Seraphayel wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

I hope you aren't including me in this sentiment.

I think Altmer is comfortably seated at the top of the dps parses. Spell recharge, the way ZOS explained it, could feasibly be part of their lore too.

Nope, not you. And I agree with you on your second paragraph.

The Altmer vs. Dunmer discussion... why bother with it now? I've read so many posts from the Altmer guys that Dunmer was (before the changes) the top pick for Magicka DPS.

I mean even when both are very close together now, it's about taste. And that's how it should be imho. If you like Altmer more, take them. If you like Dunmer more, take them. If you are willing to sacrifice damage for sustain, go Breton. Or if you want to be a bit special, go Khajiit. Plenty of choices, all of them being almost identical in DPS.

I guess what I was getting at was that there is no flavor difference between these two races when they are specced for magicka use, other than their appearance.

And if this is enough flavor for the races, then there should not be any racial passives to begin with.

An argument can be made that dunmer have flavor because they have the ability to be specced for either magicka or for stamina. But if this is the case, what do altmer have? They are magicka dunmer, without the ability to be specced for stamina. Why shouldn't they be compensated for being only half of what dunmer can be?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying buff altmer. They are already at the top of the dps charts. Just give them something, anything that is magicka related and marginally useful (doesn't have to be sustain, doesn't have to be a dps increase) and get rid of their hybrid utility.

Damage shield strength, increased range on spells, reduced cast time of abilities, increase movement speed while casting, after breaking free increase spell pen by 1500, anything. Just get rid of the hybrid sustain.

If it were up to me, I would take even more drastic measures by reducing dunmers max mag/stam to 1500 and giving them spell recharge to make them kings of hybrid utility at the cost of max damage. Then, altmer would be given 1000 max stam to compensate for the loss of spell recharge and be granted additional resources on fully charged heavy attacks to increase their competitiveness in healing roles.

But again, I'm living in dream land because if it were up to me, each race would be allocated 3000 max resources and follow the other guidelines I outlined earlier in these comments and also here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459197/racial-rebalance-v4-3-x#latest

@twing1_

I agree, Dunmer should have kept the lower resources, 1500 max. 1850 is imho too much but it's acceptable DPS wise. So nothing groundbreaking in the end and easy to change over the next months because it's just number tuning.

MikaHR wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, changing the races wasn’t a bad idea. Ended up okay even if altmer got screwed.

Problem is whether intended or not people chose altmer for sustain pre-patch. Now it’s Breton. Then they got a useless passive reducing channeled time damage no one likes unless you’re a templar.

Either way - move on. I don’t see the issue. Altmer looked funny anyways so I don’t mind changing. Are there really Altmer lovers who only made Altmers pre-patch? They were annoying in Skyrim, especially the guy from the mage guild quest, so don’t mind not being associated with them anymore.

Altmer did not get screwed, yes they should get an more usable passive like shield strength like some suggested.
Keeping the magic regen would make them OP and required nerfs in other stats so an better survival passive would be nice.
Bosmer loss of stealth was pointless, stealth is like the 2K resources most have.
Khajiit need an small buff to make them more in line with Dunmer,

Keeping the magicka regen would not have made them OP. Being slightly better at something does not = OP.

If there was a good reason to strip high elves of their magicka regen bonuses I can't think of one.

It would be against ZOS own ruleset of either damage or sustain -> not going to happen so no point talking about it. Altmer won't get a Magicka sustain passive.

If that's the case: then Altmer have been in violation of their rules since closed beta. Because they have had passive bonuses to both damage and sustain since the game's release.

In any case: it's a silly rule and let's not pretend that ZoS never decides to break their own rules. I remember when they said they were never going to abandon their subscription model.

It's one of the major points in their write up for the racial changes in 4.3 but why bother with it...

It's not silly. It makes sense to make differentiate the races more, e.g. sustain races and damage races (and utility races). Before the changes why even bother with Bretons, Altmer and Dunmer did everything better because they had additional damage and sustain. Now Bretons fill the niche of a sustain Magicka race and benefit greatly by that. It's one of the stated design goals and they applied this to every race (for Stamina we have Orc on the damage and Redguard on the sustain).

I call it silly because there is nothing wrong with a race being the best at a certain type of magic. Where does this idea that all races have to be balanced even come from? It defeats the entire purpose of racial passives and strengths to begin with: because that is the whole point of them in the first place - to make those races better than others at certain things.

If no one wanted to be a Breton then the answer would be to strengthen them in some other area players could take advantage of. It isn't to strip other races of the individual strengths that made them interesting to begin with. And they could have given Breton an increase to sustain without taking it away from Altmer anyway. So it's just silly to me like I said. You can have two races that have advantages in magical sustain and damage without hurting the game. These are stupid rules the developers are placing on themselves for no logical reason that I can see. In other words: they are annoying their players for no good reason here.

They really just need to stop trying to appeal to the min/max crowd - which makes up a tiny tiny percentage of this game's population. It's going to be the death of this game if they keep on going down that road because it turns off many more players than it impresses.

The idea comes to be able to play the race you want and give players more chocice than a single race. And they did great job as there are multiple race choices now.

Players always had more choices than a single race. That was never a problem to fix in the first place.

All they did was move the pieces around. Those same people are just going to re roll and choose what ever race does what they are looking to do the best. Those who didn't care still don't care - and are just going to play the race they like.

twing1_ wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

@twing1_

I agree, Dunmer should have kept the lower resources, 1500 max. 1850 is imho too much but it's acceptable DPS wise. So nothing groundbreaking in the end and easy to change over the next months because it's just number tuning.

You can't just take away max resources though.

The current balance is pretty good, nerfing a race without giving them anything in return would disrupt that.

Spell recharge makes sense on the hybrid race, dunmer. Give altmer something else, anything else to compensate for the loss. Anything will do as long as it doesn't touch stamina.

You basically said it: they're done with the racials. That's why I don't think anything but numbers will change in the future.

NyassaV wrote: »

let me explain why they are a little stupid and frankly what you currently have is rather nice.

So, we are a little stupid for not being interested in something we never needed and never asked ? Thanks, professor !

Nah seriously, I'm sure that in some form of content it might be useful. But I have been playing a few casters over the past almost-4-years, and I have never felt my stamina lacking. Never. So, a passive that regenerates something you never miss anyway is pointless.

Now, if you do need more than 3 seconds to kill a group of mobs in a public dungeon, maybe you need to dodge alot. I wouldn't know.