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Alright, something needs to be done about SnB
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.3 -
Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
stamsorc has no spammable at all, and stamDK technically could use venomous claw as spammable but its nowhere near jabs or surprise attack. Warden has less issues here since it can at least use birds in between shalks activation as spammable.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
stamsorc has no spammable at all, and stamDK technically could use venomous claw as spammable but its nowhere near jabs or surprise attack. Warden has less issues here since it can at least use birds in between shalks activation as spammable.
I made a build on the idea of using claws as a spammable in PvP. It didn't really turn out good. For reference I used many different proc sets(viper, poisonous serpent, sloads) to see if additional proc damage make up for lack of a real spammable, turns out it does not, proc set+spammable is 10 times more superior
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
I don't see the harm in at least trying. It doesn't have to be an exact copy of suprise attack(I'm just fine with stamblade having advantage at this point, I don't expect ANYTHING to surpass a stamblade ability in same category. Thats just clear dev bias, I won't even try to fight it.) but a spammable should be given to any class, either by class abilities or weapon abilities.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 18, 2019 10:13AM1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
stamsorc has no spammable at all, and stamDK technically could use venomous claw as spammable but its nowhere near jabs or surprise attack. Warden has less issues here since it can at least use birds in between shalks activation as spammable.
I made a build on the idea of using claws as a spammable in PvP. It didn't really turn out good. For reference I used many different proc sets(viper, poisonous serpent, sloads) to see if additional proc damage make up for lack of a real spammable, turns out it does not, proc set+spammable is 10 times more superiorRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
I don't see the harm in at least trying. It doesn't have to be an exact copy of suprise attack(I'm just fine with stamblade having advantage at this point, I don't expect ANYTHING to surpass a stamblade ability in same category at this point.) but a spammable should be given to any class, either by class abilities or weapon abilities.
Have you tried Deadly Strike on a DK? It's actually disgusting considering most of their attacks are bleeds (axes/DW) and poison based DoTs. If I was going to use nothing but DoTs as my primary source of damage, I couldn't think of a better way to do it other than Deadly Strike and master axes.
Another idea I had, if giving a spammable to classes would be difficult because of taking away from magicka morphs, was to introduce class-unique sets. They could have magicka and stamina counter-parts. For example, Stamina DK might have a set called "Venomous Akaviri" or whatever that changes molten whip into poison damage.
Stamina Sorc could have a set that replaces crystal frags with a crystal sword. Nightblades can have a set that deletes their account and uninstalls the game.
We could use some new sets obtainable in IC afterall :-D1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
stamsorc has no spammable at all, and stamDK technically could use venomous claw as spammable but its nowhere near jabs or surprise attack. Warden has less issues here since it can at least use birds in between shalks activation as spammable.
I made a build on the idea of using claws as a spammable in PvP. It didn't really turn out good. For reference I used many different proc sets(viper, poisonous serpent, sloads) to see if additional proc damage make up for lack of a real spammable, turns out it does not, proc set+spammable is 10 times more superiorRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
I don't see the harm in at least trying. It doesn't have to be an exact copy of suprise attack(I'm just fine with stamblade having advantage at this point, I don't expect ANYTHING to surpass a stamblade ability in same category at this point.) but a spammable should be given to any class, either by class abilities or weapon abilities.
Have you tried Deadly Strike on a DK? It's actually disgusting considering most of their attacks are bleeds (axes/DW) and poison based DoTs. If I was going to use nothing but DoTs as my primary source of damage, I couldn't think of a better way to do it other than Deadly Strike and master axes.
Another idea I had, if giving a spammable to classes would be difficult because of taking away from magicka morphs, was to introduce class-unique sets. They could have magicka and stamina counter-parts. For example, Stamina DK might have a set called "Venomous Akaviri" or whatever that changes molten whip into poison damage.
Stamina Sorc could have a set that replaces crystal frags with a crystal sword. Nightblades can have a set that deletes their account and uninstalls the game.
We could use some new sets obtainable in IC afterall :-D
I did not try deadly strikes yet.(gonna do it soon) However while I do think its potentially good on DK, its a more viable set for stamplars since their jabs spammable and dawnbreaker is buffed by this set, which doesn't mean its gonna suck on Dk, just saying this does not solve my problem that I'm still inferior without a fast spammable because burst is everything in this game, even more so when you are medium armor.
