Why is it THE minion class...has no real minion?

Izariel

Was I the only one disappointed that the necromancer class has not even one permanent/semi permanent minion? The longest one is 16 seconds (I think) and that is only one of 2...I mean, even the sorcerer has several options for permanent minions...why not he necromancer? Why is having multiple minions (skeletons) THE MOST ICONIC THING FOR WHICH NECROS ARE KNOWN not even an option?

I am so disappointed. Not even sure if this class is worth it anymore.

Ogou

Because not every game has to have the necromancer be the exact same thing? Also how would they be any different from sorcs or wardens if they were just another pet class?

starkerealm

Because the necromancer is about manipulating souls? And if they simply had toggled summons, they'd just be a sorc in their "dark and edgy," high-schooler phase?

david_m_18b16_ESO

Cuz Sorc was the Pet class, then summerset came and they added a pet class, if the second new class had pet it would have been stupid.

Kinda like if the 2 new class had invis skill or had wings, or jab.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Because sorcerer and warden are already pet class we dont need a 3rd one and that way necro is not a sorc skin

Izariel

You guys are....Nevermind.

You realize your arguments are basically like saying. "We can't have a sorcerer with magic! That would be boring! Besides, we have other classes with magic so we can't do that. We can just have the sorcerer face tank instead."

It makes no sense. The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM. You take that away and they are not a necromancer anymore. I don't care that other classes can have a summon. That just means that Necros need the option to have more summons.

Sigh.

If anything, they have to rename this class to a warlock, because it is NOT a necromancer the way that it stands.

starkerealm

Except, of course, the Necromancer will be raising the dead. A great many of them in fact. The critical thing is, the Necromancer's pets are entirely disposable. You're not getting attached to a skeleton you just summoned. You're throwing it at your foes with wild abandon.

Dagoth_Rac

I was not disappointed by lack of permanent minions. I was hoping for more temporary minions, though! I would have loved a Necromancer raising up a dozen skeletons and zombies and sending them into battle. Even if those minions were really squishy and did not last long. That would have been neat, although I can see it being an issue for performance if a solo player could command their own zerg.

Turelus

Izariel wrote: »

You guys are....Nevermind.

You realize your arguments are basically like saying. "We can't have a sorcerer with magic! That would be boring! Besides, we have other classes with magic so we can't do that. We can just have the sorcerer face tank instead."

It makes no sense. The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM. You take that away and they are not a necromancer anymore. I don't care that other classes can have a summon. That just means that Necros need the option to have more summons.

Sigh.

I think in every TES game I have played Necromancers have attacked me with one or two undead that fall apart at some point.
This class seems somewhat fitting with how other TES titles have represented the Necromancer. It could be ZOS also wants to go with an "unstable" Necromancy type supported by temporary pets.

End of the day it's most likely because they wanted to make the class play and feel different, which I feel is a nice change.
Also traditional pets are horrible in ESO, they have loads of issues which still haven't truly been sorted out, do we want another case like the Warden where they release a class with pets and everyone doesn't bother with them.

srfrogg23

Izariel wrote: »

Was I the only one disappointed that the necromancer class has not even one permanent/semi permanent minion? The longest one is 16 seconds (I think) and that is only one of 2...I mean, even the sorcerer has several options for permanent minions...why not he necromancer? Why is having multiple minions (skeletons) THE MOST ICONIC THING FOR WHICH NECROS ARE KNOWN not even an option?

I am so disappointed. Not even sure if this class is worth it anymore.

You're operating under the assumption that because Necromancers in other games have permanent pets, then they should also have that in ESO too. Considering Necromancers are completely fictional, they can fulfill ANY criteria that the developers choose for their product.

That being said, I dont recall any TES game ever having permanent pets for Necromancers. They always raise them or summon them temporarily during fights, usually only when there are corpses nearby. This iteration of the Necromancer seems to be right in line with previous TES games.

Izariel

Turelus wrote: »

Izariel wrote: »

You guys are....Nevermind.

You realize your arguments are basically like saying. "We can't have a sorcerer with magic! That would be boring! Besides, we have other classes with magic so we can't do that. We can just have the sorcerer face tank instead."

