Breton vs. Orc Healer

CultOfMMO

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

@Jeremy I feel you man everything you said is true. Yes a healers primary role is to heal, yes a GOOD healer can choose to do more, but people shouldnt automatically expect so much from other players, especially from players like yourself who is content with below mediocrity. Like I wouldn't expect everyone I meet in group finder to have a basic understanding of the game, who cares if you're being a burden to the team as long as you're having fun? #itsokaytobebad

Jeremy

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

@Jeremy I feel you man everything you said is true. Yes a healers primary role is to heal, yes a GOOD healer can choose to do more, but people shouldnt automatically expect so much from other players, especially from players like yourself who is content with below mediocrity. Like I wouldn't expect everyone I meet in group finder to have a basic understanding of the game, who cares if you're being a burden to the team as long as you're having fun? #itsokaytobebad

Fine. I'll respond some more I guess.

If the healer is doing his or her job and keeping the group alive they're not a burden on the group. They may not be as much of an asset to the group as they could be - but that doesn't make them a burden either.

To your second point - I don't need help with my sustain. So if a healer chooses not to use orbs in my group I could care less. I remember dealing with this crap back when every healer was expected to use repentance. That annoyed me as well and I don't like seeing that crap rearing it's ugly head again in the form of orbs.

Any group that needs orbs to complete - especially a four man dungeon - needs to stop blaming their healer for their own shortcomings. I actually had a guy crying for orbs in Selen's Web the other day. That's just sad sorry. People need to learn how their play their own class before trying to tell other people how to play their's.

Joy_Division

I keep getting tagged because my healer is a Nord

I find healer is the most dynamic role in that there isn't one set build or barsetup that is unquestionably best. It very much depends on the content and your group what setups and approach will be efficient and effective. So I think a strict definition of what they are or should do or wear or slot isn't the way to think about things. Some groups are full of nightblades so dropping Combat Payer is an option. Some groups don't need a lot of healing so more focus can be put on DPS. Sometime you get inexperienced players who need more sustain and attention on their health bars. It all depends. A good healer I think is adaptable and flexible to the needs of the group given the content.

I mean if I had an inexperienced or low CP player in Selene's Web asking for Orbs, I would use them because during that fight, sustain was needed. Actually, I would have recognized the fight does not requite a lot of healing and would have been supplying Shards for DPS so the sustain would have been taken care of. But that's besides the point. After the fight, I would probably message a player who seemed to be struggling if they wanted some advice. At this point they could continue the conversation if they were so inclined or go on to something else if not..

Jeremy

Joy_Division wrote: »

I keep getting tagged because my healer is a Nord

I find healer is the most dynamic role in that there isn't one set build or barsetup that is unquestionably best. It very much depends on the content and your group what setups and approach will be efficient and effective. So I think a strict definition of what they are or should do or wear or slot isn't the way to think about things. Some groups are full of nightblades so dropping Combat Payer is an option. Some groups don't need a lot of healing so more focus can be put on DPS. Sometime you get inexperienced players who need more sustain and attention on their health bars. It all depends. A good healer I think is adaptable and flexible to the needs of the group given the content.

I mean if I had an inexperienced or low CP player in Selene's Web asking for Orbs, I would use them because during that fight, sustain was needed. Actually, I would have recognized the fight does not requite a lot of healing and would have been supplying Shards for DPS so the sustain would have been taken care of. But that's besides the point. After the fight, I would probably message a player who seemed to be struggling if they wanted some advice. At this point they could continue the conversation if they were so inclined or go on to something else if not..

He wasn't low CP. He had nearly 500 if I remember correctly - and the fights were going very fast. His sustain was fine.

Still - If he had asked nicely I might have considered equipping it just because I'm a nice guy. But the arrogant and demanding way he asked for it ensured he had a better chance of winning the lottery than getting me to use orbs for him.

You're correct to say a good healer is adaptable and flexible. A good anything is adaptable and flexible. But it's not a healer's job to adapt to another player's lack of sustain or to focus on supporting the group. Their job is to heal the group and keep people alive. So long as they are meeting that basic function then they are meeting the fundamental criteria of their combat role. That's what I am attempting to say here.

TARAFRAKA

Jeremy wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

The are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously.

Nonexhaustive list of commonly used skills/sets in endgame content by tanks and healers primarily for their support value:

ORBS (except its actually a god tier heal also so...???)
Templar spear
Power of the Light (zero healing just for the debuff)
Liquid Lightning (sorc healer just for synergy)
Engulfing flames
Shadow Silk
Combat Prayer
WARHORN (used by all support roles in serious content)
Budding Seeds (does offer healing but is mostly used for the synergy especially when used by an OT)
Elemental Blockade (commonly used by healers and tanks to proc enchantments)
ELEMENTAL DRAIN (one of the strongest debuffs in the game, offers no heals and is pure support)
Alkosh
Torug's Pact (this and alkosh are probably the two most common tank sets and provide very little in the way of selfish stats)
Worm
Powerful Assault
IA
Olorime (at least one healer in this as well as IA is used in pretty much all endgame content. Neither set offers particularly potent "healing" bonuses and both are clearly for group support)
Hircine
Ebon (if you were going for pure selfish tankiness you would wear plague)

The existence of these skills and sets as well as many others and their extremely common use in endgame is clear evidence that tanks and healers are intended to support the group and not just taunt/heal.

