Joy_Division wrote: »[*] Bosmer: I play one and I'd much rather have what's on the PTS than what's on Live. I understand some people are upset over the change from stealth to Hunter's Eye, but I'd rather have the dodge roll speed and the pen boost as both are very hard to acquire elsewhere whereas stealth bonuses are available on numerous sets..
"Hard to acquire" does not mean un-acquirable. Why are bosmers stuck with a PvP only ability?
And how does the loss of stealth have ANYTHING to do with the roll? There is an "AND" in that passive. We can have both Stealth AND that dumb roll you want so much. Are you claiming there is something in the code that makes it that stealth detect and the roll cannot be separated?
"Well if we are going to have this roll, that means we can't have stealth. I mean the roll just does not work if it doesn't have a have a stealth detect with it." Was this an actual talking point?
The two do not clash with one another! Again we can have the stealth AND that stupid roll!
I don't understand why this is a hard concept. Please explain why the roll has ANYTHING to do with stealth! Is there a mechanic I am not seeing here?
And stealth is a used in PvP AND PvE, stealth detect is only used in PvP. And this is fine because you don't do pve I guess? I guess the only thing you were representing was yourself.
-Signed an actual player who got the CE "Imperial Edition" when the game came out.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think people need to understand that ZOS doesn't really care about class reps' feedback either. If they want to make a certain change, they'll make ot regardless of what anyone thinks.
That is Not True. They do care very much about our feedback. Just because some things aren't as you wish does not mean they don't care about overall feedback.
Argonians... we are looking to a race that is made for beginner tanks who may have sustain issues... the perfect beginner tank race.
Imperials... are the intermediate tank race.
Nords... we will see Nord being used by experienced tanks. People who are already know what they are doing and will not need those passives etc. will simply go for Nord
I'm aware this is just your opinion, and could simply be an issue of wording, but I actually find these statements problematic.
I've been tanking on an Argonian since launch, when Argonians were crap. I'm still tanking on an Argonian, and will continue to do so. My level of tanking experience is independent of that. I have tanked ALL content in the game, including vCR, on an Argonian. The suggestion that Argonians are a beginner choice and that experienced players will choose Nord doesn't really convey a very friendly message, especially coming from a class representative.
Could you even begin to imagine the forum outrage that would result if an actual ZOS member stated that Argonians were for beginners and Nords are for people who know what they are doing?
LiquidPony wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »[*] Bosmer: I play one and I'd much rather have what's on the PTS than what's on Live. I understand some people are upset over the change from stealth to Hunter's Eye, but I'd rather have the dodge roll speed and the pen boost as both are very hard to acquire elsewhere whereas stealth bonuses are available on numerous sets..
"Hard to acquire" does not mean un-acquirable. Why are bosmers stuck with a PvP only ability?
And how does the loss of stealth have ANYTHING to do with the roll? There is an "AND" in that passive. We can have both Stealth AND that dumb roll you want so much. Are you claiming there is something in the code that makes it that stealth detect and the roll cannot be separated?
"Well if we are going to have this roll, that means we can't have stealth. I mean the roll just does not work if it doesn't have a have a stealth detect with it." Was this an actual talking point?
The two do not clash with one another! Again we can have the stealth AND that stupid roll!
I don't understand why this is a hard concept. Please explain why the roll has ANYTHING to do with stealth! Is there a mechanic I am not seeing here?
And stealth is a used in PvP AND PvE, stealth detect is only used in PvP. And this is fine because you don't do pve I guess? I guess the only thing you were representing was yourself.
-Signed an actual player who got the CE "Imperial Edition" when the game came out.
I would guess that cutting down on the obnoxious screeching hysterics would make for more productive conversations.
Just a thought.
Could you even begin to imagine the forum outrage that would result if an actual ZOS member stated that Argonians were for beginners and Nords are for people who know what they are doing?
LiquidPony wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »[*] Bosmer: I play one and I'd much rather have what's on the PTS than what's on Live. I understand some people are upset over the change from stealth to Hunter's Eye, but I'd rather have the dodge roll speed and the pen boost as both are very hard to acquire elsewhere whereas stealth bonuses are available on numerous sets..
