Magicka DragonKnight Wings Rumor and Thoughts

irstarkey57

Alright guys, just gonna kinda try to highlight some of the main points about this in a constructive way. This is coming from someone who has mained a magdk for 4 years now in both PVE and PVP. Keep in mind that I have 14 other dps toons that I also play regularly in both PVE but mostly PVP. Stamblade, Magblade, all of them. I am saying this so the reader doesn't assume I don't get other classes points of view. Now, that being said, ANY change to wings IMO is a terrible idea. The skill is fine/perfect where its at now. Remember when crit frag used to stun, then they made the OP changes to rune prison and everyone said they wish they just had the old crit frag back, this will turn into one of those situations. You have to remember that in cyrodiil, magdk is super slow. We do not fight at ranged because we don't have the ability to. For those that will quickly think, slot force pulse; no. Flame Lash is one of our main heals IF (big if) it doesn't get roll dodged by the second hit. For those that will say slot chains; maaayyyybe. However, real estate on a magdks bar is so tight that you would be dropping either another necessary offensive heal that you would always use, to a skill that you wouldn't always use. So there's that. Every class has a skill that is super annoying, but let's start with the most annoying (and most should agree accept the ones that are probably praising a wings nerf). Lethal Arrow. This skill has been complained about forever now. Rightly so. It requires zero skill to spam, and with a group timing their arrows together, its lights out with zero counter play. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! (Billy Mays voice) Guess what skill in the game was direct counterplay to that? You got it, WINGS. See where im going with this. Nevermind templars can spam BOL and heal themselves and group members, nevermind that BG's look like an episode of Game of Thrones where winter came because of the Ice Wardens of the North...but somehow...Wings needs a nerf. It's silly. Zos has already nerfed the skill once and it is in a perfect place. Before all the magblades chime in, I want to say that you all are the only ones that should have the biggest gripe. But lets face it, your gripe extends way past wings. Every skill in the game nearly pulls you out of cloak, and you don't have a burst heal unless you wanna run combat prayer, but yea : / And as a DK that brings us back into ranged. If we lose wings, you all, like sorcs, can stand 28 meters a way and we can do what, now....take 50 percent less damage from ranged attacks? Plz. Someone do some quick math on 50 percent damage reduction from assassins will...hmmmm...a lot. Nevermind skills like surprise attack that stun out of stealth, apply major fracture, guaranteed crit out of stealth, and hit super hard, not to mention cost nothing. Wings cost a lot and with incoming LA weaves with skills, 4 attacks has them down super fast. Zos, leave this skill alone. You say you are all about uniqueness to races and classes these days. Wings are super unique to the magdk. If you make them so they only negate 50 percent of incoming damage, why would anyone ever run that skill. It becomes worthless. A shield negates all for an amount of time. This class has been gutted too many times. Not to mention PVE raids but that is a WHOLE other issue. You NEVER see magdks in raids anymore. So yea, please don't hurt the class more than necessary, or give it some ranged options. That magnifying glass is better spent elsewhere, especially into one of the main skills that wings actually helps against. It is a giant mistake to change anything to this skill. It is perfect where it is.

My intent here, from someone who plays this class all the time, is not to put any other classes down, again, I play them all. I just don't know how a decision like this gets made. Anyway, would love to hear what ZOS thinks, and hopefully the class REP, and of course, anyone else who wants to voice their opinions in this thread. Cheers (typos, blame my phone)

Greek_Hellspawn

Imo if they remove the reflect they should make it like wardens shimmering shield absorbing the projectile and giving ulti and resources back

Alucardo

Paragraphs.

frostz417

Good players will adjust and actually not cry about this nerf. This isn’t even a nerf as it is a change. Instead of reflecting 4 projectiles.
You take 50% damage mitigation to all projectiles with no cap.
This is especially effective for small scalers and 1vX players.
As I said before. Good players will adjust. Noobs will cry

KhajiitFelix

It's all Isshins fault.

