Do you feel PvP is becoming more important than PvE?

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

With exclusive racials to PvP what should be except to see next?

What is this assumption even based on?
_________

We had Stealth racials for almost 5 years and none of you complainers complained back then about PvP exclusive racials. You complain now because your race has been hit and you don't like it. Don't act like you all of a sudden care about PvP exclusive racials now.

There are literally 2 entire PvE DLCs dedicated to stealth gameplay...

And there are literally 100% of all DLCs and Chapters dedicated towards bashing, blocking and roll dodging where you need Stamina so what's your point?

But sure, we have 2 Stealth DLCs that's why Stealth now matters in PvE. LOL.

Mechanics that require those actions are limited and spaced apart enough that you never run out of stamina.

Please tell me how this doesn't apply to stealth and your two Stealth DLCs then.

Stealth passives objectively make you more effective at stealing/assassinating.

Stamina regen doesn't objectively make you better at dungeons and trials becauae you already have all the stamina you need. Dungeons and trials are explicitly designed to require minimal stamina use so that magicka characters can complete them.

Which is still limited to two DLCs, some parts of Morrowind and PvP.

Something like Stamina is needed and required in the entire game (yes, 100% of it), even for PvE and Magicka chars. Stamina return might be a racial that favours PvP scenarios but it's far from being exclusive to them.

Seraphayel

BlueRaven wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

???

You're basically supporting my point that we had PvP exclusive racials for years and none of the complainers here cared for them - at all. They do seem to care now because they need new arguments why they may not like some new racials.

I don’t think you know what the word “exclusive” means.

Stealth was NEVR used “exclusively” in Cyrodiil (PvP). Stealth detect has zero uses in pve which makes it an “exclusive” PvP racial.

Are you not getting my point?

1. When I say stealth I mean everything dedicated towards stealth or involves that kind of gameplay: so stealth detect counts as stealth in my argumentation

2. I am talking about those PvP exclusive racials like stealth detect to base my argument on that the people who complain here don't care about PvP exclusive racials, they care about their race getting a racial that they don't like. If they'd care about PvP exclusive racials they'd actually complained about the stealth detect racial long before

SirMewser

Jeezye wrote: »

LOL. PvP only constitutes a tiny fraction of this increadibly large game, has not received any overhauls since launch (cyrodiil) and has not received any love for years. At the same time there is hundreds of dungoens, raids, thousands of quests, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, housing. Are you for real? If you talk about class development, it simply doesn't make sense to balance them around PvE because it is way easier to just rebalance NPCs (that won't qq on forums).

Or are you one of those who complain because their high elf may lose its 0,5k dps advantage over breton?

This was a comment that I thought I was going to hate to read, but you sir, have nailed it.

SodanTok

The only thing I feel is that if someone asks question like that they already believe in it. Which makes me very disappointed in you as ex class rep and quite glad of the 'ex'.

Beardimus

Feels like people are over reacting. Sure something's help PvP, as certain changes there make a difference. PvE is already way too easy for 99% of the content, and those doing the 1% will find a way with or without the odd % from racials.

PvP also has more longevity at end game, PvE is rather finite, PvP more dynamic. And things that may irritae in PvE can be broke as heck in PvP and it matter.

Feanor

We can assume PvP gets more important once the performance issues and the glaring bugs (hello, you are in combat!) are dealt with in a timely manner and communication is much better across the board. So no, the question has to be answered with a „no“. Also I don’t really know what this thread wants to achieve other than useless bickering between diehard players of both game areas.

BlueRaven

Seraphayel wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

???

You're basically supporting my point that we had PvP exclusive racials for years and none of the complainers here cared for them - at all. They do seem to care now because they need new arguments why they may not like some new racials.

I don’t think you know what the word “exclusive” means.

Stealth was NEVR used “exclusively” in Cyrodiil (PvP). Stealth detect has zero uses in pve which makes it an “exclusive” PvP racial.

Are you not getting my point?

1. When I say stealth I mean everything dedicated towards stealth or involves that kind of gameplay: so stealth detect counts as stealth in my argumentation

2. I am talking about those PvP exclusive racials like stealth detect to base my argument on that the people who complain here don't care about PvP exclusive racials, they care about their race getting a racial that they don't like. If they'd care about PvP exclusive racials they'd actually complained about the stealth detect racial long before

No I am not understanding your argument.

Stealth detect is the PvP counter to stealth. It’s not the same as stealth in any way. Magelight’s stealth detect is a PvP ability, that’s why it’s in the PvP skill lines. Stealth detect has zero pve uses, stealth does.

Your arguments feel like a dk claiming to use a bow, since they can reflect arrows. No their reflect is a counter to archers, not the same as being an archer.

Stealth detect has NOT been a racial before this update. And Bosmer players have been against this since day one. So you “long before” comment feels shallow at best.

