Breton vs. Orc Healer

Jeremy · March 2019

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nightingale707 wrote: »

As a healer you should not choose your sets to compliment your character but to assist your group. Same goes for any and all skills you slot. And for me it even influences the class I heal on.

let me ask you: what mundus/food/enchantments do you use on orc/breton? where are you stats after food? Because chances are you need sustain food on an Orc, whilst if you are using sustain food on a breton healer you are simply oversustaining by such a large margin that it isn´t even funny.
Same goes for SD/regen enchantments on jewelry.

And orbs should be your primary source of healing and always floating through the group.

Nah.

It's perfectly acceptable for healers to choose sets that compliment their character's healing. It's also perfectly acceptable for healers not to use your precious orbs.

The rest of us do not exist for the sole purpose of making damage-dealers deal more damage.

Uh yeah we do. Heals yes; but that also helps more dps because they don't need to slot more heals etc.

Your WHOLE JOB as a healer is everything you can possibly do, so that the DPS can do YET MORE DPS.

I'm checking out of this thread now.

Best wishes all!

Uh no, it is not.

Sorry but when I read the healer's role description in the activity finder it does not say my job is to do everything I possibly can to make sure you do as much damage as possible. That's just your own interpretation of the role and not something I"m obliged to humor you with.

Jeremy · March 2019

TimeWizard wrote: »

Here's some evidence to support healers using orbs: Energy orbs is one of the strongest aoe hots in the game.
Combat prayer (a resto staff skill) gives the group minor resistances and minor berserk (a damage buff)
Light's Champion buffs the group as well as healing, inculding giving major force (a damage buff)

These are all skills obviously designed for healers, that also buff or gives resources bcak to the group.

The existence of orbs is not evidence it's a healer's job to use it. That's a silly argument.

Like I said - unless you can show me a post from any ZoS employee confirming it's a healer's job to use orbs all you basically have is your own say-so. And sorry but I'm under no obligation to play my character like you say-so.

Jeremy · March 2019

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

You are seriously handicapping both yourslef and your gorup by not using orbs

I do just fine without orbs.

The DPS unlucky enough to be in your group disagree, believe me!!

I don't see why they should considering I keep them alive while we easily defeat the dungeon on HM.

If they expect more than that, then perhaps they have unrealistic expectations. When I play DPS (which I'll admit is not often) I never ask for orbs. I do just fine without it and would never build my character dependent on another character in the group using a specific ability.

lassitershawn · March 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

Jeremy · March 2019

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

They are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously. This game has no dedicated support role.

lassitershawn · March 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

The are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously.

Nonexhaustive list of commonly used skills/sets in endgame content by tanks and healers primarily for their support value:

ORBS (except its actually a god tier heal also so...???)
Templar spear
Power of the Light (zero healing just for the debuff)
Liquid Lightning (sorc healer just for synergy)
Engulfing flames
Shadow Silk
Combat Prayer
WARHORN (used by all support roles in serious content)
Budding Seeds (does offer healing but is mostly used for the synergy especially when used by an OT)
Elemental Blockade (commonly used by healers and tanks to proc enchantments)
ELEMENTAL DRAIN (one of the strongest debuffs in the game, offers no heals and is pure support)
Alkosh
Torug's Pact (this and alkosh are probably the two most common tank sets and provide very little in the way of selfish stats)
Worm
Powerful Assault
IA
Olorime (at least one healer in this as well as IA is used in pretty much all endgame content. Neither set offers particularly potent "healing" bonuses and both are clearly for group support)
Hircine
Ebon (if you were going for pure selfish tankiness you would wear plague)

The existence of these skills and sets as well as many others and their extremely common use in endgame is clear evidence that tanks and healers are intended to support the group and not just taunt/heal.

notimetocare · March 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Also, why do you put toons with different sets in comparison? You should show orc with sanctuary and olorime to see the difference.

Because it show that you can build one different for the same goal?

