The first Altmer racial passive feels useless on sorcs...

joseayalac

ListerJMC wrote: »

Okay so... I actually have an Altmer DK tank that I use at end game (it's a former dps I'm attached to and don't want to change).

The magicka regeneration is okay but not super useful given I run balance. Pushing magicka higher to regain stamina was an interesting experiment, but it messes you up for shards and orbs and ultimately isn't worth it (unless maybe if you never run with people who use those skills, but even then there are better sustain race options). I would not advise Altmer for a tank although it's doable.

Maybe this passive is enough to keep you from running Balance on an Altmer tank, it is a dangerous skill since it costs you health and diminishes your healing received.

Obviously there are better race choices for tanking, but Altmer are more viable now for the role. Also they take less damage while channeling Meditate, a skill that tanks are beginning to use more and more.

On the other hand, it also makes Altmer viable for a lot of PVP builds. Just because a passive isn't good for PVE DDs, it doesn't mean it's not good (Altmer are still good DDs though).

Altmer are suitable for more playstyles now, which I think is a very good thing.

So yeah, I will make a discussion about why the new Bosmer passives aren't useful for my Magplar PVE DD or something like that! LOL! xD

mikemacon

Yep.

Because sorcs don’t ever have to roll dodge, break free, or sprint.

::turns and stares into camera::

CatchMeTrolling

Sounds like you only play pve. Plus pve sustain is much easier than pvp sustain so even with the change you shouldn’t be struggling with your resources.

argouru

Starlock wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

My Altmer came out hitting harder than it had before the racial changes. Granted Im not a min/maxer but my only complaint with all the changes is that my Bosmer feels less stealthy than before and I built her as a thief/assassin so its a bit obnoxious.

Check your sustain, though. Depending on your build, you'll have lost about the equivalent of a magicka regen glyph.

Yup, I definitely did. I also lost some of his magicka pool on top of that.

Really? That depends on your sets. You can make up for that by using max stat five-pieces, they got buffed. My PvE pet sorc with Necropotence now easily surpasses 50k mag. Juicy!

I'm not a power gaming min-maxer, though. I stick to a character concept, and my sorcerer is a lightning mage, not a daedric summoner. Honestly, most of the time changes the developers make to game mechanics don't really impact me. Or where they do, they work out in my favor because I don't stick to cookie cutter setups. When folks raise a fuss about this thing or the other thing, I'm typically the first person to be rolling my eyes behind the screen and shrugging my shoulders at it.

However, even I'm beginning to see what the sorcerer players are complaining about. Several patches in a row have diminished various aspects of my beloved lightning mage, the cumulative effects of which are becoming noticeable even to a player like me. I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe that last run was just a fluke? I'll have to run around with him some more to be sure. Either way, the passive is still pretty dumb and useless compared to before. But my altmer is who he is, and he's not going to go transracial just because the gods mutated his DNA for some reason.

But... YOU are his god!

Jeremy

ezio45 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

argouru wrote: »

I looked over the new racial passives last night and realized that the first one is basically useless to magicka-focused characters, esp. sorcs who have shields and little reason to use stamina at all (at least in my experience). Does anyone else feel the same way about this particular passive?

It's mildly useful for Altmer tanks who prioritize magicka over stamina.

The main problem I have with the passive isn't the passive necessarily. It's the fact it came at the cost of our magicka regen bonuses. If they had just added the passive as a stand alone I wouldn't have had any problems with it.

who would make an altmer tank

in what world is that a thing that should be brought into consideration

mag tanking is a failed experiment of zos and even if your are doing that argonian would be 1000X more suited for it

I would.

They can be fun and are pretty good. I tank veteran DLC all the time as my magicka Altmer tank. They are also very good at soloing. As to whether or not Argonian would be better - that's irrelevant really to my point. Even if that's true - it still doesn't change what I said in that the spell charge passive is still mildly useful for Altmer tanks who prioritize magicka over stamina. I never claimed Altmer was the best race for it.

ok fine but its not a large enough portion of the population to make it relevant when taking into consideration the usefulness of the passive

Highborn isn't exactly useful either, especially after the character has leveled.