Davadin

can we get a stam-version of wings?

satanio

@frostz417 It"s not about "noobs will cry, pros will adapt", it's about attractiveness and fun aspect of the class. ESO is a VIDEO game in the first place, not a matlab script (i know, combat = math, but if thats what players want why dont they play Legends?).
It was fun to see that projectiles bounce of me, as It's fun to roll and cloak to not get hit by them , I enjoy that as a player, even though that projectiles are only stupid bow LA.

If I would want to reflect something, I would be delegated to snb skill line. Stupid 50% reduction is just not as exciting as full reflect of 4 spells.

I see only one "good" thing in this change. Z'majas HA cant be reflected by wings now and with mentioned change, DK's could take not 30k, but 15k from its HA. But still, would rather reflect it to ZMAJAs ugly slimy snailface.

I don't know, don't like this "leaked" change.

Greek_Hellspawn

@satanio totally agree nerfs ruin fun and class identity

Integral1900

They seem to enjoy stripping the fun out of the DK

This is more of a general grumble about my favorite class but it reflects my fears of what the change to wings could mean.

I remember the first time I saw one, ploughing through a dark anchor in Storm Haven, back when soloing an anchor was a seriouse undertaking. It was so beautiful, swinging that huge burning blade, incinerating whole waves of foes or knocking them through the air. Wings out, wreathed in heat, spells ricocheting away. My little baby Templar was so out of her depth but when my health almost ran out, WHAM!!! in with the leap from the other side of the dolmen, throws me a heal without missing a beat, even let me pull the release pinion...

Now the stamina dk is just some poison dribbling nightblade knock of, even the magic version is missing something. I remember when I could shroud her in flames that would explode if the foe got to near, now I just get a flaming disco ball. I don’t care about the nerfs anymore, I’ve got used to it, I just wish they would stop meddling with the fun. A DK should be utterly spectacular, and from what I’ve heard I don’t hold out much hope of this being the case. It says a lot that my current DK is a former tank, now become a solo build, a hybrid with a greatsword and a flame staff, all I want is to look cool, swing those massive two handed heavy attacks and feel like a beast while foes go up in flames... that’s not to much to ask is it?

Apoxsee

Leave wings alone. Arguably sorcs and magnb have the biggest issues with this skill so buff them (kinda).

For a sorc, take crystal frags and make the proc a beam so it is non- reflectable.

For magnb, take that worthless skill conceal weapon and give it Minor Berzerk. This gives them a class skill spammable that can’t be reflected.

frostz417

satanio wrote: »

@frostz417 It"s not about "noobs will cry, pros will adapt", it's about attractiveness and fun aspect of the class. ESO is a VIDEO game in the first place, not a matlab script (i know, combat = math, but if thats what players want why dont they play Legends?).
It was fun to see that projectiles bounce of me, as It's fun to roll and cloak to not get hit by them , I enjoy that as a player, even though that projectiles are only stupid bow LA.

If I would want to reflect something, I would be delegated to snb skill line. Stupid 50% reduction is just not as exciting as full reflect of 4 spells.

I see only one "good" thing in this change. Z'majas HA cant be reflected by wings now and with mentioned change, DK's could take not 30k, but 15k from its HA. But still, would rather reflect it to ZMAJAs ugly slimy snailface.

I don't know, don't like this "leaked" change.

Attractiveness and fun aspect to the class? It can be as fun as it want but if it’s extrnely unbalanced and provides no counterplay then it doesn’t matter if it’s fun. It needs adjustment

Sanguinor2

frostz417 wrote: »

Attractiveness and fun aspect to the class? It can be as fun as it want but if it’s extrnely unbalanced and provides no counterplay then it doesn’t matter if it’s fun. It needs adjustment

It provides counterplay tho, you not wanting to use it or Options being too weak (melee magblade) is not wings fault.

satanio

frostz417 wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

@frostz417 It"s not about "noobs will cry, pros will adapt", it's about attractiveness and fun aspect of the class. ESO is a VIDEO game in the first place, not a matlab script (i know, combat = math, but if thats what players want why dont they play Legends?).
It was fun to see that projectiles bounce of me, as It's fun to roll and cloak to not get hit by them , I enjoy that as a player, even though that projectiles are only stupid bow LA.

If I would want to reflect something, I would be delegated to snb skill line. Stupid 50% reduction is just not as exciting as full reflect of 4 spells.

