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But at the end of the day, are the races fairly balanced? (PVE)
Azyle1
✭✭✭✭✭
I think we hit the best balance in like 4.3.2 or something and I know things changed since then, but let's ask ourselves this question....
Are the races fairly balanced? Can all the races contribute in someway, somewhere?
Orc - DPS Stamina (Damage)
Dunmer - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage)
Khajiit - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage / little Sustain)
Breton - DPS Mag / Heal (Damage/Sustain)
Alter - DPS Mag (Damage)
Argonian - Tank / Heal
Nord - Tank
Imperial - Tank / Stam DPS
Woodelf - Stam DPS (sustain)
Redguard - Stam DPS (sustain)
"But Orc is the best Stam DPS!"
So? There will always be a best. I'll play Khajiit, and probably out DPS 99% of Orc and Dunmer on my Stamblade/StamWarden. Why? Cause I'm really good at knowing my rotations and how to play. Orc doesn't ALWAYS out dps a khajiit anyways. Look at the test, you will see.
"Breton is the best DPS for mag!"
I heard Altmer with sustain food is fine.
I feel like, compared to live, we are closer to balanced than not.
I'm not going into things like Bosmer stealth, spell recharge and lore stuff. That's a different topic. But based on posts and other such.... I think we will be OK folks.
Now that said... I think I am a little worried that some changes will be more PVP based ( like do people REALLY play this game for the PVP only? ) So, that is something to look out for in the future.
Edited by Azyle1 on February 19, 2019 12:56PM Are the races fairly balanced? Can all the races contribute in someway, somewhere?
Orc - DPS Stamina (Damage)
Dunmer - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage)
Khajiit - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage / little Sustain)
Breton - DPS Mag / Heal (Damage/Sustain)
Alter - DPS Mag (Damage)
Argonian - Tank / Heal
Nord - Tank
Imperial - Tank / Stam DPS
Woodelf - Stam DPS (sustain)
Redguard - Stam DPS (sustain)
"But Orc is the best Stam DPS!"
So? There will always be a best. I'll play Khajiit, and probably out DPS 99% of Orc and Dunmer on my Stamblade/StamWarden. Why? Cause I'm really good at knowing my rotations and how to play. Orc doesn't ALWAYS out dps a khajiit anyways. Look at the test, you will see.
"Breton is the best DPS for mag!"
I heard Altmer with sustain food is fine.
I feel like, compared to live, we are closer to balanced than not.
I'm not going into things like Bosmer stealth, spell recharge and lore stuff. That's a different topic. But based on posts and other such.... I think we will be OK folks.
Now that said... I think I am a little worried that some changes will be more PVP based ( like do people REALLY play this game for the PVP only? ) So, that is something to look out for in the future.
10
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DoobZ69✭✭✭✭If asking if the races are balanced and stating its ok if theyre not is balanced then they were always balanced. So yes theyre balanced.
But no, theyre not balanced.
Breton can tank, dd, heal.
Bosmer can dd, tank but not heal.
Stated goal was universal role application. Result - fail.17 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If asking if the races are balanced and stating its ok if theyre not is balanced then they were always balanced. So yes theyre balanced.
But no, theyre not balanced.
Breton can tank, dd, heal.
Bosmer can dd, tank but not heal.
Stated goal was universal role application. Result - fail.
Bosmer can DD, tank and heal. Not competitively, but thety can.
Or, if you prefer, you coul try a stam healer (which is like the philosopher's stone, though no one has ever made a decent stam healer build)Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If asking if the races are balanced and stating its ok if theyre not is balanced then they were always balanced. So yes theyre balanced.
But no, theyre not balanced.
Breton can tank, dd, heal.
Bosmer can dd, tank but not heal.
Stated goal was universal role application. Result - fail.
Good job stating your goal in your own mind and then complaining that it was not what was actually happing in reality.3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are balanced fairly well. Magicka races are very close together, Stamina races as well. Besides some race slightly over-/underperforming ZOS did a surprisingly good job on this.
Don't let you fool by all the doomsayers. Go into the different threads with the tests/parses and check for yourself if you want to see proof for how close races are together in their respective fields.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -5 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).Edited by susmitds on February 19, 2019 1:18PM11 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Couldn’t agree with you more. I think the upset comes primarily from min maxed dps types who have a lot of high elves and redguards and are now going to be pushed off the top place. Otherwise there’s no reason to really complain as most races are well within reach of one another, and as you say player skill will make the differences a non issue for probably 99% of the player base.