NinchiTV

I mean being able to roll dodge then knowing if i cast harden ward my stam is full again is nice. But ya i agree, would like it more if it returned based on higher resource.

nuttytom

The change is actually insanely good for PvP.

Razorback174

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

I mean being able to roll dodge then knowing if i cast harden ward my stam is full again is nice. But ya i agree, would like it more if it returned based on higher resource.

A dodge roll is 3654 stamina without any reduction (which let's be honest, most magic characters don't have any reduction).

A single cast of harden ward just netted you 575 stamina. That is just less than 1/6 the stamina cost you just used to dodge. and with the cooldown, you won't see another 575 stamina for another 6 seconds, considering you keep the proc uptime. In between, only whatever your current stamina regen is refilling your stamina bar (which again, as a magic character, is still probably crap).

The stamina return is so horrendously marginal. You might be able to pull off one more dodge roll than you used to, but that's probably about it.

And for all you people saying "Well, it's good for PvP," then this is an example of a total failure of a passive. A good passive should be balanced and useful for ALL aspects of the game, not just a particular sect of PvP or PvE. Spell Recharge falls into the same category as Hunter's Eye, a passive only applicable for niche roles in PvP while falling absolutely flat in PvE. So much so that some people who mainly live in PvE see no worth even investing their skillpoints in these passives anymore.

FrancisCrawford

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

My Altmer came out hitting harder than it had before the racial changes. Granted Im not a min/maxer but my only complaint with all the changes is that my Bosmer feels less stealthy than before and I built her as a thief/assassin so its a bit obnoxious.

I've been playing my Breton sorcerer rather than my Altmer one, which is fine since he was my original main way back when the game was young.

As for my thief -- he's now named "Grumpy Ex Wood Elf".

Jayman1000

Digiman wrote: »

Which one? Spell charged? ZoS has made it clear it racials are meant to add flavor to making characters not be a fundamental choice.

My only complaint is racials shouldn't cost skill points to activate in the first place.

In that case why do orc's then still get that super duper speed bonus and sprint cost reduction? Mind you, I'd like it to stay this way, I LIKE the racial differences. IMO race should be a fundamental choice. It still is btw so not sure what zos means.

Seraphayel

Razorback174 wrote: »

The stamina return is so horrendously marginal. You might be able to pull off one more dodge roll than you used to, but that's probably about it.

Every passive similar to Spell Recharge restores around 300-600 [resources]. That's how these racials were developed. What do you want, 3000 Stamina per proc to get an additional dodge roll every 5s? It's meant as a kind of sustain on top of all the other stuff, if it would be Magicka instead it would be the same horrendously marginal amount.

MLGProPlayer

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Orc hp regen passive feels useless too on night blades. Yet here we are. It is utility. Just like altmer stam regen

Orc utlity passive =

- 1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% movement speed increase
- 10% sprint cost reduction

Altmer utility passive =

- 215 stamina regen

MLGProPlayer

idk wrote: »

To suggest the passives is useless as OP has seems to only show very limited playing experience. Yes, it is probably useless to someone who does not so much but I can say with certainty I dodge roll and block on my magicka characters.

Granted, as long as I avoid any content that offers some actual challenge I do not need to dodge roll or block. So I guess the passives is useless to those that avoid such things.

Yes, when Zos changed the passive to this I was left scratching my head. But to say it is useless is clearly false and either a weak attempt to be dramatic or due to the lack of experience as I stated above.

Experienced players dodge/block much less than inexperienced ones. If you know the mechanics of a boss fight, you don't waste stamina on unnecessary dodges. You position yourself so you can walk out of damage.

MLGProPlayer

zaria wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

you mean you don't cc break? block? the ocassional dodge roll out of panic or desperation?

I do all of these things on my magicka dk. stamina is useful to some degree on everyone

The stamina regen is nice in PvP, in PvE its more of an rater weak utility, Bosmer also has weak utility for PvE.
Yes its nice in some fights but here you can use three stat potions or other fixes for that fight.
Remember using stamina food on my low cp healer in vet Direfrost.

