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Why are they nerfing dungeons?
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MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Very good. Maybe this will get more players involved. The small minority of players who run more difficult content have a blind spot for the average ESO player. I do not. I'm married to one, and have friends who also fall into the casual category. The average player does not want to be challenged beyond their limits, and they don't want to make this game a life goal. Accessibility matters, and this sort of thing is a step in the right direction. Hard mode isn't being nerfed, and there's no need to be snide about the skill level of players who just want to have fun. Sad, really, that any of that even needs to be said.
Accessibility was always there. It was called normal mode. Vet was supposed to be for those looking for a challenge.
True. ZoS nerfing dungeons is like you getting a participation trophy... Useless, and rewards laziness...
If you want a real trophy, go win some real trophies...in real world.
Someone playing computer games talking about "participation trophies", "uselessness" and "laziness"....Edited by MikaHR on March 5, 2019 12:32PM13 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Finn
Finn,
I cannot tell the number of veteran random pug groups I've tried to guide through some dungeons only to find out they not only were clueless on mechanics but simply did not even meet the absolute minimum dps. But what really strikes me is hearing that same answer over and over again from these players that were clearly in no way ready for veteran:
"I'm sorry, I'm only here for the monster set. I never play dungeons, only pvp but I need this monster set and it only drops in veteran..."
I never thought I would say this but perhaps it's time to make monster sets drop in normal too, in order to avoid this. The old argument of "Let's keep the monster sets locked behind at least some skill left in the game for God's sake..." seems no longer valid.
After all they can get the shoulders by doing normal pledges, why make those people ruin veteran random group experiences by denying them monster heads to drop in the normal version, which obviously suits them 10 times better ?11 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭"Why are they nerfing dungeons?"
DLC dungeons are waste of money. Unles they make them immensly popular....somehow, motifs, gear and all other rewards as "encouragement" failed miserably, no one wants to play them no matter what devs do and how much rewards they shower players with. And now shoving main STORY into them....is a big fail on ZOSs part.
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
I believe those stats are from all players...not only ESO players...at least on XB that is the case...
On Xbox, the achievement per cents are calculated using the number of players that have gotten he achievement and the number of players that have logged into the game on the platform.
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MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Or maybe stop making PvP players grind PvE for best PvP gear?
As i said before, monster sets should ONLY work in dungeons/trials (instanced content) and be like any other 2 piece bonus in anything that is NOT dungeon/trial (same as 3 piece trial sets....which should be extended to 5 pieces bonus as well)Edited by MikaHR on March 5, 2019 1:00PM1 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_Finn
Finn,
I cannot tell the number of veteran random pug groups I've tried to guide through some dungeons only to find out they not only were clueless on mechanics but simply did not even meet the absolute minimum dps. But what really strikes me is hearing that same answer over and over again from these players that were clearly in no way ready for veteran:
"I'm sorry, I'm only here for the monster set. I never play dungeons, only pvp but I need this monster set and it only drops in veteran..."
I never thought I would say this but perhaps it's time to make monster sets drop in normal too, in order to avoid this. The old argument of "Let's keep the monster sets locked behind at least some skill left in the game for God's sake..." seems no longer valid.
After all they can get the shoulders by doing normal pledges, why make those people ruin veteran random group experiences by denying them monster heads to drop in the normal version, which obviously suits them 10 times better ?
