Do you feel PvP is becoming more important than PvE?

Elwendryll · February 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yeah but this thread isn't even about those racials. If it were about stealth detection I'd somehow agree. But it's not.

Considering the identity of the OP, I'm pretty sure it was mainly about the stealth detection and penetration after roll dodge of the bosmers.

Fiktius · February 2019

Tasear wrote: »

With exclusive racials to PvP what should be except to see next?

Too bad developers forgot to mention in patch notes extra ordinary PvP exclusive racial passive, which will remain on every race:

"Unbearable:
When you enter into Cyrodiil, your lag will be increased by 200 %."

And now jokes aside, I must say it's beyond me how such an idea like creating this thread can come into your head at first place.
One hour in Vivec prime time with 9023872923873293732823 performance issues and lag should be a good reminder how PvP is not developers priority and as long as these servers continues being as garbage as they are right now, there's 0 % faith of PvP becoming even slightly more important towards developers.

Also I do understand that there are as many opinions as players and some may like or dislike new racial passives, but that's how it always goes. However creating such thread like this is very unnecessary since you've created only a setting where PvE players are now arguing against PvP players over very minor things which at the end will not matter much:
PvE min-maxers are going to adapt and new meta will be created and many players are going to continue chasing meta anyways, just like after every major patch. Certain aspects will always remain useless in PvE/PvP, nothing new here.

BlueRaven · February 2019

FrankonPC wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Alliance ap increase can be used with PvE quests in Cyrodil.

"Passives that favor gank blades?" Can you be more specific? If you are talking about stealth and bonus damage from stealth those can be used in PvE as well. And they are/were GREAT openers for hard to kill mobs. They did not "favor" PvE or PvP, they were used for both.

Hard to kill mobs? nobody is choosing a wood elf in a trial because they can open up on a savage a bit better.

Asked and answered.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.

and how are the races from a pve perspective? Last I checked the vast majority of them are pretty close(balanced) to one another.

Depends how you look at it. They definitely did a good job as I have said before but issue is giving PvP exclusive passives. This comes after gear and skills that are almost PvP exclusive. The later wasn't actually their fault but racials are on them.

I don’t get your logic there has always been pvp exclusive passives. And just like there’s pvp sets there is pve exclusive sets too. How can you play the game so long and come up with the idea that they’re favoring pvp based on one update which btw is focused on pve.

What racial passives were just for PvP before? How is the stealth detect racial PvE?

Alliance ap increase? Passives that favor gank blades?

Let’s be honest you guys only have an issue because it favors pvp but where is that attitude when canthings only favor pve? That’s right, none of you care clearly since zos push out content 98.9 percent of the time for pve.

Alliance ap increase can be used with PvE quests in Cyrodil.

"Passives that favor gank blades?" Can you be more specific? If you are talking about stealth and bonus damage from stealth those can be used in PvE as well. And they are/were GREAT openers for hard to kill mobs. They did not "favor" PvE or PvP, they were used for both.

''hard to kill mobs.''

Aaaaaand thats kinda where you stop being credible my friend. You can play this game naked and punch your way through any mob. And even if stealth was not useless in PvE content, that still doesn't change the fact that it favours nightblade gankers heavily.

Maybe you are new to the game, but when this game first started, there was no CP and no zone scaling. That percentage damage bonus was really important back then. Some elite mobs were extremely difficult to solo. That is the environment where that passive was introduced.

New players get considerable help from zone scaling now, but they still have no CP to help them. ALSO the replacement, stealth detect, is absolutely worthless in PvE.

So we went from something that was useful in both PvE AND PvP, to something that is useful in PvP and can be safely skipped in PvE. This is NOT an improvement.

EDIT: One last thing, most bosmer players were NOT arguing to keep the 10% buff. They just wanted to keep stealth.

Morgul667 · February 2019

The PVP / PVE war is counter productive

FrankonPC · February 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asked and answered.

So, for the last 2.5 years this has been a pvp only passive....but before that it was useful for everyone? This is just a really weird argument to have because even 2.5+ years ago this only mattered to lower cp/unleveled characters where the zone scaling actually meant something.