Hun, stop feeding the troll. You're just wasting the bread.

Stop referring to me as a troll, hun.

You are given a wide selection of spells to choose from for a reason - so you can choose. They're not there so everyone must choose the same ones.

And I never said healers weren't meant to support the group. His post was a blatant deception of what I actually said. But it's not their primary role in combat either - and it's' their choice whether to assist the group with orbs or not. Their role in combat is to keep their allies alive. It says it right there in the game next to what their role is in the activity finder. I suggest you go read it and stop trolling the rest of us with this notion that all healers in this game are required to equip orbs to help your sustain.

I was fairly convinced that you have some deep-rooted anger issues before I even happened to read this page. Now I'm absolutely positive you have an anger problem, sir.

Jeremy

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

The are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously.

Nonexhaustive list of commonly used skills/sets in endgame content by tanks and healers primarily for their support value:

ORBS (except its actually a god tier heal also so...???)
Templar spear
Power of the Light (zero healing just for the debuff)
Liquid Lightning (sorc healer just for synergy)
Engulfing flames
Shadow Silk
Combat Prayer
WARHORN (used by all support roles in serious content)
Budding Seeds (does offer healing but is mostly used for the synergy especially when used by an OT)
Elemental Blockade (commonly used by healers and tanks to proc enchantments)
ELEMENTAL DRAIN (one of the strongest debuffs in the game, offers no heals and is pure support)
Alkosh
Torug's Pact (this and alkosh are probably the two most common tank sets and provide very little in the way of selfish stats)
Worm
Powerful Assault
IA
Olorime (at least one healer in this as well as IA is used in pretty much all endgame content. Neither set offers particularly potent "healing" bonuses and both are clearly for group support)
Hircine
Ebon (if you were going for pure selfish tankiness you would wear plague)

The existence of these skills and sets as well as many others and their extremely common use in endgame is clear evidence that tanks and healers are intended to support the group and not just taunt/heal.

Hun, stop feeding the troll. You're just wasting the bread.

Stop referring to me as a troll, hun.

You are given a wide selection of spells to choose from for a reason - so you can choose. They're not there so everyone must choose the same ones.

And I never said healers weren't meant to support the group. His post was a blatant deception of what I actually said. But it's not their primary role in combat either - and it's' their choice whether to assist the group with orbs or not. Their role in combat is to keep their allies alive. It says it right there in the game next to what their role is in the activity finder. I suggest you go read it and stop trolling the rest of us with this notion that all healers in this game are required to equip orbs to help your sustain.

I was fairly convinced that you have some deep-rooted anger issues before I even happened to read this page. Now I'm absolutely positive you have an anger problem, sir.

Then I hope you never see me when I'm actually angry because this is nothing by comparison.

TARAFRAKA

Jeremy wrote: »

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

The are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously.

Nonexhaustive list of commonly used skills/sets in endgame content by tanks and healers primarily for their support value:

ORBS (except its actually a god tier heal also so...???)
Templar spear
Power of the Light (zero healing just for the debuff)
Liquid Lightning (sorc healer just for synergy)
Engulfing flames
Shadow Silk
Combat Prayer
WARHORN (used by all support roles in serious content)
Budding Seeds (does offer healing but is mostly used for the synergy especially when used by an OT)
Elemental Blockade (commonly used by healers and tanks to proc enchantments)
ELEMENTAL DRAIN (one of the strongest debuffs in the game, offers no heals and is pure support)
Alkosh
Torug's Pact (this and alkosh are probably the two most common tank sets and provide very little in the way of selfish stats)
Worm
Powerful Assault
IA
Olorime (at least one healer in this as well as IA is used in pretty much all endgame content. Neither set offers particularly potent "healing" bonuses and both are clearly for group support)
Hircine
Ebon (if you were going for pure selfish tankiness you would wear plague)

The existence of these skills and sets as well as many others and their extremely common use in endgame is clear evidence that tanks and healers are intended to support the group and not just taunt/heal.

Hun, stop feeding the troll. You're just wasting the bread.

Stop referring to me as a troll, hun.

You are given a wide selection of spells to choose from for a reason - so you can choose. They're not there so everyone must choose the same ones.

And I never said healers weren't meant to support the group. His post was a blatant deception of what I actually said. But it's not their primary role in combat either - and it's' their choice whether to assist the group with orbs or not. Their role in combat is to keep their allies alive. It says it right there in the game next to what their role is in the activity finder. I suggest you go read it and stop trolling the rest of us with this notion that all healers in this game are required to equip orbs to help your sustain.