at least a decent chance of a drop would get players running them. At the same time the hardmodes should be more beneficial as well. Hardmode should give the shoulders as well because no one runs dlc for keys.Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard4 -
I can understand the point that Zos is coming from, It would be very disenheartening to see a major portion of its player base refuse to complete content they created. It brings the dungeons to a much more manageable level for all players. I will also admit (As a CP Capped player) that I had almost zero interest in most to all of any of the dungeons on veteran included via DLC. Last night I had completed two vet DLC dungeons. vWGT and vBRF were to my experience, doable. I grouped with friends to complete vWGT as I hadn't defeated the final two bosses yet whenever I tried pugging. In vBRF I had pugged for it and did it in about 2-3 hour completion time. The only boss we had died to more often than any other was Caillaiofe. With these changes, I hope to complete more veteran level dungeons.==My Champions==
Beatrixlachance - AD Stamblade - Khajiit
Lucïen Lachance - EP Stamsorc - Imperial
Dar'kriid Tahrovin - AD Magblade - Khajiit
R'iva - EP Magisorc - Dunmer
Sheogorath-Daedric Prince - EP Magisorc - Nord
Miraak-Dovahkiin - EP MagDK - Nord
Charlie Manx - DC Magplar - Breton
––Still in Leveling––Abecean Sailor - AD Magblade - Argonian
Hërmäëüs Mörä - EP Magden - Dunmer4 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can’t wait for this on console. You know I Pug a lot. DLC dungeons come up and you see that blue portal of despair....
For awhile now, I’ve been thinking that hardmode scroll should be at the beginning of the dungeon and not the end. Thank you for clearing up that will never happen.
And after sifting through 6 pages of bull *** found some green writing that wasn’t just “ comments been removed to blah blah blah.
Good Job Finn. And thank you.4 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At the same time the hardmodes should be more beneficial as well. Hardmode should give the shoulders as well because no one runs dlc for keys.
The guaranteed drop of a motif page is a fairly substantial reward, IMHO.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information4 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Zos is a business. Dungeon dlc is currently a big part of the content produced, two new packs each year. And the majority of players don’t even want them. If they weren’t included in ESO+, the situation would be even worse. Games don’t fail from making their content accessible. It’s exactly the opposite. Someone at zos is smart enough to look at the sales and player stats for these dungeons and make some (very small, very blown out of proportion in this thread) changes.
Solo mode for dungeons is the only way to get any meaningful participation, all these more or less cosmetic changes will have almost no effect, nerfin a boss a little here and there....yeah, no one will buy the DLC now same as they didnt before.Edited by MikaHR on March 5, 2019 1:21PM0 -
TQSkull✭✭✭✭"Why are they nerfing dungeons?"
DLC dungeons are waste of money. Unles they make them immensly popular....somehow, motifs, gear and all other rewards as "encouragement" failed miserably, no one wants to play them no matter what devs do and how much rewards they shower players with. And now shoving main STORY into them....is a big fail on ZOSs part.
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
@MikaHR What percentage of the people have achievements such as "Shadows of the Hist Explorer"? That's the one where you get the loyalty reward personality just for porting into the dungeon. I think those are better baselines--that's the number of people who have access to the DLC and have bothered to at least set foot inside to get the free collectible. Kinda curious how the clearance rates for each DLC compares to the access rate of that DLC.
This isn't a PS4 Trophy, so we can't see this percentage. But if i read it correctly only 17% even reached level 50. So it isn't surprising that the completion percentage is that low. But it looks like only ZOS has relevant data to know this..2 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭To placate the whiny little man-babies who post on the forum complaining how even normal DLC content is 'too hard'.
The content was already easy. Pretty much every vWGT PUG I do, the team just nukes the Planar Inhibitor. Time was when people would RQ after the sixth wipe.
0 -
mcagatayg✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Very good. Maybe this will get more players involved. The small minority of players who run more difficult content have a blind spot for the average ESO player. I do not. I'm married to one, and have friends who also fall into the casual category. The average player does not want to be challenged beyond their limits, and they don't want to make this game a life goal. Accessibility matters, and this sort of thing is a step in the right direction. Hard mode isn't being nerfed, and there's no need to be snide about the skill level of players who just want to have fun. Sad, really, that any of that even needs to be said.
Accessibility was always there. It was called normal mode. Vet was supposed to be for those looking for a challenge.
True. ZoS nerfing dungeons is like you getting a participation trophy... Useless, and rewards laziness...
If you want a real trophy, go win some real trophies...in real world.
Someone playing computer games talking about "participation trophies", "uselessness" and "laziness"....