Your idea for sets that turn skills to stamina is actually a fun one on paper, but its still sacrificing a 5 piece bonus for the sake of having something other classes have from the get go. Its not an advantage if you have to sacrifice a 5 piece bonus for something others can have for free, even with that fact I think A LOT of people would use those sets, and it would massively increase the class populations for those two aswell, cause I believe most people avoid stamDK/stamsorc due to lacking even the most basic things you would look for on a stam build. You can get some of those things from class skills but a spammable? Thats the hardest part for some odd reason.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 18, 2019 10:44AM1 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
I mean.. are people really so selfish these days that when they demand things nerfed they do not even first think how it would affect other playstyles and pve side of things? Come on peeps, be careful on what you ask from ZOS. As i said earlier, they will destroy everything, even the things you like and think are fine and not need nerfing, they will nuke that too.
Best is to just stay quiet. Elsweyr is approaching. I am scared how much nerfs we will be getting...
Edited by Moonsorrow on March 18, 2019 10:58AM5 -
GC0✭✭✭Sure then provide stamdk, stamden and stamsorc with proper spamables and CCs for PvP that actually would work. Also have you tried just getting better at the game?PC - EU
CP 1200+
Greenkoma - EP Grand Overlord Grade 2 (50) Stamina Templar
Greencoma - DC Grand Overlord Grade 2 (50) Stamina Dragonknight
Komahh - EP Colonel Grade 1 (25) Stamina Sorcerer
I swear I'm not a tank :^)7 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
stamsorc has no spammable at all, and stamDK technically could use venomous claw as spammable but its nowhere near jabs or surprise attack. Warden has less issues here since it can at least use birds in between shalks activation as spammable.
I made a build on the idea of using claws as a spammable in PvP. It didn't really turn out good. For reference I used many different proc sets(viper, poisonous serpent, sloads) to see if additional proc damage make up for lack of a real spammable, turns out it does not, proc set+spammable is 10 times more superiorRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Certainly not salty. I just believe that heroic slash does too much, which it does. No other DD ability offers that, and especially for an instant cast. 15% damage mitigation is nothing to laugh about, nor is a 60% snare (total B.S btw) and increased ult gen, and we're talking about an ability that is used as a spammable, so 100% uptime.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
Uhm... how about a good old NO? Why does everything has to suck in this game again? Do you want stamblade to be the only viable stam class in the game?
Who says I don't want stamblades to be more down to earth? (I do, trust me and at this point I even consider medium armor stamblade in open world as cheese due to how forgiving it is), but afaik, this isn't a thread about stamblades.
But just looking and comparing Deep Slash and Heroic Slash it's quite clear which morph is the more superior one in 99/100 cases.
IF deep slash is bad, then consider buffing that morph. I don't think this is a viable solution to anything nor does it serve any purpose. OP seems salty but dual wield builds are perfectly capable of dealing with SnB.
And sure, Dual wield is strong, if you've got master weapons. The main DD spammable in that tree is rapid strikes, and it's absolutely trash.
FYI with master weapons your rending slash alone will hit like a heroic slash every 2 seconds anyways, while ignoring block and dodge roll. And thats much more light on the sustain side of things, you don't even need rapid strikes, just heavy attack into rending slash. DW doesn't have as good spammables but do you know when I have the most headache as dual wield/2h user?
When I fight stamblades/magsorcs, that just won't forgive you for using something as dumb as dizzying swing. Thats when I realize I need either a rending dw build or an SnB heroic slash build. Nerfing heroic doesn't help your case, cause like it or not as stamDk you are basically forced into heroic slash, as dizzying swing doesn't really work on Dk as well as it does for stamsorc, due to lack of speed and hurricane which auto-breaks cloak for you.
It must be nice to have SnB, which doesn't require the power of vDSA drops to be useful. The damage of rending without them is abysmal, and can easily be healed through.
Anyway, as I've mentioned countless times in previous comments, I'd be happy if they buffed useless skills in dw/2h tree and reduced or removed the snare from Heroic
Except if you want buffs to useless skills , you make a thread for that. And you don't need master axes to make dual wield work, the damage of rending without them isn't abysmal, Its still the BEST ST DOT you can get for your PvP build so stop being ridicilously biased.
