DragonKnight upcoming /Rant

Fiktius · March 2019

Knootewoot wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Agree. And my ranges cc (cripple) doesnt even work as it gets reflected. And getting into melee range to fear is a death sentence if your also a vampire.

I am also not saying I want these nerfes though. I dislike all nerfes.

^I agree!

Also not to mention that at several recent mag blade threads it seemed like most popular suggestion was just tweaking some Nightblade skills (Criple and Swallow soul were great candidates) and make them not to count as projectiles, so we could have still a chance to fight, when everything else is being reflected back to us.
HOWEVER it was developers choice that they completely decided to change how wings function, it's not reasonable to blame mag blades for this. Devs tends to do what they want, even if nobody asked that kind of changes at first place.

Solariken · March 2019

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

They didn't become a huge problem until battlegrounds were a thing.

Heimpai · March 2019

Edziu wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

DK are already whining before seeing any kind of written patch notes and are still not admitting how unbalanced op wings are

and this is 1st thread I see about dk whinning while loosing their reflect while I have seen good 5+ threads also streached to many pages in them about nb whining with loosing their mindor berserk from 1 skill which will still have i itself working as it was

EDIT: and there are still incoming more nb whine threads

Well magblades are trash in pvp and you have people crying to nerf cloak ontop of this nerf, then what will they have? Trash heals/decent dmg

Wings aren’t a problem just slot FP...oh okay we have to sacrifice a slot to counter but others don’t think they should be forced to do the same with cloak..?

I doubt stamblade‘s are the ones whining

Billdor · March 2019

As if MagDK isn't shite right now..

Kuramas9tails · March 2019

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

DK are losing their identity and getting shoved into tanking role

nbs loosing their dps op identity

nah they are not losing their identity u can still get minor brutality from other sources.
they did not lose cloack

It's not Minor Brutality.

It's Minor Berserk.

It's suited for Mage and Stam builds. Meaning, if Mageblades want this Minor Berserk, we have to slot a resto staff and use Combat Prayer. This also puts the only class to have access to this is the Pay to Play Warden which, may I add, their passives add 3% damage to each animal companion slotted and which, the Wing ability only need to be SLOTTED for the Minor Berserk. So in reality, just having it SLOTTED, Wardens get 11% damage. May I also add that the Wing ability also gives recovery which that would be similar to putting two Nightblade skills (Focus and Siphon) into one skill. And let me highlight again, to get the 8% damage, NB's have to use resources to get it and use the skill. Wardens do not. It's up at all times. This is why Focus is a MUST for both Stamblades and Mageblades which is one of the many things that identifies the Nightblade as a versatile build class which as all classes should be suited for.

Let me add that Stamblades mostly use that skill for the buff. Rarely do they use the bow proc and that is mostly Mageblades that have that in their rotation. So to Stamblades, switching out that skill for the Fighter Guild skill hurts them very little. It mostly takes a giangatic, hot and liquid dump on Mageblades.

But ok, complain about the Nightblade, a free to play class, getting 8% because ZOS fails to successfully attend to Stam/Magic/PVE/PVP complaints and accurately addressing the issue at hand all awhile being ok with ZOS putting special skills only a Warden can get that you have to pay for. Let me say that again. That you have to pay to play.

Edit: May I add that I am not asking for a Warden Nerf, I am rather trying to say to re-evaluate NB instead of taking it away completely from them and address this with other classes as well and how Minor Berserk can be accessed by all builds without needing a specific weapon involved (i.e. Resto for Minor Beserk).

Onefrkncrzypope · March 2019

If the projectiles are the currently reflected ones it's a nerf. If it covers all projectiles it will be a small buff.

What most dk players usually say to balance wings is to have a range limit. It promotes dk gameplay by bringing people into meleeish range and will have a counter that won't trigger people because they have to slot a different skill OMG.

Remember nothing in the dragonknight toolkit that is effective at range in any manner.

Would anyone be upset with just wings but over 18 meters be reflected and under wouldn't.