The only remotely remotely PvP only racial that existed was a Breton one (I think) that gave extra rewards in Cyrodiil, but even then you can utilize it by doing the pve quests there.

Edit: I was mistaken about Magelight, sorry.

winterbornb14_ESO

The idiots at E$O have always screwed up the game to try to balance PvP.

Anyone who has seen games die out due to this never ending nerf fest knows better.

Jeezye

@BlueRaven

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

LOL. PvP only constitutes a tiny fraction of this increadibly large game, has not received any overhauls since launch (cyrodiil) and has not received any love for years.

Destroyable bridges, additional keeps, arenas, imperial city, Different campaign types,... You have not played since launch have you.

Jeezye wrote: »

At the same time there is hundreds of dungoens, raids, thousands of quests, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, housing. Are you for real? If you talk about class development, it simply doesn't make sense to balance them around PvE because it is way easier to just rebalance NPCs (that won't qq on forums).

So you admit there is less PvP players but the actual question is;

"Do you feel PvP is becoming more important than PvE?" As in are they forsaking the PvE crowd and are now putting more focus on PvP.

Such as putting PvP only passives in the racials.

I've been more or less actively playing the game since beta and have seen all peeks and lows in its development. Trying to keep this friendly, but "destroyable bridges", "new keeps" and "different campaigns" literally changes nothing in a PvPers daily experience. Arenas have been a welcomed addition to escape the terrible lag on primetime, but the noCP setting makes it an unenjoyable proc and snare fest. IC has been a ghost town as soon as willpower/agility weren't BIS anymore - I'm excited to see what the IC campaign will bring up. There's literally 2 ways you can play pvp, one of them is completly unplayble for those 80% of us having a normal worklife and the otherone is super one sided... talking about ESO shifting to PVP - I'm speechless

CatchMeTrolling

Most of the game revolves around pve, pvp passives been in the game. Pvp gets any change and pve players lose their minds. Literally have to pve just to be viable in pvp, while people throw fits because caltrops and vigor takes an hr or two of pvp to get.

idk

I think we are far from PvP becoming more important, or even on par, with PvE in this game. It does not even compare.

DeadlyRecluse

BlueRaven wrote: »

Magelight’s stealth detect is a PvP ability, that’s why it’s in the PvP skill lines.

While I agree with your main point..magelight is in Mages Guild, not Alliance War skill line.

Tannus15

From a balance perspective PvP has been and will always be moire important, and I say this as a PvE'er

PvP requires balance.
PvE can get by on close enough

If they mess up PvE balance then you end up with the situation sorcs have been in since off balance was nerfed or templars were until last update.
But you still see plenty of sorc dps out side of score push groups. They are "fine". Not great, but whatever, most people aren't good enough at the game for the dps ceiling to be an issue.

PvP is a different matter. If something performs better people feel it and will either switch to that race / build or cry on the forums ... or both.

BlueRaven

Jeezye wrote: »

@BlueRaven

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

LOL. PvP only constitutes a tiny fraction of this increadibly large game, has not received any overhauls since launch (cyrodiil) and has not received any love for years.

Destroyable bridges, additional keeps, arenas, imperial city, Different campaign types,... You have not played since launch have you.

Jeezye wrote: »

At the same time there is hundreds of dungoens, raids, thousands of quests, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, housing. Are you for real? If you talk about class development, it simply doesn't make sense to balance them around PvE because it is way easier to just rebalance NPCs (that won't qq on forums).

So you admit there is less PvP players but the actual question is;

"Do you feel PvP is becoming more important than PvE?" As in are they forsaking the PvE crowd and are now putting more focus on PvP.

Such as putting PvP only passives in the racials.

I've been more or less actively playing the game since beta and have seen all peeks and lows in its development. Trying to keep this friendly, but "destroyable bridges", "new keeps" and "different campaigns" literally changes nothing in a PvPers daily experience. Arenas have been a welcomed addition to escape the terrible lag on primetime, but the noCP setting makes it an unenjoyable proc and snare fest. IC has been a ghost town as soon as willpower/agility weren't BIS anymore - I'm excited to see what the IC campaign will bring up. There's literally 2 ways you can play pvp, one of them is completly unplayble for those 80% of us having a normal worklife and the otherone is super one sided... talking about ESO shifting to PVP - I'm speechless

Again.

Jeezye wrote: »

LOL. PvP only constitutes a tiny fraction of this increadibly large game, has not received any overhauls since launch (cyrodiil) and has not received any love for years.

There has been updates. Just because they are apparently not aimed at YOU it does not mean they don't exist. I have been playing this game with an active subscription since beta and the battle grounds have gone profound changes since that time. Just because you claim "a PvPers daily experience" has not changed, that does not make it true. They have also added arenas and are continually adding more of them. I should also add they plan on adding "super weapons" to cyrodil in Elsweyr (I believe).