I was fairly convinced that you have some deep-rooted anger issues before I even happened to read this page. Now I'm absolutely positive you have an anger problem, sir.

Then I hope you never see me when I'm actually angry because this is nothing by comparison.

Well, that's only further proves my theory...

Jeremy

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

If they were support roles then it would say support next to them.

A lot of you are probably too young to remember, but games actually used to have support roles. They are separate from Tank and Healing roles. There are of course support aspects to any role - but their primary function is not to support the group. It is to Heal and to Tank for the group. This game does not have roles dedicated to supporting the group.

Tank and healer ARE support roles in this game. Smh my head.

No they aren't.

The are Tank and Healer roles. Obviously.

Nonexhaustive list of commonly used skills/sets in endgame content by tanks and healers primarily for their support value:

ORBS (except its actually a god tier heal also so...???)
Templar spear
Power of the Light (zero healing just for the debuff)
Liquid Lightning (sorc healer just for synergy)
Engulfing flames
Shadow Silk
Combat Prayer
WARHORN (used by all support roles in serious content)
Budding Seeds (does offer healing but is mostly used for the synergy especially when used by an OT)
Elemental Blockade (commonly used by healers and tanks to proc enchantments)
ELEMENTAL DRAIN (one of the strongest debuffs in the game, offers no heals and is pure support)
Alkosh
Torug's Pact (this and alkosh are probably the two most common tank sets and provide very little in the way of selfish stats)
Worm
Powerful Assault
IA
Olorime (at least one healer in this as well as IA is used in pretty much all endgame content. Neither set offers particularly potent "healing" bonuses and both are clearly for group support)
Hircine
Ebon (if you were going for pure selfish tankiness you would wear plague)

The existence of these skills and sets as well as many others and their extremely common use in endgame is clear evidence that tanks and healers are intended to support the group and not just taunt/heal.

Hun, stop feeding the troll. You're just wasting the bread.

Stop referring to me as a troll, hun.

You are given a wide selection of spells to choose from for a reason - so you can choose. They're not there so everyone must choose the same ones.

And I never said healers weren't meant to support the group. His post was a blatant deception of what I actually said. But it's not their primary role in combat either - and it's' their choice whether to assist the group with orbs or not. Their role in combat is to keep their allies alive. It says it right there in the game next to what their role is in the activity finder. I suggest you go read it and stop trolling the rest of us with this notion that all healers in this game are required to equip orbs to help your sustain.

I was fairly convinced that you have some deep-rooted anger issues before I even happened to read this page. Now I'm absolutely positive you have an anger problem, sir.

Then I hope you never see me when I'm actually angry because this is nothing by comparison.

Well, that's only further proves my theory...

Not really, because I'm not even angry at the moment. So if you think this is me displaying "anger issues" then I hope you never see me when I actually am angry. Lord knows what you would think of me then.

IzzyStardust

Tasear wrote: »

Nightingale707 wrote: »

@Tasear so you also do not want tanks to wear Alkosh?

IA is a support set, it supports the whole group -> the best place to put it is on a support character, especially since there are no better sets to have as a healer at the moment! I would never want a DD to wear a set I could also wear if it means that DD is giving up on DPS because of it.

But I guess healing is also a mentality thing.

There are those of us, that enjoy helping their group make the most out of it´s potential and then there are those that refuse to do so, for whatever reasons. I honestly could not think of one good reason to not want to support your group.

I am one best healers in this game and my answer is no. There's no need to try to shame with your attitude. I even did a poll once half healer in game feel same way. They just need to fix concussion that they broke in clockwork and this ambomination wouldn't go on healers. I don't main a tank nor have a reason anymore to advocate their issues.

I have seen this attitude before just because people have different goals or ambition in the game they are casual or rp. The toxic elite disgust me. It's okay to be different and successful.

That’s a matter of your opinion.

You’re perfectly entitled to it; but that doesn’t make it true.

That’s my opinion - to which I am also entitled.

I think you mean well - but I feel like there are some major gaps in your understanding, which make it hard to take other things you say seriously.

I mainly avoid your threads like the plague because I don’t want to argue or have drama, and you often take a difference of opinion as a personal attack - but I feel like the things you say = a lot of healers who learn bad practise.

Don’t get all angry please - I’m not attacking you. I’m just saying that I think you’re wrong.

The fact that you cannot understand why a healer would take IA and an end game group would take the healer with IA over a sorc or whatever, says an awful lot.

Also don’t say ‘half the healers in the game’ when referring to a forum poll you made.

The truth is: half the people on the forum who bothered to read one of your threads and reply to your poll.

That is hardly half the healers/players in game; and it is not even half the healers on the forum, and even given that demographic- it’s still only half of what’s left; and that’s not much of a representation of all the healers in the game.

lassitershawn

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

lassitershawn

Tasear wrote: »

Nightingale707 wrote: »

@Tasear so you also do not want tanks to wear Alkosh?

