Stamina/Magicka Raid Warhorn DPS+Solo Sustain DPS Tests+Graphs with CP Stat Boost Correction (4.3.2)

MLGProPlayer

polgarah wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

polgarah wrote: »

Thank you for your testing, you are doing a amazing job with this but I think your tests don't reflect the reality in this case. It's likely altmers become the highest dps in a perfect situation but the truth is that those perfect situations are far for most players. I've done my own tests in pts with a magplar and the sustain is just simply awful even with an absorb enchant. I ran vFV a few days ago without healer and the lack of sustain was a pain.

So, if you are an altmer is going to be quite harder run dungeons with 3dps, farm world bosses or just simply do some contest with pugs compared to other races

No sustain no damage.

Even in those tests, Altmer only slightly pulls ahead in the Shadow mundus raid test.

Breton is better in non-Shadow raid parses and non-raid parses.

I don't care if altmers aren't "the bis race" but I'd like they still are competitive in every content with every class and, right now, I can't see that.

Oh I agree. I'm saying they aren't even the clear-cut BiS right now for damage. If ZOS reverted the nerf, they wouldn't gain anything in those raid parses while becoming slightly more enjoyable to play in non-raid content.

susmitds

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Also, why is Breton > Altmer, but Shadow Altmer > Shadow Breton?

Shouldn't these be the same as neither race benefits more or less from Shadow Mundus?

The only explanation I can come up with is random variation, meaning that their DPS is actually the same in a raid parse.

@MLGProPlayer
Random variations could have played it's part. WIll do tests with more samples once PTS is fixed. Mathematically though, it is not surprising. I don't have the exact formula for crit damage and afaik, it is not exactly linear but a very simplified statement of that will be:
Critical Damage scales great with raw damage till one point, after that critical hit chance takes over for better damage scaling.
In this case, Altmer and Breton are very close to that mark while Khajiit is a bit tilted towards the critical chance part.
Altmer with its racial spell damage is still having more scaling from raw damage while Breton's Berserker enchant is putting slightly in the better crit-scaling category, decreasing the overall gain for Breton. The kicker here, becomes that Absorb Magicka itself crits harder in case of Altmer after this calculation, boosting Altmer's gain further.

This also shows in the stamina side with Orc and Bosmer losing DPS with Shadow.

MLGProPlayer

susmitds wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Also, why is Breton > Altmer, but Shadow Altmer > Shadow Breton?

Shouldn't these be the same as neither race benefits more or less from Shadow Mundus?

The only explanation I can come up with is random variation, meaning that their DPS is actually the same in a raid parse.

@MLGProPlayer
Random variations could have played it's part. WIll do tests with more samples once PTS is fixed. Mathematically though, it is not surprising. I don't have the exact formula for crit damage and afaik, it is not exactly linear but a very simplified statement of that will be:
Critical Damage scales great raw damage till one point, then critical hit chance takes over for better damage scaling.
In this case, Altmer and Breton are very close to that mark while Khajiit is a bit tilted towards the critical chance part.
Altmer with its racial spell damage is still having more scaling from raw damage while Breton's Berserker enchant is putting slightly in the better crit-scaling category, decreasing the overall gain for Breton. The kicker here, becomes that Absorb Magicka itself crits harder in case of Altmer after this calculation, boosting Altmer's gain further.

This also shows in the stamina side with Orc and Bosmer losing DPS with Shadow.

Oh wow, so there might be an actual mathematical reason for the difference. Cool insight.

Princess_Ciri

This game doesn't revolve entirely around dps, but I'm sure ZOS will happily ignore the stupid Altmer passive just because of this.

Nevermind Altmer healers who would appreciate a bit more sustain still stamina and spell damage are practically useless for us

jcasini222ub17_ESO

@Vapirko you are so right from the PvP playstyle of many orcs.

I would say there is a sharp divide in the orc community those who focus PvP would prefer to keep health while those that PvE would prefer to keep Stam. That is completely misunderstood by many forum posters who I imagine haven't spent years in cyro on their same orc.