Bosov · March 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

They are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously. This game has no dedicated support role.

Please... just stop. Healer IS support in eso.

You can keep saying that it isnt but that will only show that you have no clue about what you are talking about.

Liofa · March 2019

I think there is a misunderstanding here when it comes to the difference between a "healer" and a "support". Let me try to explain. This here, is the build I use on live server: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=122396

As you see, pretty generic. The thing is, I heal through my support abilities and those abilities increase my healing power. I do both things at the same time.

Energy Orbs: In my experience, the best skill for highest HPS. Because it ticks every half second, meaning more Bogdan procs. The synergy itself is a very strong AOE burst heal as well.

Breath of Life: Emergency heal, nothing else to say, barely using it.

Illustrious Healing: I use it only to proc Olorime and heal at the same time. Again, a very strong heal that lets me take advantage of Major Courage, a potent buff that increases my healing done.

Combat Prayer: Extremely strong AOE burst heal. Also gives everyone resistance buffs which makes everyone take less damage including myself, making my job easier and me tankier. Also procs Asylum Resto Staff, increasing my sustain to unbelievable levels, allowing me to run max stat food instead of Witchmothers and Mage Mundus (I know Ritual gives more healing, I am just a hopeless stat addict) instead of Atronach.

Inner Light: Gives me Major Prophecy, increasing my critical chance for better healing. Gives 7% Max Magicka and 2% Magicka Recovery, again increasing my heal potency.

Replenishing Barrier: Emergency ultimate for saving lives. Also gives me nice amount of sustain through the Support tree passive, letting me invest into healing done instead of sustain.

Channeled Focus: Makes me tanky and gives nice sustain, indirectly increasing healing done by letting me invest into stats instead of sustain.

Shield: For self survival, dead healer cannot heal.

Extended Ritual: Big AOE heal that gives a synergy that cleanses debuffs and heals a decent amount. Gives me Minor Mending, increasing healing done.

Elemental Drain: Increasing my sustain as I continue to hit the enemy with light attacks and/or Blockade.

Blockade of Storms: Procs my Berserker enchant, increasing my healing done while setting enemies Off Balance.

Aggressive Horn: Gives max stats to everyone including myself, gaining 10% Max Magicka, increasing my Healing Done by a lot.

As you see, it's a support build but almost everything I do increases my healing. You might be wondering how much healing I do with this build. I healed vMoL HM solo in a pug group (I think the boss died after we took the 5th or 6th orb) as the other healer crashed on 3rd platform. I think that should say enough. Pretty intense and requires a ton of healing done. Healed Cloudrest execute as well after the Baneful Mark change. No problems. I am not even a healer main, not even close to being as good as one. I will leave to your imagination what actual Healer mains pull off.

What I am trying to say is, the people who defends the support builds are healing by a ton already. They don't need more healing power. They have more than enough. They just don't want to go overkill because it's a waste. Overhealing doesn't have any effect on the combat effectiveness. That's basically keeping allies away from their full potential just to see bigger numbers on healing skills. Only difference between a support healer and a "real" healer is the duration of combat being shorter with a support healer, being the reason why they are is simply better.

RogueShark · March 2019

I ran a khajiit healsorc up until very, very recently. Without the recent khajiit magic buffs. I cleared vas+2 as a khajiit sorcerer healer. Race is not that big of a deal, and even less so with the recent changes.

Now to all this nonsense that healers shouldn't be concerned about debuffing or helping with sustain...
Nah.
Besides, healing orbs are a frickin' amazing heal. They should be at the top if not the top of your healing done. That alone is reason enough to use them, even if you're deadset on the mindset of 'they should be able to sustain themselves'.
How BORING is it to just focus on healing when you can be doing so much more for the group? Why would you want to JUST heal when you can be so much more useful? I don't get that mentality.

