Literally no one is happy with Altmer spell recharge atm, why are they so stubborn?

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

SaintSubwayy · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

See altmer was already from pts day 1 not the best magicka race anymore.
Jeah it was top 3 while breton and khajit were slightly stronger...now with the nerfs to both of those races breton will stay on top
The gap is small, and mostly not noticeable for many ppl
However the sustain nerf to altmer will be noticed by nearly every altmer player.

Galarthor · February 2019

Tasear wrote: »

🤔 PvP > PvE?

It should be, but in reality for balance changes PvP < PvE -> see for example shield nerf, or the unchecked proc meta that ravaged PvP for years, but was not addressed b/c it was fine in PvE.

StrawberryKitsune · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

Unfortunately, if ZOS has decided to do something they will do it regardless of how illogical it may be or how much the community doesn't want it. ZOS is incredibly stubborn, and it pushes players away.

The sustain nerfs from Morrowind.

Shield nerfs from Murkmire.

The stubbornness of ZOS knows no bounds.

They reverted the cast time of shields though. Someone, somewhere, is listening. I think.

Parting gift from Wrobel?

That was reverted in murkmire.

No, I meant the removal of shield cast time as Wrobel's last, selfless act of redemption.

Ah, I miss Wrobel's pretty, infuriating face we all loved to hate and scream at. T_T

But on topic, I'm very interested to hear the reasoning behind why they are digging their heals in with this passive. Along with why the heck they took that stealth bonus away from the stealth race they set up...makes no sense to me other than blind, spiteful stubbornness but hey, what do I know?

Edited to point out I'm not overly fussed either way. My own Altmer sorc build (not bis in the slightest but perfectly fine for trials and DLC dungeon hard modes) is actually getting a bit of a buff so that's cool with me.

luen79rwb17_ESO · February 2019

I think it's fine and Altmer players gotta get used to not having broken racial passive at long last. Now they fill their role in the game and leave room for other classes to shine aswell.

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Racial rebelance was planned as cash grab masked as balance update.
Racial rebelance is just a cash grab masked as balance update.
Racial rebelance will always be a cash grab masked as balance update.

They have their internal statistics. They can precisely calculate which change will bring them the most profit. If their calculations tell that racial rebalance as we have it now brings the most profit, then we are stuck with that. If this is the case, even 99999999 forum whiners won't make them change their mind. Not blaming ZoS for doing that, tho. This is pretty much current standard in videogaming industry.

Ashamray · February 2019

I love new Altmer passives, whine looks hilarious.

Faulgor · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

The 1st PTS patch (4.3.0) was just as balanced, though. Altmer wasn't the "complete best pick" even then, and thus ZOS' reasoning had been called into question immediately when they relased the patch notes. People weren't oblivious to the intent, they were baffled by it.

And other changes have been suggested, numerous times. From the very beginning. That people only wanted magicka recovery back (after it was clear that ZOS wanted to separate damage and sustain passives) is just a lie.

SaintSubwayy · February 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

The 1st PTS patch (4.3.0) was just as balanced, though. Altmer wasn't the "complete best pick" even then, and thus ZOS' reasoning had been called into question immediately when they relased the patch notes. People weren't oblivious to the intent, they were baffled by it.

And other changes have been suggested, numerous times. From the very beginning. That people only wanted magicka recovery back (after it was clear that ZOS wanted to separate damage and sustain passives) is just a lie.

By the logic that either dmg or sustain, then khajit should get nerfed aswell....becaude they have both

Lord_Eomer · February 2019

Masel wrote: »

Steelshiv wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what do you think it should be replaced with? There is enough mag combat in the altmer passives as it is. So what passive do you want to ask for? Keep in mind, if it improves dps, it's op.

I honestly do not care. I just want ZoS to acknowledge the fact that most of the community hates it and give an explaination as to why spell recharge returns stamina. I think the community just wants to be heard.

To answer your question though, I'd like spell recharge to be replaced with (or in addition to spell recharge) a passive that gives flavor to the race. A passive that provides a reason to pick Altmer over Breton. I've heard others suggest an increased chance of applying a magical status effect. This would be interesting because it helps DPS but is countered by Breton resistance.