"Hard to acquire" does not mean un-acquirable. Why are bosmers stuck with a PvP only ability?
And how does the loss of stealth have ANYTHING to do with the roll? There is an "AND" in that passive. We can have both Stealth AND that dumb roll you want so much. Are you claiming there is something in the code that makes it that stealth detect and the roll cannot be separated?
"Well if we are going to have this roll, that means we can't have stealth. I mean the roll just does not work if it doesn't have a have a stealth detect with it." Was this an actual talking point?
The two do not clash with one another! Again we can have the stealth AND that stupid roll!
I don't understand why this is a hard concept. Please explain why the roll has ANYTHING to do with stealth! Is there a mechanic I am not seeing here?
And stealth is a used in PvP AND PvE, stealth detect is only used in PvP. And this is fine because you don't do pve I guess? I guess the only thing you were representing was yourself.
-Signed an actual player who got the CE "Imperial Edition" when the game came out.
I would guess that cutting down on the obnoxious screeching hysterics would make for more productive conversations.
Just a thought.
There are people in this thread and forum topics that aren’t, as you say, hysterical. No response to them.
The issue could be presented with a tone of groveling and will still be ignored by Zos.
It’s almost like critiquing the tone is a way of avoiding the subject.
Moonsorrow wrote: »How do you feel they are meeting the goals that were set?
Moonsorrow wrote: »And most importantly: Bosmer with old Stealthy passive or with the Dodge Roll passive?
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »[*] Bosmer: I play one and I'd much rather have what's on the PTS than what's on Live. I understand some people are upset over the change from stealth to Hunter's Eye, but I'd rather have the dodge roll speed and the pen boost as both are very hard to acquire elsewhere whereas stealth bonuses are available on numerous sets..
"Hard to acquire" does not mean un-acquirable. Why are bosmers stuck with a PvP only ability?
And how does the loss of stealth have ANYTHING to do with the roll? There is an "AND" in that passive. We can have both Stealth AND that dumb roll you want so much. Are you claiming there is something in the code that makes it that stealth detect and the roll cannot be separated?
"Well if we are going to have this roll, that means we can't have stealth. I mean the roll just does not work if it doesn't have a have a stealth detect with it." Was this an actual talking point?
The two do not clash with one another! Again we can have the stealth AND that stupid roll!
I don't understand why this is a hard concept. Please explain why the roll has ANYTHING to do with stealth! Is there a mechanic I am not seeing here?
And stealth is a used in PvP AND PvE, stealth detect is only used in PvP. And this is fine because you don't do pve I guess? I guess the only thing you were representing was yourself.
-Signed an actual player who got the CE "Imperial Edition" when the game came out.
I was asked for my opinion and I gave it. And now you are lecturing my with CAPS and boldface because you disagree with it.
Along with completely taking what I said out of contest. I did not say anything about ZOS's code about stealth and roll being separated and I stated very clearly that "I would rather have the dodge roll speed and pen" because I was asked for my opinion, hence the "I". I find movement speed very important in all aspects of the game, PvP and PVE, and that speed bonus is something I'll use in any stealth oriented gameplay Vs. guards and bosses with Magelight active, which hard counters stealth. I am allowed to have opinions. Those opinions are mine, not necessarily what the ESO community may or may not share.
If you want to disagree with my assessment, that's fine, but yelling at me is uncalled for and doesn't somehow make you right and me wrong. And you are wrong in accusing me of only representing myself. At our meeting, when we went over racials, everyone was ready to move on from Bosmer until one representative mentioned the community's concern about the loss of the stealth passive, and that rep was me. Nobody else was going to say anything. Even though I would much rather have Hunter's Eye, I still communicated that concern to the reps.
Yes I am responding with caps and bold face because your statements make no sense. And I did it for emphasis.
I quoted you out of context? Seriously? Was there another part where you mentioned bosmers? Did I forget to add the “sarcasm” emote at the end or something?
