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Why is it THE minion class...has no real minion?
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Are these programmed and automated though or under direct control of someone?
I think in every TES game I have played Necromancers have attacked me with one or two undead that fall apart at some point.You guys are....Nevermind.
You realize your arguments are basically like saying. "We can't have a sorcerer with magic! That would be boring! Besides, we have other classes with magic so we can't do that. We can just have the sorcerer face tank instead."
It makes no sense. The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM. You take that away and they are not a necromancer anymore. I don't care that other classes can have a summon. That just means that Necros need the option to have more summons.
Sigh.
This class seems somewhat fitting with how other TES titles have represented the Necromancer. It could be ZOS also wants to go with an "unstable" Necromancy type supported by temporary pets.
End of the day it's most likely because they wanted to make the class play and feel different, which I feel is a nice change.
Also traditional pets are horrible in ESO, they have loads of issues which still haven't truly been sorted out, do we want another case like the Warden where they release a class with pets and everyone doesn't bother with them.
I would have to disagree if you look at the dark brotherhood. They have permanent skeletal minions that guard thier sanctuary
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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Vandark✭✭✭You can also call the new Class "Death Knight" if u want, but even the death Knight in WoW had more of a Necromancer than this class. It´s maybe a Warlock, not more or less. The Design is as a poor as the Witch doctor in Diablo 3. A class that should stand for something, but it doesnt.
"Necromancy (/ˈnɛkrəmænsi/) is a practice of magic involving communication with the dead – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily..."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy
But sure, call it how you want. ZOS should make Sorc 2.0 and call it Barbarian because everyone can hold Swords in this game *facepalm*
And i will not start to talk about the Idea of Zos of implenting mass player resurrection. Its a broken skill if it stays. This will break PvP totally.
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Ogou✭✭✭✭✭You can also call the new Class "Death Knight" if u want, but even the death Knight in WoW had more of a Necromancer than this class. It´s maybe a Warlock, not more or less. The Design is as a poor as the Witch doctor in Diablo 3. A class that should stand for something, but it doesnt.
"Necromancy (/ˈnɛkrəmænsi/) is a practice of magic involving communication with the dead – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily..."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy
But sure, call it how you want. ZOS should make Sorc 2.0 and call it Barbarian because everyone can hold Swords in this game *facepalm*
And i will not start to talk about the Idea of Zos of implenting mass player resurrection. Its a broken skill if it stays. This will break PvP totally.
Wait. How the ESO necromancer not a necromancer by the definition you just posted?6 -
Wrathmane✭✭✭Shackles of convention? The biggest villain in this game (other than a god) is a Necromancer who summons vast armies of the dead. It is not like this is a made up concept. Mannimarko is pretty much a template.
When does Mannimarco summon a vast army? Its been a while since I played the main story line but I really don't remember him having a vast army of undead at his disposal...... he has the worm cult... other necromancers who summon undead for you to smash...... I don't ever remember him leading an army at any point in the game.Sha'ria Wrathmane - Belora Wrathmane - Leora WrathmaneFormer Head of Recruitment for Vokundein1 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »Also beside skyrim, is permanant undead was a thing ?
I can't remember anything that you could revive and last forever outside of skyrim.
Permanent is relative.
You could thrall something or someone until it was killed, but it wasn't immortal.
Boring actually... all that groaning...
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Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Believe me, it's far better to have a duration based summon vs having to double-bar a combat pet. It's more room to slot skills unlike Sorcerer's pet and Warden's Bear ultimate which make you sacrifice extra slots to use them.2 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Because not every game has to have the necromancer be the exact same thing? Also how would they be any different from sorcs or wardens if they were just another pet class?
By this "logic" what differentiates necromancers from nightblades, who also have a temporary pet?The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM.
More to the point is players' experience of them in the much more successful single player Elder Scrolls games.
The only necromancy was summoning. This was an opportunity for ESO to appeal to the much bigger ES audience.
