DragonKnight upcoming /Rant

MartiniDaniels

Edziu wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

DK are already whining before seeing any kind of written patch notes and are still not admitting how unbalanced op wings are

and this is 1st thread I see about dk whinning while loosing their reflect while I have seen good 5+ threads also streached to many pages in them about nb whining with loosing their mindor berserk from 1 skill which will still have i itself working as it was

EDIT: and there are still incoming more nb whine threads

I will create NB whine thread as soon as there will any similar thread on main page.

MartiniDaniels

Daus wrote: »

Wings have been too strong for as long as I can remember, and the offensive buff they're getting with Power Lash more than compensates for it. Don't worry, there are things other classes have that I feel need adjusted as well (Backlash, Cloak, Mage's Fury, and the Warden as a whole) so it's not like I feel like DKs specifically needed to be picked on, but nonetheless I feel like removing reflect from Wings was a good change.

I'm interested what stamDK is getting
Since off-balance is more of stamina thing, they should made powerlash stam morph, well then things will be probably OK.

MaxwellC

@Daus
Sorry mate but not everyone plays a Mag DK nor mains one.
The wings removing reflect pretty much kills any viability for DKs who prefer solo content in PvP.
Why do I think that you say?

If wings do not reflect then when it comes to dealing with targets who line up ranged debuffs/poisons, sure the damage I may take from the initial hit is weakened (whoo hoo) but the affects from the debuff last and cripple you. So now you're no longer able to sustain 2+ people using poisons on you let alone injects while having to deal with the various debuffs that'll keep being applied to you.

People need to understand something.
DKs especially Stam DKs are a class built for short range combat and wings help us force that fight to that combat style which we're most effective at doing (This can be said for Mag DKs too), with this change you've literally said F u to a class built on close quarter combat with nothing near in quality given to compensate for the increased difficulty of forcing a close ranged fight on a class that already does not cater enough to Stam DKs.

Wanna remove reflect k then do the following
All damage sure cap it at 50% but all debuffs should also be removed/be immune to it for that time it is active.
OP right? well wings helped us not get riddled with debuffs so it's only fair if you can't agree to that then leave wings alone and adapt. Line of sighting a target isn't hard, CCing a target isn't hard, DoT a target up to force them to be more defensive, isn't hard, timing your abilities isn't hard... the list can go on.

Lastly some people may think "Well you probably just don't PvP good enough". I'll end that here by stating the following.
I've literally been crowned Emperor over 10 times. I've solo'd my rank 95-99% of the time (Almost Grand Warlord & I group up only when Emperor to spread the fun).
I have over 70k AvA kills which overwhelmingly come from playing Solo and I have gated AD/EP countless times back in Haderus as a Stam DK Emp which has all been recorded from various people.
Feel free to go on Xbox and view my Gamertag (MAXWELL) and compare achievements to prove me wrong and maybe go in Cyrodill and ask long time players who also wreaked havoc way back then with Moving Wall,Trvp,Hulk,Glow,etc Not trying to gloat but it's something I've proud of doing for my DC alliance.

Strider__Roshin

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Daus
Sorry mate but not everyone plays a Mag DK nor mains one.
The wings removing reflect pretty much kills any viability for DKs who prefer solo content in PvP.
Why do I think that you say?

If wings do not reflect then when it comes to dealing with targets who line up ranged debuffs/poisons, sure the damage I may take from the initial hit is weakened (whoo hoo) but the affects from the debuff last and cripple you. So now you're no longer able to sustain 2+ people using poisons on you let alone injects while having to deal with the various debuffs that'll keep being applied to you.

People need to understand something.
DKs especially Stam DKs are a class built for short range combat and wings help us force that fight to that combat style which we're most effective at doing (This can be said for Mag DKs too), with this change you've literally said F u to a class built on close quarter combat with nothing near in quality given to compensate for the increased difficulty of forcing a close ranged fight on a class that already does not cater enough to Stam DKs.

Wanna remove reflect k then do the following
All damage sure cap it at 50% but all debuffs should also be removed/be immune to it for that time it is active.
OP right? well wings helped us not get riddled with debuffs so it's only fair if you can't agree to that then leave wings alone and adapt. Line of sighting a target isn't hard, CCing a target isn't hard, DoT a target up to force them to be more defensive, isn't hard, timing your abilities isn't hard... the list can go on.