Whats the point of achievements then? Why people play this kind of games? I do it for the achievement, and when that achievement lose value, i feel bad because i tried so hard to earn that achievement.
I wanted to show the "nerfing" example of that in real life by talking about participation trophies. This game already has that, you get free stuff just by porting in anyway...Edited by mcagatayg on March 5, 2019 1:35PM0 -
Numerikuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Why are they nerfing dungeons?"
DLC dungeons are waste of money. Unles they make them immensly popular....somehow, motifs, gear and all other rewards as "encouragement" failed miserably, no one wants to play them no matter what devs do and how much rewards they shower players with. And now shoving main STORY into them....is a big fail on ZOSs part.
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
I knew for a long time that the numbers were gonna be low, but not that low. Y i k e s lol. Makes you wonder how Trials are fairing as well.1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Why are they nerfing dungeons?"
DLC dungeons are waste of money. Unles they make them immensly popular....somehow, motifs, gear and all other rewards as "encouragement" failed miserably, no one wants to play them no matter what devs do and how much rewards they shower players with. And now shoving main STORY into them....is a big fail on ZOSs part.
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
@MikaHR What percentage of the people have achievements such as "Shadows of the Hist Explorer"? That's the one where you get the loyalty reward personality just for porting into the dungeon. I think those are better baselines--that's the number of people who have access to the DLC and have bothered to at least set foot inside to get the free collectible. Kinda curious how the clearance rates for each DLC compares to the access rate of that DLC.
This isn't a PS4 Trophy, so we can't see this percentage. But if i read it correctly only 17% even reached level 50. So it isn't surprising that the completion percentage is that low. But it looks like only ZOS has relevant data to know this..
Ah, okay, thanks for that clarification. I was under the mistaken impression that console players can see the stats of all achievements.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information2 -
crjs1✭✭✭✭✭Excellent news! And glad ZOS are going to
keep evaluating dungeon difficulty and making further adjustments if needed.
This makes content more accessible which can only be a good thing. The gap between normal and vet is far to steep and these changes should start to help.4 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Very good. Maybe this will get more players involved. The small minority of players who run more difficult content have a blind spot for the average ESO player. I do not. I'm married to one, and have friends who also fall into the casual category. The average player does not want to be challenged beyond their limits, and they don't want to make this game a life goal. Accessibility matters, and this sort of thing is a step in the right direction. Hard mode isn't being nerfed, and there's no need to be snide about the skill level of players who just want to have fun. Sad, really, that any of that even needs to be said.
Accessibility was always there. It was called normal mode. Vet was supposed to be for those looking for a challenge.
True. ZoS nerfing dungeons is like you getting a participation trophy... Useless, and rewards laziness...
If you want a real trophy, go win some real trophies...in real world.
Someone playing computer games talking about "participation trophies", "uselessness" and "laziness"....
Whats the point of achievements then? Why people play this kind of games? I do it for the achievement, and when that achievement lose value, i feel bad because i tried so hard to earn that achievement.
I wanted to show the "nerfing" example of that in real life by talking about participation trophies. This game already has that, you get free stuff just by porting in anyway...
To give lazy peope fake feeling of usefulness by giving out meaningless "achievements"?
Calling computer games "hard work" means you never ever did any real hard work, come to me and ill put you to some proper hard work and you will never ever even think of calling compuer game "hard work".
Try running 100m under 10s. Now THAT is proper achievement that requires actual hard work....and no one can take it away from you.Edited by MikaHR on March 5, 2019 2:08PM6 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »I can’t wait for this on console. You know I Pug a lot. DLC dungeons come up and you see that blue portal of despair....
For awhile now, I’ve been thinking that hardmode scroll should be at the beginning of the dungeon and not the end. Thank you for clearing up that will never happen.
And after sifting through 6 pages of bull *** found some green writing that wasn’t just “ comments been removed to blah blah blah.
Good Job Finn. And thank you.
