The first Altmer racial passive feels useless on sorcs...

argouru · March 2019

So basically if I want to give up a little damage for more magicka sustain on my sorc, it'd be better to use one of the racial change tokens to change him from altmer to Breton?

zaria · March 2019

Browiseth wrote: »

you mean you don't cc break? block? the ocassional dodge roll out of panic or desperation?

I do all of these things on my magicka dk. stamina is useful to some degree on everyone

The stamina regen is nice in PvP, in PvE its more of an rater weak utility, Bosmer also has weak utility for PvE.
Yes its nice in some fights but here you can use three stat potions or other fixes for that fight.
Remember using stamina food on my low cp healer in vet Direfrost.

Altmer could not get magic regen as it would make them OP who would result in magic or spell power nerfs.
They could gotten an proc version of the Khajiit 3 stat regen, or other survival buffs like +shield strength.

If anything Breton is a bit OP, looking at Redguards and Bosmer on the stamina side.
However we are talking about 300 dps on 60K parses.

Imryll · March 2019

siddique wrote: »

99 percent of the people complaining about racial passives will see no difference in their dps or game play. You aren't in the .1 percent get over it please.

It's not the loss of DPS, it's the the fussing. 6-second shields, not being able to cast the spell you want to cast because you don't have enough magicka. Busy work isn't fun--and it's as unfun for the 99% as it is for the 1%. I'm not all that concerned about DPS, but I do notice (and care!) when things don't flow.

p00tx · March 2019

Vandril wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

and now some are not even viable for end game at all.

Yes they are.

I don't like being "that guy", but this is a pet peeve of mine. Please don't confuse "not the meta" with "not viable". Every single race is perfectly viable for every (reasonable) build of every class for every single piece of content in the game, some are just not part of the hyper-min-maxed meta.

I did say "end game", which is a pretty specific part of the game. Maybe I should have specified "end-game PvE". If I'm on a score run and I can't go more than 10 seconds without some Orc Stamsorc unicorn build screaming "Moar Orbs now!!! Why u no send me orbs stoopid heelerz?!?!", as I'm desperately trying to keep their squishy, no resource having behind alive, then that is not a viable build for end-game.

WrathOfInnos · March 2019

argouru wrote: »

So basically if I want to give up a little damage for more magicka sustain on my sorc, it'd be better to use one of the racial change tokens to change him from altmer to Breton?

@argouru

I’ve come to the conclusion that Altmer is best for damage if your only investment in sustain is the 319 recovery from Clockwork Citrus Filet or Witchmother’s Brew. If you have to add a sustain set, or an Absorb Magicka weapon enchant, or a Magicka Recovery or cost reduction jewelry glyph, then you’re better off going Breton.

Even if regen food is your only sustain tool as Altmer, swapping to Breton allows you to use blue bistat food instead and see the same sustain, with about 1% DPS loss (not noticeable for most players) and gain about 2k health (very noticeable for most players).

Ogou · March 2019

p00tx wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

and now some are not even viable for end game at all.

Yes they are.

I don't like being "that guy", but this is a pet peeve of mine. Please don't confuse "not the meta" with "not viable". Every single race is perfectly viable for every (reasonable) build of every class for every single piece of content in the game, some are just not part of the hyper-min-maxed meta.

I did say "end game", which is a pretty specific part of the game. Maybe I should have specified "end-game PvE". If I'm on a score run and I can't go more than 10 seconds without some Orc Stamsorc unicorn build screaming "Moar Orbs now!!! Why u no send me orbs stoopid heelerz?!?!", as I'm desperately trying to keep their squishy, no resource having behind alive, then that is not a viable build for end-game.

But if you're going for score runs you're going for one specific ideal setup, right? So no matter what ZOS does most of races are not even going to be an option. So I'm not sure what the complaint actually is here.

MrBrownstone · March 2019

Useless on Sorcerers?

Is it even useful for any other class at all?

ezio45 · March 2019

MrBumblefoot wrote: »

Useless on Sorcerers?

Is it even useful for any other class at all?

No

Bhelen · March 2019

Nah I love it. Trying to sustain break free in No-CP battlegrounds/cyro would be impossible without it. I use to run shacklebreaker and after that I switched argonian for the potion passive. Now that I'm high elf I can drop both of those for alot of damage.

As for dark elf I'd rather have the return high elf has than a flat number when it comes to secondary resources. Primary resouces affect tooltips but I think when it comes to stamina on a mag damage character the sustain is more important than max stat.