I understand the difficulty of perma summons in relation to necromancy being illegal and players running around with them in towns. But temporary pets weren't the only possible solution and I don't think they were the right one.
eg. a common ability in other games for necromancers or other summoning classes is sacrificing minions for some particular benefit - eg. health or buff. Give that to necromancers and make it their responsibility to have it slotted and use it before riding into or teleporting to towns. Or suffer the crime penalty.0 -
Ogou✭✭✭✭✭
The fact that necromancer pets leave a corp after they die which can be used to buff the necromancer spells. You know the whole mastery over life and death thing that necromancers are known for?The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM.
More to the point is players' experience of them in the much more successful single player Elder Scrolls games.
The only necromancy was summoning. This was an opportunity for ESO to appeal to the much bigger ES audience.
I understand the difficulty of perma summons in relation to necromancy being illegal and players running around with them in towns. But temporary pets weren't the only possible solution and I don't think they were the right one.
eg. a common ability in other games for necromancers or other summoning classes is sacrificing minions for some particular benefit - eg. health or buff. Give that to necromancers and make it their responsibility to have it slotted and use it before riding into or teleporting to towns. Or suffer the crime penalty.
You mean the single player games where all summons were temporary, except for the Skyrim master Conjuration spells (which actually were on a really long timer)?
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »I'm glad they are not permanent. Who wants to have to double bar pets and lose space for other skills? Not I. Leave that bs to Sorc.
And warden.... It's truly annoying after playing hunters in WoW and RIFT.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You can also call the new Class "Death Knight" if u want, but even the death Knight in WoW had more of a Necromancer than this class. It´s maybe a Warlock, not more or less. The Design is as a poor as the Witch doctor in Diablo 3. A class that should stand for something, but it doesnt.
"Necromancy (/ˈnɛkrəmænsi/) is a practice of magic involving communication with the dead – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily..."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy
But sure, call it how you want. ZOS should make Sorc 2.0 and call it Barbarian because everyone can hold Swords in this game *facepalm*
And i will not start to talk about the Idea of Zos of implenting mass player resurrection. Its a broken skill if it stays. This will break PvP totally.
Please, stop Comparing ESO to any Blizzard game for Talos' Sake!!! If you like so much those games, go and play them.
No Necromancy in any TES game has ever given permanent pets, except Dead Thrall in Skyrim and that's the 5th game (which is setts 1000 after this one)
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Used the wrong method with the wrong technique3 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But NBs have a temp pet only with certain armor sets, I think? So that's even out of the current realm of logic.... I mean, I have a couple of NBs decked out in Defiler's.... but that's only those couple. AFAIK (and really, I don't KNOW a lot yet) NBs don't have "combat pets" unless wearing a set that provides it as 5/5....0 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would have MUCH preferred necro be able to summon small swarms of weaker zombies than one or 2 stronger ones. having only like 2-3 summons is lame.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »But NBs have a temp pet only with certain armor sets, I think? So that's even out of the current realm of logic.... I mean, I have a couple of NBs decked out in Defiler's.... but that's only those couple. AFAIK (and really, I don't KNOW a lot yet) NBs don't have "combat pets" unless wearing a set that provides it as 5/5....
The shadows, I think. Froma. Skill.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »But NBs have a temp pet only with certain armor sets, I think? So that's even out of the current realm of logic.... I mean, I have a couple of NBs decked out in Defiler's.... but that's only those couple. AFAIK (and really, I don't KNOW a lot yet) NBs don't have "combat pets" unless wearing a set that provides it as 5/5....
The shadows, I think. Froma. Skill.
Must not have NBs at a level to see it then.... Lotsa stuff I don't know! Thanks!0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »But NBs have a temp pet only with certain armor sets, I think? So that's even out of the current realm of logic.... I mean, I have a couple of NBs decked out in Defiler's.... but that's only those couple. AFAIK (and really, I don't KNOW a lot yet) NBs don't have "combat pets" unless wearing a set that provides it as 5/5....
The shadows, I think. Froma. Skill.
Must not have NBs at a level to see it then.... Lotsa stuff I don't know! Thanks!