The community of altmers got a huge buff to healing and damage and a very slight nerf to sustain. I dont see any reason to complain there....

Agreed,

Your points are logical and make sense. You are one of best Knowledgeable and Intelligent Class Representative.

Minno · February 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I love the passive personally. MagDK works better with trap in the rotation anyways, this allows me to sustain trap and still have stam for break free and block, for example last boss of HMvHoF where it is a necessity to block his left foot stomp.

Lots of people crying about the change. Need to build a bridge and get over it already.

use acceleration?
sry but the altmer passive will be a "waste" of stamina in this case, due to providing more stam than you prob could consume with blocking and trap.
Especially since magDK also uses eruption, which also restores 1k stam.

@Masel the point about breton beeing stronger is, that it can run a Infused berserker glyph, and have 452 SD with a 95%+ Uptime, while altmer has to run a Absorb glyph
Now which one boosts your healing more?

Absorb + 258 SD....or 452 SD and 7% cost reduction?

Same goes for DPS Builds.

Why should I run a Altmer, when I can run a Breton, have better sustain and DPS is equal (or maybe slightly worse)
It's the same dilemma we have on live right now with Khajit and Redguard...one does slightly more DMG on paper, but has to sacrifice too much for sustain, so it falls behind the sustain race.
It will be the same now with breton vs Altmer and Dunmer

And with breton havbing the free Resistance, which isnt a big deal, its a nice perk on top of the already very strong breton passives. In situations like vAS execute (where you can get burning statuseffect on you very easy) its pretty nice....not to mention in PVP, where chilled is king atm, and you'll have a stupidly high uptime on this passive, making already tanky builds even more tanky...

If you think another 2k of spell resist that can only have a 10-20% chance toproc off direct DMG is too tanky, you haven't been paying attention to the DMG mitigation mechanics in this game lol.

The overall difference to all other races is already 2k on base
Which will be increased by another 2k, when youre affected by a status effect...which atm in pvp are hitting you left and right
1 frostblockade from a charged staff and youre chilled and rooted instantly, so the 10-20% procchance of off ditect dmg is a mear joke since nearly every magchar is running arround with a froat blockade nowadays
Or you get hit by a force pulse...which deals all 3 elemental dmg forms at once
So you have 3 time chance to get hit by 10-20%

Yeah the mitigation it gives is not much, but the chance of a really high uptime on it sounds pretty neat IMO

If you do the math, you'll findout why I said what I did. Doesn't matter how much it's up or not.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

Man, are you delusional.
We spent the last two weeks making suggestions WITHOUT sustain. And we had to divide our energy to deal with bucketheads like you, explaining why the racial was NOT okay. While you were ramming your fingers in your ears. And now you come out and claim we didn't do anything and it's our fault ZOS decided to crap all over Altmer lore?
Are you high?

Well listen to the rep's comments and you'll find why we drilled hard against you altmers trying to get back the sustain.

BaylorCorvette · February 2019

Masel wrote: »

I've heard from a lot of pvpers who like the stam reg a lot btw.

Yup, this is pretty solid for the much elusive stamina sustain on a mag PvP toon.

FrankonPC · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Racial rebelance was planned as cash grab masked as balance update.
Racial rebelance is just a cash grab masked as balance update.
Racial rebelance will always be a cash grab masked as balance update.

They have their internal statistics. They can precisely calculate which change will bring them the most profit. If their calculations tell that racial rebalance as we have it now brings the most profit, then we are stuck with that. If this is the case, even 99999999 forum whiners won't make them change their mind. Not blaming ZoS for doing that, tho. This is pretty much current standard in videogaming industry.

I mean, if this were true then the top pve dps races would be nord and argonian.

Lord-Otto · February 2019

Minno wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I love the passive personally. MagDK works better with trap in the rotation anyways, this allows me to sustain trap and still have stam for break free and block, for example last boss of HMvHoF where it is a necessity to block his left foot stomp.

Lots of people crying about the change. Need to build a bridge and get over it already.

use acceleration?
sry but the altmer passive will be a "waste" of stamina in this case, due to providing more stam than you prob could consume with blocking and trap.
Especially since magDK also uses eruption, which also restores 1k stam.