The blue portal of despair...LMAO this made me LOL... Its always nice getting those folks through ..Paw patrol to the rescue!0 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭This is a good change. I like casual PVE and more content possible to complete is nice. Let the hardcore PVE-ers focus on the new stuff and trails.
But we live in world that is build around I had a hard time but did it, now you need to have hard time to or I can't handle the fact you have it easier..... lolXbox EU & NA - PVP Only2 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Everyone should build that house with their own 2 hands....just because that is how tehy used to build it back then!
These modern lazy ENTITLED whiners who pay others to build their houses, they are LAZY AND USELESS!4 -
Malprave✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Honestly saying I don't see how all that will help not-so-experienced people in any way. I mean if you managed to get to vVelidreth, you already have enough skill/dps to complete her mechanics and so on. Nerf to Gladobthar is just an insult. I mean without stone atro and with nerfed shalks it's just easy-peasy even for group with 15k dps. But that group still won't complete final boss.
So changes look like pointless making it easier and more boring for seasoned players but won't helping much to newbies/potatoes.
Exactly man. I said it before in this post- these changes won't increase completion rates significantly. All this does is make it boring for the endgame player.
Everybody is very quick to point at the low completion rates for dlc as justification for these nerfs but why is it ok to kill my enjoyment of the game just because I'm in a minority? It's not ok to nerf my fun, and other people's just because there aren't that many of us.
A lot of people say Zenimax is wasting resources doing these dlc dungeons. How much resources can they take compared to doing entire zones like Summerset? Look at it! Just look at it! And then look at these dungeons, even the best of which rely on a lot of elements ( graphics/mobs) they have already done the work on for the zones. How much effort do they really take? Not that much.
How much effort do they really put in to keep their endgame players playing this game? Sometimes I think it's not much. And this is coming from a player that many would characterize as a "fanboy". I was really very happy with the game. But with these changes, I'm not so sure.
I'm sure my subscription renewal is on the horizon. And then there's the mortgage, the light bill, the car payment, insurance, property tax, four kids....
I don't want to quit the game, no way. It's one of the little things I really enjoy. But, I can't keep subbing to something that's going to get boring. And it is going to get boring if the game keeps going this way. At this point people are thinking go ahead and leave, you're in a tiny minority anyway. Well, personally I believe the game is kind of like an ecosystem. Destroy one part, no matter how small, and the system could collapse. If all the veterans/elitists/endgame players leave, no matter how few in number they may be, it's probably not going to be good for the game.1 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
All this does is make it boring for the endgame player. Everybody is very quick to point at the low completion rates for dlc as justification for these nerfs but why is it ok to kill my enjoyment of the game just because I'm in a minority? It's not ok to nerf my fun, and other people's just because there aren't that many of us.
How much effort do they really put in to keep their endgame players playing this game? I can't keep subbing to something that's going to get boring. And it is going to get boring if the game keeps going this way.
Have you cleared HM in all DLC dungeons before getting bored ? Have you gotten challenger achievement in all DLC ?
You will be fine, trust me.0 -
cheifsoap✭✭✭✭✭lol "people are leaving WoW because its catering to casuals". No. Just no. People are leaving WoW because the game is 15 years old, there are plenty of other great games to play, people burn out, etc. No one size fits all. My reason? Playing WoW was a job, you had to do your dailies every day not to mention; I was growing up. I had to get a real job, I had a family, I had to stop playing something that required my dedication for soooo many hours in any given week. I don't have to do that with ESO, I can play the game with my wife and at times, my son and I get to stop whenever I like.Edited by cheifsoap on March 5, 2019 3:24PM6 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Very good. Maybe this will get more players involved. The small minority of players who run more difficult content have a blind spot for the average ESO player. I do not. I'm married to one, and have friends who also fall into the casual category. The average player does not want to be challenged beyond their limits, and they don't want to make this game a life goal. Accessibility matters, and this sort of thing is a step in the right direction. Hard mode isn't being nerfed, and there's no need to be snide about the skill level of players who just want to have fun. Sad, really, that any of that even needs to be said.
