Could alkoash be actually viable option for dps next patch?

WrathOfInnos · April 2019

It looks like a pretty good set, should add about 2% DPS to the group. Compare that to Torug’s Pact, which is only about 1% DPS for the group. Ebon can indirectly add DPS by allowing DD’s to invest 1k less into health, and moving this to stam or mag adds about 1.5%.

Still it won’t replace Alkosh, which can add up to 6% group DPS on a skilled tank (more like 3% on an average tank).

I predict we’ll see Ebon, Alkosh, Claw and Torugs still in optimized raid groups. 2 tanks get 4 sets, and I’m not aware of any other sets outperforming these. I also don’t see any reason to move Alkosh off of the tank, maybe if we get a couple more good tank support sets it could eventually come to that.

Tasear · April 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It looks like a pretty good set, should add about 2% DPS to the group. Compare that to Torug’s Pact, which is only about 1% DPS for the group. Ebon can indirectly add DPS by allowing DD’s to invest 1k less into health, and moving this to stam or mag adds about 1.5%.

Still it won’t replace Alkosh, which can add up to 6% group DPS on a skilled tank (more like 3% on an average tank).

I predict we’ll see Ebon, Alkosh, Claw and Torugs still in optimized raid groups. 2 tanks get 4 sets, and I’m not aware of any other sets outperforming these. I also don’t see any reason to move Alkosh off of the tank, maybe if we get a couple more good tank support sets it could eventually come to that.

No replacing just discussion of could it be used now in DPS. If not what would make it so.

SaintSubwayy · April 2019

Tannus15 wrote: »

2 tank setup:
main tank - alkosh, claw
off tank - ebon - torugs/alkosh/whatever depending on what they are doing.

1 tank setup - ebon, claw

just my thoughts.

3k pen from alkosh is by far stronger than measly 129 SD/WD
if you fdont have a meele stamDD then Alkosh will remain unchallanced on the 1 tank setup

code65536 · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Yeah but there is no cooldown on the proc

So? You still need to space out your procs in order to have high uptime.

Nightingale707 · April 2019

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Currently, end-game theorycrafters are considering this set-up for support roles:

MT: Alkosh + Yolnakhriin
OT: Ebon + Second Set (Alkosh/Dragon/Torug's/PA/Tong)
Healers: Any combination of Torug's, Worm, Jorvuld's, Hircine's paired with Olo and IA

Seriously, stop trying to make Alkosh a DPS set. It won't be a thing. Ever. Not until they introduce some other godly set that complete replaces Alkosh.

THIS is precisely what will happen imo. Torug´s will move to healers, since it is crafted, available in all traits/weights and there is no real reason why a healer should not be able to keep good uptimes (learn to weave!!)

robpr · April 2019

Stamcer can use one skill that allows self-synergy so it is possible to free one tank slot for melee dps. Alkosh DoT is not a top notch dps tool, but potent nevertheless.

gapps · April 2019

robpr wrote: »

Stamcer .....

Really? - Isn't StamNec the plausible name?

SoLooney · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Alkosh will continue to be the #1 tank set until either A) they make a set that’s even better, or b) the power of armor penetration is decreased or outdone by something else. The new set will only pass off one of the tank sets to a healer or drop another one entirely.

I thought Ebon was the #1 tanking set?

Debuffs for end game raiders is way more important than having that health. Having a warden in the group giving toughness also justifies not having ebon in the group and that is overkill. Its obviously situational and progression groups are probably gonna benefit from ebon a lot

Faster stuff dies, less time spent in mechanics and less of a chance to die.

Alkosh will currently be the best debuff set a tank can wear just because of how much pen debuff it gives for magicka and stamina. Though tanks finally have a new set to look forward to giving minor courage when elsweyr arrives

Also, it is alkosh and galenwe. Lolol

ATomiX96 · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

alkosh cant crit, it's weak and not viable

Yeah but there is no cooldown on the proc, could stack the proc Still just a discussion about subject.

But theres a individual cooldown on unique synergies, therefore its not viable.
Just think about how many synergies there are that multiple people can activate, the answer is not enough, even if you could get 3 different synergies on cooldown and multiple damage instanes of the proc would stack on the affected targets, it wouldnt be viable, except in AOE situations, but again, there you have the problem of getting synergies reliably.

Relequen, Tzogvin, AY, you name it >>> Alkosh (for dds)

idk · April 2019

code65536 wrote: »

LiberatorSam wrote: »

Torugs only removes 600ish res so probably can drop it in favor of the new set.

On the staff bar, Torug increases Crusher from 2108 to 2740 for 632 extra penetration. That's halved on the 1H/S bar.

For PvE enemies, you divide by 500, so that's 1.26% extra damage from Torug if Crusher is applied from a staff or 0.63% if 1H/S.

The damage from 129 SD/WD is a lot more variable. But let's say for the sake of illustration someone has 40K max magicka and 3K SD. In that case, adding 129 SD is about 1.9% extra damage. The exact figure will vary, but it's reasonable to say that Minor Courage will have a similar, if not slightly greater, effect than 632 extra penetration.

