MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

I think the majority can live with min-maxers being not 100% happy with the upcoming changes.

Even you must acknowledge that the Altmer parsing results are totally fine and the gaps between Breton, Khajiit, Altmer and Dunmer are nothing more than numbers on paper.

I think we all can admit that racials after the changes will be a lot more balanced and healthier for the game than they are now.

The Altmer racial nerf was objectively worse for PvE players. It didn't close any DPS gap as Altmer were not ahead of Breton in solo parses with the old passive either. That is the problem here. ZOS made PvE more difficult (for both DPS and healers) so they could buff PvP. The old passive was useful in both modes. The new one is only useful in one of them.

And Alcast isn't some random min-maxrr. He's the game's biggest content creator.

I like Alcast but... so what? It basically doesn't matter. He might be a very popular ESO player like Deltia, Sypher, Fengrush and all the others but he is just one player of several millions. I don't see an issue here. He dislikes some of the changes? Okay, it's his valid opinion.

The Altmer "racial" nerf doesn't matter. The parses are fine, they're performing excellent to great, there is no need that they are buffed or made any better at this point. Even if the change of the Altmer racial is strange, it's hardly affecting their performance.

The problem that Alcast is highlighting and that you keep ignoring is that changes were made for the sole benefit of PvP and to the detriment of PvE. That is a fundamental problem with how the game is being balanced right now by Wheeler and needs to be addressed sooner than later.

Allowing them to get away with these types of changes is not healthy for the game long term.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

I think the majority can live with min-maxers being not 100% happy with the upcoming changes.

Even you must acknowledge that the Altmer parsing results are totally fine and the gaps between Breton, Khajiit, Altmer and Dunmer are nothing more than numbers on paper.

I think we all can admit that racials after the changes will be a lot more balanced and healthier for the game than they are now.

The Altmer racial nerf was objectively worse for PvE players. It didn't close any DPS gap as Altmer were not ahead of Breton in solo parses with the old passive either. That is the problem here. ZOS made PvE more difficult (for both DPS and healers) so they could buff PvP. The old passive was useful in both modes. The new one is only useful in one of them.

And Alcast isn't some random min-maxrr. He's the game's biggest content creator.

I like Alcast but... so what? It basically doesn't matter. He might be a very popular ESO player like Deltia, Sypher, Fengrush and all the others but he is just one player of several millions. I don't see an issue here. He dislikes some of the changes? Okay, it's his valid opinion.

The Altmer "racial" nerf doesn't matter. The parses are fine, they're performing excellent to great, there is no need that they are buffed or made any better at this point. Even if the change of the Altmer racial is strange, it's hardly affecting their performance.

The problem that Alcast is highlighting and that you keep ignoring is that changes were made for the sole benefit of PvP and to the detriment of PvE. That is a fundamental problem with how the game is being balanced right now by Wheeler and needs to be addressed sooner than later.

nsmurfer wrote: »

Also, where are them Altmer whiners again?????!!!!

polgarah wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

I think the majority can live with min-maxers being not 100% happy with the upcoming changes.

Even you must acknowledge that the Altmer parsing results are totally fine and the gaps between Breton, Khajiit, Altmer and Dunmer are nothing more than numbers on paper.

I think we all can admit that racials after the changes will be a lot more balanced and healthier for the game than they are now.

The Altmer racial nerf was objectively worse for PvE players. It didn't close any DPS gap as Altmer were not ahead of Breton in solo parses with the old passive either. That is the problem here. ZOS made PvE more difficult (for both DPS and healers) so they could buff PvP. The old passive was useful in both modes. The new one is only useful in one of them.

And Alcast isn't some random min-maxrr. He's the game's biggest content creator.

I like Alcast but... so what? It basically doesn't matter. He might be a very popular ESO player like Deltia, Sypher, Fengrush and all the others but he is just one player of several millions. I don't see an issue here. He dislikes some of the changes? Okay, it's his valid opinion.

The Altmer "racial" nerf doesn't matter. The parses are fine, they're performing excellent to great, there is no need that they are buffed or made any better at this point. Even if the change of the Altmer racial is strange, it's hardly affecting their performance.

