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Every Skill has a counter except Reflect...
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D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Come on ZOS, put on your thinking hats...
I can cast DK wings a number of times on my StamDK. If you want to prevent me from doing so, Magicka and Stamina drain poisons do the job well. Also, Templar eclipse is suicide for a DK. When I get eclipsed, I have to escape on my slow ass Dragonknight because I dont have a purge setup. There are PLENTY of players who counter my reflect attempts. DK's get a lot of aggro in PvP, and I have to spam it on very limited magicka because im alway getting more than 4 projectiles in 1 second in medium to large fights. Also, ultimate draining poisons are tough for me to deal with.
To find counters, duel a friend running the very skills you're having trouble with and figure out what works best. Thats how I delt with pre-nerf Rune Cage.
Edit: I quoted the wrong person.Edited by D0PAMINE on February 18, 2019 3:02AM3 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭you can not reflect anything, except the reflectable skills
Hmmm so are you suggesting that if I pay attention and notice some very obvious telegraphed wings then I should not use reflectable skills and continue to kill myself with my own skills?
Or are you suggesting that I use some of the many other non reflectable skills available to me?
Either way sounds like an awful amount of work, crying for nerfs seems so much easier! Lol jk
5 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »The counter are skills that do not reflect. It doesn’t reflect everything. Put on your thinking hat.
it stupid to have to redo you build to combat 1 skill. it reflects all the good things in a ranged build, it should at least let some damage through. At least shield you can beat down the shield and get rid of it. Reflect just negates all the damage and even sends it back, then they just cast it again or you get snared and and whipped and dawnbreakered to death while you realize the best option is just to flee.
Any build is not good for everything. It must be good overall.
With that, a great many of us have figured all this out, especially after the multiple nerfs wings has gotten over the years. So to suggest Zos needs to put on their thinking caps when you refuse to do so seems rather not so bright. Especially when you suggest the skill doesn’t have a counter when it does then there see,s to be something missing on your side of the equation.
If you think Zos doesn’t see that with a very uninformative OP with inaccurate information then your mistaken. If you are interested in changes to the skill than I’d suggest an informative and intelligent approach to creating the thread.
Just because something has a counter it doesn't make it balanced or fair. 1 skill should not be able to completely shut down 1 style of play. It's just needs to let some damage through. It can keep the return damage at full amount. It's like you are saying just don't play ranged. just don't play magblade. Just put a bunch of bad skills on your bar just so DK can laugh as you try to tickle them to death. Seriously, screw that.
So are you telling me that everything in your build can be reflected? Then the issue is YOUR build NOT the skill. Of course, someone will use that skill for the purpose of reflecting damage, that's what the skill is for. Otherwise, why have that skill in the first place? The skill has a counter, use those instead of crying over something that you have control of. It's just laziness and/or zero creativity (perhaps knowledge) on how to deal with things that don't go your way. As what OP suggested, put on your thinking caps.
Also, just FYI, reflect isn't exclusive to DKs. I use reflect on my magplar with sword and board, thank you very much.Edited by me_ming on February 18, 2019 1:51AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]5 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think before somebody starts a nerf thread or post they should have to say what class they play.
What's class do you play, OP?1 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »The counter are skills that do not reflect. It doesn’t reflect everything. Put on your thinking hat.
it stupid to have to redo you build to combat 1 skill. it reflects all the good things in a ranged build, it should at least let some damage through. At least shield you can beat down the shield and get rid of it. Reflect just negates all the damage and even sends it back, then they just cast it again or you get snared and and whipped and dawnbreakered to death while you realize the best option is just to flee.
Any build is not good for everything. It must be good overall.
With that, a great many of us have figured all this out, especially after the multiple nerfs wings has gotten over the years. So to suggest Zos needs to put on their thinking caps when you refuse to do so seems rather not so bright. Especially when you suggest the skill doesn’t have a counter when it does then there see,s to be something missing on your side of the equation.
If you think Zos doesn’t see that with a very uninformative OP with inaccurate information then your mistaken. If you are interested in changes to the skill than I’d suggest an informative and intelligent approach to creating the thread.
Just because something has a counter it doesn't make it balanced or fair. 1 skill should not be able to completely shut down 1 style of play. It's just needs to let some damage through. It can keep the return damage at full amount. It's like you are saying just don't play ranged. just don't play magblade. Just put a bunch of bad skills on your bar just so DK can laugh as you try to tickle them to death. Seriously, screw that.