I see only one "good" thing in this change. Z'majas HA cant be reflected by wings now and with mentioned change, DK's could take not 30k, but 15k from its HA. But still, would rather reflect it to ZMAJAs ugly slimy snailface.

I don't know, don't like this "leaked" change.

Attractiveness and fun aspect to the class? It can be as fun as it want but if it’s extrnely unbalanced and provides no counterplay then it doesn’t matter if it’s fun. It needs adjustment

You are not right. Game must be balanced in such a way that the game stays fun. Otherwise people change playstyle (if there's any left), class (thanks for necro btw.) or leave... cause they play the game to have fun.

ruikkarikun

JumpmanLane

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. 4 projectiles for six seconds ain’t op. Geeze leave THAT skill alone.

brandonv516

Apoxsee wrote: »

Leave wings alone. Arguably sorcs and magnb have the biggest issues with this skill so buff them (kinda).

For a sorc, take crystal frags and make the proc a beam so it is non- reflectable.

For magnb, take that worthless skill conceal weapon and give it Minor Berzerk. This gives them a class skill spammable that can’t be reflected.

Right now I can run Concealed Weapon and get Minor Berserk through Merciless Resolve, and it's not desirable. I fail to see how moving the buff to that skill does anything to make more players use it.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Attractiveness and fun aspect to the class? It can be as fun as it want but if it’s extrnely unbalanced and provides no counterplay then it doesn’t matter if it’s fun. It needs adjustment

It provides counterplay tho, you not wanting to use it or Options being too weak (melee magblade) is not wings fault.

And yet it will make it healthier in PvP to now fight a DK on certain ranged classes.

TrinityBreaker

brandonv516 wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

Leave wings alone. Arguably sorcs and magnb have the biggest issues with this skill so buff them (kinda).

For a sorc, take crystal frags and make the proc a beam so it is non- reflectable.

For magnb, take that worthless skill conceal weapon and give it Minor Berzerk. This gives them a class skill spammable that can’t be reflected.

Right now I can run Concealed Weapon and get Minor Berserk through Merciless Resolve, and it's not desirable. I fail to see how moving the buff to that skill does anything to make more players use it.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Attractiveness and fun aspect to the class? It can be as fun as it want but if it’s extrnely unbalanced and provides no counterplay then it doesn’t matter if it’s fun. It needs adjustment

It provides counterplay tho, you not wanting to use it or Options being too weak (melee magblade) is not wings fault.

And yet it will make it healthier in PvP to now fight a DK on certain ranged classes.

So instead using the skills in game that are not reflectable, you are choosing to have an iconic skill gutted to suit your needs?