Donnasnowheart_ESO · March 2019

1v1 nerf, smallescale largescale buff. I'm more happy about the Snipe nerf and Spin2Win nerf about time.

Shawn_PT · March 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

DK are losing their identity and getting shoved into tanking role

In fact, nerf to wings strips them of some tanking perks too. Hello there, snares in vFL and defiles in vet Blackrose.

This. When I read about this change last night my first thought was exactly 'well there goes the only thing that made that fight bearable'. Time to finally shelf my DK. I just can't find joy in tanking anymore.

DisgracefulMind · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

They didn't become a huge problem until battlegrounds were a thing.

They didn't become such a problem until multiple magicka specs had their viable CCs taken from them and became forced into clench spam as CC and spammable since either their spammable is terrible or they just don't have one.

I think the change will be a good one, and it isn't the huge nerf everyone is going on about. DKs won't get 100% mitigation from ranged (which I think is completely fair), but they still maintain 50% of that, plus won't need to spam flip-flap.

If anything, I think this is a really nice approach to balance a skill.

The game changes, and adjustments need to be made throughout its changes.

Solariken · March 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

They didn't become a huge problem until battlegrounds were a thing.

They didn't become such a problem until multiple magicka specs had their viable CCs taken from them and became forced into clench spam as CC and spammable since either their spammable is terrible or they just don't have one.

I think the change will be a good one, and it isn't the huge nerf everyone is going on about. DKs won't get 100% mitigation from ranged (which I think is completely fair), but they still maintain 50% of that, plus won't need to spam flip-flap.

If anything, I think this is a really nice approach to balance a skill.

The game changes, and adjustments need to be made throughout its changes.

Oh I know, I'm stoked about the change, not least because it was my suggestion verbatim. :P

DisgracefulMind · March 2019

Solariken wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

They didn't become a huge problem until battlegrounds were a thing.

They didn't become such a problem until multiple magicka specs had their viable CCs taken from them and became forced into clench spam as CC and spammable since either their spammable is terrible or they just don't have one.

I think the change will be a good one, and it isn't the huge nerf everyone is going on about. DKs won't get 100% mitigation from ranged (which I think is completely fair), but they still maintain 50% of that, plus won't need to spam flip-flap.

If anything, I think this is a really nice approach to balance a skill.

The game changes, and adjustments need to be made throughout its changes.

Oh I know, I'm stoked about the change, not least because it was my suggestion verbatim. :P

Oh I wasn't really going at you haha, I just thought your point would be good followed up by viewpoints from someone who plays a class forced into clench spam qq

Classes with good spammables and good CC really have nothing to complain about.

I think this wing change would actually be a buff outnumbered if it goes through.

Savos_Saren · March 2019

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Says the guy who complains that Wings completely shuts down ranged MagBlades. Say- if you're a ranged MagBlade… how are we supposed to barrage you with embers (melee), flame lash (melee), fossilize (melee range)? Yet you can pew pew the living *** out of us from over 28 meters away... and that's fair?

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Says the guy who complains that Wings completely shuts down ranged MagBlades. Say- if you're a ranged MagBlade… how are we supposed to barrage you with embers (melee), flame lash (melee), fossilize (melee range)? Yet you can pew pew the living *** out of us from over 28 meters away... and that's fair?

Use your pull skill/gap closer?

Dragneel1207 · March 2019

here we are talking about class identity
its like
sorc losing pets and their escape streak
warden losing shalks and betty
nb losing stealth and incap

hmm dk losing wings is the same. Dk dont have gap closers and all their abilities are copied already
like s&b ultimate,
fossilize to rune cage,
flames of oblivion to hurricane

therift · March 2019

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

Years ago, most projectile skills couldn't be reflected. It's obvious this correction is now due.

Savos_Saren · March 2019

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

here we are talking about class identity
its like
sorc losing pets and their escape streak
warden losing shalks and betty
nb losing stealth and incap

hmm dk losing wings is the same. Dk dont have gap closers and all their abilities are copied already
like s&b ultimate,
fossilize to rune cage,
flames of oblivion to hurricane

..don't forget chains. Gave that one away, too. Oh and Battle Roar? It's damn near on Witchman's armor. All that's left is whip... oh wait... Necromancer's Scythe. I think Leap would be the very last thing to give away.