Nightingale707 · March 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard, I usually use a combination of regen spells (ritutal of retribution, rapid regeneration) and breath of life to heal my groups. Not every healer uses orbs and healing springs.

And when I'm tanking I could care less if my healer uses orbs.

@Jeremy if that is how you are healing trials then I pity your groups. and you are being carried hard.

Gnozo · March 2019

This dude will never understand. If He wants to limit himself to just healing then its fine for normal trials and vet dungeons i guess. He just limits himself on what he can do.

This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

And i guess that a healer on a support/healer role can actually pull more HPS then him using bol and rapid Regen. So just leave him in his own world making the game how he wants it to be.

And by looking at some sets/skills in the Game, it clearly Shows that tanks and healers are indeed meant to Support.

Master Resto: healing springs restoring stamina to your target to SUPPORT them.
Spellpower Cure: when healing giving a buff to damage
Combat prayer: healing and buffing damage
Pierce Armor, the Main taunt for Tank: DEBUFFS the target increasing the damage from the DDs

So, ZOS Developer are clearly attaching support aspects to skills that are only used by tanks and healers making them support their group by doing their Job. Same goes for sets. Sets that only proc on healing/healing skills are supporting your group with sustain or increased damage.

Tbh, after looking at these examples how tf can someone still think that healers and tanks arent Support roles in ESO? Seriously?!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2019

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Gnozo · March 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

XxCaLxX · March 2019

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

Tasear · March 2019

Nightingale707 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Not as bad as IA on healers 🤢😷🤕

Why on earth would you not put a group support set on a support character?

DPS set caused by balance of concussion vs minor vulnerability procs.

Nightingale707 · March 2019

@Tasear so you also do not want tanks to wear Alkosh?

IA is a support set, it supports the whole group -> the best place to put it is on a support character, especially since there are no better sets to have as a healer at the moment! I would never want a DD to wear a set I could also wear if it means that DD is giving up on DPS because of it.

But I guess healing is also a mentality thing.

There are those of us, that enjoy helping their group make the most out of it´s potential and then there are those that refuse to do so, for whatever reasons. I honestly could not think of one good reason to not want to support your group.

Tasear · March 2019

Nightingale707 wrote: »

@Tasear so you also do not want tanks to wear Alkosh?

IA is a support set, it supports the whole group -> the best place to put it is on a support character, especially since there are no better sets to have as a healer at the moment! I would never want a DD to wear a set I could also wear if it means that DD is giving up on DPS because of it.

But I guess healing is also a mentality thing.

There are those of us, that enjoy helping their group make the most out of it´s potential and then there are those that refuse to do so, for whatever reasons. I honestly could not think of one good reason to not want to support your group.

I am one best healers in this game and my answer is no. There's no need to try to shame with your attitude. I even did a poll once half healer in game feel same way. They just need to fix concussion that they broke in clockwork and this ambomination wouldn't go on healers. I don't main a tank nor have a reason anymore to advocate their issues.

I have seen this attitude before just because people have different goals or ambition in the game they are casual or rp. The toxic elite disgust me. It's okay to be different and successful.

Gnozo · March 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Nightingale707 wrote: »

@Tasear so you also do not want tanks to wear Alkosh?

IA is a support set, it supports the whole group -> the best place to put it is on a support character, especially since there are no better sets to have as a healer at the moment! I would never want a DD to wear a set I could also wear if it means that DD is giving up on DPS because of it.

But I guess healing is also a mentality thing.

There are those of us, that enjoy helping their group make the most out of it´s potential and then there are those that refuse to do so, for whatever reasons. I honestly could not think of one good reason to not want to support your group.

I am one best healers in this game and my answer is no. There's no need to try to shame with your attitude. I even did a poll once half healer in game feel same way. They just need to fix concussion that they broke in clockwork and this ambomination wouldn't go on healers. I don't main a tank nor have a reason anymore to advocate their issues.

I have seen this attitude before just because people have different goals or ambition in the game they are casual or rp. The toxic elite disgust me. It's okay to be different and successful.