Its called shadow image and its semi permanent. But frankly even mentioning it in this discussion is diving into nonsense semantics since its a shadow of the caster and the spell itslef belongs to the school of illusion magic, not conjuration. Ive already given this too much energy. Sigh......3 -
Vandril✭✭✭✭It is a bit odd but I can see why, still, it's strange when you realize that Necromancer's won't benefit from Necropotence, a set basically named after them.
Or, maybe they will, but in the same way that Nightblades can.
Almost definitely will just like Nightblades can. It would be completely arbitrary to not include all those temporary pets as...temporary PETS.0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The fact that necromancer pets leave a corp after they die which can be used to buff the necromancer spells. You know the whole mastery over life and death thing that necromancers are known for?
So again, by your "logic", if permanent pets also left a corpse for necromancers to use, they would be different from warden and sorc pets, and ok.
On behalf of the OP I thank you for your vigorous and unreserved support!You mean the single player games where all summons were temporary, except for the Skyrim master Conjuration spells (which actually were on a really long timer)?
a) You're wrong and b) you say "except for Skyrim" as if it wasn't THE most popular of the Elder Scrolls single player games. A phenomenal best seller still being played by many.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Useful_Enchantments#Summon_Creature_on_Self0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭From all the games i played the Guild Wars 1 necro was the closest to the real necromancer. Many weak, and short term pets with a few stronger one. You clean a group of enemies, then raise a small army, that cost a bunch of max. magicka to reserve, then use them in cleaning the next group. In return however the necro would have weaker, than usual AOE potential. Also once a corpse used for revival other necros can't use it.
Pro: He would be stronger, if the group moves quickly, and there are enemies to kill.
Con: If there is nothing to revive, then it would be a weaker against group of enemies.
Other playstyles still available. So if you know that there will be nothing to revive, then just switch out those skills.
They wouldn't break your UI, because it is unlikely that 10 necro has 10 pet each on the same time. That would mean, that they killed 100 enemy in 16 second.0 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭The best Necro pet class hands down is in Everquest.
I played a Shadowknight in EQ1 (which had a perma pet) but in EQ2 the Shadowknight lost his pet, I didn't miss it.
I am really excited to maybe bring back my Shadowknight into ESO but I fear I will miss my Scorcerer that I have played since day one .... dilemma!
Be safe0 -
Madrax573✭✭✭I loved the necro from GW1. Best Necro ever created IMO...I'm a bomb technician. If you see me running, try to keep up!1 -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find the aggressive temporary summons will make the class both versatile and strong.
And look at it this way, Necromancy in ESO is not a perfect art of summoning. It's the enforced thralling of spirits to skeletons and Atronachs.
You use them with reckless abandon to injure/destroy, heal or hold off enemies. Think of how Mannimarco uses his summons in the game. He summons them to try and slow down or "kill" the Vestige. They were not permanent summons he took around with him.Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!0 -
Ogou✭✭✭✭✭The fact that necromancer pets leave a corp after they die which can be used to buff the necromancer spells. You know the whole mastery over life and death thing that necromancers are known for?
So again, by your "logic", if permanent pets also left a corpse for necromancers to use, they would be different from warden and sorc pets, and ok.
On behalf of the OP I thank you for your vigorous and unreserved support!
On paper, yes. But what would be the point of that? If the corpse benefits are too strong we'd end up with people just regularly killing their pets and resummoning them so you'd have the same situation as right now but with the extra hassle of having to killing your pets yourself. If the benefits arr not that then you just end up with pets never dying and necros are just sorc 2.0 (just look at the Rebate passive for an example).
No need to thank me. It is my pleasure.
You mean the single player games where all summons were temporary, except for the Skyrim master Conjuration spells (which actually were on a really long timer)?
a) You're wrong and b) you say "except for Skyrim" as if it wasn't THE most popular of the Elder Scrolls single player games. A phenomenal best seller still being played by many.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Useful_Enchantments#Summon_Creature_on_Self
A) I am not. The only way to get permanent summons in Morrowind was through enchanting. That's like saying that since, in Skyrim, you could make your spells cost nothing with reduce cost enchants then you should be able to cast spells at no cost in ESO.