You said;
“Bosmer: I play one and I'd much rather have what's on the PTS than what's on Live. I understand some people are upset over the change from stealth to Hunter's Eye, but I'd rather have the dodge roll speed and the pen boost as both are very hard to acquire elsewhere whereas stealth bonuses are available on numerous sets.“
That is the entirety of your Bosmer mention I did not cut out one period from it.
And what you said is crystal clear. You like the current passive because of the roll, so your willing to sacrifice stealth. And the TWO ARE NOT connected! The roll has nothing to do with stealth!
You can have the roll and have a bonus to alchemy.
You can have the roll and get double food buffs.
The roll is not dependent on what’s on the other side of “AND” in the passive. So to say “hey, make armor, it’s fine because I like the roll” is pretty infuriating when the two are not mutually exclusive.
You can have the roll and we can have the stealth and then both of us are happy. Sheesh.
And we have a ton posts across four weeks, in this sub forum, general, and the pts ones. We posted in feed back channels and added tags. And the one person who is fine with the loss of stealth is the one who brought it up to devs? And I am supposed to feel better about this?
The devs didn’t already know about the controversy? And with you bringing it up the dev answer of basically “we will fix it later” did not offer a follow up? And in all that time that was the ONLY time this was brought up??? How about they remove stealth when they have a “fix” ready. Was that asked?
What are we supposed to do? Tell me. We post on here in all hours of the night pleading to not lose stealth. We have to put up with people who question weather Bosmer stealth is lore appropriate. Who think stealth is only used in PvP. Or who think we just want the 10% buff. Or the insults that we are just RPers and what we want can be ignored.
The devs said that we were supposed to keep a part of the original passive and we got none of it... And it’s not like we are asking for a dps boost, we just want to retain stealth. It’s why we made bosmers. I have no idea why you made one if stealth is so unimportant to you.
And all of the posts and their abusive responses were meaningless. These forums are just ignored and you are wondering why we are upset. Apparently we would have been better served to drive down to Maryland with a megaphone.
Joy_Division wrote: »The Devs are aware of your feedback. As I wrote in the meeting notes:
"Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before."
Dalsinthus wrote: »Some of what you are asking for can be found here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459718/are-you-happy-with-the-racial-changes-that-most-likely-will-go-live/p4
Starting with post 95 and continuing through the threadAll parses and math I have seen show that these races are all within a margin that can be put down to human error and chance at this point, and it baffles me how big of a deal these tiny differences are to many people. This is the first time I understand that you simply can't do it right. People will complain whatever change is coming, and it is quite difficult to filter out unbiased reasonable feedback.
The gist of Masel's point is that races are parsing close to one another, this is a buff compared to live for races like Bosmer and he thinks that people are losing sight of this in their complaints about things like hunter's eye. He does acknowledge that hunter's eye is not that great but on net, he thinks this is a good set of changes.
Some of the responses express frustration with the focus on parsing and not adequately considering lore and the importance of stealth for the Bosmer race. It's a good read although it doesn't really resolve anything.
Agruing masel opinion somethings aren't just about numbers for people in regards to balance.
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Raven is correct, there is an "and." The roll dodge was to replace the attack bonus out of stealth. The penetration bonus was because the initial dodge bonus had to be scaled back (which was clearly going to happen). We could have easily retained stealth where the useless detection bonus sits now. Speaking of which, what is the point of that? What is the value of that? Where is the use of that? None, none, and none is all I can come up with.
Also, "lots of sets" is actually two. There are two sets that grant a 2m bonus to stealth. We'd need to run both to get what we are losing to this miserably useless stealth detection garbage. So what you are saying, is my Bosmer who I built to replicate my Bosmers in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim -- all of who had bonuses to stealth, cannot have a bonus to stealth, despite all of the lore the surrounds the special role that stealth has for Bosmer culture. WHY.
I do not understand why someone on the dev team has such a massive hate on for Bosmer, I truly don't, but if you want to gut them just do it entirely and remove them from the game.
Seriously. If they don't get stealth, they are not Bosmer, delete them all.