Lastly some people may think "Well you probably just don't PvP good enough". I'll end that here by stating the following.
I've literally been crowned Emperor over 10 times. I've solo'd my rank 95-99% of the time (Almost Grand Warlord & I group up only when Emperor to spread the fun).
I have over 70k AvA kills which overwhelmingly come from playing Solo and I have gated AD/EP countless times back in Haderus as a Stam DK Emp which has all been recorded from various people.
Feel free to go on Xbox and view my Gamertag (MAXWELL) and compare achievements to prove me wrong and maybe go in Cyrodill and ask long time players who also wreaked havoc way back then with Moving Wall,Trvp,Hulk,Glow,etc Not trying to gloat but it's something I've proud of doing for my DC alliance.

Sounds like you'll be able to handle this nerf just fine then

D0PAMINE

@MaxwellC Well said.

david_m_18b16_ESO

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

DK are the number 1 tank since game release and they still havent corrected that.

Iccotak

Savos_Saren

Emma_Overload wrote: »

The phrase "losing class identity" needs to be banned by the content filter. I only ever hear this phrase used when somebody is trying to defend some grossly overpowered mechanic from the nerf hammer.

Right. And when cloak DOT supression is gone and sorc shields take another hit to only reduce incoming damage by 50%- you'll still spew out the same nonsense?

Savos_Saren

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

If wings were so unbalanced they'd have corrected them years ago.

DK are the number 1 tank since game release and they still havent corrected that.

@david_m_18b16_ESO

Mmmhmmm… and Sorcs/NBs have been #1 DPS since patch... and they still haven't corrected that.

DKsUnite

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

I mean as iconic as DK reflect is, classes change. Blinding flashes was an iconic templar skill but it got changed because of balance. Regardless of that, the change is actually really good. Now you can actually fight outnumbered and not have to dump 3k magicka every 2 seconds because your wings fell off from a couple of light attacks

I'm calling this out now @DKsUnite

The proposed changes will be deemed too OP when it goes live, even though Mist Form will actually be better. It will get nerfed to 25% and it will be crap. No one will use it and DK has lost another useful skill.

@WillhelmBlack I mean mist form will be better only if you are trying to reposition or just tank. Wings will be better if you are trying to actually kill someone because you know, mist form doesn't let you use abilities. I don't think it would be nerfed that hard. I can see it going down to 40% but honestly I hope it stays at 50%. I think they are very aware of how much DK needs wings because of how melee based they are. Time will tell but I have faith in the devs and reps.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

how to make it even? remove sorcs streak/nb shadowy disguise(not dark cloak...I need that as a tank)/warden reflective shields/templars BoL

EdoKeledus

Before every bowtard and magblade take the wings "nerf" like a victory, do not mistake yourself, you will continue to be roasted and fossilized.

KhajiitFelix

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

DK are losing their identity and getting shoved into tanking role

In fact, nerf to wings strips them of some tanking perks too. Hello there, snares in vFL and defiles in vet Blackrose.

And they removed snares in vFL, good job!

DKsUnite

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Daus
Sorry mate but not everyone plays a Mag DK nor mains one.
The wings removing reflect pretty much kills any viability for DKs who prefer solo content in PvP.
Why do I think that you say?

If wings do not reflect then when it comes to dealing with targets who line up ranged debuffs/poisons, sure the damage I may take from the initial hit is weakened (whoo hoo) but the affects from the debuff last and cripple you. So now you're no longer able to sustain 2+ people using poisons on you let alone injects while having to deal with the various debuffs that'll keep being applied to you.

People need to understand something.
DKs especially Stam DKs are a class built for short range combat and wings help us force that fight to that combat style which we're most effective at doing (This can be said for Mag DKs too), with this change you've literally said F u to a class built on close quarter combat with nothing near in quality given to compensate for the increased difficulty of forcing a close ranged fight on a class that already does not cater enough to Stam DKs.

Wanna remove reflect k then do the following
All damage sure cap it at 50% but all debuffs should also be removed/be immune to it for that time it is active.
OP right? well wings helped us not get riddled with debuffs so it's only fair if you can't agree to that then leave wings alone and adapt. Line of sighting a target isn't hard, CCing a target isn't hard, DoT a target up to force them to be more defensive, isn't hard, timing your abilities isn't hard... the list can go on.

Lastly some people may think "Well you probably just don't PvP good enough". I'll end that here by stating the following.
I've literally been crowned Emperor over 10 times. I've solo'd my rank 95-99% of the time (Almost Grand Warlord & I group up only when Emperor to spread the fun).
I have over 70k AvA kills which overwhelmingly come from playing Solo and I have gated AD/EP countless times back in Haderus as a Stam DK Emp which has all been recorded from various people.
Feel free to go on Xbox and view my Gamertag (MAXWELL) and compare achievements to prove me wrong and maybe go in Cyrodill and ask long time players who also wreaked havoc way back then with Moving Wall,Trvp,Hulk,Glow,etc Not trying to gloat but it's something I've proud of doing for my DC alliance.