@Masel the point about breton beeing stronger is, that it can run a Infused berserker glyph, and have 452 SD with a 95%+ Uptime, while altmer has to run a Absorb glyph
Now which one boosts your healing more?

Absorb + 258 SD....or 452 SD and 7% cost reduction?

Same goes for DPS Builds.

Why should I run a Altmer, when I can run a Breton, have better sustain and DPS is equal (or maybe slightly worse)
It's the same dilemma we have on live right now with Khajit and Redguard...one does slightly more DMG on paper, but has to sacrifice too much for sustain, so it falls behind the sustain race.
It will be the same now with breton vs Altmer and Dunmer

And with breton havbing the free Resistance, which isnt a big deal, its a nice perk on top of the already very strong breton passives. In situations like vAS execute (where you can get burning statuseffect on you very easy) its pretty nice....not to mention in PVP, where chilled is king atm, and you'll have a stupidly high uptime on this passive, making already tanky builds even more tanky...

If you think another 2k of spell resist that can only have a 10-20% chance toproc off direct DMG is too tanky, you haven't been paying attention to the DMG mitigation mechanics in this game lol.

The overall difference to all other races is already 2k on base
Which will be increased by another 2k, when youre affected by a status effect...which atm in pvp are hitting you left and right
1 frostblockade from a charged staff and youre chilled and rooted instantly, so the 10-20% procchance of off ditect dmg is a mear joke since nearly every magchar is running arround with a froat blockade nowadays
Or you get hit by a force pulse...which deals all 3 elemental dmg forms at once
So you have 3 time chance to get hit by 10-20%

Yeah the mitigation it gives is not much, but the chance of a really high uptime on it sounds pretty neat IMO

If you do the math, you'll findout why I said what I did. Doesn't matter how much it's up or not.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

Man, are you delusional.
We spent the last two weeks making suggestions WITHOUT sustain. And we had to divide our energy to deal with bucketheads like you, explaining why the racial was NOT okay. While you were ramming your fingers in your ears. And now you come out and claim we didn't do anything and it's our fault ZOS decided to crap all over Altmer lore?
Are you high?

Well listen to the rep's comments and you'll find why we drilled hard against you altmers trying to get back the sustain.

And? Did you actually help? No, you achieved nothing but *** off decades-old Altmer fans. Completely and utterly useless.

Altyrann · February 2019

If Spell Recharge is intended to be a utility passive and not boost damage/regen I'd be happy to see some sort of bonus health or small self heal there as a more generally useful thing than stamina regen.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

Altyrann wrote: »

If Spell Recharge is intended to be a utility passive and not boost damage/regen I'd be happy to see some sort of bonus health or small self heal there as a more generally useful thing than stamina regen.

utility
—noun, plural u·til·i·ties.

1. the state or quality of being useful; usefulness:

ZOS didn't get the memo it seems.

Minno · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I love the passive personally. MagDK works better with trap in the rotation anyways, this allows me to sustain trap and still have stam for break free and block, for example last boss of HMvHoF where it is a necessity to block his left foot stomp.

Lots of people crying about the change. Need to build a bridge and get over it already.

use acceleration?
sry but the altmer passive will be a "waste" of stamina in this case, due to providing more stam than you prob could consume with blocking and trap.
Especially since magDK also uses eruption, which also restores 1k stam.

@Masel the point about breton beeing stronger is, that it can run a Infused berserker glyph, and have 452 SD with a 95%+ Uptime, while altmer has to run a Absorb glyph
Now which one boosts your healing more?

Absorb + 258 SD....or 452 SD and 7% cost reduction?

Same goes for DPS Builds.

Why should I run a Altmer, when I can run a Breton, have better sustain and DPS is equal (or maybe slightly worse)
It's the same dilemma we have on live right now with Khajit and Redguard...one does slightly more DMG on paper, but has to sacrifice too much for sustain, so it falls behind the sustain race.
It will be the same now with breton vs Altmer and Dunmer

And with breton havbing the free Resistance, which isnt a big deal, its a nice perk on top of the already very strong breton passives. In situations like vAS execute (where you can get burning statuseffect on you very easy) its pretty nice....not to mention in PVP, where chilled is king atm, and you'll have a stupidly high uptime on this passive, making already tanky builds even more tanky...