I would hope they're not catering this game to those players, but to the existing capped guys in both PVE and PVP.

BlueRaven · February 2019

FrankonPC wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asked and answered.

So, for the last 2.5 years this has been a pvp only passive....but before that it was useful for everyone? This is just a really weird argument to have because even 2.5+ years ago this only mattered to lower cp/unleveled characters where the zone scaling actually meant something.

I would hope they're not catering this game to those players, but to the existing capped guys in both PVE and PVP.

Stealth has never been a PvP only passive.

Deuce · February 2019

Go play a full 30 day campaign and then ask me which ZOS cares more about.

Cyrodiil is a broken afterthought, the only service it gets are crown store updates and “we’re looking into it”... service that rarely comes to fruition.

Performance has shown minimal improvement over 4 years and since the sustain nerfs and dmg buffs from Morrowind, they practically killed 1vX and players are shoehorned into zerging, further decreasing performance (and enjoyment IMO).

Eirella · February 2019

CyrusArya wrote: »

No. It isn't. But about damn time PvP got some attention and priority. Love how the moment PvP gets a little love, petty PvErs lose their minds.

^^^

Ogou · February 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asked and answered.

So, for the last 2.5 years this has been a pvp only passive....but before that it was useful for everyone? This is just a really weird argument to have because even 2.5+ years ago this only mattered to lower cp/unleveled characters where the zone scaling actually meant something.

I would hope they're not catering this game to those players, but to the existing capped guys in both PVE and PVP.

Stealth has never been a PvP only passive.

I think the problem is you're combining two different aspects of the game into one. Questing/Farming and Dungeon/trials are too different to be grouped up like you're doing.
Besides, were the stealth passives really useful in quest content? I really didn't feel a difference between when I did the Thieves Guild quest on a Khajiit and when I did it on a Breton.

Haashhtaag · February 2019

I thought all pve dps was dunmer? 🤷‍♂️

Lord_Eomer · February 2019

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

With exclusive racials to PvP what should be except to see next?

What is this assumption even based on?
_________

We had Stealth racials for almost 5 years and none of you complainers complained back then about PvP exclusive racials. You complain now because your race has been hit and you don't like it. Don't act like you all of a sudden care about PvP exclusive racials now.

Stealth improvement is useful in PvE (for example for thieves guild and dark brotherhood). Stealth detection isn't, because NPCs don't stealth.

This is just lame answer to reply on racial for stealth,

Medium Armor gives enough stealth and different sets are available for same purpose in PVE so kindly stop lame complaints!

FrankonPC · February 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

Stealth has never been a PvP only passive.

We weren't talking about stealth, we were talking about the 10% bonus damage from stealth. There is a difference.

No skill or gear in the game is ever PVE or PVP only. I remember a long time ago when fengrush had VO on a pvp build for the movement speed.

However, if we're really going down that rabbit hole where stealth damage is useful at one point for low level pve'ers and thus a PVE passive... what is this forum post even arguing then? Orc sprint speed and reduced cost could be used to get away from tough to kill enemies in the same areas, altmer stam recovery will come in handy in those longer fights, the breton resistances make you tankier and harder to kill in the same situation, etc.

ezio45 · February 2019

No, I just think zos has lost there mines and don't know wtf there doing in any aspect of combat

Seriously it's just time to bring combat back to pre Morrowind and take it from there

BlueRaven · February 2019

Ogou wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asked and answered.

So, for the last 2.5 years this has been a pvp only passive....but before that it was useful for everyone? This is just a really weird argument to have because even 2.5+ years ago this only mattered to lower cp/unleveled characters where the zone scaling actually meant something.

I would hope they're not catering this game to those players, but to the existing capped guys in both PVE and PVP.

Stealth has never been a PvP only passive.

I think the problem is you're combining two different aspects of the game into one. Questing/Farming and Dungeon/trials are too different to be grouped up like you're doing.
Besides, were the stealth passives really useful in quest content? I really didn't feel a difference between when I did the Thieves Guild quest on a Khajiit and when I did it on a Breton.