IA is a support set, it supports the whole group -> the best place to put it is on a support character, especially since there are no better sets to have as a healer at the moment! I would never want a DD to wear a set I could also wear if it means that DD is giving up on DPS because of it.

But I guess healing is also a mentality thing.

There are those of us, that enjoy helping their group make the most out of it´s potential and then there are those that refuse to do so, for whatever reasons. I honestly could not think of one good reason to not want to support your group.

I am one best healers in this game and my answer is no. There's no need to try to shame with your attitude. I even did a poll once half healer in game feel same way. They just need to fix concussion that they broke in clockwork and this ambomination wouldn't go on healers. I don't main a tank nor have a reason anymore to advocate their issues.

I have seen this attitude before just because people have different goals or ambition in the game they are casual or rp. The toxic elite disgust me. It's okay to be different and successful.

Whether or not IA SHOULD be a good set for healers is irrelevant to whether or not it actually is. And it is. For what it is worth most endgame healers I know seem to enjoy doing IA and giving the group extra support in that way.

therift

This thread is asinine.

Informative in parts, but asinine.

IzzyStardust

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

I just cannot wait for a year from now, or less, if you’re still playing, for all these comments to be edited - because you will come to feel differently in time, as your experience and ability grows - especially if you ever get into Vet Raiding/HMs etc.

I know a lot of dps won’t even bring a healer to DLC because of healers who play like you - and I also know how nice it is to have people comment/friend request, and thank you for ‘finally a real healer with ele, orbs and warhorn’ and that just shocks me that people really think that getting these skills in an instance is some kind of prize.

Every healer should be using these at a bare minimum.

You reply to every response with disdain, so yeah - I personally feel like yeah - you are trolling.

Not only because you’re flat wrong, but because you keep arguing the most basic of healing principles within this game.

lassitershawn

Jeremy wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

@Jeremy I feel you man everything you said is true. Yes a healers primary role is to heal, yes a GOOD healer can choose to do more, but people shouldnt automatically expect so much from other players, especially from players like yourself who is content with below mediocrity. Like I wouldn't expect everyone I meet in group finder to have a basic understanding of the game, who cares if you're being a burden to the team as long as you're having fun? #itsokaytobebad

Fine. I'll respond some more I guess.

If the healer is doing his or her job and keeping the group alive they're not a burden on the group. They may not be as much of an asset to the group as they could be - but that doesn't make them a burden either.

To your second point - I don't need help with my sustain. So if a healer chooses not to use orbs in my group I could care less. I remember dealing with this crap back when every healer was expected to use repentance. That annoyed me as well and I don't like seeing that crap rearing it's ugly head again in the form of orbs.

Any group that needs orbs to complete - especially a four man dungeon - needs to stop blaming their healer for their own shortcomings. I actually had a guy crying for orbs in Selen's Web the other day. That's just sad sorry. People need to learn how their play their own class before trying to tell other people how to play their's.

While I suppose you technically don't NEED it to complete content, you will not find a serious healer in an endgame group (DLC HM trials) not using orbs. It isn't actually an issue of people learning their class, sustain is actually limited to an extent if you're running a full DPS (read "good") build. Sustain investment on DPS builds is usually limited to an absorb magicka glyph or gold food or breton at most (usually not more than one at once, sometimes none of them). Considering you don't use orbs or think they're good, you probably think elemental drain is bad as well (one of the best sustain tools ingame), so I'm not really surprised people in your group would be complaining about sustain.

Jeremy

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group reacts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why you would love such demanding and despicable people in the first place. Sounds to me like they didn't get whipped enough as children.

lassitershawn

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

Jeremy

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

So long as you are tanking the mobs and doing your job I really don't see where the "selfishness" comes in. But ok...

If you want to so-called "optimize" for these people's benefit be my guest - just so long as you do not make such demands on the rest of us. Cause I'm not about to play my character according to the whims of some ___ ____ on the internet. But I have no problems with you playing your tank however you want. So if you want to slot war horn please do so. So long as you tank the mobs for me I got no problem.

lassitershawn

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

So long as you are tanking the mobs and doing your job I really don't see where the "selfishness" comes in. But ok...

If you want to so-called "optimize" for these people's benefit be my guest - just so long as you do not make such demands on the rest of us. Cause I'm not about to play my character according to the whims of some ___ ____ on the internet.

Because plague and leeching and magma don't make my group's job easier or contribute to their DPS whereas alkosh/torug/warhorn do (in addition to a huge plethora of other support skills/sets used in various fights/situations). I wouldn't make DEMANDS on anyone that isn't signing up for my group of their own volition but if someone wants to be taken seriously in their role there are certain expectations. I don't have a problem at all with people playing casually, just when they advertise casual gameplay as good gameplay which is probably quite misleading to newer players that actually want to get good.

Jeremy

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

@Jeremy I feel you man everything you said is true. Yes a healers primary role is to heal, yes a GOOD healer can choose to do more, but people shouldnt automatically expect so much from other players, especially from players like yourself who is content with below mediocrity. Like I wouldn't expect everyone I meet in group finder to have a basic understanding of the game, who cares if you're being a burden to the team as long as you're having fun? #itsokaytobebad

Fine. I'll respond some more I guess.