Its especially good on my sorc when I hit dark deal it restores some of the stam it costs. On a Mag DK you could restore stam while block casting. It has wonderful utlity potentials

ArchMikem · March 2019

argouru wrote: »

I looked over the new racial passives last night and realized that the first one is basically useless to magicka-focused characters, esp. sorcs who have shields and little reason to use stamina at all (at least in my experience). Does anyone else feel the same way about this particular passive?

Lol Khajiits have been like that forever. It was pointless for a Mag Khajiit to waste skillpoints into Carnage before.

ListerJMC · March 2019

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

For PVP: Dunmer. I prefer flat stam value than stam sustain (although is good for magplar and magdk) and that spell damage boost is good for increase damage for our burst combo,

About Breton: I still get the same mag stat as dunmer because i need to use some stam glyph while on dunmer i don't.

Do you feel that the Dunmer's Stamina bonus serves you better?

My main is an Altmer melee MagBlade, and I've been running Leeching Strikes and Relentless Focus (along with a Stam Recovery glyph on my jewelry) to keep my Stamina topped off. I feel like Spell Recharge dovetails pretty well with this, but I'm concerned it might be overkill and that the increase to the overall pool might be better.

I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts on it.

The Altmer regeneration is conditional on casting a class skill every 6 seconds and having a low stamina pool when it procs, and you need to proc it a few times to get back the same amount of stamina that a Dunmer has from the start. In a longer fight I can see Altmer sliding ahead if you keep meeting those two conditions (but a lot of the time I find it procs when I don't need it, meaning I'm getting no passive benefit at all), but for the most part I find Dunmer does it better.

Seraphayel · March 2019

siddique wrote: »

99 percent of the people complaining about racial passives will see no difference in their dps or game play. You aren't in the .1 percent get over it please.

This must be said again and again. People freak out about racials when the one thing which might cost them a lot more DPS is incorrect weaving/animation cancelling.

joseayalac · March 2019

It's absolutely great passive for tanking, did you know people run the "Balance" skill from Mages guild on DK tanks?

D0PAMINE · March 2019

I love the free damage boost, but honestly, I miss Magician and Warlord from pre Morrowind.

Vandril · March 2019

p00tx wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

and now some are not even viable for end game at all.

Yes they are.

I don't like being "that guy", but this is a pet peeve of mine. Please don't confuse "not the meta" with "not viable". Every single race is perfectly viable for every (reasonable) build of every class for every single piece of content in the game, some are just not part of the hyper-min-maxed meta.

I did say "end game", which is a pretty specific part of the game. Maybe I should have specified "end-game PvE". If I'm on a score run and I can't go more than 10 seconds without some Orc Stamsorc unicorn build screaming "Moar Orbs now!!! Why u no send me orbs stoopid heelerz?!?!", as I'm desperately trying to keep their squishy, no resource having behind alive, then that is not a viable build for end-game.

That still doesn't make it unviable, it just makes it not ideal. You can complete a score run reasonably well with a non-perfect setup, but you will most likely not compete for the top score. In other words, the content can be completed perfectly fine, just not as fine as that other group over yonder. This means the non-perfect setups are still viable, but not min-maxed and not the meta.

I mean, I totally get what you're saying; if you're vying for top score, it'll be hellishly hard to do without a perfect setup. But something not being min-maxed or granting you a disadvantage does not make it innately unviable, it makes it non-meta.

ListerJMC · March 2019

joseayalac wrote: »

It's absolutely great passive for tanking, did you know people run the "Balance" skill from Mages guild on DK tanks?

ezio45 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

argouru wrote: »

I looked over the new racial passives last night and realized that the first one is basically useless to magicka-focused characters, esp. sorcs who have shields and little reason to use stamina at all (at least in my experience). Does anyone else feel the same way about this particular passive?

It's mildly useful for Altmer tanks who prioritize magicka over stamina.

The main problem I have with the passive isn't the passive necessarily. It's the fact it came at the cost of our magicka regen bonuses. If they had just added the passive as a stand alone I wouldn't have had any problems with it.

who would make an altmer tank

in what world is that a thing that should be brought into consideration

mag tanking is a failed experiment of zos and even if your are doing that argonian would be 1000X more suited for it

Okay so... I actually have an Altmer DK tank that I use at end game (it's a former dps I'm attached to and don't want to change).

The magicka regeneration is okay but not super useful given I run balance. Pushing magicka higher to regain stamina was an interesting experiment, but it messes you up for shards and orbs and ultimately isn't worth it (unless maybe if you never run with people who use those skills, but even then there are better sustain race options). I would not advise Altmer for a tank although it's doable.