The changes to 1H/S enchantments adds a bit more complexity to the upkeep of Crusher, whereas Minor Courage will be trivially easy to maintain. And, most importantly, Crusher is single-target (and sometimes it will go onto a target that you don't want), whereas Minor Courage will affect all damage.

So I expect that if a tank set is to be dropped, it will be Torug as it's easily the weakest of the tank sets at the moment. And I don't expect to see a DD in Alkosh. Alkosh on a tank is just too efficient.

Thx for the good math. I knew someone smarter than I could shed a better light on this.

I think for the sake of argument in this thread that we are talking about crusher applied by the staff, but numbers from both options are good for all to see since a not all groups run for competitive scores.

Tasear · April 2019

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

alkosh cant crit, it's weak and not viable

Yeah but there is no cooldown on the proc, could stack the proc Still just a discussion about subject.

But theres a individual cooldown on unique synergies, therefore its not viable.
Just think about how many synergies there are that multiple people can activate, the answer is not enough, even if you could get 3 different synergies on cooldown and multiple damage instanes of the proc would stack on the affected targets, it wouldnt be viable, except in AOE situations, but again, there you have the problem of getting synergies reliably.

Relequen, Tzogvin, AY, you name it >>> Alkosh (for dds)

So the biggest issue synergies in gameplay.

idk · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

DPS shouldn't use it lol .

Discussion is presenting the idea that might be option on DPS now with self synergizes, fixing trapping webs, more synergies in game.

The goal is in situations with 2 tanks that more DPS boosting sets could be used. As of now the new set adds another option to listed on demand sets for tanks that can't be fullfilled by just 2 tanks.

It is a worthy question. Though, he is right that there are better dps sets, this question will not be answered in this thread today.

When Alkosh was added to the game I do not think anyone spoke in the forums about a tank using that set but quickly became a tank set. What this will come down to is if a group can show they can get more group damage out of a dps using Alkosh and having tanks using Torugs/Alkosh and Ebon/Alkosh or PA then they will go that way.

The people that do that kind of critical thinking probably do not have the answer yet and will probably not freely answer it until they a WFC of the of vSunspire HM or even a speed run.

Heady · April 2019

wtf is alkoash?

Heady · April 2019

sounds like a combo of alchemist in ashlander style

Tasear · April 2019

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

DPS shouldn't use it lol .

Discussion is presenting the idea that might be option on DPS now with self synergizes, fixing trapping webs, more synergies in game.

The goal is in situations with 2 tanks that more DPS boosting sets could be used. As of now the new set adds another option to listed on demand sets for tanks that can't be fullfilled by just 2 tanks.

It is a worthy question. Though, he is right that there are better dps sets, this question will not be answered in this thread today.

When Alkosh was added to the game I do not think anyone spoke in the forums about a tank using that set but quickly became a tank set. What this will come down to is if a group can show they can get more group damage out of a dps using Alkosh and having tanks using Torugs/Alkosh and Ebon/Alkosh or PA then they will go that way.

The people that do that kind of critical thinking probably do not have the answer yet and will probably not freely answer it until they a WFC of the of vSunspire HM or even a speed run.

Yeah it was interesting discussion. At very least it's not impossible just a question is it worthwhile

idk · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

DPS shouldn't use it lol .

Discussion is presenting the idea that might be option on DPS now with self synergizes, fixing trapping webs, more synergies in game.

The goal is in situations with 2 tanks that more DPS boosting sets could be used. As of now the new set adds another option to listed on demand sets for tanks that can't be fullfilled by just 2 tanks.

It is a worthy question. Though, he is right that there are better dps sets, this question will not be answered in this thread today.

When Alkosh was added to the game I do not think anyone spoke in the forums about a tank using that set but quickly became a tank set. What this will come down to is if a group can show they can get more group damage out of a dps using Alkosh and having tanks using Torugs/Alkosh and Ebon/Alkosh or PA then they will go that way.

The people that do that kind of critical thinking probably do not have the answer yet and will probably not freely answer it until they a WFC of the of vSunspire HM or even a speed run.

Yeah it was interesting discussion. At very least it's not impossible just a question is it worthwhile

And it is a worthwhile discussion. It really comes down to the value of that 631 spell pen. From the information Code provided the WD/SD from the new set looks pretty sweet unless I looked at their post incorrectly.

templesus · April 2019

Yeah sure Alkosh will becomes a DPS set once they make procs crit again. Oh wait that’ll never happen, so it’ll never get used.

gapps · April 2019

templesus wrote: »

Yeah sure Alkosh will becomes a DPS set once they make procs crit again. Oh wait that’ll never happen, so it’ll never get used.

lel maybe it crits -wasn't intended.

idk · April 2019

gapps wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Yeah sure Alkosh will becomes a DPS set once they make procs crit again. Oh wait that’ll never happen, so it’ll never get used.

lel maybe it crits -wasn't intended.

Are you saying it does crit or that when it used to crit that was not intended? When it released it likely did crit and it was, without a doubt, intended if it did since most proc sets crit back then.