If the healer is doing his or her job and keeping the group alive they're not a burden on the group. They may not be as much of an asset to the group as they could be - but that doesn't make them a burden either.

To your second point - I don't need help with my sustain. So if a healer chooses not to use orbs in my group I could care less. I remember dealing with this crap back when every healer was expected to use repentance. That annoyed me as well and I don't like seeing that crap rearing it's ugly head again in the form of orbs.

Any group that needs orbs to complete - especially a four man dungeon - needs to stop blaming their healer for their own shortcomings. I actually had a guy crying for orbs in Selen's Web the other day. That's just sad sorry. People need to learn how their play their own class before trying to tell other people how to play their's.

While I suppose you technically don't NEED it to complete content, you will not find a serious healer in an endgame group (DLC HM trials) not using orbs. It isn't actually an issue of people learning their class, sustain is actually limited to an extent if you're running a full DPS (read "good") build. Sustain investment on DPS builds is usually limited to an absorb magicka glyph or gold food or breton at most (usually not more than one at once, sometimes none of them). Considering you don't use orbs or think they're good, you probably think elemental drain is bad as well (one of the best sustain tools ingame), so I'm not really surprised people in your group would be complaining about sustain.

I do Vet DLC dungeons all the time without "orbs".

So to suggest technically you don't "need it"" is putting it mildly.

In any case: if you want to make such specific demands of other players those players should create their own groups.

lassitershawn

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

@Jeremy I feel you man everything you said is true. Yes a healers primary role is to heal, yes a GOOD healer can choose to do more, but people shouldnt automatically expect so much from other players, especially from players like yourself who is content with below mediocrity. Like I wouldn't expect everyone I meet in group finder to have a basic understanding of the game, who cares if you're being a burden to the team as long as you're having fun? #itsokaytobebad

Fine. I'll respond some more I guess.

If the healer is doing his or her job and keeping the group alive they're not a burden on the group. They may not be as much of an asset to the group as they could be - but that doesn't make them a burden either.

To your second point - I don't need help with my sustain. So if a healer chooses not to use orbs in my group I could care less. I remember dealing with this crap back when every healer was expected to use repentance. That annoyed me as well and I don't like seeing that crap rearing it's ugly head again in the form of orbs.

Any group that needs orbs to complete - especially a four man dungeon - needs to stop blaming their healer for their own shortcomings. I actually had a guy crying for orbs in Selen's Web the other day. That's just sad sorry. People need to learn how their play their own class before trying to tell other people how to play their's.

While I suppose you technically don't NEED it to complete content, you will not find a serious healer in an endgame group (DLC HM trials) not using orbs. It isn't actually an issue of people learning their class, sustain is actually limited to an extent if you're running a full DPS (read "good") build. Sustain investment on DPS builds is usually limited to an absorb magicka glyph or gold food or breton at most (usually not more than one at once, sometimes none of them). Considering you don't use orbs or think they're good, you probably think elemental drain is bad as well (one of the best sustain tools ingame), so I'm not really surprised people in your group would be complaining about sustain.

I do Vet DLC dungeons all the time without "orbs".

So to suggest technically you don't "need it"" is putting it mildly.

In any case: if you want to make such specific demands of other players those players should create their own groups.

No offense but I seriously doubt you have cleared HM trials as a healer with no orbs or buff sets unless you paid gold for a carry.

Jeremy

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

I just cannot wait for a year from now, or less, if you’re still playing, for all these comments to be edited - because you will come to feel differently in time, as your experience and ability grows - especially if you ever get into Vet Raiding/HMs etc.

I know a lot of dps won’t even bring a healer to DLC because of healers who play like you - and I also know how nice it is to have people comment/friend request, and thank you for ‘finally a real healer with ele, orbs and warhorn’ and that just shocks me that people really think that getting these skills in an instance is some kind of prize.

Every healer should be using these at a bare minimum.

You reply to every response with disdain, so yeah - I personally feel like yeah - you are trolling.

Not only because you’re flat wrong, but because you keep arguing the most basic of healing principles within this game.

I've been playing this game since beta, so I wouldn't get your hopes up on me changing my mind.

And considering the amount of disdain you are pointing at me in your own posts - you accusing me of "trolling" on that basis is laughable hypocrisy at its finest.

I could also care less if you think I'm "flat wrong" because I know you're "flat wrong" as I've personally healed countless Vet DLCs and trials without using your precious orbs.

TARAFRAKA

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group reacts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why you would love such demanding and despicable people in the first place. Sounds to me like they didn't get whipped enough as children.

Okay dude, you're essentially just arguing semantics here. All you're saying is I don't have to do that while we're saying you probably should. That's it. That's the entire difference that has lasted across all of these pages. So maybe now we can just all leave it alone .