ShellaSunshine · March 2019

Wow... just... wow.

This thread has gone WAY off topic.

The whole point of the thread was to show people that since the new racial passives came out, you can literally play any race, class, role that you want WITHOUT gimping yourself if you know how to build them appropriately.

I had put in my original post that I'm fine with people who build their characters to the current META but I would appreciate it if you would keep your elitist comments to yourself.

This game isn't about "cookie cutter" builds and I honestly believe that Zenimax really wanted players to think outside the box and create their own builds. That's how the game was advertised at least.

With all the different sets out there, you can make a stamina race be magicka or vice versa. The only real difference now is that with the new racial passives, it's a whole lot easier to create different builds.

This orc healer is just for fun.

I am not interested nor have I ever been interested in "score runs." I used to be highly competitive in previous PvP games that I've played and even made it to the top 50 players in the world but completely lost interest once I completed my Legendary status.

I never said I was planning on running veteran trials. All I said was I was interested to try out trials with my orc healer which I thought everyone would assume would be normal trials. That was my mistake.

This is still and will always be a video game. Considering that this video game plays so much different than other MMO games, you can literally play any way you want now.

Please do not sit there at your computer and tell someone what abilities or race or role they should succumb to because you don't agree with their opinion.

The biggest problem I see with this game right now is that because of the racial balance issues since launch, people are still following the "head honchos" of the game for their "cookie cutter META" builds.

I feel like Zenimax has done a fantastic job with trying to even out each race so each race has their strengths and weaknesses. The real issue lies with the followers who ignore a ton of sets that if you actually took a few minutes of your life to think about, would realize that it can be used for an amazing and creative build.

There are too many fantastic sets that are being ignored because they have never been META by self proclaimed experts of the game.

If you have a basic understanding of the game's mechanics, you can build any character you want. I just feel like most people are not interested in taking the time to think and create their own builds.

This is why I believe the "cookie cutter" builds are so popular. You already have someone who did the math for you.

Last but not least, This orc build is not finished. It was solely an experiment I've been working on for the last week and I was extremely happy and excited about this build that I wanted to share it with everyone.

If you do not agree with the build, that's your personal opinion. Please do not come here to express negative comments and be rude to people just because you disagree with someone. State your opinion, read their response, but keep it clean.

We are all adults here. Let's act like it.

Bosov · March 2019

Nightingale707 wrote: »

@Tasear so you also do not want tanks to wear Alkosh?

IA is a support set, it supports the whole group -> the best place to put it is on a support character, especially since there are no better sets to have as a healer at the moment! I would never want a DD to wear a set I could also wear if it means that DD is giving up on DPS because of it.

But I guess healing is also a mentality thing.

There are those of us, that enjoy helping their group make the most out of it´s potential and then there are those that refuse to do so, for whatever reasons. I honestly could not think of one good reason to not want to support your group.

Before you start a discussion i feel like telling you that you are about to start a discussion with : (1) A woodelf vamp sorc healer who (2) got kicked from class rep program and (3) made some "special" builds.

I mean... some people have their "play how you want playstyle" and while that is fine they also want other people to play that playstyle for some reason. Even when it isnt great. To say the least.

Gnozo · March 2019

ShellaSunshine wrote: »

Wow... just... wow.

This thread has gone WAY off topic.

The whole point of the thread was to show people that since the new racial passives came out, you can literally play any race, class, role that you want WITHOUT gimping yourself if you know how to build them appropriately.

I had put in my original post that I'm fine with people who build their characters to the current META but I would appreciate it if you would keep your elitist comments to yourself.

This game isn't about "cookie cutter" builds and I honestly believe that Zenimax really wanted players to think outside the box and create their own builds. That's how the game was advertised at least.

With all the different sets out there, you can make a stamina race be magicka or vice versa. The only real difference now is that with the new racial passives, it's a whole lot easier to create different builds.