Yes I am grouping questing with trials as both are considered pve content. I suppose we can make three separations PvP, PvE, and endgame but I think we are just muddling the waters at that point.

Was your Breton a NB or a vampire? Try doing it on a Breton warden or a nord DK and suddenly that stealth bonus is important.

vamp_emily · February 2019

Do you feel pvp is becoming more important than PvE?

I am going to say "YES".

Last quarter EA and TTWO stock fell 13% and they predict it will be worse in the recent quarter. In 2018 EAs stock fell 45% from its high and TTWO fell something like 29% from its high. EA executives admitted that not including a "battle royale" mode in "Battlefield V" helped make "Fortnite" a runaway success. Also, EA and Take-Two have struggled to develop and release games that successfully compete with "Fortnite" as the game has transformed into something of a cultural phenomenon.

If the information I provided is true, don't you think PvP is becoming more important than PvE?

I really dislike when I hear people say something like "bla bla bla PvE casuals are the customers who keeps zeni servers up and running" because I know anyone ( pve or pvp ) who buys something from zeni helps out.

I really do believe PVP is more important or as important as PvE in this stage of the game. Just imagine what ESO could be like if they fixed PVP. I think we all can agree "PVE" is awesome and Improving PVP could be a game changer for Zeni.

DeadlyRecluse · February 2019

Morgul667 wrote: »

The PVP / PVE war is counter productive

This. We should focus on the real enemy here!

Honestly, I pretty much ONLY pvp. I haven't touched PvE outside of events in almost a year. I'm as biased as you are going to get in terms of wanting more PvP attention...

The stealth detect passive really does only work in PvP. Other "pvp" passives weren't necessarily optimal or useful for endgame PvE, but they had some use outside of PvP, if only for questing/ledgerdemain/casual play.

Is it a problem for me personally that one passive from one race is pretty much limited in usefulness to PvP? Not really, but I can't say I like the precedent. I mentioned this before, but even adding a token secondary effect that made it have some kind of vestigial function in PvE would be a nice gesture.

ZOS_RikardD · February 2019

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Ogou · February 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asked and answered.

So, for the last 2.5 years this has been a pvp only passive....but before that it was useful for everyone? This is just a really weird argument to have because even 2.5+ years ago this only mattered to lower cp/unleveled characters where the zone scaling actually meant something.

I would hope they're not catering this game to those players, but to the existing capped guys in both PVE and PVP.

Stealth has never been a PvP only passive.

I think the problem is you're combining two different aspects of the game into one. Questing/Farming and Dungeon/trials are too different to be grouped up like you're doing.
Besides, were the stealth passives really useful in quest content? I really didn't feel a difference between when I did the Thieves Guild quest on a Khajiit and when I did it on a Breton.

Yes I am grouping questing with trials as both are considered pve content. I suppose we can make three separations PvP, PvE, and endgame but I think we are just muddling the waters at that point.

Was your Breton a NB or a vampire? Try doing it on a Breton warden or a nord DK and suddenly that stealth bonus is important.

My Breton is Warden though. And definitely not a vampire. I've also seen people do those quests with low level characters (without the medium armor passive) and not have an issue. Only place I could see it be useful is for the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood dailies.

FrankonPC · February 2019

vamp_emily wrote: »

Do you feel pvp is becoming more important than PvE?

I am going to say "YES".

Last quarter EA and TTWO stock fell 13% and they predict it will be worse in the recent quarter. In 2018 EAs stock fell 45% from its high and TTWO fell something like 29% from its high. EA executives admitted that not including a "battle royale" mode in "Battlefield V" helped make "Fortnite" a runaway success. Also, EA and Take-Two have struggled to develop and release games that successfully compete with "Fortnite" as the game has transformed into something of a cultural phenomenon.

If the information I provided is true, don't you think PvP is becoming more important than PvE?

I really dislike when I hear people say something like "bla bla bla PvE casuals are the customers who keeps zeni servers up and running" because I know anyone ( pve or pvp ) who buys something from zeni helps out.