Jeremy

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. This dude will never do vAS HM, vCR HM or Tick tock tormentor. Cause this type of content requires the maximum out of every role and class.

Pretty sure that @Joy_Division has done all that on a Nord Templar.

Its not about Race, this was aimed for @Jeremy who thinks healers only role is to heal and not support his allies with sustain and buffs.

It is their primary role. They can choose to assist you with sustain if they wish. But that is not what their job is as a healer.

I suggest you go familiarize yourself with role descriptions in the activity finder.

Also: in the interest of not being repetitive this is probably the last notification I"m going to respond to in this thread. My box when I logged in today was stuffed to the brim and it's pointless for me to repeat the same thing a half hundred times. Only on an internet forum would stating the obvious - that it's a healer's job to heal nor is it their job to equip orbs if they do not want to - would such a obvious and true statement generate such controversy...

I would ask my detractors in this thread to try and accept the reality that not every healer on this game is going to play exactly the way they feel they should and learn to cope with that reality. Because it's very poor form to try and micro manage the way other people play their characters and demand that all healers use healing springs and orbs. Expecting them to perform the combat role they signed up for is reasonable... expecting them to use the specific strategies and skills you want them to is not.

@Jeremy I feel you man everything you said is true. Yes a healers primary role is to heal, yes a GOOD healer can choose to do more, but people shouldnt automatically expect so much from other players, especially from players like yourself who is content with below mediocrity. Like I wouldn't expect everyone I meet in group finder to have a basic understanding of the game, who cares if you're being a burden to the team as long as you're having fun? #itsokaytobebad

Fine. I'll respond some more I guess.

If the healer is doing his or her job and keeping the group alive they're not a burden on the group. They may not be as much of an asset to the group as they could be - but that doesn't make them a burden either.

To your second point - I don't need help with my sustain. So if a healer chooses not to use orbs in my group I could care less. I remember dealing with this crap back when every healer was expected to use repentance. That annoyed me as well and I don't like seeing that crap rearing it's ugly head again in the form of orbs.

Any group that needs orbs to complete - especially a four man dungeon - needs to stop blaming their healer for their own shortcomings. I actually had a guy crying for orbs in Selen's Web the other day. That's just sad sorry. People need to learn how their play their own class before trying to tell other people how to play their's.

While I suppose you technically don't NEED it to complete content, you will not find a serious healer in an endgame group (DLC HM trials) not using orbs. It isn't actually an issue of people learning their class, sustain is actually limited to an extent if you're running a full DPS (read "good") build. Sustain investment on DPS builds is usually limited to an absorb magicka glyph or gold food or breton at most (usually not more than one at once, sometimes none of them). Considering you don't use orbs or think they're good, you probably think elemental drain is bad as well (one of the best sustain tools ingame), so I'm not really surprised people in your group would be complaining about sustain.

I do Vet DLC dungeons all the time without "orbs".

So to suggest technically you don't "need it"" is putting it mildly.

In any case: if you want to make such specific demands of other players those players should create their own groups.

No offense but I seriously doubt you have cleared HM trials as a healer with no orbs or buff sets unless you paid gold for a carry.

NO offense but I"m not really that concerned with your doubts about me.

Jeremy

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group reacts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why you would love such demanding and despicable people in the first place. Sounds to me like they didn't get whipped enough as children.

Okay dude, you're essentially just arguing semantics here. All you're saying is I don't have to do that while we're saying you probably should. That's it. That's the entire difference that has lasted across all of these pages. So maybe now we can just all leave it alone .

I've tried to leave it alone. People would not let me.

And I've never said people should do anything that I can recall, outside of fulfilling their basic combat role and form their own groups if they intend on making specific demands of others.

Jeremy

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

So long as you are tanking the mobs and doing your job I really don't see where the "selfishness" comes in. But ok...

If you want to so-called "optimize" for these people's benefit be my guest - just so long as you do not make such demands on the rest of us. Cause I'm not about to play my character according to the whims of some ___ ____ on the internet.

Because plague and leeching and magma don't make my group's job easier or contribute to their DPS whereas alkosh/torug/warhorn do (in addition to a huge plethora of other support skills/sets used in various fights/situations). I wouldn't make DEMANDS on anyone that isn't signing up for my group of their own volition but if someone wants to be taken seriously in their role there are certain expectations. I don't have a problem at all with people playing casually, just when they advertise casual gameplay as good gameplay which is probably quite misleading to newer players that actually want to get good.

You tanking mobs is making the group's job easier.

So again - I"m not seeing the selfishness.

And you can be a good player without slotting one or two specific skills. You're entire argument is based on nonsense.

lassitershawn

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

So long as you are tanking the mobs and doing your job I really don't see where the "selfishness" comes in. But ok...

If you want to so-called "optimize" for these people's benefit be my guest - just so long as you do not make such demands on the rest of us. Cause I'm not about to play my character according to the whims of some ___ ____ on the internet.