And if you expect them to add a cyrodil 2.0 in addition to the current one, all you are doing is making an already small subset of players even more divided.

The IC "campaign" is not going to be any different than the current ones, all that is changing is that the player will go directly to IC rather than going through Cyrodil.

The talk of "shifting" to PvP is in the way racials are being handled, there is now clearly racials that suggest that their role is aimed towards PvP as their PvE uses are extremely limited to the point of practical non-existence. And some like "Stealth Detect" which is 100% PvP as there is zero use for it in PvE.

BlueRaven

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Magelight’s stealth detect is a PvP ability, that’s why it’s in the PvP skill lines.

While I agree with your main point..magelight is in Mages Guild, not Alliance War skill line.

My mistake, sorry.

FrankonPC

Jeezye wrote: »

LOL. PvP only constitutes a tiny fraction of this increadibly large game, has not received any overhauls since launch (cyrodiil) and has not received any love for years. At the same time there is hundreds of dungoens, raids, thousands of quests, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, housing. Are you for real? If you talk about class development, it simply doesn't make sense to balance them around PvE because it is way easier to just rebalance NPCs (that won't qq on forums).

Or are you one of those who complain because their high elf may lose its 0,5k dps advantage over breton?

uh, excuse me...it's ,575k dps.

ATomiX96

fear? I wish they would put more ressources towards pvp rather than pve.

ZarkingFrued

Lol

Tasear

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

With exclusive racials to PvP what should be except to see next?

What is this assumption even based on?
_________

We had Stealth racials for almost 5 years and none of you complainers complained back then about PvP exclusive racials. You complain now because your race has been hit and you don't like it. Don't act like you all of a sudden care about PvP exclusive racials now.

You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.

FrankonPC

PvP has gone mostly untouched for over a year now. Queues for battlegrounds are awful and the games are dominated by proc sets and pre mades. They have added new maps and new game types, but people don't like one hour queues so they don't play(which has been the case for a while).

Cyrodiil got a cosmetic change to destroy milegate and bridges, but it doesn't functionally change "how" cyrodiil works. Elsweyr will be the first time that is the case.

Imperial City last got an update when they put flags in each district...so, 2 years ago? It's mostly untouched now, except for telvar farmers and double telvar events.

PVE has seen every dlc and big release give them new dungeons, four man content and trials, and that's fine...but content has leaned towards PVE for a long time, so much so that apparently a few racial passives are going to set a group of people off.

Now, none of this is to say that PVE'ers don't feel the same disconnect, laggy trash issues. Multiple trials have been broken to unplayable. Hell, Maw was like that for a long time. The thing is that there have always been game developers that have attempted to balance PVE. Sorcs, magplars, stam dks, and nightblades have all had their chance to shine over the years.

The difference is that when something is broken and overpowered in PVE, people welcome it because it makes their character stronger. When something is broken and overpowered in PVP it makes the game boring, stale and not fun. Some attention to PVP needed to be addressed and it looks like "PvP racial passives" is what exists. I don't think that was necessarily their design, they wanted to make the races lore friendly and it just kind of happened for a few of the races. A few others like imperial, nord etc have passives that work in all content.

Tasear

FrankonPC wrote: »

PvP has gone mostly untouched for over a year now. Queues for battlegrounds are awful and the games are dominated by proc sets and pre mades. They have added new maps and new game types, but people don't like one hour queues so they don't play(which has been the case for a while).

Cyrodiil got a cosmetic change to destroy milegate and bridges, but it doesn't functionally change "how" cyrodiil works. Elsweyr will be the first time that is the case.

Imperial City last got an update when they put flags in each district...so, 2 years ago? It's mostly untouched now, except for telvar farmers and double telvar events.

PVE has seen every dlc and big release give them new dungeons, four man content and trials, and that's fine...but content has leaned towards PVE for a long time, so much so that apparently a few racial passives are going to set a group of people off.

Now, none of this is to say that PVE'ers don't feel the same disconnect, laggy trash issues. Multiple trials have been broken to unplayable. Hell, Maw was like that for a long time. The thing is that there have always been game developers that have attempted to balance PVE. Sorcs, magplars, stam dks, and nightblades have all had their chance to shine over the years.

The difference is that when something is broken and overpowered in PVE, people welcome it because it makes their character stronger. When something is broken and overpowered in PVP it makes the game boring, stale and not fun. Some attention to PVP needed to be addressed and it looks like "PvP racial passives" is what exists. I don't think that was necessarily their design, they wanted to make the races lore friendly and it just kind of happened for a few of the races. A few others like imperial, nord etc have passives that work in all content.