So are you telling me that everything in your build can be reflected? Then the issue is YOUR build NOT the skill. Of course, someone will use that skill for the purpose of reflecting damage, that's what the skill is for. Otherwise, why have that skill in the first place? The skill has a counter, use those instead of crying over something that you have control of. It's just laziness and/or zero creativity (perhaps knowledge) on how to deal with things that don't go your way. As what OP suggested, put on your thinking caps.
Also, just FYI, reflect isn't exclusive to DKs. I use reflect on my magplar with sword and board, thank you very much.
Defensive Stance?0 -
BrokenString✭✭✭The only skill that I feel is special in my DK is the wings, the rest is just meh, maybe Batman but Dawnbreaker is somewhat better to pvp. Please don't ruin that
Edit:
Wings = reflective plate
Batman = take flightEdited by BrokenString on February 18, 2019 6:33AM1 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭hes obviously magnb magicka nightblades are a rly hard class to play in pvp and dk in general are just a hard counter for them. if they would change 1 or 2 skills of the magicka nightblades it would be balanced but as of now its rly *** up how bad they are compared to stamina nightblades.
if pvp is what u want change to stamina nbEdited by Noctus on February 18, 2019 7:15AM0 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭JumpmanLane wrote: »itscompton wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Only reflects 4 projectiles for 6 seconds...not and end all be all skill making the user unkillable. Try harder.
I think that depends on the matchup. Even a top notch flame reach spamming Sorc (seems to be the Sorc Meta) is never going to kill a well played MDK if the DK has decent recovery. I've literally watched some of the best Sorcs on PS4 just run away when they realize the opponent is a halfway decent MDK. Maybe if Total Dark could have 100% uptime my Magtemp would have a chance against those Sorcs or be able to make them run away too.
True enough Sorcs run. Even when I run something like Spinner’s Julianos with horrible sustain has them streaking away. I don’t chase generally so if I don’t know and hate said sorc we both live to fight another day. Must every encounter end in death?
If the Sorc stuck around chances are I’d kill him. If he stuck around and timed things right he could kill me. I think folks want to fire 1 or two skills and 1 or 2 shot everyone. If they can’t they cry for nerfs.
Yeah they just see the wings and give up without even testing. I actually have wings slotted on my SDK and it scares off Sorcs who don't know I can only cast it 2 maybe three times before I'm hosed.
2 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DK Wings aren't cheap to cast, try resource poisons. Drain their mag and stam and poison dot them, you can work em down.Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!0 -
Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I read this thread as
"I am lazy and do not wish to use another setup against certain playstyle so zenimax should balance entire game around my laziness"
Get a job.5 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »DK Wings aren't cheap to cast, try resource poisons. Drain their mag and stam and poison dot them, you can work em down.
I usually use resto light attacks. Instant and deal less damage, it works pretty well on permaflappers forcing them to spam reflect to often to sustain it
If this doesn't work I'll just leave that turtle alone 
I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭My Dk disagrees with that statement.DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Count to four?GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »The counter are skills that do not reflect. It doesn’t reflect everything. Put on your thinking hat.
it stupid to have to redo you build to combat 1 skill. it reflects all the good things in a ranged build, it should at least let some damage through. At least shield you can beat down the shield and get rid of it. Reflect just negates all the damage and even sends it back, then they just cast it again or you get snared and and whipped and dawnbreakered to death while you realize the best option is just to flee.
Any build is not good for everything. It must be good overall.
With that, a great many of us have figured all this out, especially after the multiple nerfs wings has gotten over the years. So to suggest Zos needs to put on their thinking caps when you refuse to do so seems rather not so bright. Especially when you suggest the skill doesn’t have a counter when it does then there see,s to be something missing on your side of the equation.
If you think Zos doesn’t see that with a very uninformative OP with inaccurate information then your mistaken. If you are interested in changes to the skill than I’d suggest an informative and intelligent approach to creating the thread.
Just because something has a counter it doesn't make it balanced or fair. 1 skill should not be able to completely shut down 1 style of play. It's just needs to let some damage through. It can keep the return damage at full amount. It's like you are saying just don't play ranged. just don't play magblade. Just put a bunch of bad skills on your bar just so DK can laugh as you try to tickle them to death. Seriously, screw that.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS2 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭itscompton wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »itscompton wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Only reflects 4 projectiles for 6 seconds...not and end all be all skill making the user unkillable. Try harder.