Because plague and leeching and magma don't make my group's job easier or contribute to their DPS whereas alkosh/torug/warhorn do (in addition to a huge plethora of other support skills/sets used in various fights/situations). I wouldn't make DEMANDS on anyone that isn't signing up for my group of their own volition but if someone wants to be taken seriously in their role there are certain expectations. I don't have a problem at all with people playing casually, just when they advertise casual gameplay as good gameplay which is probably quite misleading to newer players that actually want to get good.

Your tanking mobs is making the group's job easier.

So again - I"m not seeing the selfishness.

If I can still tank the mobs in sets that help my group more (even if it makes the job of tanking a little bit more strenuous on me both in terms of weaker survivability and more buffs to juggle) I am being less selfish. "Selfish" set is just a common term used in the raiding community though for any set that doesn't provide a group buff/debuff, and sometimes they are acceptable to use depending on the fight/group. In general though, buff sets > selfish sets on support roles is the norm.

Jeremy

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

So long as you are tanking the mobs and doing your job I really don't see where the "selfishness" comes in. But ok...

If you want to so-called "optimize" for these people's benefit be my guest - just so long as you do not make such demands on the rest of us. Cause I'm not about to play my character according to the whims of some ___ ____ on the internet.

Because plague and leeching and magma don't make my group's job easier or contribute to their DPS whereas alkosh/torug/warhorn do (in addition to a huge plethora of other support skills/sets used in various fights/situations). I wouldn't make DEMANDS on anyone that isn't signing up for my group of their own volition but if someone wants to be taken seriously in their role there are certain expectations. I don't have a problem at all with people playing casually, just when they advertise casual gameplay as good gameplay which is probably quite misleading to newer players that actually want to get good.

Your tanking mobs is making the group's job easier.

So again - I"m not seeing the selfishness.

If I can still tank the mobs in sets that help my group more (even if it makes the job of tanking a little bit more strenuous on me both in terms of weaker survivability and more buffs to juggle) I am being less selfish. "Selfish" set is just a common term used in the raiding community though for any set that doesn't provide a group buff/debuff, and sometimes they are acceptable to use depending on the fight/group. In general though, buff sets > selfish sets on support roles is the norm.

Well that's a very silly way to use the word selfish and what ever raiding community you belong to needs to reexamine their understanding of the word.

In any case - when did the OP say he was wanting to heal Veteran HM trials? He merely mentioned healing in trials - which can easily be done without orbs or some specific set up. You are applying your own context to this conversation - which is something posters do far too often on here. Not every conversation on this board has to be in the Hard Mode Veteran Trial context.

lassitershawn

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

So long as you are tanking the mobs and doing your job I really don't see where the "selfishness" comes in. But ok...

If you want to so-called "optimize" for these people's benefit be my guest - just so long as you do not make such demands on the rest of us. Cause I'm not about to play my character according to the whims of some ___ ____ on the internet.

Because plague and leeching and magma don't make my group's job easier or contribute to their DPS whereas alkosh/torug/warhorn do (in addition to a huge plethora of other support skills/sets used in various fights/situations). I wouldn't make DEMANDS on anyone that isn't signing up for my group of their own volition but if someone wants to be taken seriously in their role there are certain expectations. I don't have a problem at all with people playing casually, just when they advertise casual gameplay as good gameplay which is probably quite misleading to newer players that actually want to get good.

Your tanking mobs is making the group's job easier.

So again - I"m not seeing the selfishness.

If I can still tank the mobs in sets that help my group more (even if it makes the job of tanking a little bit more strenuous on me both in terms of weaker survivability and more buffs to juggle) I am being less selfish. "Selfish" set is just a common term used in the raiding community though for any set that doesn't provide a group buff/debuff, and sometimes they are acceptable to use depending on the fight/group. In general though, buff sets > selfish sets on support roles is the norm.

Well that's a very silly way to use the word selfish and what ever raiding community you belong to needs to reexamine their understanding of the word.

In any case - when did the OP say he was wanting to heal Veteran HM trials? He merely mentioned healing in trials - which can easily be done without orbs. You are applying your own context to this conversation - which is something posters do far too much on here. No every conversation on this board has to be in the HM Vet Trial context.

I'm not really addressing OP so much as arguing that healer/tank roles should be actively involved in support beyond the bare minimum. I think my main question to you would be why NOT use orbs? It is a very powerful heal that provides resources to your team. What other skill is so powerful that it merits not slotting orbs? I'm really struggling with understanding your point of view on the topic because orbs isn't even just for helping your group sustain, it is actually a really strong HoT and synergy heal.

If you argument is that you CAN complete content without using it, I'll give you that one. If you're argument is that it isn't good or you shouldn't use it, that is absurd imo.

