Could alkoash be actually viable option for dps next patch?

Tasear · April 2019

Right now we have in demand : Ebon, Torugs,Alkoash, Powerful assault, galwene but next patch we get the following set:

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Gain Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(5 items) When you taunt an enemy, give yourself and 11 group members Minor Courage for 15 seconds, increasing Spell and Weapon Damage by 129. 8 second cooldown

Now necro dps can uses their own class synergy. Besides that they make trapping webs a high damage synergy an option, along with other synergies in game. It looks like an easier option now with necro dps.

Ebon - needed cause most people use that purple food that cuts health for sustain
Torugs - still on dps
Powerful Assault - only 4 at a time but can get on everyone with corrdination
Galwene - wasn't better then alkoash and uptime was in question, but does increase dps
Claw of Yolnakhriin - minor courage for 12 people

Now there's more sets then 2 tanks can cover, so brings in question maybe dps could use it too for greater or equal benefit of group. Well maybe it's just a pipe dream, but just wanted to share thoughts as I theorycraft my tanks. So what do you guys think?

kargen27 · April 2019

I didn't realize anybody used the Galwene set. I always try to give it away then decon it. That said I haven't been on either of my tanks for so long I'm not sure what they are wearing. One of them has an Alcast build but not sure if it is a current build.

Would be nice if Alcosh could be used other than on my tank because I have a lot of it in a chest somewhere.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2019

How much DPS is 129 weapon/spell damage? What ever it is, is is certainly going to be less then 3k pen.

Ysbriel · April 2019

could it? im already farming the armor set for one of my dps anyways, but i deconstructed the chest today by accident. Next patch or not one of my DD will be running alkosh for trials

weedgenius · April 2019

Never heard of it

Savos_Saren · April 2019

Honestly, I don't think so. The two morphs allow 1.) The user to proc their own synergy or 2.) The user to place an AOE major fracture/breach while dealing a pretty significant DOT.

It would be, perhaps, better for the Necromancer to use Unnerving Boneyard while his/her companion wears Alkosh, though.

If the Necro is wearing Alkosh- you won't get the opportunity to deal the Major Fracture/Breach from the other morph. So, it's imperative that your off-tank (or anyone, really) wears Alkosh to synergize with your Unnerving Boneyard. Thus- you have over 8K penetration and two major DOTs proccing.

Does that sound about right?

Tannus15 · April 2019

2 tank setup:
main tank - alkosh, claw
off tank - ebon - torugs/alkosh/whatever depending on what they are doing.

1 tank setup - ebon, claw

just my thoughts.

idk · April 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

I didn't realize anybody used the Galwene set. I always try to give it away then decon it. That said I haven't been on either of my tanks for so long I'm not sure what they are wearing. One of them has an Alcast build but not sure if it is a current build.

Would be nice if Alcosh could be used other than on my tank because I have a lot of it in a chest somewhere.

I do not think Galwene is used by any serous groups. I have not seen it used by a group tackling any of the newer trials.

Ok, just noticed this is minor, Olorime gives major courage.

But no, I think Alkosh will still be in play. Math will determine if this set replaces Torugs or not since Most of the crushing enchant value will still be there with an infused back bar staff.

Draxys · April 2019

Alkosh will continue to be the #1 tank set until either A) they make a set that’s even better, or b) the power of armor penetration is decreased or outdone by something else. The new set will only pass off one of the tank sets to a healer or drop another one entirely.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

Draxys wrote: »

Alkosh will continue to be the #1 tank set until either A) they make a set that’s even better, or b) the power of armor penetration is decreased or outdone by something else. The new set will only pass off one of the tank sets to a healer or drop another one entirely.

I thought Ebon was the #1 tanking set?

idk · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Alkosh will continue to be the #1 tank set until either A) they make a set that’s even better, or b) the power of armor penetration is decreased or outdone by something else. The new set will only pass off one of the tank sets to a healer or drop another one entirely.