Dragneel1207 · March 2019

chains are already taken by necro

Savos_Saren · March 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Says the guy who complains that Wings completely shuts down ranged MagBlades. Say- if you're a ranged MagBlade… how are we supposed to barrage you with embers (melee), flame lash (melee), fossilize (melee range)? Yet you can pew pew the living *** out of us from over 28 meters away... and that's fair?

Use your pull skill/gap closer?

@Chilly-McFreeze
The same could be said to a MagBlade complaining about wings countering all ranged attacks. Don't use ranged attacks... use lotus fan, fear, soul harvest, and concealed weapon. But nope... the DK needs to be nerfed to accommodate your specific playstyle, right?

MaxwellC · March 2019

I gotta comment on this again.

To people who suggest "OMUHGAWD I can break a CC so that doesn't work as they'll keep flapping" Look mate if you seriously think that you solely have to rely on one specific form of combat to be competent then fine but that is YOUR PROBLEM AND NOT THE CLASSES PROBLEM.

You can CC sure but you can also oh I don't know disengage and LoS/Time I mean come on there's so many damn things out there to do other than whining about not being able to range a target.

@Alucardo
Mate you just said you had problems fighting a DK as a Magblade.... Lol. Sorry this is coming from a class that can disengage at will, lay on the debuffs at will, and has a strong hard CC that iirc debuffs the target.
Your issue is not a class skill issue, it strictly is a L2P issue and the fact that there are players who put this ideology where "If I can't do a particular style against a class as good as another, therefore something is OP" this mentality is what has crippled this game in PvP and has continued to dilute the game into pigeon-holing you into certain sets/abilities.

People won't be satisfied until we do away with classes and just have one single player with weapon skill lines running around but even then they'll find some asinine goal post moving logic to further cater to their in-ability to learn and adapt.

Addition: Do note that wings aren't some cheap-ass skill to use especially if you're a Stam DK but noo of course people gotta whine because they felt mashing a button with no consequences is how the game should function since they're too inept to use a bit a cognitive power so they can prevail in a fight. Love the lack of critical thinking skills people continue to propagate through-out this game just to nerf since they refuse to learn.

WillhelmBlack · March 2019

DKsUnite wrote: »

I mean as iconic as DK reflect is, classes change. Blinding flashes was an iconic templar skill but it got changed because of balance. Regardless of that, the change is actually really good. Now you can actually fight outnumbered and not have to dump 3k magicka every 2 seconds because your wings fell off from a couple of light attacks

I'm calling this out now @DKsUnite

The proposed changes will be deemed too OP when it goes live, even though Mist Form will actually be better. It will get nerfed to 25% and it will be crap. No one will use it and DK has lost another useful skill.

DreadDaedroth · March 2019

therift wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

Years ago, most projectile skills couldn't be reflected. It's obvious this correction is now due.

It'd be simpler and better to make few more skill not reflectable (like it happened with ultimates), that way it'd be not necessary to twist the original function of a iconic skill.

ll_Rev · March 2019

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

DK are losing their identity and getting shoved into tanking role

nbs loosing their dps op identity

Remove their Cloak an Incap/Soul Harvest then they'll lose their identity Even mentioning it will bring a sea full of NBs getting salty and saying they're underperforming and actually need buff

except mag nb is underperforming....

Jhalin · March 2019

They could’ve adjusted wings a lot better than taking away it’s entire Reflection identity. It’s taking away fun from the class, for no real gain

Magblades with the least amount of unreflectable options will not be any better because they’re still getting nerfs, and “by comparison” buffs are not buffs at all, so this doesn’t help them at all

Warden hardly use bird at all and their wings are basically a better DK wings now, plus they now have exclusive class access to both Berserk and Minor Toughness

Necromancer is getting the Saptank potentional NBs used to be known for, and the new Power Lash without the cooldown.