Accessibility was always there. It was called normal mode. Vet was supposed to be for those looking for a challenge.
True. ZoS nerfing dungeons is like you getting a participation trophy... Useless, and rewards laziness...
If you want a real trophy, go win some real trophies...in real world.
Someone playing computer games talking about "participation trophies", "uselessness" and "laziness"....
in-case you missed the last 10 years of reality. ES PC games are making massive amounts of money. stars in the E sports world are making as much money as a professional sports star. Youtube and streamers are making massive stars that are more recognizable than prime time T.V. stars. But i think his comment is more statement of a generation that has been handed everything and expects to be rewarded because they showed up. i am a parent to one he believed if he got a degree and just showed up to an interview he would be given a 6 figure job. A ladder does not climb itself . there is nothing wrong with content taking a month or so of regular play to get wired and complete. the problem comes when you spend 4 plus hours in a dungeon multiple times and make no progression. usually this because your running with different people pugging everytime. MMO's are about community making online friends and accomplishing things together . If that part is not fun spending a 4 or so hours at a time working on a dungeon multiple times then dont play them. their is plenty of other content to do . that is the problem with the millenial generation they want the world to change to their expectations .0 -
Malprave✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
All this does is make it boring for the endgame player. Everybody is very quick to point at the low completion rates for dlc as justification for these nerfs but why is it ok to kill my enjoyment of the game just because I'm in a minority? It's not ok to nerf my fun, and other people's just because there aren't that many of us.
How much effort do they really put in to keep their endgame players playing this game? I can't keep subbing to something that's going to get boring. And it is going to get boring if the game keeps going this way.
Have you cleared HM in all DLC dungeons before getting bored ? Have you gotten challenger achievement in all DLC ?
You will be fine, trust me.
Many, but not all. But you are putting me in a position here that many people in this thread are complaining about i.e. time required to do veteran dlc. Doing the hard mode on dlc can definitely be a time sink. So now I have to play a dumbed down dungeon to the last boss, then I have to flip the switch and turn on hard mode if I want a challenge. So it’s super hard or nothing? C’mon man. As I said I could be accused of being a fanboy, but they are really taking the easy way out here. The hell with the minority of players that enjoyed these dungeons as they were, nerf ‘em.2 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Swen_von_Walhallion wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »To make them possible for PvPers because they complain that they are too hard.
PhAhAHAhAhA
git gud dude,
vet DLC hm dungeons are EZ for true skilled PvPers, we have the reflexes, we have the superior animation canceling, and we don`t need 40k dummy dps to "Think that" we are able to complete some content.
And yeah we dont need healers, just because we keep our selfhealing and shields up 24/7 because this is what GOOD player should do.
problem with skilled PvP palyers they have nearly 0 DPS comapred to skiled PvE players. And get two skilled PvP players as Dd when i play tank is pain even in easy non DLC dung, bc with low DPS its sooo long and soooboring
Yeah PvP players seem to be bringing interesting attitude of late that pve players aren't skilled and all we do is play with test dummy, but I honestly see hardly any team tactics in cydrolli. Hell the sieges which could of use real teamwork but...
Just make monster helms drop on normal (at least if completed solo) or make the Golden vendor better. thats the only reason why most pvp players are even in vet dungeons. No need to nerf anything.
Dungeons are boring and i'll never waste my money buying any of them. Just like I'll never waste my time trying to find people I dont even want to play with just so I can try a Trial. I hate cooperative pve play, and im never changing my gear for a boss.0 -
BennyButton✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Finn
I know that this is something that is released on PSN and XBOX as trophies or achievements (showing the percentage of people who complete certain things), but I feel like it would be nice to see the completion numbers for PC-NA/EU to help us make sense of the changes you are making and no doubt will continue to make.
Since you have indicated that you yourself have seen these numbers and based your decisions on it, I feel like it's not super difficult to display in some capacity.0 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh boy, a few days ago I pugged as a tank on random vet - they couldn't beat Bloodspawn. I was saying in chat how the boss is the original target dummy, used to check a player's dps. In other words, about 15k group dps will beat it.