Altmer could not get magic regen as it would make them OP who would result in magic or spell power nerfs.
They could gotten an proc version of the Khajiit 3 stat regen, or other survival buffs like +shield strength.

If anything Breton is a bit OP, looking at Redguards and Bosmer on the stamina side.
However we are talking about 300 dps on 60K parses.

Altmer were parsing equal to or below Khajiit and Breton even before the nerf that replaced magicka regen with stamina regen. Their DPS didn't change between the two patches. All that happened was playing them became less enjoyable. The initial 192 magicka regen still required building for sustain.

ListerJMC

joseayalac wrote: »

ListerJMC wrote: »

Okay so... I actually have an Altmer DK tank that I use at end game (it's a former dps I'm attached to and don't want to change).

The magicka regeneration is okay but not super useful given I run balance. Pushing magicka higher to regain stamina was an interesting experiment, but it messes you up for shards and orbs and ultimately isn't worth it (unless maybe if you never run with people who use those skills, but even then there are better sustain race options). I would not advise Altmer for a tank although it's doable.

Maybe this passive is enough to keep you from running Balance on an Altmer tank, it is a dangerous skill since it costs you health and diminishes your healing received.

Obviously there are better race choices for tanking, but Altmer are more viable now for the role. Also they take less damage while channeling Meditate, a skill that tanks are beginning to use more and more.

On the other hand, it also makes Altmer viable for a lot of PVP builds. Just because a passive isn't good for PVE DDs, it doesn't mean it's not good (Altmer are still good DDs though).

Altmer are suitable for more playstyles now, which I think is a very good thing.

So yeah, I will make a discussion about why the new Bosmer passives aren't useful for my Magplar PVE DD or something like that! LOL! xD

That wasn't my point, I know that it's not a great choice for a tank and at the end of the day I still manage. People were talking about how the passive might be awesome in a tanking capacity, and I responded with my experience because I actually play one.

As for the balance skill, I've only started running it on her since Wrathstone because I feel like my magicka regeneration has gotten worse. The channel passive I haven't actually tried out yet in a situation where I'm taking significant damage because I don't pick those moments to channel, so I can't comment on that yet. I'm interested to see if it helps with heavy DOTs, though.

My main issue with the off-stat regeneration as I've said a few times now is that it's too similar to Dunmer. The fact that it's barely noticeable (yes, even in PvP) just adds a bit more frustration to the pile. The channel passive at least has some unique flavour to it, I really think they should have done something different with spell recharge.

argouru

It might have been better if they had the passive give back some of all three resources rather than just the lowest between magicka and stamina.

Rikkadir

Still debating whether to put my Sorcerer racial skill points back into Breton, or change to High Elf.
Xynode (love his builds) has just posted his latest Sorcere build for Wrathstone and he's still using High Elf, with Dark Elf, Khajiit and Breton as good substitutes.
https://xynodegaming.com/easysorc

Wildberryjack

I'm not having any issues with sustain on my Altmer MagSorc so I guess I'm doing something wrong then?

Juhasow

Most of the commeonts here can be summarized into either seeing glass half full or half empty.

MLGProPlayer

Rikkadir wrote: »

Still debating whether to put my Sorcerer racial skill points back into Breton, or change to High Elf.
Xynode (love his builds) has just posted his latest Sorcere build for Wrathstone and he's still using High Elf, with Dark Elf, Khajiit and Breton as good substitutes.
https://xynodegaming.com/easysorc

Altmer can still pull the same DPS as Breton. They're just saddled with 1 of their 3 passives being useless.

MLGProPlayer

Wildberryjack wrote: »

I'm not having any issues with sustain on my Altmer MagSorc so I guess I'm doing something wrong then?

If you're a petsorc, then you have infinite sustain on any race. You could even sustain endlessly on an orc.

For any other build/class, you need to build for sustain (i.e. sustain food/absorb glyph). As long as you build for sustain, you shouldn't have sustain issues.