I really do believe PVP is more important or as important as PvE in this stage of the game. Just imagine what ESO could be like if they fixed PVP. I think we all can agree "PVE" is awesome and Improving PVP could be a game changer for Zeni.

I agree with a lot of this.

I think their game in general bodes itself well to endgame pvp. A balanced pvp game would generate a lot for the game, whether it's more than PVE content who knows, but it's something that they have not tapped and it never made sense to ignore.

I wouldn't say this specific patch is doing that necessarily, the racial passives were balanced with a "lore based" feel to it, so some of the passives are more applicable than others, and some races(like dark elf) seem to be missing any feel at all.

Elsweyr though with the drop for the weapon and cyrodiil pvp will be a big shift in the pvp direction, but with that being said there's a new trial coming out as well so I am not sure why PVE people are annoyed that pvp is finally getting something they have been getting for years now.

Undefwun · February 2019

@Tasear , mate... most of us know how much you've put into this game in your previous roles... and you make threads which lead to great discussion.

I don't know if you were having a bad day when you made this post, but this was a pretty poor discussion starter and bound to just cause ppl to fire up and go at each other. 'Toxic PvPrs' vs 'Carebear PvErs'...

So many non-pvp players already have this distorted view of "everything that changes is pvp's fault", because a lot of ppl actually have no clue and they just listen to some loud mouth in their guild or discord and just parrot stuff.

Lore wise or whatever ppl may or may not have a point about upcoming changes (IDGAF about lore, so I am not even sure where it's being broken), but pure number wise no one's toon is gonna be obsolete, We will still be able to finish content. The 1% are still gonna nuke everything, the bads will still be bad, and the rest of the masses in the various stages in the middle will barely notice the changes. We may have to adjust builds slightly, but our pixels will be ok.

That DLC drops, no one is gonna go to a dungeon they completed before and suddenly hit like wet noodles and unable to clear.

J18696 · February 2019

I dont think it's being balanced around pvp but even if it was what's wrong with that pvp content has been pushed to the side and ignored for the past few years soon as we get sometime somewhat useful for pvp pvers get alil triggered

Galarthor · February 2019

So for years PvP has been taking a beating b/c ZOS wanted to accomodate PvE players. And now that there are like 2 passives in between all the races that are predominantly useful in PvP you smell a conspiracy?

Ozby · February 2019

Galarthor wrote: »

So for years PvP has been taking a beating b/c ZOS wanted to accomodate PvE players. And now that there are like 2 passives in between all the races that are predominantly useful in PvP you smell a conspiracy?

omg please, every dam nerf is normally due to something over performing in PVP, eg: wardens multiple nerfs, curse eater, Earthgore just for example and PVP gets no love pft.

Undefwun · February 2019

Ozby wrote: »

omg please, every dam nerf is normally due to something over performing in PVP, eg: wardens multiple nerfs, curse eater, Earthgore just for example and PVP gets no love pft.

Why do we need over performing proc sets in PvE either?

Why do people want sets to play the game for them....?

FrankonPC · February 2019

Ozby wrote: »

omg please, every dam nerf is normally due to something over performing in PVP, eg: wardens multiple nerfs, curse eater, Earthgore just for example and PVP gets no love pft.

This is obviously not true.

The changes to khajiit(going from crit % to crit damage) is a direct nerf to their power in PVE, which has once again brought back the gank builds that they were trying to minimize in PVP. In fact, it has made those gank builds worse because now for a khajiit basically every crit is a crit from stealth.

That's just the most recent example, but broad sweeping generalizations are ridiculous.

Juhasow · February 2019

No. Actually threads like this one proves opposite. There is so many PvE stuff that caters PvE players and they got so used to get PvE related things most of the time that when even the smallest PvP related things happends threads like this one happens where PvE playerbase looses their heads and ask is game becoming more PvP then PvE focused. It's fun to think what would happen if really PvP focused major update would happen with general PvP oberhaul. Game is heavily PvE focused and will always be but some PvP related changes simply needs to happen to keep things going.