If you think another 2k of spell resist that can only have a 10-20% chance toproc off direct DMG is too tanky, you haven't been paying attention to the DMG mitigation mechanics in this game lol.

The overall difference to all other races is already 2k on base
Which will be increased by another 2k, when youre affected by a status effect...which atm in pvp are hitting you left and right
1 frostblockade from a charged staff and youre chilled and rooted instantly, so the 10-20% procchance of off ditect dmg is a mear joke since nearly every magchar is running arround with a froat blockade nowadays
Or you get hit by a force pulse...which deals all 3 elemental dmg forms at once
So you have 3 time chance to get hit by 10-20%

Yeah the mitigation it gives is not much, but the chance of a really high uptime on it sounds pretty neat IMO

If you do the math, you'll findout why I said what I did. Doesn't matter how much it's up or not.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

Man, are you delusional.
We spent the last two weeks making suggestions WITHOUT sustain. And we had to divide our energy to deal with bucketheads like you, explaining why the racial was NOT okay. While you were ramming your fingers in your ears. And now you come out and claim we didn't do anything and it's our fault ZOS decided to crap all over Altmer lore?
Are you high?

Well listen to the rep's comments and you'll find why we drilled hard against you altmers trying to get back the sustain.

And? Did you actually help? No, you achieved nothing but *** off decades-old Altmer fans. Completely and utterly useless.

No, but it was fun fighting against the narrative; because Altmer is ready to ship despite subjective QQ.

LiquidPony · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

The amazing thing to me is that I see plenty of people around here, on the Public Test Server forums, who don't actually seem to do any testing.

So many people, including a lot of the most vocal complainers, just latch on to some set of someone else's tests that fit their narrative and stick to that for a month of nonstop fist-shaking on the forums.

I wager that the good people at ZOS would be a lot more likely to listen to complaints that are actually grounded in well-designed tests.

If someone thinks something is unfair or unbalanced, they should design a test that fairly demonstrates that, execute it, and post the results (even if it doesn't prove out their hypothesis).

HuawaSepp · February 2019

If we realistically assume 1 reg = 1 SD

Altmer VS Bretone

2000 magicka = 2000 magicka

258 SD < 360 reg (100 reg + 7% cost reduction on dummy)

5% dmg reduction by channeling + 150 stam reg < 3,5% dmg reduction on all magick dmg in pve and 7% in pvp.

Do yourself a favor and choose dunmer over altmer if you don't like bretone.

Seraphayel · February 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

The 1st PTS patch (4.3.0) was just as balanced, though. Altmer wasn't the "complete best pick" even then, and thus ZOS' reasoning had been called into question immediately when they relased the patch notes. People weren't oblivious to the intent, they were baffled by it.

And other changes have been suggested, numerous times. From the very beginning. That people only wanted magicka recovery back (after it was clear that ZOS wanted to separate damage and sustain passives) is just a lie.

By the logic that either dmg or sustain, then khajit should get nerfed aswell....becaude they have both

Khajiit don't have additional spell or weapon damage.

@Lord-Otto Most other suggestions were in the same regard as Magicka reg. 10% more enchantment damage, 1000 Magicka per 1s while sprinting, 20% stronger shields, higher chance for status effects etc. - all of that would have resulted in either sustain or plus damage which Altmer won't get. Most suggestions were totally unreasonable and I've yet to find one besides the proposed extended shield duration or my 1k absorb that makes sense, isn't overpowered and fits ZOS narrative.

Nogawd · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Racial rebelance was planned as cash grab masked as balance update.
Racial rebelance is just a cash grab masked as balance update.
Racial rebelance will always be a cash grab masked as balance update.

They have their internal statistics. They can precisely calculate which change will bring them the most profit. If their calculations tell that racial rebalance as we have it now brings the most profit, then we are stuck with that. If this is the case, even 99999999 forum whiners won't make them change their mind. Not blaming ZoS for doing that, tho. This is pretty much current standard in videogaming industry.

I bet they do have their statistics, and I bet the majority of ESO players are not the elitists that care about minor % differences.
This is an insecurity issue. If you pick a toon because it's "the best" in an MMO and don't expect change, I don't know what to tell you.