I thought Ebon was the #1 tanking set?

Ebon is probably the first set a group makes sure one tank is wearing it. So probably yes, but Alkosh has been significant for a long time as well. I would probably take Alkosh before Torugs since Torugs only adds about 600 penetration to an infused staff.

Tasear · April 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

How much DPS is 129 weapon/spell damage? What ever it is, is is certainly going to be less then 3k pen.

My thought is what if dps used alkoash for groups. Then the other sets could be used in gameplay.

LiberatorSam · April 2019

Torugs only removes 600ish res so probably can drop it in favor of the new set.

Tasear · April 2019

idk wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Alkosh will continue to be the #1 tank set until either A) they make a set that’s even better, or b) the power of armor penetration is decreased or outdone by something else. The new set will only pass off one of the tank sets to a healer or drop another one entirely.

I thought Ebon was the #1 tanking set?

Ebon is probably the first set a group makes sure one tank is wearing it. So probably yes, but Alkosh has been significant for a long time as well. I would probably take Alkosh before Torugs since Torugs only adds about 600 penetration to an infused staff.

But alkoash unlike torugs could be on a dps. It's just there was issues with synergies and uptime in past but nercomancer could change that.

idk · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

How much DPS is 129 weapon/spell damage? What ever it is, is is certainly going to be less then 3k pen.

My thought is what if dps used alkoash for groups. Then the other sets could be used in gameplay.

They have and it worked well but better sets for stam dps have been added.

The question is more about how much more this SD/WD is comparted to the ~600 pen is that Torugs provides. That is the first thing to look at. I do not know how the last big of pen weights in against another 129 WD/SD. Smarter people than myself have to answer that question. Though for most groups it probably does not matter.

darkblue5 · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Alkosh will continue to be the #1 tank set until either A) they make a set that’s even better, or b) the power of armor penetration is decreased or outdone by something else. The new set will only pass off one of the tank sets to a healer or drop another one entirely.

I thought Ebon was the #1 tanking set?

Alkosh better actually reflects and does what tanking is usually about in PVE rn. Alkosh/Powerful Assault tank in vDSA for example even pretty early when vDSA was still pretty hard. Swap to selfish on Hiath of course.

BTW, couldn't a healer run Torug's Pact with pretty good uptime given that Olorime opened up a slot? Might have to double bar infused crusher which might not be feasible in all content.

Tasear · April 2019

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

How much DPS is 129 weapon/spell damage? What ever it is, is is certainly going to be less then 3k pen.

My thought is what if dps used alkoash for groups. Then the other sets could be used in gameplay.

They have and it worked well but better sets for stam dps have been added.

The question is more about how much more this SD/WD is comparted to the ~600 pen is that Torugs provides. That is the first thing to look at. I do not know how the last big of pen weights in against another 129 WD/SD. Smarter people than myself have to answer that question. Though for most groups it probably does not matter.

Yeah was curious cause something is likely to change.Healers have plently of set options so not likely to put new set on them. That leaves tanks.

* I wonder how well a necromancer dps will do with alkoash and other new set. Alkoash proc will be intrested by 25% along with all other damage and necro dps can self use synergies

(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial and Arena monsters by 5%
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you activate a Synergy, gain Major Slayer for 15 seconds.

Type: Trial
Location: Sunspire
Items: Jewels, Weapons, Medium Armor,

acw37162 · April 2019

You don’t know yet other classes won’t get a self activating synergy

code65536 · April 2019

LiberatorSam wrote: »

Torugs only removes 600ish res so probably can drop it in favor of the new set.

On the staff bar, Torug increases Crusher from 2108 to 2740 for 632 extra penetration. That's halved on the 1H/S bar.

For PvE enemies, you divide by 500, so that's 1.26% extra damage from Torug if Crusher is applied from a staff or 0.63% if 1H/S.