Flame_of_Hades

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Alright guys, just gonna kinda try to highlight some of the main points about this in a constructive way. This is coming from someone who has mained a magdk for 4 years now in both PVE and PVP. Keep in mind that I have 14 other dps toons that I also play regularly in both PVE but mostly PVP. Stamblade, Magblade, all of them. I am saying this so the reader doesn't assume I don't get other classes points of view. Now, that being said, ANY change to wings IMO is a terrible idea. The skill is fine/perfect where its at now. Remember when crit frag used to stun, then they made the OP changes to rune prison and everyone said they wish they just had the old crit frag back, this will turn into one of those situations. You have to remember that in cyrodiil, magdk is super slow. We do not fight at ranged because we don't have the ability to. For those that will quickly think, slot force pulse; no. Flame Lash is one of our main heals IF (big if) it doesn't get roll dodged by the second hit. For those that will say slot chains; maaayyyybe. However, real estate on a magdks bar is so tight that you would be dropping either another necessary offensive heal that you would always use, to a skill that you wouldn't always use. So there's that. Every class has a skill that is super annoying, but let's start with the most annoying (and most should agree accept the ones that are probably praising a wings nerf). Lethal Arrow. This skill has been complained about forever now. Rightly so. It requires zero skill to spam, and with a group timing their arrows together, its lights out with zero counter play. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! (Billy Mays voice) Guess what skill in the game was direct counterplay to that? You got it, WINGS. See where im going with this. Nevermind templars can spam BOL and heal themselves and group members, nevermind that BG's look like an episode of Game of Thrones where winter came because of the Ice Wardens of the North...but somehow...Wings needs a nerf. It's silly. Zos has already nerfed the skill once and it is in a perfect place. Before all the magblades chime in, I want to say that you all are the only ones that should have the biggest gripe. But lets face it, your gripe extends way past wings. Every skill in the game nearly pulls you out of cloak, and you don't have a burst heal unless you wanna run combat prayer, but yea : / And as a DK that brings us back into ranged. If we lose wings, you all, like sorcs, can stand 28 meters a way and we can do what, now....take 50 percent less damage from ranged attacks? Plz. Someone do some quick math on 50 percent damage reduction from assassins will...hmmmm...a lot. Nevermind skills like surprise attack that stun out of stealth, apply major fracture, guaranteed crit out of stealth, and hit super hard, not to mention cost nothing. Wings cost a lot and with incoming LA weaves with skills, 4 attacks has them down super fast. Zos, leave this skill alone. You say you are all about uniqueness to races and classes these days. Wings are super unique to the magdk. If you make them so they only negate 50 percent of incoming damage, why would anyone ever run that skill. It becomes worthless. A shield negates all for an amount of time. This class has been gutted too many times. Not to mention PVE raids but that is a WHOLE other issue. You NEVER see magdks in raids anymore. So yea, please don't hurt the class more than necessary, or give it some ranged options. That magnifying glass is better spent elsewhere, especially into one of the main skills that wings actually helps against. It is a giant mistake to change anything to this skill. It is perfect where it is.

My intent here, from someone who plays this class all the time, is not to put any other classes down, again, I play them all. I just don't know how a decision like this gets made. Anyway, would love to hear what ZOS thinks, and hopefully the class REP, and of course, anyone else who wants to voice their opinions in this thread. Cheers (typos, blame my phone)

This wings change is a BUFF. instead of 4 projectiles (less than a half second when running from a zerg spamming light attacks) we get 50% damage reduction on INFINITE projectiles. Granted, its a shallow knockoff of what wings was at launch, but....

Anyway, for small scall and 1vx, this makes the skill much more useful, and also massively lowers the total cost of the skill (6 seconds = 6 casts (when running from zerg) = 3.8*6 = 22.8k magicka. 6 seconds = 1 cast = 3.8*1 = 3.8k magicka)

All that is lost is the "I win" button in 1v1s, which is VERY annoying from the other side of the fight.

Keep in mind, snipe is being nerfed at the same time.

brandonv516

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

Leave wings alone. Arguably sorcs and magnb have the biggest issues with this skill so buff them (kinda).

For a sorc, take crystal frags and make the proc a beam so it is non- reflectable.

For magnb, take that worthless skill conceal weapon and give it Minor Berzerk. This gives them a class skill spammable that can’t be reflected.

Right now I can run Concealed Weapon and get Minor Berserk through Merciless Resolve, and it's not desirable. I fail to see how moving the buff to that skill does anything to make more players use it.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Attractiveness and fun aspect to the class? It can be as fun as it want but if it’s extrnely unbalanced and provides no counterplay then it doesn’t matter if it’s fun. It needs adjustment

It provides counterplay tho, you not wanting to use it or Options being too weak (melee magblade) is not wings fault.

And yet it will make it healthier in PvP to now fight a DK on certain ranged classes.

So instead using the skills in game that are not reflectable, you are choosing to have an iconic skill gutted to suit your needs?

I am not choosing anything. I'm celebrating the developers choice to create balance. It's not how I would have done it but it should be interesting.

Greek_Hellspawn

Guys necro's spammable is a projectile so wings must be nerfed 😁😁

helios777

Mag DK is unlike any other class in game right now. With each patch that gets implemented the Mag DK playstyle gets changed dramatically. I’ve learned from playing and maining Mag DK EVERY PATCH is that you can never have the perfect solid build. Everything changes from patch to patch unlike stamden, Stamblade or Magsorc. It seems that ZoS hasn’t found the identity they have in mind for Mag DK yet which confuses me since they’ve had 5 years to get this down.

