spam is the problem (not in stamDK case but ok), let's give wings streak/roll treatment (aka increase it's cost by {$someReasonableMultiplier} for every other use in {$X} seconds). And then the same could apply to other OP defense skills.

Xvorg · April 2019

Illuvatarr wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

How can you call this a buff? Imagine 4 ranged high mobility builds slowly burning you down, knockbacking and stunning. Doesnt matter if it is 50% (in reality with other mitigations is 30%), it’ll give them just 50% more time to kill you. Its only a theoretical buff.

You will rip them apart. Make you DK an altmer for 5 percent damage mitigation while channeling. Slot temporal guard on your back bar as ultimate and have meditate on back bar for sustain. That’s 50 percent mitigation plus 30 percent for major protection plus 5 percent for altmer plus 8 percent for temporal guard. If multiplicative formula, it should give you roughly 72 percent or more damage mitigation.

How do a DK channels? I would like to know what skill in all the DK arsenal has that option so I can try a Soulshine build.

P.D. The answer is no, No Channels on Dks.

Xvorg · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

This is such a *** garbage change. Sorcs and NBs are defending it because now it leaves a DK even more open to being burned down from ranged attackers.

What’s a DK’s counter to ranged attackers now? Get them within melee? Ranged attacks can be done anywhere from 28 to 43 meters away. Our gap closer only goes to 22 meters. Our major expedition (to try to run up to those ranged attackers) is tied to our useless gap closer.

Oh, and while we try to waddle up to a NB or Sorc- they just use either form of their major expedition or cloak or streak away. So the two classes that have high mobility and high ranged damage now will be able to burn DKs down with a barrage of ranged attacks from a distance without repercussions.

And for people saying “slot temporal guard and meditate with wings up”. Sure! Let’s fill our *** bars with defensive skills and spam those. DKs can just stand still (literally floating in one place) so that NBs and Sorcs can pewpew at us like we’re target dummies. Thanks for that suggestion. We can see what you think of “balance”.

Funny thing: DKs was a class that relied on blocking to get extra protection. Now is a class that must slot secific skills, spamming them form extra protection.

Nerfed GDB, nerfed block, nerfed wings... what comes next, nerf Volatile? From time to time DKs get a nerf on their defensive skills, though theres no buff to the offesive skills. No, that's too much.

msalvia · April 2019

I'm not sure if this change is even official or what the logic might be in implementing it; however, I typically dislike these kinds of changes if they're done to overbalance.

What i mean by overbalancing is leveling the classes to the point where the "scissors, rock, paper" of strengths and weaknesses are muted. In this case, I see absolutely no reason a DK can't have an edge against ranged attackers. We see this elsewhere--sorcs have a mobility edge against melee, for instance. IMO, there is nothing wrong with having skills that hose certain playstyles--in fact, I would argue this makes the game (and counterplay) more fun and challenging.

Of course, I hate facing off against a PvP DK on a ranged toon. But that's the downside of playing my type of toon--not every toon should be equally suited for all enemies. I'm gonna have a really easy time against that stamplar even if I struggle with DKs.

Again, perhaps there is a compelling reason for the change, I just really dislike this kind of "leveling," which seems to take away a unique ,interesting ability because a certain class or playstyle has trouble with it. It's hard to argue wings is OP when it really only affects ranged toons.

StShoot · April 2019

satanio wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

How do other classes 1vx? They LoS. If you charge 4 people who know enough to keep range on a ranged build, you shouldn't win.

What does using LoS for your advantage has with new wings nerf? That's completely unrelated to what I've said.

Anyron wrote: »

Both sides has hard time to fight each other. What is resonable is to give both sides something.

If wings spam is the problem (not in stamDK case but ok), let's give wings streak/roll treatment (aka increase it's cost by {$someReasonableMultiplier} for every other use in {$X} seconds). And then the same could apply to other OP defense skills.

Yeah if you give claok the same treatment xD

StShoot · April 2019

Xvorg wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

How can you call this a buff? Imagine 4 ranged high mobility builds slowly burning you down, knockbacking and stunning. Doesnt matter if it is 50% (in reality with other mitigations is 30%), it’ll give them just 50% more time to kill you. Its only a theoretical buff.

You will rip them apart. Make you DK an altmer for 5 percent damage mitigation while channeling. Slot temporal guard on your back bar as ultimate and have meditate on back bar for sustain. That’s 50 percent mitigation plus 30 percent for major protection plus 5 percent for altmer plus 8 percent for temporal guard. If multiplicative formula, it should give you roughly 72 percent or more damage mitigation.

How do a DK channels? I would like to know what skill in all the DK arsenal has that option so I can try a Soulshine build.

P.D. The answer is no, No Channels on Dks.

Weeeeell you could use meditate +soulstrike, with bloodspawn

Just meditate until your ult is full and hope it will be enaugh to kill the enemys, sounds like fun right ? xD

SirMewser · April 2019

Anyron wrote: »

Lets look on it from both sides.

You are ranged caster.
You meet dk with wings and most of your skills, light attacks (with infused proc) isnt only negated, but even reflected back in your face. Sure, dk cannot use it always, but as ranged you cannot getting your skills back too.
Then try to kill someone with only force pulse without light attacks. Thats briliant strategy so most of fights ranged vs Dk ends in ranged running away

Dk side
Lack of solid movement and Gap closers (even with chains) makes this class hard to play against ranged. And if you do, they can just get away (streak, Shadow image). Then all you can do is to spam wings

Both sides has hard time to fight each other. What is resonable is to give both sides something.
Make wings to negate infinite ammount of projectiles for 6seconds while reflect part is removed. Force pulse still can go through negation. Strife and its morphs can go through negation

I bet you were one of them fools, chasing a player in a group of 5+ for a quarter hour while their alliance flips the keep you just owned, next to you.

Ward the reflected projectiles.
Slap on absorb magicka to refund their cost.
Turn on (de)buff trackers.

Use something else besides light attacks, C-frag, or overload LA.

Familiar, Martiarch, Atronach, Morkuldin, Maw, Warden's Guardian, Shades, Lightning Form/Hurricane, Blade Cloak, Jabs, Soul Assault, Zaan, and Rapid Strike will eat the crap out of their stamina when blocking and won't give a damn for wings. CC them, then.

Force Shock, Meteor, Mages Wraith, Lightning HA, Rune Prison, Dive, Daedric Prey, Way of Fire, also ignore wings.

Any purge, bleeds, poison/burning dots, or defiles.
Immovable, stamina cost, hindrance poisons.

Streak through them, kite around mines or meat shield pets. Do something instead of your usual mindless rotation of curse , pulse, fury, frag , ulti, combo - that can destroy everyone else..

It's not like frags CC you after being reflected anymore.

WoE with back barred infused shock MSA lightning staff is my favorite way to melt them with; shock, concussed, vulnerability, off-balance, exploitation, crushing blockade HA bonus, HA AoE Dot, and main hand enchant proccing all off at once when I 1v1 or get behind pets in BGs.

Learn to play.

OwnerOfSuccuby · April 2019

I am tired becouse of people with no honer. Thay say as we believe there lies.

50% damage mitigation they say.

50% mitigation of range skills is less than 15% real metigation.

It do not metigate enchants, oblivion damage, dots, debuffs, stunns.

Change in wings is like - gg. Just delete the skill. More simple to heal than use it.

Wings save from debuffs, do not let one shot you.

I get 10 k damage from snipe from nb. I can upgrade that build to make 16 k damage from just snipe.

How will you survive from target that hit you 8 k each 1-2 seconds from invisible ? And put dots on you, that finish you off when hp start dropps?