The damage from 129 SD/WD is a lot more variable. But let's say for the sake of illustration someone has 40K max magicka and 3K SD. In that case, adding 129 SD is about 1.9% extra damage. The exact figure will vary, but it's reasonable to say that Minor Courage will have a similar, if not slightly greater, effect than 632 extra penetration.

The changes to 1H/S enchantments adds a bit more complexity to the upkeep of Crusher, whereas Minor Courage will be trivially easy to maintain. And, most importantly, Crusher is single-target (and sometimes it will go onto a target that you don't want), whereas Minor Courage will affect all damage.

So I expect that if a tank set is to be dropped, it will be Torug as it's easily the weakest of the tank sets at the moment. And I don't expect to see a DD in Alkosh. Alkosh on a tank is just too efficient.

gapps · April 2019

Could alkosh be actually viable option for dps next patch?

It was already in trashfights in vSO on 1 DD.

T3hasiangod · April 2019

No. Alkosh will never be placed on a DPS for several reasons.

There are stronger front bar sets out there. Advancing Yokeda, War Machine, Tzogvin's (on bow builds), and the new medium armor set from Sunspire all contribute more DPS than what Alkosh would be able to provide via its damage proc.
Tanks get the most amount of synergies due to the placement of abilities. They are the first ones to get Shards from Templars, they are in the ideal spot to activate Conduit, Warden healers will likely catch the tank with Budding Seeds, and they are able to take damage and debuffs to activate Blood Altar and Purify, respectively. On the other hand, DPS are only really able to get one synergy consistently: Orbs.
Related to point 1, because there are stronger damage sets out there, this means that support sets like Alkosh are better suited for support roles. These are the tank and healer.
A DPS may not always be in a position to hit the target with the Alkosh proc. The proc has a limited range, meaning if the DPS is facing the wrong way or is too far from the boss, then Alkosh does not hit the boss. The tank, on the other hand, is almost always in the face of the boss or controlling the trash stack, putting them in an ideal position to hit everything with the proc.

There's a reason why Alkosh has never really been placed on a DPS in even semi-serious raiding groups since procs were changed so they couldn't crit: the damage it provides is not enough to justify running it on a DPS when the tank is in a much better position to activate the effect.

Currently, end-game theorycrafters are considering this set-up for support roles:

MT: Alkosh + Yolnakhriin
OT: Ebon + Second Set (Alkosh/Dragon/Torug's/PA/Tong)
Healers: Any combination of Torug's, Worm, Jorvuld's, Hircine's paired with Olo and IA

Seriously, stop trying to make Alkosh a DPS set. It won't be a thing. Ever. Not until they introduce some other godly set that complete replaces Alkosh.

Cheezits94 · April 2019

Tasear, HOW can you misspell the set you want to talk about literally every time?
It's ALKOSH. And Galenwe.
English is not my first language, and I have a severe case of Dyslexia myself, so I figure we are in the same boat. But I use spell check and make sure to double-check fantasy names, because I respect my fellow people who have to read and decipher what I write. And so should you, please.

With my reading disorder, your threads are always the hardest to read on the entire forums because of all the countless spelling- and grammar errors. Maybe other people's brains can immediately make a connection between a heavily misspelled word and the correct one, mine can't, especially not in a foreign language, and then I spend several minutes to find out what your topic is about. I hope you can make your posts more accessible for people like me.
This here seems just disrespectful.
Use spell checks. Even the one from Microsoft Word is pretty good nowadays and it checks grammar rules as well. For fantasy names like "Alkosh", "Tamriel" or "Galenwe", a quick Google search will help. As I am sure you have looked up the exact wording of the set bonus anyways, quickly checking the right spelling of the set itself would have been a nice gesture.