If the passive restored whatever was lowest by number instead of lowest maximum stat, that would be more interesting.

idk · March 2019

To suggest the passives is useless as OP has seems to only show very limited playing experience. Yes, it is probably useless to someone who does not so much but I can say with certainty I dodge roll and block on my magicka characters.

Granted, as long as I avoid any content that offers some actual challenge I do not need to dodge roll or block. So I guess the passives is useless to those that avoid such things.

Yes, when Zos changed the passive to this I was left scratching my head. But to say it is useless is clearly false and either a weak attempt to be dramatic or due to the lack of experience as I stated above.

Korah_Eaglecry · March 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

My Altmer came out hitting harder than it had before the racial changes. Granted Im not a min/maxer but my only complaint with all the changes is that my Bosmer feels less stealthy than before and I built her as a thief/assassin so its a bit obnoxious.

Check your sustain, though. Depending on your build, you'll have lost about the equivalent of a magicka regen glyph.

Its quite possible. I havent really done much with him since Im on console and with all the issues yesterday I wasnt able to really look closer at my characters. Just noticed that in general Im hitting harder than before. Im sure in more prolonged fights thats going to be an issue for that character. But for now, at least until I find something to work with hes fine doing more damage. I just wont take him near more difficult content til I figure it all out.

gepe87 · March 2019

"milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Do you feel that the Dunmer's Stamina bonus serves you better?

My main is an Altmer melee MagBlade, and I've been running Leeching Strikes and Relentless Focus (along with a Stam Recovery glyph on my jewelry) to keep my Stamina topped off. I feel like Spell Recharge dovetails pretty well with this, but I'm concerned it might be overkill and that the increase to the overall pool might be better.

I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts on it.

Unfortunatly I don't play Magblade, I wrote about magsorc pvp where having stam is very important because you have to dogde a few times to gain some immunity (sorc dont have a dedicated skill to this, like wings or foward momemtum on stams).
BTW i think that any burst build should prioritize spell damage and raw stats. Classes with more sustained that rely on dots damage,Templar and MagDK would be more effective to use Breton and Altmer.

On PVE, hands down, Breton is bis for mag, although a Dunmer or Altmer pet magsorc build could be more efficient: you can maximize spell damage and max magicka (even with backbar staff with spell damage glyph) just because you dont have sustain issues (with lightning staff HA rotation).

Lord-Otto · March 2019

Starlock wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

My Altmer came out hitting harder than it had before the racial changes. Granted Im not a min/maxer but my only complaint with all the changes is that my Bosmer feels less stealthy than before and I built her as a thief/assassin so its a bit obnoxious.

Check your sustain, though. Depending on your build, you'll have lost about the equivalent of a magicka regen glyph.

Yup, I definitely did. I also lost some of his magicka pool on top of that.

Really? That depends on your sets. You can make up for that by using max stat five-pieces, they got buffed. My PvE pet sorc with Necropotence now easily surpasses 50k mag. Juicy!

argouru · March 2019

ListerJMC wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

For PVP: Dunmer. I prefer flat stam value than stam sustain (although is good for magplar and magdk) and that spell damage boost is good for increase damage for our burst combo,

About Breton: I still get the same mag stat as dunmer because i need to use some stam glyph while on dunmer i don't.

Do you feel that the Dunmer's Stamina bonus serves you better?

My main is an Altmer melee MagBlade, and I've been running Leeching Strikes and Relentless Focus (along with a Stam Recovery glyph on my jewelry) to keep my Stamina topped off. I feel like Spell Recharge dovetails pretty well with this, but I'm concerned it might be overkill and that the increase to the overall pool might be better.

I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts on it.

The Altmer regeneration is conditional on casting a class skill every 6 seconds and having a low stamina pool when it procs, and you need to proc it a few times to get back the same amount of stamina that a Dunmer has from the start. In a longer fight I can see Altmer sliding ahead if you keep meeting those two conditions (but a lot of the time I find it procs when I don't need it, meaning I'm getting no passive benefit at all), but for the most part I find Dunmer does it better.

The only real use for the passive is when you keep spamming (insert name of class skill that turns you to lightning and lets you run faster that I can't remember at the moment) so that you can run for longer.

Also, to understand my thinking, I should clarify that I only play pve (can't stand playing any pvp modes in any games, personally speaking)

theyancey · March 2019

Useless on magdens

Alucardo · March 2019

It's actually kind of helpful. Just means more dark conversions, plus you take 5% reduced damage while casting it. It's a shame that ZOS are actually making people think about resource management instead of handing it to them. If you want brainless magicka sustain, then go with Breton. If you want damage then stay with Altmer. You can't have it both ways anymore.