Have u tested it for yourself? Try a few dummies now and tell me that parses are fine. Sustain is awful even with The Mage, more magicka is not enough. And yes, I know recovery will be increased with food but this nerf is just absurd. Altmers won't be the best in mostly every content and I don't really care I just want they can be competitive. NO sustain NO damage is not so hard to understand.
I have good parses right now in pts but isn't consistent, damage isn't the true issue here.

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Also, where are them Altmer whiners again?????!!!!

Exactly. I thought Altmers were rendered “unplayable” and “gutted”??

Console pleb here. Just reading the patch notes, I knew not much would change other than Cats being “Magic”.

templesus wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

Do you know using Lava foot is considered by almost the entirety of pve community as bloated parsing and cheating? Blue Food+group sustain is weaker than the shear amount of recovery lava foot gives.

Alcast, liko, pretty much all topend pve endgamers use Absorb resource enchants.

Lava foot is bloated when you don’t have orbs on a 6mil test, or if you’re testing on a 3mil(lol). If you’re doing the test solo, its perfectly acceptable to use Lava foot in order to replicate having orbs+gold food.

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m confused, why are you using absorb stamina backbar on certain races? That in itself makes redguard and wood elf look stronger then they really are, because in reality not a single race runs absorb stam on back bar. They ALL run Berserker. My solo stamplar 6mil tests I don’t drop below 30% stam.

It might be the front bar enchantment nerf that caused them to move absorb stamina to the back bar. It's still a decent trade, the glyph could be making 2300 dps, which would be around 4.5% of the DPS. The Redguard/Bosmer berserker glyph only affects 80% of the damage because of the huge proc set, so it only boosts overall DPS by around 7.5%. Orcs, Dunmer and Khajiit lose 3% of their DPS to pick up the same Regen as a Bosmer/Redguard. It's not a bad trade, but also explains whey they're dealing more DPS.

*Edit* Gold food could set them up with more Regen at less cost to DPS.


Mages don't have a huge proc set, so Breton looks pretty good with a Berserk glyph. And there are a load of magicka multipliers for a magblade, not so many Stamina multipliers for Stamblade.

You’re missing the point. Even with the enchant change, you still don’t run an absorb stamina enchant backbar. All enchants remains the same. That’s why I’m saying it’s skewed when you have some classes keeping Berserker and others running absorb stam, because in an actual trial setting all classes run Berserker.

These tests make redguard and woodelf look better then they actually are.

No, the situation here is very accurate. If you don’t want to replace jewel enchants with regen/cost red, then you have to put absorb stam on backbar to have viable sustain levels. Bosmer and Redguard don’t have to do this because even with moderate group support they can sustain without abs stam on backbar

No, you don’t. You can sustain perfectly fine with orbs and an absorb stam enchant on a precise/sharpened weapon. I’ve tested it myself. The only sustain I got was from my food.

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

So you're saying orbs and shards can add close to 1000 free stamina regen, since you're testing with a lavafoot soup Khajiit with a little base regen. Just trying to understand your point, I don't play healers so I don't know how many orbs per second they are capable of dishing out while healing.

1000? No, Orbs + Gold food is > Stam sustain then Lava foot without orbs. Using lava foot just allows you to do a 6mil dummy parse solo.

Seriously, anybody who knows anything about endgame parses knows this stuff.

templesus wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

Do you know using Lava foot is considered by almost the entirety of pve community as bloated parsing and cheating? Blue Food+group sustain is weaker than the shear amount of recovery lava foot gives.

Alcast, liko, pretty much all topend pve endgamers use Absorb resource enchants.

Lava foot is bloated when you don’t have orbs on a 6mil test, or if you’re testing on a 3mil(lol). If you’re doing the test solo, its perfectly acceptable to use Lava foot in order to replicate having orbs+gold food.

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m confused, why are you using absorb stamina backbar on certain races? That in itself makes redguard and wood elf look stronger then they really are, because in reality not a single race runs absorb stam on back bar. They ALL run Berserker. My solo stamplar 6mil tests I don’t drop below 30% stam.