I think that depends on the matchup. Even a top notch flame reach spamming Sorc (seems to be the Sorc Meta) is never going to kill a well played MDK if the DK has decent recovery. I've literally watched some of the best Sorcs on PS4 just run away when they realize the opponent is a halfway decent MDK. Maybe if Total Dark could have 100% uptime my Magtemp would have a chance against those Sorcs or be able to make them run away too.
True enough Sorcs run. Even when I run something like Spinner’s Julianos with horrible sustain has them streaking away. I don’t chase generally so if I don’t know and hate said sorc we both live to fight another day. Must every encounter end in death?
If the Sorc stuck around chances are I’d kill him. If he stuck around and timed things right he could kill me. I think folks want to fire 1 or two skills and 1 or 2 shot everyone. If they can’t they cry for nerfs.
Yeah they just see the wings and give up without even testing. I actually have wings slotted on my SDK and it scares off Sorcs who don't know I can only cast it 2 maybe three times before I'm hosed.
That’s funny. When I run Spinners Julianos I can cast wings 3 or FOUR times before I’m hosed, but most folks see wings up and give up on range attacks or fighting at all.
I killed a bowtard noob once who must have been running bow/bow just reflecting all his attacks. I thought was that an NPC lol.Edited by JumpmanLane on February 19, 2019 12:52AM0 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »The counter is a skill with an animation that draws essence from an enemy...like Swallow Soul...oh wait it can be reflected.
Seems logical.
It then becomes a throw up soul
PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459061/funnel-health-rework
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459252/comparison-conceiled-weapon-vs-suprise-attack/p1
this will fix the problem. the only class that is hard countered by reflect is magicka nightblade. if u get like a few choices it would help. stamina is atm just faaaar better so i advice switching if u wanna play pvpEdited by Noctus on February 19, 2019 7:56AM0 -
Alpheu5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GarnetFire17 wrote: »The counter are skills that do not reflect. It doesn’t reflect everything. Put on your thinking hat.
it stupid to have to redo you build to combat 1 skill. it reflects all the good things in a ranged build, it should at least let some damage through. At least shield you can beat down the shield and get rid of it. Reflect just negates all the damage and even sends it back, then they just cast it again or you get snared and and whipped and dawnbreakered to death while you realize the best option is just to flee.
I don’t want to redo my build to counter cloak but I have to.
Except there aren't any anti-reflect potions.
There are no anti-cloak potions either. Detect pots only increase stealth detection, cloak is total invisibility, you could have every stealth detection buff in the game going at the same time and a cloak spamming Nightblade could still do a jig on your head and you wouldn't know it.
If you drink a detect pot, every single thing within that radius becomes visible to you, whether they're sneaking, using an invisibility potion, or doing a jig on your head while cloaked. Go watch any video where someone uses a detect pot on a Nightblade and you'll see they remain completely visible while in the radius.
So yes, anti-cloak potions exist.Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian DragonknightJudas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.4 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you are ranged stam, use crushing weapon and ballista. Sure you'll eat your light attacks, but the dk will eat your ballista, enchants/poisons and crushing weapon. It is funny to see a dk spam wings when attacked by a ballista while blocking making them oom and oos quickly.0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭i want anti reflect potions
. most painfull experience against a dk is definately a magicka nightblade. the whole kit is garbage u can only spam detro staff thats it. there is no way u win a fight like that Edited by Noctus on February 20, 2019 11:47PM0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reflects are fine. What's not is the lack of magic/elemental damage melee weapons.Edited by zyk on February 21, 2019 12:14AM0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Maaaaaaybe...most painfull experience against a dk is definately a magicka nightblade...
Because other then DKs, Magblades can play pretty much everything with "one skill fits all", and lifedrain their way to victory.
Although, I gotta say archers also are not happy to see flapping wings...
(Main PvP character is an arrow girl!)
Still, there are two ways to react. One can while on the forums... or adapt and adjust. Find thinsg the DK cannot reflect, like AoE attacks for example...
I mean, I had the same issues playing my archer girl. Not fun having your snipe thrown back into your face, right? And worst, back then I did not have vigor, and had to rely on swallow soul to heal... you can imagine how that went, right? These days... I still am not happy to see wings, but I have an acid spray so I can throw at least -something-...