B ) What does Skyrim's popularity have to do with this discussion?
C) I said "except for the Skyrim master Conjuration spells". You're making it sound like I was invalidating a whole game when I was just showing that what you're trying to pass as a rule was more of an exception.
D) Besides, your entire argument is based on the idea that because something was done in a certain way in the single player games it should be done in the same way in ESO. You're forgetting that every single player game was also very different from it's predecessor and ESO is no different (eheh).Edited by Ogou on April 5, 2019 2:48PM0 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While so far, I do like what i have seen for ESO's necro. If I were to add more pets/minions to dedicate a ability or two to controlling more undead, I feel it needs to be verity baked into the passives. While, yes still keeping it the same temporary minions and current skills and morphs - Maybe Increase duration for Archer/Mage/Mender to 20-to-30 seconds though (this is just wishful thinking).
My opinion on how the Passives should read for Grave Lord.
Endless Blight: When Damaging an enemy with one of your Necromancer abilities, you have a 5/10% chance summon a Blighted Zombie at the enemy's location to shamble forward; this ability can stack up to 5 times. (Blighted Zombies last for 5 seconds and start to quickly decay, leaving behind a trail of disease, dealing 892 damage to all enemies in a 8x12 radius for 3 seconds).
Death Knell: Your critical strike chance against enemies under 33% health have a 6% for each Grave Lord ability slotted to call forth clawing skeleton hands from the ground to deal 635 damage every 1 second for 6 seconds damaging all enemies in a 3x5 meter radius around the target. This has a 6 second cool down.
Bonus Chance: a 1% chance to summon a skeletal warrior to preform a devastating attack against any enemy below 10% health dealing 475% equal to the enemy's max health (has a 3min cool down)
Grim Tome: While Archer/Mage (or Mender) ability is active, your spell and physical penetration are increased by X, while increasing your chance and the number of Blighted Zombies to be summoned by 3.
Rapid Rot: Increases your all damage over time abilities and all active minion damage done by X%0 -
hope0burns✭✭✭I'd say the biggest reason that you don't get perms is because perms teleport with you. You go wandering into town or just anywhere along the road near a guard with them by accident and you'd be instantly assailed by a guard because "OmG NeCrO MaGiK IlLeGaL"
Now why you don't get more temporary ones? Really good question.
Seems weird to me that the necromancer doesn't raise more undead, whether to just explode them, have them cast things, or whatever for the duration of combat. Like Necro spells in other ES games only seem to last about as long as they'd expect combat to last, which makes sense. Don't really want skeletons or w/e sticking around after they're needed.
In many ways I wish the Warden bear was temporary. I hate having that stupid thing following me around, but it adds so much to dps that I'm loathe to get rid of it so I have to just go into my character sheet constantly to dismiss it. I'd rather it just lasted as long as combat or something.
Anyway, does it suck that the minion class isn't very miniony? Yeah. But throwing ghosts or a horde of bone skeevers or the like at things just sounds like fun, and we can't have that. Fun isn't PvP balance approved.
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Deter1UK✭✭✭✭✭logarifmik wrote: »
@Zenzuki, my apologies. I've corrected the mistake. In my post I spoke about combat aspect of pets. Regarding the pets-in-city problem I agree with you. Something must be done about that. I playing a Sorcerer with summons a lot, and always unsummon pets in the city, but I understand why some Sorcerers and Wardens around don't. The way it's implemented in the game is quite unhandy. By the way, pets chasing the mount riding master is an idiotic spectacle as well. Why there is no autounsummon implemented in such occasion so far I do not know.@logarifmik You're qouting "Fur_like_snow" mate... not me!
But to that.... been in bank lately? guild trader? Gotta love them flappy birds all up your face the whole time while.
Permanent means they never get put away... EVER!
Theres a tiny add-on which will unsummon pets bound to a key of your choice - I use it all the time.0