I do hope the developers keep this in mind going forward. It will be mighty disappointing to go from what we have now to full glass cannon. (PvP perspective)

@susmitds thanks for the parses and thanks to your guild. I would imagine players in the bulk of the population (pve) (outside the 1% that leaderboard) will not even "feel" these changes much once those goes live. I do believe their will be noticeable differences in both CP and no-CP settings.

I'm actually impressed how close ZoS got everything.

Faulgor

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

This game doesn't revolve entirely around dps, but I'm sure ZOS will happily ignore the stupid Altmer passive just because of this.

Nevermind Altmer healers who would appreciate a bit more sustain still stamina and spell damage are practically useless for us

Right? On live, Altmer have the best Magicka Recovery. With these changes, we're down to zero.

It seems pretty clear they don't want to give races with weapon/spell power also sustain, but I suspect this only plays a role for DPS.

Ideally, I'd like to see a compromise that changes Spellcharge to return Magicka (or the highest resource) when using a healing ability with a ~6second cooldown. That would keep Altmer healers viable and not impact DPS sustain.

nsmurfer

Faulgor wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

This game doesn't revolve entirely around dps, but I'm sure ZOS will happily ignore the stupid Altmer passive just because of this.

Nevermind Altmer healers who would appreciate a bit more sustain still stamina and spell damage are practically useless for us

Right? On live, Altmer have the best Magicka Recovery. With these changes, we're down to zero.

It seems pretty clear they don't want to give races with weapon/spell power also sustain, but I suspect this only plays a role for DPS.

Ideally, I'd like to see a compromise that changes Spellcharge to return Magicka (or the highest resource) when using a healing ability with a ~6second cooldown. That would keep Altmer healers viable and not impact DPS sustain.

Entropy, Absorb Health enchant, Swallow Soul, Funnel Health, etc, Puncuring Strikes, half Mag DK abilities all do both Healing and dPS. Also spell damage also benefits heals in the same way as DPS, so you can drop a bit of spell damage via enchants and replace with mag recovery enchants to get a balance of both.

Princess_Ciri

Faulgor wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

This game doesn't revolve entirely around dps, but I'm sure ZOS will happily ignore the stupid Altmer passive just because of this.

Nevermind Altmer healers who would appreciate a bit more sustain still stamina and spell damage are practically useless for us

Right? On live, Altmer have the best Magicka Recovery. With these changes, we're down to zero.

It seems pretty clear they don't want to give races with weapon/spell power also sustain, but I suspect this only plays a role for DPS.

Ideally, I'd like to see a compromise that changes Spellcharge to return Magicka (or the highest resource) when using a healing ability with a ~6second cooldown. That would keep Altmer healers viable and not impact DPS sustain.

Honestly the previous passive was balanced for dps AND healers. Now it's like ZOS said 'well we only care about dps and anyone who plays Altmer healer can just race change to Breton lolz'

It's not really fair that Altmer healers get the short end of the stick, and imo it makes no more sense lorewise that Bretons would make better healers than Altmers, even though they will easily beat Altmers next patch.

Princess_Ciri

nsmurfer wrote: »

Also spell damage also benefits heals in the same way as DPS, so you can drop a bit of spell damage via enchants and replace with mag recovery enchants to get a balance of both.

The healer meta already is to run 3x magicka recovery glyphs so 'dropping a spell damage glyph' isn't really helpful.

I heal with around 1355 (unbuffed) spell damage on the current server with my healer, and I've never felt it was too low. Now I'm going to have more unnecessary spell damage and less recovery, which is the opposite of what healers need.

MLGProPlayer

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

This game doesn't revolve entirely around dps, but I'm sure ZOS will happily ignore the stupid Altmer passive just because of this.