I made this thread because I still think Heroic is overperforming. No counter argument exists that would change my mind. It simply does too much for a spammable, and if you bring Nightblades into this... I swear *clenches fist*
Your OP is clearly shows you want to completely pigeonhole SnB into PvE tanking. I don't care much for nightblades but if you nerf heroic slash/pierce armor, the result will be yet another weapon only viable for stamblades.
Edit: And oh, you don't need to be a macrolord to ani cancel a HS, you only need fingers faster than of a sloth.
I don't think there's much else I can say without sounding like a broken record. And yes, I use SnB myself, so I realise you don't need to use macros in order to weave it. After a bit of practice it can become second nature to anyone.
I agree there isn't much to say, other than that 2h was also once a weapon line complained about too much , people called wrecking blow easy to use ,dumb, overloaded. The nerfs to that ability and the overall meta changes completely killed 2h though.
As far as SnB meta goes the dual wield setups are already competitive with SnB ones. Thing is DW doesn't even need a spammable with all the free damage it has, Its the 2h and bow that feels out of place and pointless. Lack of instant cast spammable is a big reason for this.
I sometimes wonder if the world would be a better place if they just gave every class their own unique spammable (ie: Nightblades and Templars), then just had the weapon trees for utility (buffs/CCs) and extra applied pressure (DoTs).
At one point I used to be against it, but with the state of the weapon skill lines I'm not so sure anymore.
I don't see the harm in at least trying. It doesn't have to be an exact copy of suprise attack(I'm just fine with stamblade having advantage at this point, I don't expect ANYTHING to surpass a stamblade ability in same category at this point.) but a spammable should be given to any class, either by class abilities or weapon abilities.
Have you tried Deadly Strike on a DK? It's actually disgusting considering most of their attacks are bleeds (axes/DW) and poison based DoTs. If I was going to use nothing but DoTs as my primary source of damage, I couldn't think of a better way to do it other than Deadly Strike and master axes.
Another idea I had, if giving a spammable to classes would be difficult because of taking away from magicka morphs, was to introduce class-unique sets. They could have magicka and stamina counter-parts. For example, Stamina DK might have a set called "Venomous Akaviri" or whatever that changes molten whip into poison damage.
Stamina Sorc could have a set that replaces crystal frags with a crystal sword. Nightblades can have a set that deletes their account and uninstalls the game.
We could use some new sets obtainable in IC afterall :-D
I did not try deadly strikes yet.(gonna do it soon) However while I do think its potentially good on DK, its a more viable set for stamplars since their jabs spammable and dawnbreaker is buffed by this set, which doesn't mean its gonna suck on Dk, just saying this does not solve my problem that I'm still inferior without a fast spammable because burst is everything in this game, even more so when you are medium armor.
Your idea for sets that turn skills to stamina is actually a fun one on paper, but its still sacrificing a 5 piece bonus for the sake of having something other classes have from the get go. Its not an advantage if you have to sacrifice a 5 piece bonus for something others can have for free, even with that fact I think A LOT of people would use those sets, and it would massively increase the class populations for those two aswell, cause I believe most people avoid stamDK/stamsorc due to lacking even the most basic things you would look for on a stam build. You can get some of those things from class skills but a spammable? Thats the hardest part for some odd reason.
I didn't even think about it on stamplar actually. I'm still not 100% sure how the game differentiates between a channel and a dot, or if they are the same thing. If it buffs jabs, I'm wondering if DS would also buff rapid strikes, which might make it worthwhile..
As for the sets, yeah, I see where you're coming from. Obviously I wouldn't want them to just give a morph option, but provide other benefits as well. For instance, the 5th piece could offer them the spammable as well as weapon damage or resource management to make them more appealing.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
I don't blame people for not wanting to tank as it's the most boring role out of the lot. I even had more fun healing than standing there holding block and taunting. Modifying heroic is going to have very little impact on them.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
With my suggestion you've to decide wether you want more ultimate regen or take less damage. As it stands right now you don't have to make any choice when slotting heroic slash.
And both you and I know there are plenty of tanks in this game doing PvE content and that an adjustment to slash wouldn't reduce the population a bit.