Onefrkncrzypope · March 2019

It's op when picked flowers between dungeon ques

ezio45 · March 2019

ListerJMC wrote: »

joseayalac wrote: »

It's absolutely great passive for tanking, did you know people run the "Balance" skill from Mages guild on DK tanks?

ezio45 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

argouru wrote: »

I looked over the new racial passives last night and realized that the first one is basically useless to magicka-focused characters, esp. sorcs who have shields and little reason to use stamina at all (at least in my experience). Does anyone else feel the same way about this particular passive?

It's mildly useful for Altmer tanks who prioritize magicka over stamina.

The main problem I have with the passive isn't the passive necessarily. It's the fact it came at the cost of our magicka regen bonuses. If they had just added the passive as a stand alone I wouldn't have had any problems with it.

who would make an altmer tank

in what world is that a thing that should be brought into consideration

mag tanking is a failed experiment of zos and even if your are doing that argonian would be 1000X more suited for it

Okay so... I actually have an Altmer DK tank that I use at end game (it's a former dps I'm attached to and don't want to change).

The magicka regeneration is okay but not super useful given I run balance. Pushing magicka higher to regain stamina was an interesting experiment, but it messes you up for shards and orbs and ultimately isn't worth it (unless maybe if you never run with people who use those skills, but even then there are better sustain race options). I would not advise Altmer for a tank although it's doable.

If the passive restored whatever was lowest by number instead of lowest maximum stat, that would be more interesting.

ya but again its not a big enough percent of the population to make a passive for, especially when the main population hates this passive

6point6b16_ESO · March 2019

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ZOS is incompetent.
That is all.

lol get over it..

Koronach · March 2019

6point6b16_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ZOS is incompetent.
That is all.

lol get over it..

No

argouru · March 2019

Alucardo wrote: »

It's actually kind of helpful. Just means more dark conversions, plus you take 5% reduced damage while casting it. It's a shame that ZOS are actually making people think about resource management instead of handing it to them. If you want brainless magicka sustain, then go with Breton. If you want damage then stay with Altmer. You can't have it both ways anymore.

Well in vet-level content these days, 0% resources = dead, so I'm strongly leaning more towards Breton, esp. if the damage loss is so low (someone above said it was only a 1% damage loss if I recall correctly).

Starlock · March 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

My Altmer came out hitting harder than it had before the racial changes. Granted Im not a min/maxer but my only complaint with all the changes is that my Bosmer feels less stealthy than before and I built her as a thief/assassin so its a bit obnoxious.

Check your sustain, though. Depending on your build, you'll have lost about the equivalent of a magicka regen glyph.

Yup, I definitely did. I also lost some of his magicka pool on top of that.

Really? That depends on your sets. You can make up for that by using max stat five-pieces, they got buffed. My PvE pet sorc with Necropotence now easily surpasses 50k mag. Juicy!

I'm not a power gaming min-maxer, though. I stick to a character concept, and my sorcerer is a lightning mage, not a daedric summoner. Honestly, most of the time changes the developers make to game mechanics don't really impact me. Or where they do, they work out in my favor because I don't stick to cookie cutter setups. When folks raise a fuss about this thing or the other thing, I'm typically the first person to be rolling my eyes behind the screen and shrugging my shoulders at it.

However, even I'm beginning to see what the sorcerer players are complaining about. Several patches in a row have diminished various aspects of my beloved lightning mage, the cumulative effects of which are becoming noticeable even to a player like me. I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe that last run was just a fluke? I'll have to run around with him some more to be sure. Either way, the passive is still pretty dumb and useless compared to before. But my altmer is who he is, and he's not going to go transracial just because the gods mutated his DNA for some reason.

Alucardo · March 2019

argouru wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It's actually kind of helpful. Just means more dark conversions, plus you take 5% reduced damage while casting it. It's a shame that ZOS are actually making people think about resource management instead of handing it to them. If you want brainless magicka sustain, then go with Breton. If you want damage then stay with Altmer. You can't have it both ways anymore.

Well in vet-level content these days, 0% resources = dead, so I'm strongly leaning more towards Breton, esp. if the damage loss is so low (someone above said it was only a 1% damage loss if I recall correctly).

But what I don't understand is, how are you running out of resources in the first place? Heavy attacks restore a significant amount of magicka/stam back, then there's elemental drain, dark conversion, and other passives I may be forgetting. If you're running out of resources it's because you're doing nothing but going ham on your DD abilities.