One better I did on my Sorc boi... ran into a blue DK one time while questing in cyrodil, got my ice bolts (back then that was still DPS) and beloved crystal frags thrown back in my face and shield-steamrolled in short order. Really, it was almost a "flawless victory" for the guy. Changed my selection, came back with a lightning staff and daedric mines & curses... and happened to run into the very same DK as he turned in the same quesat I was there to to turn in! With a completely reversed result, he wasted resource on flapping his wings when I had nothing reflectable... and thus I got that sweeeeeet revenge!
Now, I am at best an barely adequate PvPlayer... so... if I can do it, many others could as well even with a magblade - if they just thought about it and made their back bar the "Anti-DK selection" with a lightning or resto staff and -only- stuff that cannot be reflected!
But in the end, reflect does not have a counter because reflect IS the counter. Use somerhing it doesn't counter and its just a waste of MP! 1 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GarnetFire17 wrote: »The counter are skills that do not reflect. It doesn’t reflect everything. Put on your thinking hat.
it stupid to have to redo you build to combat 1 skill. it reflects all the good things in a ranged build, it should at least let some damage through. At least shield you can beat down the shield and get rid of it. Reflect just negates all the damage and even sends it back, then they just cast it again or you get snared and and whipped and dawnbreakered to death while you realize the best option is just to flee.
I don’t want to redo my build to counter cloak but I have to.
Yeah. Carrying detect pots on Stam citscompton wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »itscompton wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Only reflects 4 projectiles for 6 seconds...not and end all be all skill making the user unkillable. Try harder.
I think that depends on the matchup. Even a top notch flame reach spamming Sorc (seems to be the Sorc Meta) is never going to kill a well played MDK if the DK has decent recovery. I've literally watched some of the best Sorcs on PS4 just run away when they realize the opponent is a halfway decent MDK. Maybe if Total Dark could have 100% uptime my Magtemp would have a chance against those Sorcs or be able to make them run away too.
True enough Sorcs run. Even when I run something like Spinner’s Julianos with horrible sustain has them streaking away. I don’t chase generally so if I don’t know and hate said sorc we both live to fight another day. Must every encounter end in death?
If the Sorc stuck around chances are I’d kill him. If he stuck around and timed things right he could kill me. I think folks want to fire 1 or two skills and 1 or 2 shot everyone. If they can’t they cry for nerfs.
Yeah they just see the wings and give up without even testing. I actually have wings slotted on my SDK and it scares off Sorcs who don't know I can only cast it 2 maybe three times before I'm hosed.
It’s true. I watch how they react. They usually panic and go to heavy resto attacks and throwing out curse.
That’s the window to go in and start beating on them.0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Maaaaaaybe...most painfull experience against a dk is definately a magicka nightblade...
Because other then DKs, Magblades can play pretty much everything with "one skill fits all", and lifedrain their way to victory.
Although, I gotta say archers also are not happy to see flapping wings...
(Main PvP character is an arrow girl!)
Still, there are two ways to react. One can while on the forums... or adapt and adjust. Find thinsg the DK cannot reflect, like AoE attacks for example...
I mean, I had the same issues playing my archer girl. Not fun having your snipe thrown back into your face, right? And worst, back then I did not have vigor, and had to rely on swallow soul to heal... you can imagine how that went, right? These days... I still am not happy to see wings, but I have an acid spray so I can throw at least -something-...
One better I did on my Sorc boi... ran into a blue DK one time while questing in cyrodil, got my ice bolts (back then that was still DPS) and beloved crystal frags thrown back in my face and shield-steamrolled in short order. Really, it was almost a "flawless victory" for the guy. Changed my selection, came back with a lightning staff and daedric mines & curses... and happened to run into the very same DK as he turned in the same quesat I was there to to turn in! With a completely reversed result, he wasted resource on flapping his wings when I had nothing reflectable... and thus I got that sweeeeeet revenge!
Now, I am at best an barely adequate PvPlayer... so... if I can do it, many others could as well even with a magblade - if they just thought about it and made their back bar the "Anti-DK selection" with a lightning or resto staff and -only- stuff that cannot be reflected!
But in the end, reflect does not have a counter because reflect IS the counter. Use somerhing it doesn't counter and its just a waste of MP!
i think u dont understand the issue with magnb they dont have anything that isnt reflected. u can work around it as a sorc or as a templar for example but magnb is just garbage to the point that its only worth going as stamina nb into pvp.
reflect has a counter its called eclipse
not like i qq i can switch to any of my characters whenever i like but im stating the obviousEdited by Noctus on February 21, 2019 12:44AM0 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭A counter to the counter
Then we should ask for another counter to that counter1