But as to your last point, yes a good number of people play this game primarily for the PvP aspect and now that’s it seems like this aspect of the game is getting some attention we are very happy. PvE is largely way too easy rn and people have been saying this, even complaining about it, for quite some time. Now that some racial passives are only useful in PvP this should curb some of the power in PvE as you’ll need to adjust builds. Even so the difference is going to be so minimal. Basically you can apply the conclusion you’ve come to in the first part of your post, which I complete agree with, to the part concerning PvP.0 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
Some were considering a ~ 200 DPS difference (<0.5%) to be too much. Those players cannot be pleased.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
Some were considering a ~ 200 DPS difference (<0.5%) to be too much. Those players cannot be pleased.
I mean, I am in a high end trials guild on Xbox where we compete at the highest level we can and no one cares lol. Like, at some point, doing 55K plus dps self buffed has to be good enough for people.4 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Couldn’t agree with you more. I think the upset comes primarily from min maxed dps types who have a lot of high elves and redguards and are now going to be pushed off the top place. Otherwise there’s no reason to really complain as most races are well within reach of one another, and as you say player skill will make the differences a non issue for probably 99% of the player base.
The loudest whiners are people who are complaining about Bosmer loosing 3m reduction os stealth detection radius and Altmer fanboys who want their precious Altmers to be uncontended magicka BiS and cry foul because they got a (albeit not the greatest) diverstiy utility passive instead of pure magicka power increase. Real min/max DDs are pretty happy with new racials.6 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Azyle1 , I'm not sure parses (those with 800 dps difference) were done with high warhorn uptime. I suspect the gap between khajiits and orcs/dunmers will skyrocket with raid buffs since khajiit's racial is additive with Major Force. And raid-buffed scenario is the one we should care about most.Edited by John_Falstaff on February 19, 2019 1:33PM4 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Azyle1 , I'm not sure parses (those with 800 dps difference) were done with high warhorn uptime. I suspect the gap between khajiits and orcs/dunmers will skyrocket with raid buffs since khajiit's racial is additive with Major Force. And raid-buffed scenario is the one we should care about most.
Well, they were done with high horn uptime though. In full raid buff environment too.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Couldn’t agree with you more. I think the upset comes primarily from min maxed dps types who have a lot of high elves and redguards and are now going to be pushed off the top place. Otherwise there’s no reason to really complain as most races are well within reach of one another, and as you say player skill will make the differences a non issue for probably 99% of the player base.
The loudest whiners are people who are complaining about Bosmer loosing 3m reduction os stealth detection radius and Altmer fanboys who want their precious Altmers to be uncontended magicka BiS and cry foul because they got a (albeit not the greatest) diverstiy utility passive instead of pure magicka power increase. Real min/max DDs are pretty happy with new racials.
Bosmer players have a point though because their Stealth passives could be considered an integral part related to their lore which really matters. It's like taking away Altmer Magicka identity or Redguard Stamina identity. Altmer players on the other hand... lost nothing in that regard and are just complaining because, as you said, are not the superior race anymore.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Royaji , aha - thank you for linking; makes it more palatable I suppose. I didn't have the thread handy, so I couldn't tell right away if 0.8k from the source with raid buffs or without.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Couldn’t agree with you more. I think the upset comes primarily from min maxed dps types who have a lot of high elves and redguards and are now going to be pushed off the top place. Otherwise there’s no reason to really complain as most races are well within reach of one another, and as you say player skill will make the differences a non issue for probably 99% of the player base.
The loudest whiners are people who are complaining about Bosmer loosing 3m reduction os stealth detection radius and Altmer fanboys who want their precious Altmers to be uncontended magicka BiS and cry foul because they got a (albeit not the greatest) diverstiy utility passive instead of pure magicka power increase. Real min/max DDs are pretty happy with new racials.
Bosmer players have a point though because their Stealth passives could be considered an integral part related to their lore which really matters. It's like taking away Altmer Magicka identity or Redguard Stamina identity. Altmer players on the other hand... lost nothing in that regard and are just complaining because, as you said, are not the superior race anymore.