Amazing how much power they’ve stolen from the base classes to put on their cash classes. It’s what happens and will keep happening so long as game companies are run by heartless suits with no passion for the games they publish

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Says the guy who complains that Wings completely shuts down ranged MagBlades. Say- if you're a ranged MagBlade… how are we supposed to barrage you with embers (melee), flame lash (melee), fossilize (melee range)? Yet you can pew pew the living *** out of us from over 28 meters away... and that's fair?

Use your pull skill/gap closer?

@Chilly-McFreeze
The same could be said to a MagBlade complaining about wings countering all ranged attacks. Don't use ranged attacks... use lotus fan, fear, soul harvest, and concealed weapon. But nope... the DK needs to be nerfed to accommodate your specific playstyle, right?

Oh, I don't have a side in this blame battle. I play both (although not as main) so I understand both points. They designed themselves in a corner with that and the change to wings seems like an easy way out. Shortcuts taken again.

But like we rightfully mentioned, we have uncomfortable ways to "work around that" already. They are just not great. That goes for both sides. That's all I've got to say about this at the moment. I'd rather wait until PTS comes up to judge. We don't even know what other balances changes are coming.

However, it speaks volumes that they mostly tease with nerfs.

Edwin · March 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Says the guy who complains that Wings completely shuts down ranged MagBlades. Say- if you're a ranged MagBlade… how are we supposed to barrage you with embers (melee), flame lash (melee), fossilize (melee range)? Yet you can pew pew the living *** out of us from over 28 meters away... and that's fair?

Use your pull skill/gap closer?

@Chilly-McFreeze
The same could be said to a MagBlade complaining about wings countering all ranged attacks. Don't use ranged attacks... use lotus fan, fear, soul harvest, and concealed weapon. But nope... the DK needs to be nerfed to accommodate your specific playstyle, right?

Did you really just suggest using a gapcloser to do damage? Only non-ultimate ability magblades have against a DK with wings is concealed weapon.

If you actually think what you just suggested is possible, you should try it out and come back with the results.

GlorphNoldorin · March 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Says the guy who complains that Wings completely shuts down ranged MagBlades. Say- if you're a ranged MagBlade… how are we supposed to barrage you with embers (melee), flame lash (melee), fossilize (melee range)? Yet you can pew pew the living *** out of us from over 28 meters away... and that's fair?

Agree totally. Ranged dps.....think they have to be able to kill everyone. Why not just decide that you have to fight someone else. In the end I wouldnt care so much if this change went through for pvp, it would be a far greater nerf for pve.

There should be an aspect of scissor, paper, rock to this game.

As usual, like rapids, timestop, expedition and it goes on.....all of these nerfs affect skills which were totally fine in pve.

Emma_Overload · March 2019

The phrase "losing class identity" needs to be banned by the content filter. I only ever hear this phrase used when somebody is trying to defend some grossly overpowered mechanic from the nerf hammer.

MaxwellC · March 2019

@Emma_Overload
You're the last person that should ever try to hold an argument of what's OP and what's not OP because as per your own comments anything that hurts your sorc gameplay is OP and anything that benefits your sorc gameplay is fine.

Maybe comment when you've got no bias in your comment or better yet don't even bother at all

Strider__Roshin · March 2019

Wings have been too strong for as long as I can remember, and the offensive buff they're getting with Power Lash more than compensates for it. Don't worry, there are things other classes have that I feel need adjusted as well (Backlash, Cloak, Mage's Fury, and the Warden as a whole) so it's not like I feel like DKs specifically needed to be picked on, but nonetheless I feel like removing reflect from Wings was a good change.

Kadoin · March 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

The phrase "losing class identity" needs to be banned by the content filter. I only ever hear this phrased used when somebody is trying to defend some grossly overpowered mechanic from the nerf hammer.

Sad, but true...I seriously

every time I read that line or a post suggesting something should be buffed "because lore" like the Argonians crying for a poison resistance buff or the Bosmers wanting stealth passive back. All good material to give me a good laugh on the forums every day.

I'm glad I never slot wings more than once on my mag or stam DKs. I heard the crutches creaking a long time ago.