Most tanks run ice staff as their backbar weapon anyway, and since ice has a change to apply minor main through the chilled status effect PvE tanks would be fine and use heroic slash for the extra ultimate regen.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure then provide stamdk, stamden and stamsorc with proper spamables and CCs for PvP that actually would work. Also have you tried just getting better at the game?
Yes we've been discussing that if you bothered to read the thread. Also, it's getting pretty old people using my skill level as a reason to leave heroic as it is.0 -
GC0✭✭✭Sure then provide stamdk, stamden and stamsorc with proper spamables and CCs for PvP that actually would work. Also have you tried just getting better at the game?
Yes we've been discussing that if you bothered to read the thread. Also, it's getting pretty old people using my skill level as a reason to leave heroic as it is.
If you're bad at the game then what are you doing talking about PvP? :^)PC - EU
CP 1200+
Greenkoma - EP Grand Overlord Grade 2 (50) Stamina Templar
Greencoma - DC Grand Overlord Grade 2 (50) Stamina Dragonknight
Komahh - EP Colonel Grade 1 (25) Stamina Sorcerer
I swear I'm not a tank :^)2 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
Most tanks run ice staff as their backbar weapon anyway.
And THAT was forced change because of NERF to 1h enchants.. one more example of of nerf demands (was for DW nerf, but as a side effect nerfed also tanks), yes some trial tanks used staff back for Crusher, but majority of traditional dungeoneering tanks were still double SnB, but now.. half a Crusher/Weakening, thanks for nerf demands.
Thanks for reminding about that nerf too.
See?
Just wait until Elsweyr and how unhappy people will be for asking for nerfs, they will do overkill on them as always.
*deep sigh*
Edit: And no, no there is not enough pve tanks, you know how long people have to wait for tanks at dungeon group finder for Vet dungeons? All other roles fill up fast. I hear this from everyone. Many tanks i know has left when just nerf after nert, to both fun on the playstyle, nerfs to efficiency, less and less choices. Yeah, some market nerfs as "now you have to choose what you want.." but, trust me, tanks already are tight on what they can squeeze in on their bars/builds and people expect them to be personal jesus on top of that lol. Its pain (coming from a tank)Edited by Moonsorrow on March 18, 2019 11:14AM4 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure then provide stamdk, stamden and stamsorc with proper spamables and CCs for PvP that actually would work. Also have you tried just getting better at the game?
Yes we've been discussing that if you bothered to read the thread. Also, it's getting pretty old people using my skill level as a reason to leave heroic as it is.
If you're bad at the game then what are you doing talking about PvP? :^)
I never said I was bad at the game. If all you can do is talk nonsense why are you contributing to balance discussions?1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
Most tanks run ice staff as their backbar weapon anyway.
And THAT was forced change because of NERF to 1h enchants.. one more example of of nerf demands (was for DW nerf, but as a side effect nerfed also tanks), yes some trial tanks used staff back for Crusher, but majority of traditional dungeoneering tanks were still double SnB, but now.. half a Crusher/Weakening, thanks for nerf demands.
Thanks for reminding about that nerf too.
See?
Just wait until Elsweyr and how unhappy people will be for asking for nerfs, they will do overkill on them as always.
*deep sigh*
Edit: And no, no there is not enough pve tanks, you know how long people have to wait for tanks at dungeon group finder for Vet dungeons? All other roles fill up fast. I hear this from everyone. Many tanks i know has left when just nerf after nert, to both fun on the playstyle, nerfs to efficiency, less and less choices. Yeah, some market nerfs as "now you have to choose what you want.." but, trust me, tanks already are tight on what they can squeeze in on their bars/builds and people expect them to be personal jesus on top of that lol. Its pain (coming from a tank)
Tanks used ice or lightning backbar way before the nerf to enchants tho....0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
Most tanks run ice staff as their backbar weapon anyway.
And THAT was forced change because of NERF to 1h enchants.. one more example of of nerf demands (was for DW nerf, but as a side effect nerfed also tanks), yes some trial tanks used staff back for Crusher, but majority of traditional dungeoneering tanks were still double SnB, but now.. half a Crusher/Weakening, thanks for nerf demands.
Thanks for reminding about that nerf too.
See?
