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Khajiit(4.3.2) Critical Hit Chance vs Khajiit(4.3.3) Critical Hit Damage Breakdown/Analysis

  • Rex-Umbra
    Rex-Umbra
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    Was told cats were to be my fury overlords so been leveling one.... he has like 20% crit so he is poopy now
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbra IX
  • ExistingRug61
    susmitds wrote: »

    So, the equation below will give us the sweet spot, when New Khajiit will beat Old Khajiit.
    plot.png

    X = 97.5% Critical Hit Chance

    @susmitds

    From what I can tell the breakpoint when solving for x in this equation is
    X=75.2%
    (not 97.5)

    ie: it is a buff if crit chance is more than 75.2%, a nerf if it is less.
    This is in line with what @LiquidPony found and @Bladerunner1

    [edit] added @Bladerunner1 getting same result. ninja'd
    Edited by ExistingRug61 on February 11, 2019 10:23PM
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    susmitds wrote: »

    I also get 75.2% as the correct answer.

    It appears that you are calculating ((100 - x) / 100) * 0.1 in the second expression group (rather than * 1.0). It should just be (100 - x) /100, should it not?

    bBhZ7vH.gif
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Somebody did the math wrong...
  • robpr
    robpr
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    For average player like me, I won't see much of a difference.
    (MagDK)

    Khajiit
    yJwdB5Y.jpg

    Breton (with Berserker enchant)
    CKgBFA9.jpg

    Altmer
    ZdjwNNo.jpg

    Dunmer
    Q3Uuxmn.jpg

    Do the dummy, not math.
    Edited by robpr on February 11, 2019 11:00PM
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    Just grabbing another random parse out of Discord (on a Redguard with The Lover so no built-in crit modifiers that have to be accounted for):

    46kxRl0.gif

    That's with a 99.9% mean critical damage modifier (50% base + 10% minor force + 10% passive + 23% CP + 6.9% Major Force).

    In that case, the point is 79.2%. In the parse I'm looking at, the mean weapon critical was 81.5%. So in this case (a meta stamblade running Rele/AY/Veli on Valariel), the new Khajiit passive is a *very small* buff.
  • Supernatural
    Supernatural
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    It is definetely a buff for burst-oriented environments, such as PvP and Maelstrom Arena, where 8% crit chance will not make that much of a difference in the first place, due to how short the fights are. In a raid environment I doubt the difference will be noticeable, at least for stamina.

    What I would like to understand is the reasoning behind this change. There wasn't a single comment from the devs regarding the racial changes.
    Edited by Supernatural on February 11, 2019 11:32PM
    World's First Veteran Maelstrom Arena Nightblade 600k - 02/18/2017
  • zaria
    zaria
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    It is definetely a buff for burst-oriented environments, such as PvP and Maelstrom Arena, where 8% crit chance will not make that much of a difference in the first place, due to how short the fights are. In a raid environment I doubt the difference will be noticeable, at least for stamina.

    What I would like to understand is the reasoning behind this change. There wasn't a single comment from the devs regarding the racial changes.
    Just fished an poor Argonian out of an flooded river outside Craglorn, an flash flood of Altmer tears.

    Altmer should be balanced to Dunmer.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Facefister
    Facefister
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    So in short, Stamina players should replace the Trap with something else?
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Facefister wrote: »
    So in short, Stamina players should replace the Trap with something else?

    No ?
  • Facefister
    Facefister
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    So in short, Stamina players should replace the Trap with something else?

    No ?
    Sorry I didn't clarify; A Khajiit Stamblade, Stamplar
  • ruikkarikun
    ruikkarikun
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    For people who are interested in whether this is a nerf or buff for your Khajiiti characters, I made this helpful flow chart for you.

    Assuming 20 percent additional crit damage from CP, Mother's Sorrow body on magicka DPS, Advancing Yokeda on stamina DPS:

    9Y4tbPB.jpg

    tl;dr: For stam, it's a general buff unless you're a NB/Templar with Major Force up. For mag, it's a general nerf unless you're not a NB/Templar and Major Force is not up.

    Hey, like your videos:)
    Whanted to ask what do you think about khajiit DK (for pvp). Will it work? Seems it's buff according to table xD
    Edited by ruikkarikun on February 12, 2019 1:35AM
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    susmitds wrote: »
    • Khajiit overall nerfed for PvE compared to previous PTS patch. Magicka based Khajiit builds will be hit harder as Magicka meta builds have around 58% Critical Hit Chance. Khajiit Nightblades and Khajiit Templars will take the biggest nerfs.
    • Previously, Khajiit used to benefit highest from Warhorn. Now, Khajiit will benefit the least of all races from Warhorn.
    • Khajiit overall buffed for PvP. Remember the 10% Sneak Damage Khajiit and Wood Elves lost? Well, it is back, except it now applies to all crits. This is a buff to gankers.
    • This needs testing to confirm which I will do over the next few days, but calculation-wise 10% Critical Damage is significantly weaker than 254 Weapon Damage. Only above around 9600 Effective Weapon/Spell Damage(Max Resources + Base Spell/Weapon Damage) and 80% Critical Hit Chance, 10% Critical Damage equals 254 Damage. This can mean Khajiit will be significantly weaker in Damage output compared to Altmer/Dunmer/Orc. Note - As I said before I haven't tested this yet so I can't confirm.