The cash grab claim is just a whine.

templesus · February 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I love the passive personally. MagDK works better with trap in the rotation anyways, this allows me to sustain trap and still have stam for break free and block, for example last boss of HMvHoF where it is a necessity to block his left foot stomp.

Lots of people crying about the change. Need to build a bridge and get over it already.

use acceleration?
sry but the altmer passive will be a "waste" of stamina in this case, due to providing more stam than you prob could consume with blocking and trap.
Especially since magDK also uses eruption, which also restores 1k stam.

@Masel the point about breton beeing stronger is, that it can run a Infused berserker glyph, and have 452 SD with a 95%+ Uptime, while altmer has to run a Absorb glyph
Now which one boosts your healing more?

Absorb + 258 SD....or 452 SD and 7% cost reduction?

Same goes for DPS Builds.

Why should I run a Altmer, when I can run a Breton, have better sustain and DPS is equal (or maybe slightly worse)
It's the same dilemma we have on live right now with Khajit and Redguard...one does slightly more DMG on paper, but has to sacrifice too much for sustain, so it falls behind the sustain race.
It will be the same now with breton vs Altmer and Dunmer

And with breton havbing the free Resistance, which isnt a big deal, its a nice perk on top of the already very strong breton passives. In situations like vAS execute (where you can get burning statuseffect on you very easy) its pretty nice....not to mention in PVP, where chilled is king atm, and you'll have a stupidly high uptime on this passive, making already tanky builds even more tanky...

Trap is > Acceleration on mag DK for sustain reasons. Eruption is used once every 18 seconds...990 stam / 9 = 100 stam regen, which is not enough stam to reliably sustain in certain fights (when you factor in the CC breaking you have to do in HMvHoF lightning phase and execute, no way) when using trap.

Just accept the passive has some marginal use in PvE. Stubbornness gets nobody anywhere.

Minalan · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I love the passive personally. MagDK works better with trap in the rotation anyways, this allows me to sustain trap and still have stam for break free and block, for example last boss of HMvHoF where it is a necessity to block his left foot stomp.

Lots of people crying about the change. Need to build a bridge and get over it already.

use acceleration?
sry but the altmer passive will be a "waste" of stamina in this case, due to providing more stam than you prob could consume with blocking and trap.
Especially since magDK also uses eruption, which also restores 1k stam.

@Masel the point about breton beeing stronger is, that it can run a Infused berserker glyph, and have 452 SD with a 95%+ Uptime, while altmer has to run a Absorb glyph
Now which one boosts your healing more?

Absorb + 258 SD....or 452 SD and 7% cost reduction?

Same goes for DPS Builds.

Why should I run a Altmer, when I can run a Breton, have better sustain and DPS is equal (or maybe slightly worse)
It's the same dilemma we have on live right now with Khajit and Redguard...one does slightly more DMG on paper, but has to sacrifice too much for sustain, so it falls behind the sustain race.
It will be the same now with breton vs Altmer and Dunmer

And with breton havbing the free Resistance, which isnt a big deal, its a nice perk on top of the already very strong breton passives. In situations like vAS execute (where you can get burning statuseffect on you very easy) its pretty nice....not to mention in PVP, where chilled is king atm, and you'll have a stupidly high uptime on this passive, making already tanky builds even more tanky...

If you think another 2k of spell resist that can only have a 10-20% chance toproc off direct DMG is too tanky, you haven't been paying attention to the DMG mitigation mechanics in this game lol.

The overall difference to all other races is already 2k on base
Which will be increased by another 2k, when youre affected by a status effect...which atm in pvp are hitting you left and right
1 frostblockade from a charged staff and youre chilled and rooted instantly, so the 10-20% procchance of off ditect dmg is a mear joke since nearly every magchar is running arround with a froat blockade nowadays
Or you get hit by a force pulse...which deals all 3 elemental dmg forms at once
So you have 3 time chance to get hit by 10-20%

Yeah the mitigation it gives is not much, but the chance of a really high uptime on it sounds pretty neat IMO

If you do the math, you'll findout why I said what I did. Doesn't matter how much it's up or not.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.