Edit: I corrected a typo I missed earlier. Yes, that is possible, too.

gapps · April 2019

Cheezits94 wrote: »

Tasear, HOW can you misspell the set you want to talk about literally every time?
It's ALKOSH. And Galenwe.
Emglish is not my first language, and I have a severe case of Dyslexia myself, so I figure we are in the same boat. But I use spell check and make sure to double-check fantasy names, because I respect my fellow people who have to read and decipher what I write. And so should you, please.

Thank you!

Floliroy · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Ebon - needed cause most people use that purple food that cuts health for sustain
Torugs - still on dps
Powerful Assault - only 4 at a time but can get on everyone with corrdination
Galwene - wasn't better then alkoash and uptime was in question, but does increase dps
Claw of Yolnakhriin - minor courage for 12 people

Galenwe is a joke.
Ebon can be used on Healer (and is used on healer in most of the cases)

Then you're gucci only 4 setups for 2 tanks.
And if you're using only 1 tank, Torug + Alkosh will still outperform others sets.

Also with Yolnakhriin maybe Power Assault will become Minor Courage bonus also ^^

Nifty2g · April 2019

alkosh cant crit, it's weak and not viable

Tasear · April 2019

Cheezits94 wrote: »

Tasear, HOW can you misspell the set you want to talk about literally every time?
It's ALKOSH. And Galenwe.
Emglish is not my first language, and I have a severe case of Dyslexia myself, so I figure we are in the same boat. But I use spell check and make sure to double-check fantasy names, because I respect my fellow people who have to read and decipher what I write. And so should you, please.

With my reading disorder, your threads are always the hardest to read on the entire forums because of all the countless spelling- and grammar errors. Maybe other people's brains can immediately make a connection between a heavily misspelled word and the correct one, mine can't, especially not in a foreign language, and then I spend several minutes to find out what your topic is about. I hope you can make your posts more accessible for people like me.
This here seems just disrespectful.
Use spell checks. Even the one from Microsoft Word is pretty good nowadays and it checks grammar rules as well. For fantasy names like "Alkosh", "Tamriel" or "Galenwe", a quick Google search will help. As I am sure you have looked up the exact wording of the set bonus anyways, quickly checking the right spelling of the set itself would have been a nice gesture.

Gotcha no need to get fussy. It's just conversational English. Natural English speaker understood it perfectly fine. Lots of people make mistakes like this audience and honestly considering it's informal talk it doesn't matter Still I see your point but make mine too.

Tasear · April 2019

Floliroy wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Ebon - needed cause most people use that purple food that cuts health for sustain
Torugs - still on dps
Powerful Assault - only 4 at a time but can get on everyone with corrdination
Galwene - wasn't better then alkoash and uptime was in question, but does increase dps
Claw of Yolnakhriin - minor courage for 12 people

Galenwe is a joke.
Ebon can be used on Healer (and is used on healer in most of the cases)

Then you're gucci only 4 setups for 2 tanks.
And if you're using only 1 tank, Torug + Alkosh will still outperform others sets.

Also with Yolnakhriin maybe Power Assault will become Minor Courage bonus also ^^

Yeah most people wouldn't use ebon on a healer. It's only a handful of cases it's being used like.

Still lots of different responses to the question. Does not seem very clear cut and will need actually testing.

gapps · April 2019

Nifty2g wrote: »

alkosh cant crit, it's weak and not viable

For now its true, few patches ago it wasnt that bad in trash in specific situations. (vSO 2Hand stamDK)

Tasear · April 2019

Nifty2g wrote: »

alkosh cant crit, it's weak and not viable

Yeah but there is no cooldown on the proc, could stack the proc Still just a discussion about subject.

ccfeeling · April 2019

DPS shouldn't use it lol .

Tasear · April 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

DPS shouldn't use it lol .

Discussion is presenting the idea that might be option on DPS now with self synergizes, fixing trapping webs, more synergies in game.

The goal is in situations with 2 tanks that more DPS boosting sets could be used. As of now the new set adds another option to listed on demand sets for tanks that can't be fullfilled by just 2 tanks.