I'm not denying they have a point. Even though to me 3 meters from this passive are really not that relevant since just Night Mother's Embrace and Night Terror make you nearly undetectable already. And ZOS did promise to give this potential passive back through other skillines at a later date too. My point was that none of that is actual min/max talk.1 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Azyle1 , I'm not sure parses (those with 800 dps difference) were done with high warhorn uptime. I suspect the gap between khajiits and orcs/dunmers will skyrocket with raid buffs since khajiit's racial is additive with Major Force. And raid-buffed scenario is the one we should care about most.
Even if it was more........ oh well. I like my Khajiit. 1K dps? that is also 1K dps under excellent conditions and assuming the other "player" is equally as skilled. Trust me, a lot of people suck at this game from a high end DPS stand point.
Do I think Khajiit's could use a tiny "oomph"? Sure. I'd like to see a small buff to help level the field. Do they absolutely need it? I guess not.
Edited by Azyle1 on February 19, 2019 1:40PM1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
It's not the DPS though. It's the opportunity cost. What I mean here, say that if Khajiit did better as tanks than Dunmer, it would have been fine. But higher resource total+Flame resists means Dunmer will be better tanks too. Same with healers, where spell damage means Dunmers win with more consistent heals.
Sustain passive of Khajiit is already accounted for by the fact that Khajiit primary resource is lowest of all races and less than half of Dunmer. Even comparing the utility passive, Flame resists is better than Sneak bonus outside of Thief roleplay.
There is just no compelling reason to be a Khajiit gameplay wise as they lack a niche they excel at. Same for Nord.11 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think we hit the best balance in like 4.3.2 or something and I know things changed since then, but let's ask ourselves this question....
Are the races fairly balanced? Can all the races contribute in someway, somewhere?
Orc - DPS Stamina (Damage)
Dunmer - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage)
Khajiit - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage / little Sustain)
Breton - DPS Mag / Heal (Damage/Sustain)
Alter - DPS Mag (Damage)
Argonian - Tank / Heal
Nord - Tank
Imperial - Tank / Stam DPS
Woodelf - Stam DPS (sustain)
Redguard - Stam DPS (sustain)
"But Orc is the best Stam DPS!"
So? There will always be a best. I'll play Khajiit, and probably out DPS 99% of Orc and Dunmer on my Stamblade/StamWarden. Why? Cause I'm really good at knowing my rotations and how to play. Orc doesn't ALWAYS out dps a khajiit anyways. Look at the test, you will see.
"Breton is the best DPS for mag!"
I heard Altmer with sustain food is fine.
I feel like, compared to live, we are closer to balanced than not.
I'm not going into things like Bosmer stealth, spell recharge and lore stuff. That's a different topic. But based on posts and other such.... I think we will be OK folks.
Now that said... I think I am a little worried that some changes will be more PVP based ( like do people REALLY play this game for the PVP only? ) So, that is something to look out for in the future.
You are mostly with wrong information, Breton are not best DPS for Magicka.
You should try out your self soon.
Races are pretty balance, its between sustain or damage.
#StopComplainingWrong1 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »I think we hit the best balance in like 4.3.2 or something and I know things changed since then, but let's ask ourselves this question....
Are the races fairly balanced? Can all the races contribute in someway, somewhere?
Orc - DPS Stamina (Damage)
Dunmer - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage)
Khajiit - DPS Stam / Mag (Damage / little Sustain)
Breton - DPS Mag / Heal (Damage/Sustain)
Alter - DPS Mag (Damage)
Argonian - Tank / Heal
Nord - Tank
Imperial - Tank / Stam DPS
Woodelf - Stam DPS (sustain)
Redguard - Stam DPS (sustain)
"But Orc is the best Stam DPS!"
So? There will always be a best. I'll play Khajiit, and probably out DPS 99% of Orc and Dunmer on my Stamblade/StamWarden. Why? Cause I'm really good at knowing my rotations and how to play. Orc doesn't ALWAYS out dps a khajiit anyways. Look at the test, you will see.
"Breton is the best DPS for mag!"
I heard Altmer with sustain food is fine.
I feel like, compared to live, we are closer to balanced than not.
I'm not going into things like Bosmer stealth, spell recharge and lore stuff. That's a different topic. But based on posts and other such.... I think we will be OK folks.
Now that said... I think I am a little worried that some changes will be more PVP based ( like do people REALLY play this game for the PVP only? ) So, that is something to look out for in the future.
You are mostly with wrong information, Breton are not best DPS for Magicka.
You should try out your self soon.
Races are pretty balance, its between sustain or damage.