This orc healer is just for fun.

I am not interested nor have I ever been interested in "score runs." I used to be highly competitive in previous PvP games that I've played and even made it to the top 50 players in the world but completely lost interest once I completed my Legendary status.

I never said I was planning on running veteran trials. All I said was I was interested to try out trials with my orc healer which I thought everyone would assume would be normal trials. That was my mistake.

This is still and will always be a video game. Considering that this video game plays so much different than other MMO games, you can literally play any way you want now.

Please do not sit there at your computer and tell someone what abilities or race or role they should succumb to because you don't agree with their opinion.

The biggest problem I see with this game right now is that because of the racial balance issues since launch, people are still following the "head honchos" of the game for their "cookie cutter META" builds.

I feel like Zenimax has done a fantastic job with trying to even out each race so each race has their strengths and weaknesses. The real issue lies with the followers who ignore a ton of sets that if you actually took a few minutes of your life to think about, would realize that it can be used for an amazing and creative build.

There are too many fantastic sets that are being ignored because they have never been META by self proclaimed experts of the game.

If you have a basic understanding of the game's mechanics, you can build any character you want. I just feel like most people are not interested in taking the time to think and create their own builds.

This is why I believe the "cookie cutter" builds are so popular. You already have someone who did the math for you.

Last but not least, This orc build is not finished. It was solely an experiment I've been working on for the last week and I was extremely happy and excited about this build that I wanted to share it with everyone.

If you do not agree with the build, that's your personal opinion. Please do not come here to express negative comments and be rude to people just because you disagree with someone. State your opinion, read their response, but keep it clean.

We are all adults here. Let's act like it.

Still orc isnt as viable as breton for a healer. Other races perform better at this role. Argonian, Breton, highelf etc outshine orc by far. Ppl told you, you didnt agree, its fine.

I think this thread mostly exploded cause of jeremys nonesense.

Grianasteri · March 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why no food buff? Is really cheap and every build assumes you have it. Also, sanctuary is a garbage set. Hate seeing healers wear it.

How is Sanctuary garbage?

I used to think that Sanctuary was something of a waste because there were better sets with more interesting proc. But actually 12% additional healing across the board is hardly garbage. I heal everyone 12% more. Everyone's self healing also does 12% more.

That's a lot of extra healing kicking around a group.

Granted, if a group already has good survivability and/or the healer is good, then Sanctuary can be surplus to requirements. But there are still a great many dungeon and trial groups that welcome Sanctuary and whatever the situation 12% extra healing is going to be helpful.

Gnozo · March 2019

Grianasteri wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why no food buff? Is really cheap and every build assumes you have it. Also, sanctuary is a garbage set. Hate seeing healers wear it.

How is Sanctuary garbage?

I used to think that Sanctuary was something of a waste because there were better sets with more interesting proc. But actually 12% additional healing across the board is hardly garbage. I heal everyone 12% more. Everyone's self healing also does 12% more.

That's a lot of extra healing kicking around a group.

Granted, if a group already has good survivability and/or the healer is good, then Sanctuary can be surplus to requirements. But there are still a great many dungeon and trial groups that welcome Sanctuary and whatever the situation 12% extra healing is going to be helpful.

Its good for pvp where everyone already has strong self healing but in pve where dds mostly rely on a healer to heal them doesnt really benefit from 12% more healing. Your heals should be strong enough without the 12% so you can put on other, better support Sets.

IzzyStardust · March 2019

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

The are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously.

