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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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Do you feel PvP is becoming more important than PvE?
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DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
???
You're basically supporting my point that we had PvP exclusive racials for years and none of the complainers here cared for them - at all. They do seem to care now because they need new arguments why they may not like some new racials.
I don’t think you know what the word “exclusive” means.
Stealth was NEVR used “exclusively” in Cyrodiil (PvP). Stealth detect has zero uses in pve which makes it an “exclusive” PvP racial.
The problem here is that people are lumping in questing, which can have stealth, with end-game PvE. How much sneaking are people doing in endgame PvE?
That being said, I find it a bit over the top to be upset because some races have passive related to stealth. That completely makes sense for those races. If we want to find things to complain about, there will always be something. The stealth is only an issue if a character of that race is grossly underpowered doing endgame PvE because their passives are underwhelming to balance against the useless stealth passive. The discussion needs to start with power level, not stealth complaints.Edited by DaveMoeDee on February 19, 2019 2:36AM1 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »No? 95% of the attention goes to PvE in this game. It should be 50-50 and before people say "oh but it's a game revolving around PvE!!!111", no this game was heavily advertised for it's PvP before and at launch by ZOS and the majority of Youtubers. It was pretty much the selling point of the game at launch.
No, it should not be 50-50. Not even close.
And PvP was was not THE selling point at launch. THE selling point was the IP. PvP was one of the things they marketed. What kills me is when people cite a Bethesda video where they mention PvP, raids, dungeons as endgame content and somehow conclude "see, PvP was THE endgame." No, it was one of the activities for endgame. But people remember what they want to remember.
Still, the rebalancing wasn't only PvP focused. It was also focused on people who complained that they felt forced into being magicka based or stamina based if they picked their race of choice and that made them unhappy. That includes a lot of PvE players. And, in the end, rebalancing is always going to be more based around PvP because that is where you find people who complain the most about imbalances.
Sure lots of the hype came from the IP, but in terms of content what were people excited for most pre launch? PvP. Pretty much every youtube reviewer's main praise was for the PvP. Think it's "what they want to remember"? Just go back to the launch date and look at any review of the game. Other endgame content, where? The first trial came out when Craglorn released so the only end game at launch WAS the PvP. People that just keep parroting that this game was never built with PvP in mind are just flat out wrong.
I really don't understand why people are so angry over the race changes, so many of the races were useless until these changes. From a PvP standpoint almost all of them look good and fit into some kind of niche / playstyle now. From the looks of things in PvE, DPS between the races seems to be closer than what it is on live (from some of the threads I've looked at). As for the uniqueness of the races? Many of the races now feel much more unique; wood elf with roll dodge, nord with ulti gen and redguard with weapon reduction. Sure some races might be stronger than others, but maybe that's an inherent result of making the races different and also caused by the current meta. Could some things be improved? Sure. But this is the first patch in a long time where ZOS have actually done a good job and are moving the game in a better direction.Edited by Rikumaru on February 19, 2019 4:13AMOverload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.3 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭How is war horn a pvp skill and yet it’s used mostly for pve trails?🤔🤔🤔🤔NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar4 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sneakymitchell wrote: »How is war horn a pvp skill and yet it’s used mostly for pve trails?🤔🤔🤔🤔
How is negate a PvE skill and yet it's used mostly for PvP raiding ... ?4 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »sneakymitchell wrote: »How is war horn a pvp skill and yet it’s used mostly for pve trails?🤔🤔🤔🤔
How is negate a PvE skill and yet it's used mostly for PvP raiding ... ?
Cause it’s a “class skill” which can be used for both pve and pvp. But warhorn is a pvp skill in which you can’t find major force out there yet. Yes resto ulti has major force.
People talking about pve skills like unduanted, mages guild, and fighters guild (which can only rank up in pve environment) being used for pvp.
While the most noticeable one pvp skill used for pve is warhorn
Also with it but are still used and some in situations vigor, purge (but it’s used sometimes on certain pve mechanics.), and guard (guard will give out minor force to magic players but the pjisic order change that)
NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
JPcrazysquirrel3✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Yes. The new combat design lead is the former head of PvP combat design. And it shows, because many of the changes in the recent patch were made exclusively with PvP in mind. I'm very disappointed in the direction this game is heading in.
Elder Scrolls Online: Electric Boogaloo Battle Royale?"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
"It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
"If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
"Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
"If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- MeClass reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bio:
I am in a Kevduit videoPS4 (main platform)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
Playing since console release in 2015
17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.