It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.

The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.

You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.

The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.

Man, are you delusional.
We spent the last two weeks making suggestions WITHOUT sustain. And we had to divide our energy to deal with bucketheads like you, explaining why the racial was NOT okay. While you were ramming your fingers in your ears. And now you come out and claim we didn't do anything and it's our fault ZOS decided to crap all over Altmer lore?
Are you high?

Well listen to the rep's comments and you'll find why we drilled hard against you altmers trying to get back the sustain.

And? Did you actually help? No, you achieved nothing but *** off decades-old Altmer fans. Completely and utterly useless.

Otto, you know I'm with you on 99 percent of your posts, but on this one you're chewing tinfoil.

Altmer isnt BIS anymore for every part of the game,
but it's going to be great for PVP if not BIS for sorc.

Let me keep my stamina Regen, I've tried it. It's absolutely awesome, especially fighting outnumbered.

SaintSubwayy · February 2019

templesus wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I love the passive personally. MagDK works better with trap in the rotation anyways, this allows me to sustain trap and still have stam for break free and block, for example last boss of HMvHoF where it is a necessity to block his left foot stomp.

Lots of people crying about the change. Need to build a bridge and get over it already.

use acceleration?
sry but the altmer passive will be a "waste" of stamina in this case, due to providing more stam than you prob could consume with blocking and trap.
Especially since magDK also uses eruption, which also restores 1k stam.

@Masel the point about breton beeing stronger is, that it can run a Infused berserker glyph, and have 452 SD with a 95%+ Uptime, while altmer has to run a Absorb glyph
Now which one boosts your healing more?

Absorb + 258 SD....or 452 SD and 7% cost reduction?

Same goes for DPS Builds.

Why should I run a Altmer, when I can run a Breton, have better sustain and DPS is equal (or maybe slightly worse)
It's the same dilemma we have on live right now with Khajit and Redguard...one does slightly more DMG on paper, but has to sacrifice too much for sustain, so it falls behind the sustain race.
It will be the same now with breton vs Altmer and Dunmer

And with breton havbing the free Resistance, which isnt a big deal, its a nice perk on top of the already very strong breton passives. In situations like vAS execute (where you can get burning statuseffect on you very easy) its pretty nice....not to mention in PVP, where chilled is king atm, and you'll have a stupidly high uptime on this passive, making already tanky builds even more tanky...

Trap is > Acceleration on mag DK for sustain reasons. Eruption is used once every 18 seconds...990 stam / 9 = 100 stam regen, which is not enough stam to reliably sustain in certain fights (when you factor in the CC breaking you have to do in HMvHoF lightning phase and execute, no way) when using trap.

Just accept the passive has some marginal use in PvE. Stubbornness gets nobody anywhere.

overall I agree with you, but is it too much to adapt the magDK build for fights which need alot of Blocking or breakfree ??
(not that there are any CP perks for that

)

But for 1 (maybe 2) bossfights its no big deal to swap out Trap for acceleration IMO, cast it whenever the boss mocves to the next position, and once (maybe twice) when the boss is stationary
This tradeoff is in my eyes more than worth it.

100 Reg from Eruption + 10% reg due to vamp (dk is / was the last vamp viable class), Orbs / shards, Liquid lightning, Maybe Boneshield (if you have a cool tank

)
from my expierience all those synergies are enough to keep your stam up for blocking.

Jeah Highelve passive may be nice in those fights, where stamina is needed to block / dodge / Break free....but how many are there...can count like 3-4 fights atm in my head and thats it...pretty few compared to all trial fights there are

For those where they shine -> great
For all others -> well nice to have, but not really needed

DKMaestro · February 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

I mean all other passives have nays and yays but this one is nays. Not a single person says it good or useful or even makes sense. I can imagine the person who came up with this idea is so upset no one liked his idea he got even more stubborn and is keeping it just to spite those who criticized his idea. There is no other explanation for it to stay for live.

They could literally give Altmers anything that doesn't directly affect dps like a healing passive or a defensive passive, but what the heck is that?

I am happy, so you may want to use a different term than "literally Everyone"...