    ..............GIGANTIC GROAN
    CP1,000+ Master Explorer - AvA Tribune - Console Peasant
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    • Khajiit overall nerfed for PvE compared to previous PTS patch. Magicka based Khajiit builds will be hit harder as Magicka meta builds have around 58% Critical Hit Chance. Khajiit Nightblades and Khajiit Templars will take the biggest nerfs.
    • Previously, Khajiit used to benefit highest from Warhorn. Now, Khajiit will benefit the least of all races from Warhorn.
    • Khajiit overall buffed for PvP. Remember the 10% Sneak Damage Khajiit and Wood Elves lost? Well, it is back, except it now applies to all crits. This is a buff to gankers.
    • This needs testing to confirm which I will do over the next few days, but calculation-wise 10% Critical Damage is significantly weaker than 254 Weapon Damage. Only above around 9600 Effective Weapon/Spell Damage(Max Resources + Base Spell/Weapon Damage) and 80% Critical Hit Chance, 10% Critical Damage equals 254 Damage. This can mean Khajiit will be significantly weaker in Damage output compared to Altmer/Dunmer/Orc. Note - As I said before I haven't tested this yet so I can't confirm.

    ..............GIGANTIC GROAN

    Read the rest of the thread.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    I think the uproar over passives is much ado about nothing. I've seen the OP's posts on the breakdown of the effects of some these changes and it's some pretty amazing work and I applaud him for it.

    However, for 99% of us, a 1k difference in a 60k parse because of a passive is absolutely meaningless.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Facefister wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Facefister wrote: »
    So in short, Stamina players should replace the Trap with something else?

    No ?
    Sorry I didn't clarify; A Khajiit Stamblade, Stamplar

    No ?
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Now we just need magicka equivalent of advancing yokeda that will proc of range dmg :D
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    Jimmy wrote: »
    What is happening to ESO? How are they screwing this up this bad? These people over at ZOS just opened a can of worms with this whole racial passive rework. Ultimately, across the board, it's nerf nerf nerf. This is so sad.

    Unless you're an Orc there is no such things as nerfs.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    When did you have time to make all these calculations?

    Lets say average crit chance before patch was 70% and 78% for Khajit and average crit damage was 90

    So if you have 78 crit change 90 crit damage you get 148% damage average and if you have 70% crit chance and 100 crit damage you get 140% average damage so yeah new one is actually weaker unless new builds start to stack more crit chance

    Not excatly. You forgot that when You increase amount of critical hits You lower the amount of non critical hits so if You have 78% crit chance You expect 78% crit hits and 22% non crit hits but when You have 70% crit chance You expect 70% crit hits and 30% non crit hits and You need to include non crit hits also to the equation.

    So correct calculation would be
    78*1.9+22*1=170,2
    70*2+30*1=170

    So now we do 170,2-170=0,2 and then 0,2/170=0,0011765 to know that 8% crit chance gives overall 0,1% more dmg then 10% crit dmg which basically means that dmg difference is not even noticable.
  • luizpaulom17
    luizpaulom17
    Soul Shriven
    What a stupid discussion using formulas when there are people who already proven on PTS that Khajjit is doing less critical damage... *** Zos for that nerf! They are completely
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    What a stupid discussion using formulas when there are people who already proven on PTS that Khajjit is doing less critical damage... *** Zos for that nerf! They are completely

    You see this discussion is to explain to people like You @luizpaulom17 that You got disoriented by rigged tests taken out of context.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    @susmitds I think You should really double check Your math. Even the ground school equations and simple logic say that You got something wrong.

    I think in the calculation You've posted in second bracket instead of multiplying sign You have comma and that may cause an issue.
  • Zelos
    Zelos
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    All I read was "Buff to ganker", thanks zos.
    Aeonhack - DC Stamina Nightblade - 2 Star General

    CP1075
  • Banana
    Banana
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    I dont like math.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    • Khajiit overall nerfed for PvE compared to previous PTS patch. Magicka based Khajiit builds will be hit harder as Magicka meta builds have around 58% Critical Hit Chance. Khajiit Nightblades and Khajiit Templars will take the biggest nerfs.
    • Previously, Khajiit used to benefit highest from Warhorn. Now, Khajiit will benefit the least of all races from Warhorn.
    • Khajiit overall buffed for PvP. Remember the 10% Sneak Damage Khajiit and Wood Elves lost? Well, it is back, except it now applies to all crits. This is a buff to gankers.
    • This needs testing to confirm which I will do over the next few days, but calculation-wise 10% Critical Damage is significantly weaker than 254 Weapon Damage. Only above around 9600 Effective Weapon/Spell Damage(Max Resources + Base Spell/Weapon Damage) and 80% Critical Hit Chance, 10% Critical Damage equals 254 Damage. This can mean Khajiit will be significantly weaker in Damage output compared to Altmer/Dunmer/Orc. Note - As I said before I haven't tested this yet so I can't confirm.

    ..............GIGANTIC GROAN

    Read the rest of the thread.

    From what I see some builds got nerfed and some got buffed. Mine sits in the nerfed section.
    CP1,000+ Master Explorer - AvA Tribune - Console Peasant
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Zelos wrote: »
    All I read was "Buff to ganker", thanks zos.

    Actually khajit lost 10% more dmg from stealth attack already in 4.3.0 so he was nerfed as ganker.
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
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    Good post, please post parses when finished.

    Than You.
    Edited by Lord_Dexter on February 12, 2019 7:41AM
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    I'll just post it in this thread also since many people still seems to be confused.

    Examples of how the change will affect certain stats compositions:
    50% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,4% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    50% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,9% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    50% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,5% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    50% crit chance 100% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,9% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,2% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,2% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,7% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 100% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,2% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,9% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,4% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,1% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 100% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,6% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,5% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,9% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,4% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 100% crit dmg - no difference in dmg
    Edited by Juhasow on February 12, 2019 8:55AM
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