Nerouyn

ezio45 wrote: »

Other than my stubbornness there is 0 reason why i shouldnt change to darkelf

Sure there is.

If you change to darkelf for their superior racials, that potentially encourages ZO to tweak racial passives again. But without giving out any free changes. Gotta buy some race change tokens now.... Kaching! $$$$

Ratzkifal

I still don't see why they couldn't have made it a niche recovery gain. For example grant 100 mag recovery for X seconds when you apply a status effect.
Or maybe increase the chance to apply elemental status effects if they are really so much against letting Altmer encroach on sustain aka Breton territory.

Eitherway, their explanation with "Alteration magic" is just so badly thought out and imo unprofessional. If it is part of a magic school or just magic itself, then any one adept in magic can do the same and benefit from it. It's not like Alteration is exclusive to Altmer (even though it both starts with Alt-). A magical Breton should be able to pull stamina out of his rear end the same way if this is just some magical trick and nothing inherent to Altmer physiology. Even if it was a long-kept Altmer secret, a mage of any race skilled enough in Alteration should be able to figure that out on his or her own and spill the beans.
Literally every other racial passive is somehow related to or implied to be physiology, including the highly controversial Bosmer detection that is equally unprecedented by lore and in no way legitimate enough to replace their bonus to sneaking.
As an analogy that's easier to understand, nobody swings a weapon like a Redguard, but there is no sword strike that only a Redguard can pull off.

Ozby

yep got rid of my Altmers due to the passive changes there just horrible now.

Nerouyn

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Eitherway, their explanation with "Alteration magic" is just so badly thought out and imo unprofessional. If it is part of a magic school or just magic itself, then any one adept in magic can do the same and benefit from it.

Did they really say that?

Because officially the magic schools don't exist yet.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Proposal:_Schools_of_Magic

That's the reason given for why we're stuck with classes. We were supposed to discover / create those schools with spellcrafting.

Though they've been very inconsistent on this. Eg. when introducing wardens they did that with a lore article and referred to the non-existent schools as "traditional".

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Who_Are_the_Wardens?

While the Bosmer priests reportedly draw stories from their past, present, and future to entrance their audience, Wardens seem to draw upon their natural environment to change and shape reality itself. In layman's terms, something I think my colleague Phrastus may appreciate, the Spinners appear to employ a kind of Illusionary magic, whereas the Wardens' abilities are more akin to what might traditionally be called Alteration or Confuration.

InvictusApollo

Ugh enough with this whining. Not all abilities have to be just for pve. This one racial passive is amazing for pvp.

grannas211

Now that us console plebs have had Wrathstone for a week now, I can safely say for pvp, Spell Recharge is great.

WrathOfInnos

grannas211 wrote: »

Now that us console plebs have had Wrathstone for a week now, I can safely say for pvp, Spell Recharge is great.

I don’t see it competing with Dunmer’s flat stamina bonus. You would have to be continuously fighting someone for over 24s, without ever reaching full stamina, for the Altmer passive to tie the Dunmer one. I think the average TTK these days is much lower than that.

The old Altmer passive (Magicka sustain) was equally useful in PVP, made much more sense for the race, and was not isolated to that one small segment of the game. Instead Altmer had to become a watered-down Dunmer for unknown reasons.

wedgebert

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Ugh enough with this whining. Not all abilities have to be just for pve. This one racial passive is amazing for pvp.

If they want to make a PvP talent, then all races should have a dedicated PvP talent. As it stands, only really Altmer and Bosmer are in the boat of having a talent that is nigh worthless in PvE.

MLGProPlayer

wedgebert wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Ugh enough with this whining. Not all abilities have to be just for pve. This one racial passive is amazing for pvp.

If they want to make a PvP talent, then all races should have a dedicated PvP talent. As it stands, only really Altmer and Bosmer are in the boat of having a talent that is nigh worthless in PvE.

Racial passives are supposed to be foundational skills that are useful in PvP and PvE. The fact that Altmer and Bosmer have PvP-only passives is extremely poor game design.