IzzyStardust

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

Jeremy

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

@Jeremy This game actually has 2 support roles: Healer and Tank. Each of them has a primary duty, keeping everyone healthy for the healer, and keeping bosses and mobs under control for the tank. Neither of these jobs is very strenious in pretty much all scenarious. You can complete them with ease wearing whatever you want, with whatever class, race, whathaveyou you desire.
This has naturally led to competant players of these roles to perform other support oriented tasks as well. Anything that helps the group complete whatever content you are doing faster and more efficienty falls to these roles. Damage dealers seek to put out the maximum damage possible at all times. Being able to spec completely out of sustain and rely on the healers for it helps towards this goal. Having all possible buffs and debuffs be provided for them also helps towards this goal.
A healer's role in eso is to support the group in every way they can, lower tier healers may only be able to keep their groups alive, but an experienced healer should be healing, giving resources, buffing allies, and debuffing enemies.

@Jeremy This is spot on. And no it doesn’t say anywhere in game that healer is support role but honestly if a healer is just there to heal then they are mostly useless and that’s why most groups run 3 DD. If you’re only healing you’re most likely just over healing and putting a crutch on the group. Like it or not it’s the truth. Play your way but no one is telling you anything other than the way it “should” be played.

It's not spot on at all. And no - a healer who chooses not to use orbs is not mostly useless.

Your job as a healer is to - wait for it - that's right - it's to heal (hard to believe I know). How much support utility they wish to equip is entirely up to them. You do not decide what other people's roles in combat are or the way it should be played. They do when they sign up for a group.

Ok I'm wearing only plague and leeching when I come to runs as a tank from now on. I'm dropping warhorn and intend to chain magma shells. It'll take about 10 minutes before my group members (who I luv btw) tell me to stop being a f***1ng r3t@rd and slot useful stuff. PvE content is a group effort and there definitely SHOULD be a certain expectation and communication within the group about what everyone is doing.

And you are contributing to the group effort by tanking the mobs....

So sorry, I don't see your point. You can still contribute to the group without slotting warhorn or w/e. So if your group recasts to you not using war horn on a video game by calling you names all I would ask is why would you love such demanding and despicable people.

We all have more or less the same attitude about contributing towards our goals as a group and we all expect that there are expectations of us. We don't consider it a burden to do more than the bare minimum to make the content easier. If EVERYONE played selfishly you would find your groups not doing near as well as an optimized group. Imagine if DPS wouldn't slot Major Slayer sets because it is a personal DPS loss for them even though it would be a huge net gain for the group.

So long as you are tanking the mobs and doing your job I really don't see where the "selfishness" comes in. But ok...

If you want to so-called "optimize" for these people's benefit be my guest - just so long as you do not make such demands on the rest of us. Cause I'm not about to play my character according to the whims of some ___ ____ on the internet.

Because plague and leeching and magma don't make my group's job easier or contribute to their DPS whereas alkosh/torug/warhorn do (in addition to a huge plethora of other support skills/sets used in various fights/situations). I wouldn't make DEMANDS on anyone that isn't signing up for my group of their own volition but if someone wants to be taken seriously in their role there are certain expectations. I don't have a problem at all with people playing casually, just when they advertise casual gameplay as good gameplay which is probably quite misleading to newer players that actually want to get good.

Your tanking mobs is making the group's job easier.

So again - I"m not seeing the selfishness.

If I can still tank the mobs in sets that help my group more (even if it makes the job of tanking a little bit more strenuous on me both in terms of weaker survivability and more buffs to juggle) I am being less selfish. "Selfish" set is just a common term used in the raiding community though for any set that doesn't provide a group buff/debuff, and sometimes they are acceptable to use depending on the fight/group. In general though, buff sets > selfish sets on support roles is the norm.

Well that's a very silly way to use the word selfish and what ever raiding community you belong to needs to reexamine their understanding of the word.

In any case - when did the OP say he was wanting to heal Veteran HM trials? He merely mentioned healing in trials - which can easily be done without orbs. You are applying your own context to this conversation - which is something posters do far too much on here. No every conversation on this board has to be in the HM Vet Trial context.

I'm not really addressing OP so much as arguing that healer/tank roles should be actively involved in support beyond the bare minimum. I think my main question to you would be why NOT use orbs? It is a very powerful heal that provides resources to your team. What other skill is so powerful that it merits not slotting orbs? I'm really struggling with understanding your point of view on the topic because orbs isn't even just for helping your group sustain, it is actually a really strong HoT and synergy heal.

If you argument is that you CAN complete content without using it, I'll give you that one. If you're argument is that it isn't good or you shouldn't use it, that is absurd imo.

And you think the bare minimum any healer on this game should do is slot a specific skill orbs to help you with your sustain?

That's quite a position you have there. Maybe I should start picking a skill I think every other person should equip to help me and demand it of everyone who plays this game. Can you honestly not see how ridiculous that is?

As to your last question: whether it's good or not is irrelevant to what I'm saying. My point is it's their character and it's their choice what skills to use. The only reasonable expectation you have is that the healer fulfill his duties as a healer - since they signed on to be a healer - not to spam orbs for your sustain. If you are going to make specific demands like that of other players you should form your own groups. That's what I am saying. And there is nothing absurd about that..