I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Yes. The new combat design lead is the former head of PvP combat design. And it shows, because many of the changes in the recent patch were made exclusively with PvP in mind. I'm very disappointed in the direction this game is heading in.
Lol, yeah god forbid should PvP be given even an adequate amount of attention after years of literal neglect. Damn those PvPers and their pesky need for balance.10 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭LOL. PvP only constitutes a tiny fraction of this increadibly large game, has not received any overhauls since launch (cyrodiil) and has not received any love for years. At the same time there is hundreds of dungoens, raids, thousands of quests, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, housing. Are you for real? If you talk about class development, it simply doesn't make sense to balance them around PvE because it is way easier to just rebalance NPCs (that won't qq on forums).
Or are you one of those who complain because their high elf may lose its 0,5k dps advantage over breton?
If I could smash the like button a billion times I would.
The selfishness and sheer dislike ability of some of the PvErs in the MMO scene never stops surprising me.
This game was originally with advertised the three faction wars and Cyrodiil in mind, PvPers used to outnumber the PvErs. But because the unresolved Cyrodiil problem the pop took a nosedive.
I hope they continue to balance the game character to character and mobs around them from now on.
If they fix Cyrodiil and give it massive love, they won't need any more trials.3 -
Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Stealth is not a PvP only racial.
It's most useful in PvP though...stamina return for a Magicka based race isn't only a PvP racial as well...Crown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Stealth is not a PvP only racial.
It's most useful in PvP though...stamina return for a Magicka based race isn't only a PvP racial as well...
Stealth is used equally in PvE and PvP. If you claim it’s more useful in PvP you will have to give examples.
0 -
Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Stealth is not a PvP only racial.
It's most useful in PvP though...stamina return for a Magicka based race isn't only a PvP racial as well...
Stealth is used equally in PvE and PvP. If you claim it’s more useful in PvP you will have to give examples.
Awesome ! Equally between PvE and PvP. Stamina return on an Altmer is also equally useful in PvE and PvP
Crown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Stealth is not a PvP only racial.
It's most useful in PvP though...stamina return for a Magicka based race isn't only a PvP racial as well...
Stealth is used equally in PvE and PvP. If you claim it’s more useful in PvP you will have to give examples.
Awesome ! Equally between PvE and PvP. Stamina return on an Altmer is also equally useful in PvE and PvP
I did not say anything about stamina return.
Still waiting on those “most useful in PvP” examples though.
Edit: but if you want me to talk about it let’s talk about it. I don’t have much experience with High Elves personally.
On the forums I have seen the passive described as a PvP passive. I have seen others describe it as so useless it’s NEITHER a PvP nor a PvE ability. But I have not seen anyone describe it as a PvE ability.
My personal opinion is that it’s weird and probably unuseful for any build other then a hybrid one. And even then it’s use is limited. Can it be used in pve? Who knows. Maybe?Edited by BlueRaven on February 19, 2019 6:56AM0 -
SirLeeMinion✭✭✭✭✭To answer the OP: No, because if they cared about PvP they'd get lag under control. Just looking at the population of the PvP servers makes it clear that demographic is not being served.
Frankly, I think the game design is drifting without a rudder. It appears to be a collection of changes that "seemed like a good idea at the time." They must have marketing statistics that motivate them to alienate so many Bosmer players and create DLC vet dungeons that are beyond the reach of most players... er... they do, right?
Anyhow, I do hope the dragons and necromancers expansion isn't just a half baked attempt to capitalize on the appeal of those two themes, but I'm sure not going to pre-buy it to find out.0 -
Itzmichi✭✭✭✭✭So much hatred in this thread. For me personally I don't care if they give pvp all the love it's all right I can hand in my PvE content anyways if it take 5 minutes more or less I couldn't care less.
So here, have a few chill pills guys and gals 💊Here, have a chill pill 💊!0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »sneakymitchell wrote: »How is war horn a pvp skill and yet it’s used mostly for pve trails?🤔🤔🤔🤔
How is negate a PvE skill and yet it's used mostly for PvP raiding ... ?
In the past it had its uses, Sanctum Ophidia before the manticora fight or Hel Ra comes to mind. But players have outgrown the need for an AoE stun due to power creep.
Also, the thread quickly has went the way I expected. It serves no other purpose than another rift in the community.