It's the balance between the two. I mean if you want to debate then who are most of sets designed for in game? Even the pve arena sets went mostly in PvP direction.

FrankonPC

Tasear wrote: »

You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.

and how are the races from a pve perspective? Last I checked the vast majority of them are pretty close(balanced) to one another.

Tasear

FrankonPC wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.

and how are the races from a pve perspective? Last I checked the vast majority of them are pretty close(balanced) to one another.

Depends how you look at it. They definitely did a good job as I have said before but issue is giving PvP exclusive passives. This comes after gear and skills that are almost PvP exclusive. The later wasn't actually their fault but racials are on them.

FrankonPC

Tasear wrote: »

It's the balance between the two. I mean if you want to debate then who are most of sets designed for in game? Even the pve arena sets went mostly in PvP direction.

Only a few sets are ever used for pve at any point in time anyways. Think about what the magicka and stamina metas are now and what they were before siroria and relequen came out. Everybody was running the same stuff more or less.

Your argument works the other way too, PvP'ers HAVE to run PvE to get gear sets for their builds. Stam pve has to run cyrodiil for a couple of hours for vigor, but that's about it. Everything else(spell strat etc) they can buy in the vendors without setting a foot in there.

It should be that way, if you don't want to PvP, you shouldn't have to and vice versa.

Anhedonie

No, it's the opposite.
The thing is devs gave up on pvp long ago, considering it barely got any attention in terms of content before the Battlegrounds and not to mention performance issues, that have became the norm.
On the other hand, ZOS always balanced things around pvp first and pve was an afterthought. I guess that's because they don't want people to abandon pvp completely, but it's cost ineffective to give it enough attention, since pvp folk don't bring the money to the developers.

There are two things that might happen further down the line.
1) They will keep balancing the game around pvp and simplify pve even further, so you can do vet hard modes with light attacks using frost staff.
2) They will start balancing pve and pvp separately (99.9% won't happen).

CatchMeTrolling

Tasear wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.

and how are the races from a pve perspective? Last I checked the vast majority of them are pretty close(balanced) to one another.

Depends how you look at it. They definitely did a good job as I have said before but issue is giving PvP exclusive passives. This comes after gear and skills that are almost PvP exclusive. The later wasn't actually their fault but racials are on them.

I don’t get your logic there has always been pvp exclusive passives. And just like there’s pvp sets there is pve exclusive sets too. How can you play the game so long and come up with the idea that they’re favoring pvp based on one update which btw is focused on pve.

Tasear

FrankonPC wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

It's the balance between the two. I mean if you want to debate then who are most of sets designed for in game? Even the pve arena sets went mostly in PvP direction.

Only a few sets are ever used for pve at any point in time anyways. Think about what the magicka and stamina metas are now and what they were before siroria and relequen came out. Everybody was running the same stuff more or less.

Your argument works the other way too, PvP'ers HAVE to run PvE to get gear sets for their builds. Stam pve has to run cyrodiil for a couple of hours for vigor, but that's about it. Everything else(spell strat etc) they can buy in the vendors without setting a foot in there.

It should be that way, if you don't want to PvP, you shouldn't have to and vice versa.

Part of that issue happened with proc set changes in pve. Now we just build for raw stats which makes many sets useless. So yeah balance shifted in favor of PvP.

We have issues with many skills even ultimates being only useful in PvP, ex negate.

Half the players are disgusted with PvP atlmer change. Bosmers are a mixed bag of shealth and penetration hatred.

Also for record really doesn't effect me in my gameplay. I just don't like the lack of harmony or consientency in things happening and that have happened.

Tasear

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.

and how are the races from a pve perspective? Last I checked the vast majority of them are pretty close(balanced) to one another.

Depends how you look at it. They definitely did a good job as I have said before but issue is giving PvP exclusive passives. This comes after gear and skills that are almost PvP exclusive. The later wasn't actually their fault but racials are on them.

I don’t get your logic there has always been pvp exclusive passives. And just like there’s pvp sets there is pve exclusive sets too. How can you play the game so long and come up with the idea that they’re favoring pvp based on one update which btw is focused on pve.

Just because it happened before doesn't mean it should of again.

BlueRaven

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.

and how are the races from a pve perspective? Last I checked the vast majority of them are pretty close(balanced) to one another.

Depends how you look at it. They definitely did a good job as I have said before but issue is giving PvP exclusive passives. This comes after gear and skills that are almost PvP exclusive. The later wasn't actually their fault but racials are on them.

I don’t get your logic there has always been pvp exclusive passives. And just like there’s pvp sets there is pve exclusive sets too. How can you play the game so long and come up with the idea that they’re favoring pvp based on one update which btw is focused on pve.

What racial passives were just for PvP before? How is the stealth detect racial PvE?

Morgul667

If you think PVP is the new focusi have to go with a big LOL