#StopComplainingWrong
I never said they were. The forums think otherwise.0 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
It's not the DPS though. It's the opportunity cost. What I mean here, say that if Khajiit did better as tanks than Dunmer, it would have been fine. But higher resource total+Flame resists means Dunmer will be better tanks too. Same with healers, where spell damage means Dunmers win with more consistent heals.
Sustain passive of Khajiit is already accounted for by the fact that Khajiit primary resource is lowest of all races and less than half of Dunmer. Even comparing the utility passive, Flame resists is better than Sneak bonus outside of Thief roleplay.
There is just no compelling reason to be a Khajiit gameplay wise as they lack a niche they excel at. Same for Nord.
Maybe we will see some surprise then on the release next week. Seems to be the trend, anyways.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If asking if the races are balanced and stating its ok if theyre not is balanced then they were always balanced. So yes theyre balanced.
But no, theyre not balanced.
Breton can tank, dd, heal.
Bosmer can dd, tank but not heal.
Stated goal was universal role application. Result - fail.
Actually, ZOS's stated goal was nothing of the sort.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think so.
Why?
Because Khajiit should be the superior race and should always OP over every other race no matter the build.
Do it, ZOS.Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA3 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
It's not the DPS though. It's the opportunity cost. What I mean here, say that if Khajiit did better as tanks than Dunmer, it would have been fine. But higher resource total+Flame resists means Dunmer will be better tanks too. Same with healers, where spell damage means Dunmers win with more consistent heals.
Sustain passive of Khajiit is already accounted for by the fact that Khajiit primary resource is lowest of all races and less than half of Dunmer. Even comparing the utility passive, Flame resists is better than Sneak bonus outside of Thief roleplay.
There is just no compelling reason to be a Khajiit gameplay wise as they lack a niche they excel at. Same for Nord.
Exactly my issue. Dunmer and khajiit are essentially very similar. Both are raw DD races. Except Dunmer is a top-tier race in that aspect (2nd in average) while Khajiit is a mid-tier race (4th in average). Combat wise, why choose the 4th Khajiit when you can choose the 2nd Dunmer? This is compounded by the fact the exact next race, DD wise, Imperial has much higher resources, over twice the sustain, ultimate cost reduction etc. This means people want raw damage will go Dunmer and people want to be Jack of all trades will go Imperial.3 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭your assessment isn't correct because Redguard is the best overall tank.
only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard1 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
It's not the DPS though. It's the opportunity cost. What I mean here, say that if Khajiit did better as tanks than Dunmer, it would have been fine. But higher resource total+Flame resists means Dunmer will be better tanks too. Same with healers, where spell damage means Dunmers win with more consistent heals.
Sustain passive of Khajiit is already accounted for by the fact that Khajiit primary resource is lowest of all races and less than half of Dunmer. Even comparing the utility passive, Flame resists is better than Sneak bonus outside of Thief roleplay.
There is just no compelling reason to be a Khajiit gameplay wise as they lack a niche they excel at. Same for Nord.
Exactly my issue. Dunmer and khajiit are essentially very similar. Both are raw DD races. Except Dunmer is a top-tier race in that aspect (2nd in average) while Khajiit is a mid-tier race (4th in average). Combat wise, why choose the 4th Khajiit when you can choose the 2nd Dunmer? This is compounded by the fact the exact next race, DD wise, Imperial has much higher resources, over twice the sustain, ultimate cost reduction etc. This means people want raw damage will go Dunmer and people want to be Jack of all trades will go Imperial.
I can play my KHajiit on Stamina dps and still out dps other people due to skill. I am not severely gimping myself. I do not see a HUGE problem with this.
Again, do I think the races still need tuning? Yes.
In general is Orc is a little overtuned and Khajiit/Bosmer could use some love but.. baby steps.Edited by Azyle1 on February 19, 2019 2:14PM2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
It's not the DPS though. It's the opportunity cost. What I mean here, say that if Khajiit did better as tanks than Dunmer, it would have been fine. But higher resource total+Flame resists means Dunmer will be better tanks too. Same with healers, where spell damage means Dunmers win with more consistent heals.
Sustain passive of Khajiit is already accounted for by the fact that Khajiit primary resource is lowest of all races and less than half of Dunmer. Even comparing the utility passive, Flame resists is better than Sneak bonus outside of Thief roleplay.
There is just no compelling reason to be a Khajiit gameplay wise as they lack a niche they excel at. Same for Nord.