It might be the front bar enchantment nerf that caused them to move absorb stamina to the back bar. It's still a decent trade, the glyph could be making 2300 dps, which would be around 4.5% of the DPS. The Redguard/Bosmer berserker glyph only affects 80% of the damage because of the huge proc set, so it only boosts overall DPS by around 7.5%. Orcs, Dunmer and Khajiit lose 3% of their DPS to pick up the same Regen as a Bosmer/Redguard. It's not a bad trade, but also explains whey they're dealing more DPS.

*Edit* Gold food could set them up with more Regen at less cost to DPS.


Mages don't have a huge proc set, so Breton looks pretty good with a Berserk glyph. And there are a load of magicka multipliers for a magblade, not so many Stamina multipliers for Stamblade.

You’re missing the point. Even with the enchant change, you still don’t run an absorb stamina enchant backbar. All enchants remains the same. That’s why I’m saying it’s skewed when you have some classes keeping Berserker and others running absorb stam, because in an actual trial setting all classes run Berserker.

These tests make redguard and woodelf look better then they actually are.

No, the situation here is very accurate. If you don’t want to replace jewel enchants with regen/cost red, then you have to put absorb stam on backbar to have viable sustain levels. Bosmer and Redguard don’t have to do this because even with moderate group support they can sustain without abs stam on backbar

No, you don’t. You can sustain perfectly fine with orbs and an absorb stam enchant on a precise/sharpened weapon. I’ve tested it myself. The only sustain I got was from my food.

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

So you're saying orbs and shards can add close to 1000 free stamina regen, since you're testing with a lavafoot soup Khajiit with a little base regen. Just trying to understand your point, I don't play healers so I don't know how many orbs per second they are capable of dishing out while healing.

1000? No, Orbs + Gold food is > Stam sustain then Lava foot without orbs. Using lava foot just allows you to do a 6mil dummy parse solo.

Seriously, anybody who knows anything about endgame parses knows this stuff.

Orbs and blue food < lava foot with no orbs

Actually its not, and if it is it’s SLIGHTLY higher at most. It all comes down to modifiers, here’s the math for you: Lava foot is 457 stamina regen, after modifiers we’ll give it an extra 150 and say it’s roughly 600. However throughout the length of a 20 second span in fights it’s safe to say you’ll be blocking at some point or another (final boss of vMol, final boss of vHof just for examples) so this negates stamina regen in that instance.

Orbs, on the other hand, grant 5500 stamina every 20 seconds (4K from Orb and 1500 from Undaunted command) and because stam regen ticks every 2 seconds the math is (5500/20)*2 = 550 effective stamina regen (is not effected by block) vs Lava foot’s 600, so under perfect conditions for stamina regen(no need to block at all) then lava foot is greater sustain, however in fights where you block and assuming you’re actually getting orbs every 20 seconds, blue food+orbs is better sustain.

But how close they are just comes to show how it’s completely acceptable to use Lava foot on a 6mil when solo.

Furthermore, khajiit and orc both get health + CP stat changes allow you to run gold food instead. No need to even run bistat.

templesus wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

@templesus 200 regen is almost the Bosmer regen there. for this patch with scaling, blue food>everything else. An orc dropping an infused weapon enchant for infused stam regen is the same as a Bosmer+1k Hp. stat wise, every race is adding up to be overall the same, except for orc.
also if anything blue food+absorb stam is a very small comrpmise than gold food+berserker

But you don’t need the sustain from an infused absorb stam on back bar...that’s the whole premise of my point. Gold food alone on Orc/Khajiit is more then enough sustain. So you have to compare wood elf with Berserker enchant and bistat food vs Orc with Berserker enchant and gold food. DPS wise, the Orc is going to stomp.

templesus wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

@templesus 200 regen is almost the Bosmer regen there. for this patch with scaling, blue food>everything else. An orc dropping an infused weapon enchant for infused stam regen is the same as a Bosmer+1k Hp. stat wise, every race is adding up to be overall the same, except for orc.
also if anything blue food+absorb stam is a very small comrpmise than gold food+berserker

But you don’t need the sustain from an infused absorb stam on back bar...that’s the whole premise of my point. Gold food alone on Orc/Khajiit is more then enough sustain. So you have to compare wood elf with Berserker enchant and bistat food vs Orc with Berserker enchant and gold food. DPS wise, the Orc is going to stomp.

nsmurfer wrote: »

Also, where are them Altmer whiners again?????!!!!