It makes no sense. The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM. You take that away and they are not a necromancer anymore. I don't care that other classes can have a summon. That just means that Necros need the option to have more summons.

Sigh.

I think in every TES game I have played Necromancers have attacked me with one or two undead that fall apart at some point.
This class seems somewhat fitting with how other TES titles have represented the Necromancer. It could be ZOS also wants to go with an "unstable" Necromancy type supported by temporary pets.

End of the day it's most likely because they wanted to make the class play and feel different, which I feel is a nice change.
Also traditional pets are horrible in ESO, they have loads of issues which still haven't truly been sorted out, do we want another case like the Warden where they release a class with pets and everyone doesn't bother with them.

I am alright with temporary "PETS". That is not even possible here though. The dps tree literally has one summon spell which lasts for a few seconds and the healing tree has one summon spell that lasts a few seconds. If it has to be temporary...fine, but at least give us more than ONE.

Also, I would have loved a golem for tanking for the dps tree. Just saying.

Undefwun

My main reason I am happy (so far, lets actually see how it actually plays) about this is PvP, idgaf about lore or RP.

We already have the 2 playstyles currently vying for biggest coward award in pvp, 4 pet zoo sorcs and Pack Leader WWs.

Did we really need 2 more classes (stamcro and magcro) which are obviously gonna be massive at launch messing up every BG for months with more permanent summons.

Other than that, it's just their interpretation of a Necromancer, that's fine. The same way they put their spin on dragons. It is what it is.

Robo_Hobo

It is a bit odd but I can see why, still, it's strange when you realize that Necromancer's won't benefit from Necropotence, a set basically named after them.

Or, maybe they will, but in the same way that Nightblades can.

ezio45

give necro twilight, scamp and atro

and give sorc goliath, an actual heal and shock tether

Ogou

Izariel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Izariel wrote: »

You guys are....Nevermind.

You realize your arguments are basically like saying. "We can't have a sorcerer with magic! That would be boring! Besides, we have other classes with magic so we can't do that. We can just have the sorcerer face tank instead."

It makes no sense. The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM. You take that away and they are not a necromancer anymore. I don't care that other classes can have a summon. That just means that Necros need the option to have more summons.

Sigh.

I think in every TES game I have played Necromancers have attacked me with one or two undead that fall apart at some point.
This class seems somewhat fitting with how other TES titles have represented the Necromancer. It could be ZOS also wants to go with an "unstable" Necromancy type supported by temporary pets.

End of the day it's most likely because they wanted to make the class play and feel different, which I feel is a nice change.
Also traditional pets are horrible in ESO, they have loads of issues which still haven't truly been sorted out, do we want another case like the Warden where they release a class with pets and everyone doesn't bother with them.

I am alright with temporary "PETS". That is not even possible here though. The dps tree literally has one summon spell which lasts for a few seconds and the healing tree has one summon spell that lasts a few seconds. If it has to be temporary...fine, but at least give us more than ONE.

Also, I would have loved a golem for tanking for the dps tree. Just saying.

The DPS tree has 2, the bomber and the mage plus the ult. The healer tree has one ( the mender). That's one more than Sorcs have.

Turelus

Izariel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Izariel wrote: »

You guys are....Nevermind.

You realize your arguments are basically like saying. "We can't have a sorcerer with magic! That would be boring! Besides, we have other classes with magic so we can't do that. We can just have the sorcerer face tank instead."

It makes no sense. The necromancer is a raiser of the dead. That is THE SINGLE MOST ICONIC THING ABOUT THEM. You take that away and they are not a necromancer anymore. I don't care that other classes can have a summon. That just means that Necros need the option to have more summons.

Sigh.

I think in every TES game I have played Necromancers have attacked me with one or two undead that fall apart at some point.
This class seems somewhat fitting with how other TES titles have represented the Necromancer. It could be ZOS also wants to go with an "unstable" Necromancy type supported by temporary pets.

End of the day it's most likely because they wanted to make the class play and feel different, which I feel is a nice change.
Also traditional pets are horrible in ESO, they have loads of issues which still haven't truly been sorted out, do we want another case like the Warden where they release a class with pets and everyone doesn't bother with them.