I left after the roof caved in three times. I still don't want dungeon content to get easier, I want the players to adapt and evolve.Fear is the Mindkiller2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As someone who spent a while failing to get through the Planar Inhibitor, I can understand these changes. I am in favour of anything that makes more people WANT to play the DLC content.
However, these changes highlight a fundamental issue with ZOS's dungeon design. There is no space for learning.
In normal mode, there are no mechanics if you have sufficient DPS - see the DoM's King Narilmor and/or the Symphony of Blades. If you have the dps, none of the mechanics that appear in vet ever take place, so it is impossible to learn them.
For me, understanding the mechanics and learning how to defeat them is what makes a dungeon challenging and fun, whatever your level. You cannot do this on normal as dps trumps the mechanics every time. This has an impact on vet versions as it's only here that players encounter these mechanics for the first time and this reveals the issue ZOS has with their dungeon design.
The fundamental issue ZOS have designed themselves into is that the only way to understand and learn a dungeon's mechanics is to jump straight into vet and there is NO difference between vet and vet HM until the final boss. So the Planar Inhibitor, like Galchobar is identical for everyone. And a short time after release everyone is just supposed to KNOW how they work and how to defeat them. Which makes it pretty unforgiving for players new to the dungeon (however experienced they might be).
The only effective way to deal with this in the short term is to nerf the non-final bosses (and non-HM final bosses), making vet mode easier, thus creating an environment where the mechanics are visible, but not catastrophically fatal. The fact that this is what normal mode SHOULD be is immaterial. The longer term solution will be to either make groups choose between vet and vet HM much earlier in the dungeon, or to give each boss their own, individual HM version.
TL:DR it should be easier to learn the mechanics, but still challenging to do them on HM. That's the way to get more players into the DLC content. Which is what we all want.
Inhibitor is an aberration. They should just remove that stupid boss because it's just the dumb "mechanic" that makes that boss annoying. So I don't think he's a good example of dungeons becoming overly difficult. He's just an example of a stupid mechanic killing people.Edited by Jeremy on March 5, 2019 4:40PM0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »Oh boy, a few days ago I pugged as a tank on random vet - they couldn't beat Bloodspawn. I was saying in chat how the boss is the original target dummy, used to check a player's dps. In other words, about 15k group dps will beat it.
I left after the roof caved in three times. I still don't want dungeon content to get easier, I want the players to adapt and evolve.
That will never happen unless ZOS implements hard checks to unlock so that players have to qualify for content. For instance:
A rework of the random group finder where vet DLC dungeons get their own separate queue so that people can choose to queue for either "Normal (classic + DLC)", "Veteran (classic)" or "Veteran DLC" in the random group finder dungeon. Maybe even add queues for normal trials as an optional feature.
Introduce vMA-style solo trials per core role (healing/tanking/dd) that test abilities in the field under stress and qualify you for that specific role to be able to queue for the "veteran (classic)" and "veteran DLC" queues in group finder. Without the matching qualification those vet queues are locked by default, waiting for you to unlock them. The "Normal" queue would remain free to all without need for qualification. Successfully passing round 3 qualifies you for "veteran (classic)" while passing round 5 qualifies you for "vet dlc".
Each round becomes more difficult to match and represents the hardest portions of the category you whish to qualify for to ensure that you are ready for this level of play.1 -
Delpi✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »@ZOS_Finn
I know that this is something that is released on PSN and XBOX as trophies or achievements (showing the percentage of people who complete certain things), but I feel like it would be nice to see the completion numbers for PC-NA/EU to help us make sense of the changes you are making and no doubt will continue to make.
Since you have indicated that you yourself have seen these numbers and based your decisions on it, I feel like it's not super difficult to display in some capacity.
If the numbers are so low as PS4, what makes you think they want to show them?
"I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee..."0