WrathOfInnos · February 2019

To anyone who likes the latest version of this passive, have you tried using a stamina recovery enchant? Or stamina recovery food? Or Amber Plasm? Or Shacklebreaker? Or even Invigorating trait? There are numerous ways to efficiently incorporate stamina sustain into a Magicka build.

For Magicka PVE builds, however, there are zero ways to efficiently change useless stamina regen into Magicka Regen. The old passive works for everyone, the new passive is halfway decent on a small subcategory of builds and useless to the vast majority.

And if someone was truly going to depend on racial passives for stamina on a Magicka build, they would be better off going Dunmer and getting free Fire Resistance along with 1800 Stamina. We really don’t need 2 different hybrid Magicka Elf races, and only one is lore-friendly.

Minno · February 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

To anyone who likes the latest version of this passive, have you tried using a stamina recovery enchant? Or stamina recovery food? Or Amber Plasm? Or Shacklebreaker? Or even Invigorating trait? There are numerous ways to efficiently incorporate stamina sustain into a Magicka build.

For Magicka PVE builds, however, there are zero ways to efficiently change useless stamina regen into Magicka Regen. The old passive works for everyone, the new passive is halfway decent on a small subcategory of builds and useless to the vast majority.

And if someone was truly going to depend on racial passives for stamina on a Magicka build, they would be better off going Dunmer and getting free Fire Resistance along with 1800 Stamina. We really don’t need 2 different hybrid Magicka Elf races, and only one is lore-friendly.

can't you do the same for PVE with mag too?

Rex-Umbra · February 2019

Its great for pvp. Especially as a magicka based tank its hard to get stam back when your blocking

Minalan · February 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

To anyone who likes the latest version of this passive, have you tried using a stamina recovery enchant? Or stamina recovery food? Or Amber Plasm? Or Shacklebreaker? Or even Invigorating trait? There are numerous ways to efficiently incorporate stamina sustain into a Magicka build.

For Magicka PVE builds, however, there are zero ways to efficiently change useless stamina regen into Magicka Regen. The old passive works for everyone, the new passive is halfway decent on a small subcategory of builds and useless to the vast majority.

And if someone was truly going to depend on racial passives for stamina on a Magicka build, they would be better off going Dunmer and getting free Fire Resistance along with 1800 Stamina. We really don’t need 2 different hybrid Magicka Elf races, and only one is lore-friendly.

You could spec into stamina Regen, but the same argument can be made for running one mag recovery glyph. But currently you don't need Stam Regen with this passive.

Personally, I'm going to spec for all damage, and use the stamina to dodge roll and fuel dark exchange.

LiquidPony · February 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

To anyone who likes the latest version of this passive, have you tried using a stamina recovery enchant? Or stamina recovery food? Or Amber Plasm? Or Shacklebreaker? Or even Invigorating trait? There are numerous ways to efficiently incorporate stamina sustain into a Magicka build.

For Magicka PVE builds, however, there are zero ways to efficiently change useless stamina regen into Magicka Regen. The old passive works for everyone, the new passive is halfway decent on a small subcategory of builds and useless to the vast majority.

And if someone was truly going to depend on racial passives for stamina on a Magicka build, they would be better off going Dunmer and getting free Fire Resistance along with 1800 Stamina. We really don’t need 2 different hybrid Magicka Elf races, and only one is lore-friendly.

I don't *like* the new passive. Obviously the old one was better for most players. I just wonder ... with the old Spell Recharge passive, why would anyone ever choose anything other than Altmer for any PvE magicka DPS?

But as for the new passive and how it relates to PvP ... of course. But I already run Amberplasm on my PvP magsorc. Now I can switch to something else. Probably Bright Throat.

So assuming everything else remains the same, I go from:

Amberplasm:
+1096 max magicka
+833 spell critical
+129 spell damage
+250 magicka regen
+250 stamina regen

Bright throat + Spell Recharge:
+4192 max magicka
+279 magicka regen
+200 stamina regen (assuming 90% uptime on Spell Recharge which will probably be lower in practice)

Of course, comparing Live to PTS, I'll also be losing the 9% buff to my base magicka regen.

The funny thing about this passive to me on a sorc is that you basically instantly refund a third of the cost of Dark Conversion when you cast it.