I am alright with temporary "PETS". That is not even possible here though. The dps tree literally has one summon spell which lasts for a few seconds and the healing tree has one summon spell that lasts a few seconds. If it has to be temporary...fine, but at least give us more than ONE.

Also, I would have loved a golem for tanking for the dps tree. Just saying.

It has three. You can have the wait, mage/archer and exploding skeleton up at the same time.

starkerealm

srfrogg23 wrote: »

That being said, I dont recall any TES game ever having permanent pets for Necromancers.

Skyrim has one spell. Undead Thrall. Though, technically, the spell has a duration. It works out to be a couple weeks, real-time, but it is, functionally, permanent. (Until something smears your thrall across the walls of a tomb like a fistful of tomato sauce in the hands of a toddler.)

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

Because the necromancer is about manipulating souls? And if they simply had toggled summons, they'd just be a sorc in their "dark and edgy," high-schooler phase?

And my thought was we do not need another sorc. It is good to have classes having very different feels.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

In TES lore, permanent undead summons can only be conjured by the most powerful of wizards. It requires a huge amount of magickal talent to be able to truly cheat death.

For the vast majority of necromancers, their summons can expect to be risen for not long at all. Hours, at best.

This is even hinted at during the main quest of Skyrim, when the Dovahkiin is sent to retrieve the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller by the Greybeards.

One of the necromancers at the beginning of the dungeon says to his colleague along the lines of "These thralls grow less intelligent each time you raise them." She then responds with "As long as they can swing a pickaxe, they're as smart as we need them to be."

Long story short, necromancers see their thralls as tools, a means to an end. The less maintenance needed, the better.

NordSwordnBoard

The dead are lazy, and want to go back to resting in peace after being woken to do stuff.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

OP throw off the shackles of convention and leave your necro baggage in storage, about what you've experienced in other games, books, etc. Wait until you give it a try before melting down about a class in ESO that hasn't even been rolled out yet. I, for one, welcome a fresh take on classes and give them a try before I bang my gavel and declare them not for me.

Imperial_Voice

Because they dont have to create a carbon copy of GW2 Necro just to suit you

Kulvar

They have minions. Skeletal mage/archer, skeletal bomber, heal ghost...
Them expiring after a while do not means they're not minion.

And I would be glad if sorcerer pets and warden bear became temporary too.

Izariel

Shackles of convention? The biggest villain in this game (other than a god) is a Necromancer who summons vast armies of the dead. It is not like this is a made up concept. Mannimarko is pretty much a template.

Xvorg

ezio45 wrote: »

give necro twilight, scamp and atro

and give sorc goliath, an actual heal and shock tether

That would be quite cool

Xvorg

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Because they dont have to create a carbon copy of GW2 Necro just to suit you

Which is a CC of Diablo 2 Necro

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Izariel wrote: »

Shackles of convention? The biggest villain in this game (other than a god) is a Necromancer who summons vast armies of the dead. It is not like this is a made up concept. Mannimarko is pretty much a template.

First: They are not permanent minions.
Second: He is a much better necro than you will ever be.

SaintSubwayy

This is ESO, not any other MMO...and ZOS can desice how a "Necromancer" should be and what he can do, according to ESO Lore...not GW2 or any other games Lore.

If you dont like the Concept then dont play a necro...its that simple.

Xvorg

Izariel wrote: »

Shackles of convention? The biggest villain in this game (other than a god) is a Necromancer who summons vast armies of the dead. It is not like this is a made up concept. Mannimarko is pretty much a template.

Mannimarco is the King of Worms... he's not just a Necromancer,, he is THE Necromancer. Without the Vestige intervention he could have just outschemed the god of schemes, and that's something guys like Vivec, Sotha or Almalexia could have done.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Izariel wrote: »

You guys are....Nevermind.

You realize your arguments are basically like saying. "We can't have a sorcerer with magic! That would be boring! Besides, we have other classes with magic so we can't do that. We can just have the sorcerer face tank instead.".

Totaly different, All class have magic. But class have signature that make them differents and giving these to everyones just make all the class look the same.

I do agree that Necro should have been a minion class and that why they shouldn't have been the class released with elsweyr.

Izariel

Your arguments: Your version of a necromancer doesn't exist in ES!

What about Mannimarko?

You: He doesn't count.

Me: Uhhhh