I mean if you are fighting a 1v3, two of which are ranged (very common), they will remove your wings as fast as you can apply it. Meaning you can't actually do any other moves. If you are attempting to do any other moves, the debuffs and DoTs are coming through anyways. Therefore, the new wings will be better in that scenario. If you are dueling, then the old wings are better but it's pretty imbalanced because they literally can't get any offense through.

I really think this change is the right one considering wings probably needed a change and this keeps the feel that ranged opponents are at a disadvantage against a DK but not so much as they can't do anything unless they outnumber you

RamiroCruzo

Basically, in entire freaking PvP, there is one class where you can't spam a single button from 40 meters range without suffering the consequences and you guys wanna remove it so as to eat chicken and click snipe from a wall while Dragon Knights slither 5 meters below you like snakes?

Lemme tell you guys what's gonna happen next, all mDKs, will again go back to Heavy S&B Turtle and spam the hell out of CC cooldowns and in a week there will be threads about how DK need nerfs. Cause we can't bear the fact that we need to sue brains.

Our Ultimate can be up in 20 seconds, gives us 20% damage boost, puts defiles on target, our melee spammable gives us major ward and resolve, gives major fracture/breech, hits like a truck, still, we are underperforming. We have the most buggy hard CC of the game which gives Minor maim at the end for free, a root that hits from Timbuktu with strong DoT which even gives us expedition but we are underperforming.

Don't waste your breath saying I don't know Magblades, have played them enough to know how to counter a turtle class with my mobility

Actually, discussing here is a waste of time...Have a nice day and see you in next DK nerf thread after Elsweyr.

Knootewoot

EdoKeledus wrote: »

Before every bowtard and magblade take the wings "nerf" like a victory, do not mistake yourself, you will continue to be roasted and fossilized.

@zos, you hear that? NEEEEERF THE TOASTER AND FOSSILIZZZE.
They just admitted it's OP . Add them to the list and to necro skill line

MaxwellC

@Daus
Glad you were able to have a strong refute there buddy
@DKsUnite
In a 1v3 scenario that simply doesn’t happen the “they remove your wings just as fast”.

If I found myself in that scenario, other things come into play like “what class are they”, “who seems the weakest”, “what’s there skill set they keep using”, etc.

Like I’ve preached what others should do instead of whining about wings reflect, I’d simply follow I.e LoS, dodge, Cc, etc.

The current wings is the best because again I escape ranger debuffs & am able to reliably force a close ranged fight. The new wings reduces projectile damage yet I still take it & quite sure DoT damage isn’t reduced while debuffs wither me down.

Reflect would’ve forced them to either block, play defensive (like when a NB gets the impale proc sent right back at em), take the hit along with the debuff, or die thanks to reflect & possibly my abilities that withered them down.

No matter what scenario you claim, if this disastrous change happens without anything given in return that is over 100% in value, then they’ve effectively killed solo content for DKs especially Stam DKs.

Edziu

Heimpai wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

DK are already whining before seeing any kind of written patch notes and are still not admitting how unbalanced op wings are

and this is 1st thread I see about dk whinning while loosing their reflect while I have seen good 5+ threads also streached to many pages in them about nb whining with loosing their mindor berserk from 1 skill which will still have i itself working as it was

EDIT: and there are still incoming more nb whine threads

Well magblades are trash in pvp and you have people crying to nerf cloak ontop of this nerf, then what will they have? Trash heals/decent dmg

Wings aren’t a problem just slot FP...oh okay we have to sacrifice a slot to counter but others don’t think they should be forced to do the same with cloak..?

I doubt stamblade‘s are the ones whining

well magblades are trash thanks to great balancing knowledge of ZOS and stamblade here...

magblade trash is because of stupidly op stamblade and everytime when they try to tweak stupid stamblade then on magblade it is harder hit while on stamblade it is barely significant difference...there is problem, not an other classes like here with dk wing for example

for all bad things which unecessary hitted to hard maglbade all you can do is say thank you to just stamblade and ZOS trying to balance out stamblade to rest...

Fiktius

EdoKeledus wrote: »

Before every bowtard and magblade take the wings "nerf" like a victory, do not mistake yourself, you will continue to be roasted and fossilized.

For what exchange?

Since Mag Blades ranged tool kit consists of projectiles, you don't need to understand rocket science to figure out that only Force Pulse will hit with normal damage if mag blade happens to use it, but everything else is gonna hit like a wet noodle as long as wings are up. And since there's apparently no projectile cap coming, with properly sustained build that wing up time can end to be quite high.

I don't think anyone would consider noodle damage as "victory."