Just wait until Elsweyr and how unhappy people will be for asking for nerfs, they will do overkill on them as always.
*deep sigh*
Edit: And no, no there is not enough pve tanks, you know how long people have to wait for tanks at dungeon group finder for Vet dungeons? All other roles fill up fast. I hear this from everyone. Many tanks i know has left when just nerf after nert, to both fun on the playstyle, nerfs to efficiency, less and less choices. Yeah, some market nerfs as "now you have to choose what you want.." but, trust me, tanks already are tight on what they can squeeze in on their bars/builds and people expect them to be personal jesus on top of that lol. Its pain (coming from a tank)
Tanks used ice or lightning backbar way before the nerf to enchants tho....
Yes, i said they did, I`ve done too.. for Crusher back bar.
BUT; the thing is, there was a CHOICE it was not needed, one could use double SnB and have full enchant power on both bars. Double SnB has been a good choice, and yes - one could use SnB/staff or SnB/Bow, but.. now double SnB is obsolete if wants to have full strenght enchant for Crusher.
LESS options on what to use because of nerfs.
How much more i need to explain about it? Nerfs has made tanking have less choices, because before could choose from all that is now, but also double SnB.
You understand what i am trying to say, right?3 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me try and say this as clear as can (with my poor english): all the nerfs during all these years have made efficient choices on builds more and more narrow to the point that there really is not much choices anymore to do soon.
Even for pvp sort of. People want every skill nerfed that kills them or protects the other from dying. Result: the current meta where swarms of tanks crawl in endless snares.
That is is the result. And still people ask more nerfs. You should know already, ZOS is not able to do slight adjustments, they destroy things completely. Never forget what happened to all sources of Speed. Never forget that. Just saying.
Edited by Moonsorrow on March 18, 2019 11:31AM2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Never forget what happened to all sources of Speed. Never forget that. Just saying.
The 60% snare on a popular spammable in PvP doesn't exactly help that. Just saying.
0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Never forget what happened to all sources of Speed. Never forget that. Just saying.
The 60% snare on a popular spammable in PvP doesn't exactly help that. Just saying.
I agree on that, and personally would not mind that snare being taken off from that skill, but.. i would not ask/demand it. Since i know they will just not stop there but do other completely crazy changes on top of it.
Learned this during all these years lol.
If something is just a bit "strong" in some combinations, i rather live with it than ask it destroyed and risk other things i like get destroyed too. Because thats what people always see happening in the end. You know, even the streamers go roll eyes and "no one asked for this.." and sigh because of crazy changes. Oh but some did, the people who keep demanding nerfing this and that each day.
Oh well, me lecturing about it not gonna help. It will be nightmare again at Elsweyr for sure when reading patch notes.
1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭No one uses heroic slash + bash without running out of stam very, very fast, especially in 5 heavy. You need a huge amount of regen to go through a rotation like that for a sustained period of time.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer4 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭The snare on heroic is hefty and could possibly use a reduction. The damage and minor main are fine. They contribute to the relatively high cost of the skill. Also, bash weaving is rather costly. One cannot endlessly bash cancel unless they build for it, which would lower their damage.
I could see deep slash morph retaining the 60% snare applying to all targets hit, and heroic lowering the snare while gaining minor heroism. The complaints of the OP are over the top, and do not function well in regards to how abilities/morphs are balanced in this game.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
I don't blame people for not wanting to tank as it's the most boring role out of the lot. I even had more fun healing than standing there holding block and taunting. Modifying heroic is going to have very little impact on them.
Tanking is plenty of fun in group content. It is just horrible in anything solo. Even just collecting surveys with my tank is annoying if their are any mobs near the nodes.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Heroic Slash is overtuned, and there's no reason to run the other morph (deep slash)
Move minor maim to deep slash and keep minor heroism on heroic slash. Reduce or remove the snare completely. Potentially lower tooltip of the skill a bit.
NO. Remember there are things like pve TANKS that actually been needing and using the skill as it is.. and you would nerf it.. just because?
Enough of these nerf suggestions please.
Guess how many tanks there are left in this game anymore when they just all the time are nerfed because of people dying and crying at pvp. And yes, i say this as a 99% pvp player.
Enough.
Most tanks run ice staff as their backbar weapon anyway.