Nonexhaustive list of commonly used skills/sets in endgame content by tanks and healers primarily for their support value:

ORBS (except its actually a god tier heal also so...???)
Templar spear
Power of the Light (zero healing just for the debuff)
Liquid Lightning (sorc healer just for synergy)
Engulfing flames
Shadow Silk
Combat Prayer
WARHORN (used by all support roles in serious content)
Budding Seeds (does offer healing but is mostly used for the synergy especially when used by an OT)
Elemental Blockade (commonly used by healers and tanks to proc enchantments)
ELEMENTAL DRAIN (one of the strongest debuffs in the game, offers no heals and is pure support)
Alkosh
Torug's Pact (this and alkosh are probably the two most common tank sets and provide very little in the way of selfish stats)
Worm
Powerful Assault
IA
Olorime (at least one healer in this as well as IA is used in pretty much all endgame content. Neither set offers particularly potent "healing" bonuses and both are clearly for group support)
Hircine
Ebon (if you were going for pure selfish tankiness you would wear plague)

The existence of these skills and sets as well as many others and their extremely common use in endgame is clear evidence that tanks and healers are intended to support the group and not just taunt/heal.

Hun, stop feeding the troll. You're just wasting the bread.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2019

Gnozo wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Why no food buff? Is really cheap and every build assumes you have it. Also, sanctuary is a garbage set. Hate seeing healers wear it.

How is Sanctuary garbage?

I used to think that Sanctuary was something of a waste because there were better sets with more interesting proc. But actually 12% additional healing across the board is hardly garbage. I heal everyone 12% more. Everyone's self healing also does 12% more.

That's a lot of extra healing kicking around a group.

Granted, if a group already has good survivability and/or the healer is good, then Sanctuary can be surplus to requirements. But there are still a great many dungeon and trial groups that welcome Sanctuary and whatever the situation 12% extra healing is going to be helpful.

Its good for pvp where everyone already has strong self healing but in pve where dds mostly rely on a healer to heal them doesnt really benefit from 12% more healing. Your heals should be strong enough without the 12% so you can put on other, better support Sets.

What @Gnozo says is true too but why I say it is is the pitiful 10 meter range. More often then not, healers I see wearing it are standing so far away the set has absolutely no impact on me.

General_Zeranth · March 2019

This one approves of the use of non-meta racial roles. This one plays a Khajiit Templar Magicka Healer and is quite happy with her role. *Nods.*

Jeremy · March 2019

IzzyStardust wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

The are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously.

Nonexhaustive list of commonly used skills/sets in endgame content by tanks and healers primarily for their support value:

ORBS (except its actually a god tier heal also so...???)
Templar spear
Power of the Light (zero healing just for the debuff)
Liquid Lightning (sorc healer just for synergy)
Engulfing flames
Shadow Silk
Combat Prayer
WARHORN (used by all support roles in serious content)
Budding Seeds (does offer healing but is mostly used for the synergy especially when used by an OT)
Elemental Blockade (commonly used by healers and tanks to proc enchantments)
ELEMENTAL DRAIN (one of the strongest debuffs in the game, offers no heals and is pure support)
Alkosh
Torug's Pact (this and alkosh are probably the two most common tank sets and provide very little in the way of selfish stats)
Worm
Powerful Assault
IA
Olorime (at least one healer in this as well as IA is used in pretty much all endgame content. Neither set offers particularly potent "healing" bonuses and both are clearly for group support)
Hircine
Ebon (if you were going for pure selfish tankiness you would wear plague)

The existence of these skills and sets as well as many others and their extremely common use in endgame is clear evidence that tanks and healers are intended to support the group and not just taunt/heal.

Hun, stop feeding the troll. You're just wasting the bread.

Stop referring to me as a troll, hun.

You are given a wide selection of spells to choose from for a reason - so you can choose. They're not there so everyone must choose the same ones.

And I never said healers weren't meant to support the group. His post was a blatant deception of what I actually said. But it's not their primary role in combat either - and it's' their choice whether to assist the group with orbs or not. Their role in combat is to keep their allies alive. It says it right there in the game next to what their role is in the activity finder. I suggest you go read it and stop trolling the rest of us with this notion that all healers in this game are required to equip orbs to help your sustain.

Jeremy · March 2019

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Jeremy · March 2019

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.