Chilly-McFreeze

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It takes under a second to break a CC. How is that supposed to help exactly? My magblade who can barely touch DKs (decent ones) would really like to know. God forbid they are using immovable pots.
Why does my magblade have a billion things running through his head when fighting a magdk, but said magdk can just barrage him with embers, flame lashes, fossilize and leap without even thinking.
Now I am not saying I'm for this change (I do play mdk too), but when people say "just cc bruh" it kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Says the guy who complains that Wings completely shuts down ranged MagBlades. Say- if you're a ranged MagBlade… how are we supposed to barrage you with embers (melee), flame lash (melee), fossilize (melee range)? Yet you can pew pew the living *** out of us from over 28 meters away... and that's fair?

Agree totally. Ranged dps.....think they have to be able to kill everyone. Why not just decide that you have to fight someone else. In the end I wouldnt care so much if this change went through for pvp, it would be a far greater nerf for pve.

There should be an aspect of scissor, paper, rock to this game.

My sarcasm detector is broken. Or is it? "You loose because your class is the paper to my scissor - no chances given" sounds like bad game design to me. But whatever floats your boat.

Alucardo

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

Don't waste your breath saying I don't know Magblades, have played them enough to know how to counter a turtle class with my mobility

What mobility? Is there some kind of snare removal magblades have that I don't know about?

Heimpai

EdoKeledus wrote: »

Before every bowtard and magblade take the wings "nerf" like a victory, do not mistake yourself, you will continue to be roasted and fossilized.

Most magblades just wanted cripple to work or something..most will not see this as a victory...but on another note magblade is getting nerfed again, guess that’s a victory for you right?

Sanguinor2

Being a magblade main must really suck if not knowing your own class abilities that help you move and kite is big part of it. I mean seriously do magblade mains know shadow Image and cloak exist? In all magblade threads I´ve seen it doesnt look that way, so if you didnt know: Shadow Image and cloak do exist, and they allow you to kite and in Addition with multiple Major Expedition abilities allow you to have mobility too.

MartiniDaniels

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Being a magblade main must really suck if not knowing your own class abilities that help you move and kite is big part of it. I mean seriously do magblade mains know shadow Image and cloak exist? In all magblade threads I´ve seen it doesnt look that way, so if you didnt know: Shadow Image and cloak do exist, and they allow you to kite and in Addition with multiple Major Expedition abilities allow you to have mobility too.

What this has to do with removal of minor berserk? So you propose to slot shadow image or cloak instead?

Heimpai

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Being a magblade main must really suck if not knowing your own class abilities that help you move and kite is big part of it. I mean seriously do magblade mains know shadow Image and cloak exist? In all magblade threads I´ve seen it doesnt look that way, so if you didnt know: Shadow Image and cloak do exist, and they allow you to kite and in Addition with multiple Major Expedition abilities allow you to have mobility too.

What this has to do with removal of minor berserk? So you propose to slot shadow image or cloak instead?

Didn’t you know those also increase your damage by 6k

Sanguinor2

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

What this has to do with removal of minor berserk? So you propose to slot shadow image or cloak instead?

Nah but a ton of magblades are complaining About no mobility on their class. Meanwhile magplar me gets slightly salty About that.

Sanguinor2

In Terms of minor berserk removal I´d recommend 2 Things.
1st: Do what everyone else does and deal with it. Im sure most here complaining About the nerf have told plenty of other People to just adapt so just do the same.
2nd: Convince the devs to sepparate pve and pvp balancing, might also help you.

Savos_Saren

Alucardo wrote: »

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

Don't waste your breath saying I don't know Magblades, have played them enough to know how to counter a turtle class with my mobility

What mobility? Is there some kind of snare removal magblades have that I don't know about?

Shadow Image= teleport
Path of Darkness (and morphs)= major expedition
Cloak + Concealed weapon= increased sneak speed
Crippling Grasp= an immobilizer that gives you major expedition
Double Take= major evasion and major expedition

Magblades literally have access to THE MOST mobile class skills in the game. Plus you want a snare removal?

Sanguinor2

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Shadow Image= teleport
Path of Darkness (and morphs)= major expedition
Cloak + Concealed weapon= increased sneak speed
Crippling Grasp= an immobilizer that gives you major expedition
Double Take= major evasion and major expedition

Magblades literally have access to THE MOST mobile class skills in the game. Plus you want a snare removal?

Dont go and tell them that, they might actually realize that they can kite magdks and might stop Standing still and writing on the Forums while getting whipped.
Also its totally common Knowledge that only snare removal is mobility and thus dk is the only class with built in mobility. (In case no one can tell since we are on the internet, this is sarcasm)

Drdeath20

If you consider a skill changed to taking 50% damage for 6 seconds a nerf, than the skill was too OP before the change. Just wow!