Exactly my issue. Dunmer and khajiit are essentially very similar. Both are raw DD races. Except Dunmer is a top-tier race in that aspect (2nd in average) while Khajiit is a mid-tier race (4th in average). Combat wise, why choose the 4th Khajiit when you can choose the 2nd Dunmer? This is compounded by the fact the exact next race, DD wise, Imperial has much higher resources, over twice the sustain, ultimate cost reduction etc. This means people want raw damage will go Dunmer and people want to be Jack of all trades will go Imperial.
I can play my KHajiit on Stamina dps and still out dps other people due to skill. I am not severely gimping myself. I do not see a HUGE problem with this.
Again, do I think the races still need tuning? Yes.
In general is Orc is a little overtuned and Khajiit/Bosmer could use some love but.. baby steps.
Exactly this. I have two Khajiits, one Imperial, two Altmers and three Argonians and I won't race-change anyone. All I hope is that ZOS continues to tweak races to balance them further after the changes go live. Don't leave the races as it is on PTS for the next three years to come and we are all fine.2 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Looking from the macro level, the races are balanced. But, we look at micro level and comparison the passives of individual races, their in-combat implications at various different situations, their set value strength and synergies with existing passives, there are cases when certain races are better than a similar other race in almost every single situation (Imperial vs Nord, Dunmer vs Khajiit, etc).
But The difference between say, Khajiit and Dunmer is what? 800 dps max? That isn't even big enough to warrant worrying over a score run / Leader Board Run.
It's not the DPS though. It's the opportunity cost. What I mean here, say that if Khajiit did better as tanks than Dunmer, it would have been fine. But higher resource total+Flame resists means Dunmer will be better tanks too. Same with healers, where spell damage means Dunmers win with more consistent heals.
Sustain passive of Khajiit is already accounted for by the fact that Khajiit primary resource is lowest of all races and less than half of Dunmer. Even comparing the utility passive, Flame resists is better than Sneak bonus outside of Thief roleplay.
There is just no compelling reason to be a Khajiit gameplay wise as they lack a niche they excel at. Same for Nord.
Exactly my issue. Dunmer and khajiit are essentially very similar. Both are raw DD races. Except Dunmer is a top-tier race in that aspect (2nd in average) while Khajiit is a mid-tier race (4th in average). Combat wise, why choose the 4th Khajiit when you can choose the 2nd Dunmer? This is compounded by the fact the exact next race, DD wise, Imperial has much higher resources, over twice the sustain, ultimate cost reduction etc. This means people want raw damage will go Dunmer and people want to be Jack of all trades will go Imperial.
I can play my KHajiit on Stamina dps and still out dps other people due to skill. I am not severely gimping myself. I do not see a HUGE problem with this.
Again, do I think the races still need tuning? Yes.
In general is Orc is a little overtuned and Khajiit/Bosmer could use some love but.. baby steps.
Exactly this. I have two Khajiits, one Imperial, two Altmers and three Argonians and I won't race-change anyone. All I hope is that ZOS continues to tweak races to balance them further after the changes go live. Don't leave the races as it is on PTS for the next three years to come and we are all fine.
Yep. Some adjustments while we keep going on the adventure is good.0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Orcs are overtuned a tad for PVP, but not anywhere near enough to make me play one of those ugly mugs. Imperial seems to still be a bit up in the air, and Argonians we need to see how they perform in the long run.
Very well balanced in general though.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade0 -
Narthalion✭✭✭I'm mostly OK with the coming changes, but do question the weighting of some of these passives. Compare Orc to Altmer, for instance. Each gets 2000 primary stat, and 258 primary damage, which I think we can safely assume consumes the same amount of bonus budget. So logically the remaining passives must be weighted equally, right?
This means that:- Restore 645 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever maximum is lower, after activating a Class Ability. 6 second cooldown.
- Reduce damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
...is in ZOS's evaluation equal to:- 1000 Health
- Heal up to 600 when you deal damage with a weapon, with a 4 second cooldown.
- Reduce the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%
Does this really look like an equal value of stat bonus? Maybe? I mean, I could be convinced I guess. But my current opinion is no, these are not equal.
And for reference, ZOS said in 4.3.0: "Racial passives that pertain to combat bonuses have gone through re-evaluation to better align their performance in regards to our set bonus efficiency standard, while improving the unique gameplay elements the races provide." So it seems fair to me to hold up the results of this pass to that standard.Edited by Narthalion on February 19, 2019 3:31PM5