Edited by Feanor on February 19, 2019 7:33AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Firstly, I love that you think PvP is the new favourite child. It made my day.
Secondly, which one of the racial passives are only for PvP. The aspects you might argue are, are racials with two parts are they not? So they are useful in pve too.2 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »sneakymitchell wrote: »How is war horn a pvp skill and yet it’s used mostly for pve trails?🤔🤔🤔🤔
How is negate a PvE skill and yet it's used mostly for PvP raiding ... ?
In the past it had its uses, Sanctum Ophidia before the manticora fight or Hel Ra comes to mind. But players have outgrown the need for an AoE stun due to power creep.
Also, the thread quickly has went the way I expected. It serves no other purpose than another rift in the community.
Pretty much should start discussion on new things not rebalancing things over and over. When zenimax does it their way forums like this will say “oh they are catering to the pvp players.” Or “oh the pvp players ruin my build for their need.”
But in the end you always need to check after all these years in what players main in classes or/races.
When a new skill/class appears in an update it takes a while to get it right even if it’s in the right spot of balance. With updates with constant needs it will be harder to do especially on console to give Sony and Xbox a up to date. That’s why console will never get pts. If console has pts then it’s going give more feedback on those updates but it still takes a while since it takes a month or two to fix bugs.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.
This is just not true though (at least it's very funny to bring this up after the "racial" changes and very few but very vocal people - Altmer players - have issues now with a racial they rate as PvP when in fact it's not).PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Stealth is not a PvP only racial.
It's most useful in PvP though...stamina return for a Magicka based race isn't only a PvP racial as well...
Stealth is used equally in PvE and PvP. If you claim it’s more useful in PvP you will have to give examples.
So what racials is this thread about then? I can tell you, it's mostly about Altmers' Spell Recharge which gives you Stamina. And now you want to tell me that Stealth is used more in PvE environments than Stamina (run, bash, block) is? No? You see how pointless this thread is?
And no, @Masel l has no reason to apologise. This thread is just another kind of hyperventilating because [fishy reasons].Edited by Seraphayel on February 19, 2019 10:40AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Controversial thread,
I believe ZOS is in right direction and nerf hits harder (even i was against shield nerfs and racial balances) but this patch and last patch shows ZOS on right path.
PVE has never been a problem and can use some nerf, even hardest challenges are now piece of cake.Edited by Lord_Eomer on February 19, 2019 10:42AM0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »You make that assumption but I complain now because I see a trend here and circumstances are different. We were promised balance and balance shifted more towards PvP. As such I rather raise awareness that while this will go live it wasn't balanced. I just hope that this doesn't happen again.
This is just not true though (at least it's very funny to bring this up after the "racial" changes and very few but very vocal people - Altmer players - have issues now with a racial they rate as PvP when in fact it's not).
You can believe what you like.0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »With exclusive racials to PvP what should be except to see next?
What is this assumption even based on?
_________
We had Stealth racials for almost 5 years and none of you complainers complained back then about PvP exclusive racials. You complain now because your race has been hit and you don't like it. Don't act like you all of a sudden care about PvP exclusive racials now.
Stealth improvement is useful in PvE (for example for thieves guild and dark brotherhood). Stealth detection isn't, because NPCs don't stealth.1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »With exclusive racials to PvP what should be except to see next?
What is this assumption even based on?
_________
We had Stealth racials for almost 5 years and none of you complainers complained back then about PvP exclusive racials. You complain now because your race has been hit and you don't like it. Don't act like you all of a sudden care about PvP exclusive racials now.
Stealth improvement is useful in PvE (for example for thieves guild and dark brotherhood). Stealth detection isn't, because NPCs don't stealth.
Yeah but this thread isn't even about those racials. If it were about stealth detection I'd somehow agree. But it's not.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
valeriiya✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Drama queen creating drama, shocker.
To everyone else in the thread: PVE and PvP need to be balanced separately and that's what we should argue for, not with each other about what is more important because Crown Store holds that spot ultimately.7 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭
Alliance ap increase can be used with PvE quests in Cyrodil.
"Passives that favor gank blades?" Can you be more specific? If you are talking about stealth and bonus damage from stealth those can be used in PvE as well. And they are/were GREAT openers for hard to kill mobs. They did not "favor" PvE or PvP, they were used for both.
Hard to kill mobs? nobody is choosing a wood elf in a trial because they can open up on a savage a bit better.0