And THAT was forced change because of NERF to 1h enchants.. one more example of of nerf demands (was for DW nerf, but as a side effect nerfed also tanks), yes some trial tanks used staff back for Crusher, but majority of traditional dungeoneering tanks were still double SnB, but now.. half a Crusher/Weakening, thanks for nerf demands.
Thanks for reminding about that nerf too.
See?
Just wait until Elsweyr and how unhappy people will be for asking for nerfs, they will do overkill on them as always.
*deep sigh*
Edit: And no, no there is not enough pve tanks, you know how long people have to wait for tanks at dungeon group finder for Vet dungeons? All other roles fill up fast. I hear this from everyone. Many tanks i know has left when just nerf after nert, to both fun on the playstyle, nerfs to efficiency, less and less choices. Yeah, some market nerfs as "now you have to choose what you want.." but, trust me, tanks already are tight on what they can squeeze in on their bars/builds and people expect them to be personal jesus on top of that lol. Its pain (coming from a tank)
Sure, there is a shortage in dungeon pugs.
But if I look at people recruiting to pug Trials in Craglorn, the last few slots always seem to be DPS. In my guilds, we are never waiting for final tank to start a trial. I personally don't want more people tanking when tanks are only 2 out of 12 in trials.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SnB spammables shouldn't be touched before every class has a viable spammable in their kit.
The only thing that needs fixed ASAP is the ridiculous carry called reverb bash. The animation is broken (worse than draining shot) and having major defile on an active skill that also cc's is just bad design. Befoul only makes it that much more dumb. So many people getting carried by this skill.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SnB spammables shouldn't be touched before every class has a viable spammable in their kit.
The only thing that needs fixed ASAP is the ridiculous carry called reverb bash. The animation is broken (worse than draining shot) and having major defile on an active skill that also cc's is just bad design. Befoul only makes it that much more dumb. So many people getting carried by this skill.
Yes, if they were to modify the SnB skills I would certainly like to see some more spammable DD options. I do agree with you about reverb, it's definitely a really strong skill. It's probably one of the reasons I feel like heroic is doing so much damage - because I'm barely healing through the barrage of LA-HS-Bash rotations.
But I think I've annoyed enough people with this topic. Going after reverb in the same thread will only have them foaming at the mouth.1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Would cause pve tanks to have more leveling issues and issues dealing with overland content. Take note already shortage because problem already exists but would grow with change.
Have you tried counterplay options for heavy amour? Why isn't it working?Edited by Tasear on March 19, 2019 9:51AM0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Who levels with heroic slash? Just slot it on your bar and AOE everything down if you're levelling your character/skills. Why waste your time slashing at things one by one?2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How about this: Nerf the damage heroic/ransack provides, but allow the full value of glyphs (similar to 2h) if you have a shield equipped.
0 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the number of "DPS Tanks" in PvP is getting out of control. It should not be possible to hit a 10k heroic slash tooltip with above capped resistances, especially considering all the other utility it provides. Quite frankly, HS is overloaded.
My suggestion is simple: Remove, or significantly reduce the damage portion of this skill, as well as puncture. They were made to be utility abilities for tanks, not to outdamage a medium armor build smashing you with dizzying swing.
Tanks do not need to be dealing the amount of damage they do while also having the gift of immortality. I'd go further to also reduce the damage of bash (interrupt, not the SnB skill).
Please note, I'm just asking for the damage part to be taken away. So this should not affect PvE as the utility of these skills are completely left in place. In fact, with the damage part completely nerfed you could make up for it by reducing the cost of the skill by 3-5%
This guy really deleted my comment lol. Once again this thread is a pure salt thread. Anyway, he doesn't want balance he's salty that somebody he couldn't kill with dizzy swing turned around and killed him with heroic slash. He wants the player gimped so that the next time he sees them he'll have a better chance than when he got packed up. Don't be fooled by him painting it as a call for balance lol. We've all been there in a duel before. You know when you beat someone while using heroic slash or bleeds or cloak or purge or harness magicka and they tell you "the only reason you beat me was because you were using one of the above" so you drop whatever skill they are complaining about pack them up again and then they give you another excuse other than just admitting they were outplayed. That is him all day. He was outplayed and can't handle it so he is blaming heroic slash instead of his lack of skill.4