Fvh09NL

The way I see it (I main magdk and I also play sorc in pvp with destructive reach so I know how annoying wings can be) atm, as a dk you have to hold up wings, sacrificing damage for protection, or get huge damage on you. Range builds actually have to pay attention and not simply keep on spamming their attacks, but have to wait for the right moment.

When this change happens, range builds will not even care about wings anymore and keep the pressure up; however, a dk might be better of attacking a player to put him/her under pressure, because they are not likely to keep up with the damage if they don't (wings costs a lot). This is of course very hard if the ranged build can keep the distance. Outside of 1vX this is certainly a nerf.

Imo, wings could maybe be adjusted that it reflects projectiles from large distances, but only lowers damage from nearby, which is a compromise. It makes the dk protected from ranged builds, but ranged builds could do damage if they close the gap themselves (risk/reward). Fighting should be adjusting to different situations, not being able to do the same to everyone.

Xvorg

Erase the class, give it to Bethesda, so TES VI is the story of the last Akaviri Dragonguard teaching you the forgotten techniques of the so called "Dragonknights".

And that could imply no *** poison skills.

Half the server would buy that game.

md3788

Where did this rumor come from, and where can I find out more information about it?

Sanguinor2

helios777 wrote: »

Mag DK is unlike any other class in game right now. With each patch that gets implemented the Mag DK playstyle gets changed dramatically. I’ve learned from playing and maining Mag DK EVERY PATCH is that you can never have the perfect solid build. Everything changes from patch to patch unlike stamden, Stamblade or Magsorc. It seems that ZoS hasn’t found the identity they have in mind for Mag DK yet which confuses me since they’ve had 5 years to get this down.

My personal Theory for the continous magdk nerfs except for the one patch where they added snare immunity and 2 seconds to wings is that magdk still has to repent for pre 1.5 .

irstarkey57

I hear you man, but this is basically becoming a half effective shield. Why not just run harness magicka and negate all damage at that point? Obviously I get the higher cost but a staple skill that had reflect for 5 years now turning into this is just sad I think. But who knows, you may be right.

irstarkey57

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Alright guys, just gonna kinda try to highlight some of the main points about this in a constructive way. This is coming from someone who has mained a magdk for 4 years now in both PVE and PVP. Keep in mind that I have 14 other dps toons that I also play regularly in both PVE but mostly PVP. Stamblade, Magblade, all of them. I am saying this so the reader doesn't assume I don't get other classes points of view. Now, that being said, ANY change to wings IMO is a terrible idea. The skill is fine/perfect where its at now. Remember when crit frag used to stun, then they made the OP changes to rune prison and everyone said they wish they just had the old crit frag back, this will turn into one of those situations. You have to remember that in cyrodiil, magdk is super slow. We do not fight at ranged because we don't have the ability to. For those that will quickly think, slot force pulse; no. Flame Lash is one of our main heals IF (big if) it doesn't get roll dodged by the second hit. For those that will say slot chains; maaayyyybe. However, real estate on a magdks bar is so tight that you would be dropping either another necessary offensive heal that you would always use, to a skill that you wouldn't always use. So there's that. Every class has a skill that is super annoying, but let's start with the most annoying (and most should agree accept the ones that are probably praising a wings nerf). Lethal Arrow. This skill has been complained about forever now. Rightly so. It requires zero skill to spam, and with a group timing their arrows together, its lights out with zero counter play. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! (Billy Mays voice) Guess what skill in the game was direct counterplay to that? You got it, WINGS. See where im going with this. Nevermind templars can spam BOL and heal themselves and group members, nevermind that BG's look like an episode of Game of Thrones where winter came because of the Ice Wardens of the North...but somehow...Wings needs a nerf. It's silly. Zos has already nerfed the skill once and it is in a perfect place. Before all the magblades chime in, I want to say that you all are the only ones that should have the biggest gripe. But lets face it, your gripe extends way past wings. Every skill in the game nearly pulls you out of cloak, and you don't have a burst heal unless you wanna run combat prayer, but yea : / And as a DK that brings us back into ranged. If we lose wings, you all, like sorcs, can stand 28 meters a way and we can do what, now....take 50 percent less damage from ranged attacks? Plz. Someone do some quick math on 50 percent damage reduction from assassins will...hmmmm...a lot. Nevermind skills like surprise attack that stun out of stealth, apply major fracture, guaranteed crit out of stealth, and hit super hard, not to mention cost nothing. Wings cost a lot and with incoming LA weaves with skills, 4 attacks has them down super fast. Zos, leave this skill alone. You say you are all about uniqueness to races and classes these days. Wings are super unique to the magdk. If you make them so they only negate 50 percent of incoming damage, why would anyone ever run that skill. It becomes worthless. A shield negates all for an amount of time. This class has been gutted too many times. Not to mention PVE raids but that is a WHOLE other issue. You NEVER see magdks in raids anymore. So yea, please don't hurt the class more than necessary, or give it some ranged options. That magnifying glass is better spent elsewhere, especially into one of the main skills that wings actually helps against. It is a giant mistake to change anything to this skill. It is perfect where it is.

My intent here, from someone who plays this class all the time, is not to put any other classes down, again, I play them all. I just don't know how a decision like this gets made. Anyway, would love to hear what ZOS thinks, and hopefully the class REP, and of course, anyone else who wants to voice their opinions in this thread. Cheers (typos, blame my phone)

This wings change is a BUFF. instead of 4 projectiles (less than a half second when running from a zerg spamming light attacks) we get 50% damage reduction on INFINITE projectiles. Granted, its a shallow knockoff of what wings was at launch, but....

Anyway, for small scall and 1vx, this makes the skill much more useful, and also massively lowers the total cost of the skill (6 seconds = 6 casts (when running from zerg) = 3.8*6 = 22.8k magicka. 6 seconds = 1 cast = 3.8*1 = 3.8k magicka)

All that is lost is the "I win" button in 1v1s, which is VERY annoying from the other side of the fight.

Keep in mind, snipe is being nerfed at the same time.

I hear you man, but this is basically becoming a half effective shield. Why not just run harness magicka and negate all damage at that point? Obviously I get the higher cost but a staple skill that had reflect for 5 years now turning into this is just sad I think. But who knows, you may be right.

irstarkey57

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

helios777 wrote: »

Mag DK is unlike any other class in game right now. With each patch that gets implemented the Mag DK playstyle gets changed dramatically. I’ve learned from playing and maining Mag DK EVERY PATCH is that you can never have the perfect solid build. Everything changes from patch to patch unlike stamden, Stamblade or Magsorc. It seems that ZoS hasn’t found the identity they have in mind for Mag DK yet which confuses me since they’ve had 5 years to get this down.

My personal Theory for the continous magdk nerfs except for the one patch where they added snare immunity and 2 seconds to wings is that magdk still has to repent for pre 1.5 .

Yea I mean everyone says that but good lord, 4 years seems to be enough. It’s completely unviable in trials. They run 8 NB’s ffs. Should be getting buffs, not nerfs.

irstarkey57

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Guys necro's spammable is a projectile so wings must be nerfed 😁😁

Totally agree with this. I face palmed after making my post because I forgot one of my main points. GG

Apoxsee

brandonv516

Your do know that they are removing berserk from resolve, right? By giving it to this morph the class is able to have this buff retain on at least one of the styles of play.

Toc de Malsvi

irstarkey57 wrote: »

I hear you man, but this is basically becoming a half effective shield. Why not just run harness magicka and negate all damage at that point? Obviously I get the higher cost but a staple skill that had reflect for 5 years now turning into this is just sad I think. But who knows, you may be right.

I don't think you are really considering how 50% mitigation scales. Harness may be comparable versus one target to 50% mitigation(provided they are using projectiles), but it Harness is terribad in comparison when 2 or more targets are shooting you.

50% mitigation is still really good, and way better the more targets are shooting you. The only real argument is that there are not enough projectile builds in the game. For this I could see giving the skill at least a bump in duration if not more secondary effects.

This is the primary issue with wings to begin with, more reflects means less people run projectiles, which means wings become useless. More projectiles and more people run wings, which then leads back to the first option and wings are useless again. Wings does not need reflect, wings NEEDS more utility for mag outside of mitigation from projectiles. Snare removal was a step in the right direction.