Nevermind Altmer healers who would appreciate a bit more sustain still stamina and spell damage are practically useless for us

Altmer is only top DPS with the shadow mundus, and even then, only by 0.1-0.3%. With any other mundus (for example, if these shadow buffs don't make it to live) or in non-raid content, they are no longer the top DPS. All this data shows is that the nerfs were 100% misplaced as Altmer were never even close to overperforming.

Also, you don't have to worry about ZOS seeing this data and making a decision based off of it. ZOS has a policy to ignore all player feedback and testing.

nsmurfer

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

for example, if these shadow buffs don't make it to live)

I am pretty sure Shadow will go live, or rip khajiit stamdps and breton OP.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Also, you don't have to worry about ZOS seeing this data and making a decision based off of it. ZOS has a policy to ignore all player feedback and testing.

I wouldn't be too sure.
@susmitds made a post https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456591/can-we-finally-buff-shadow-slightly-to-bring-it-in-line-with-the-otherwise-balanced-mundus-stones testing mundus and asking for Shadow buff on Jan 1st. ZOS delivers with a bigger damage buff than he asked for on 4th Feb and specifically noted in the patch notes that critical healing was not present, as if as a direct answer to what he asked for in the first place.

Over last two years, there has been many threads mostly from PvP gankers, asking for a shadow buff, usually with no proper reasoning and nothing changed postively for shadow in 2 whole years. Then OP comes with tested evidence and ZOs grants it in less than a week. Coincidence? i think not........

Vapirko

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vapirko you are so right from the PvP playstyle of many orcs.

I would say there is a sharp divide in the orc community those who focus PvP would prefer to keep health while those that PvE would prefer to keep Stam. That is completely misunderstood by many forum posters who I imagine haven't spent years in cyro on their same orc.

I do hope the developers keep this in mind going forward. It will be mighty disappointing to go from what we have now to full glass cannon. (PvP perspective)

@susmitds thanks for the parses and thanks to your guild. I would imagine players in the bulk of the population (pve) (outside the 1% that leaderboard) will not even "feel" these changes much once those goes live. I do believe their will be noticeable differences in both CP and no-CP settings.

I'm actually impressed how close ZoS got everything.

For me I see this as a big test for ZOS. The combat team is under new leadership, this is a hugely delicate turning point in the game. So far I think they’ve handled it quite well, they’ve been taking PvP into account as well as PvE with the passive changes, and how they finish it up would seem like a good indication of the game going forward. Are they going to cave and make orcs a wpn damage version of redguards or will they let orcs keep their low sustain, high damage brawler racial flavor? If they want to take max Stam away I think they’d need to return the healing recieved instead of the useless health return or something.

nsmurfer

templesus wrote: »

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

Do you know using Lava foot is considered by almost the entirety of pve community as bloated parsing and cheating? Blue Food+group sustain is weaker than the shear amount of recovery lava foot gives.

Alcast, liko, pretty much all topend pve endgamers use Absorb resource enchants.

JobooAGS

nsmurfer wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

Do you know using Lava foot is considered by almost the entirety of pve community as bloated parsing and cheating? Blue Food+group sustain is weaker than the shear amount of recovery lava foot gives.

Alcast, liko, pretty much all topend pve endgamers use Absorb resource enchants.

Yup, on a warden with 7 med armor 75 in mooncalf, a potion up, and NOT being a vampire is about 270 better regen on lavafoot than blue food with orbs on cooldown assuming a max stam of about 32.5k.
This figure is worse on a nb, on a %regen race on live (this is nonexistant next patch), and when you add vampire.

On a stamplar/stamdk, it would be about 215 regen over orbs.

Regen = every 2 seconds btw

Olupajmibanan

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Bladerunner1

templesus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m confused, why are you using absorb stamina backbar on certain races? That in itself makes redguard and wood elf look stronger then they really are, because in reality not a single race runs absorb stam on back bar. They ALL run Berserker. My solo stamplar 6mil tests I don’t drop below 30% stam.

It might be the front bar enchantment nerf that caused them to move absorb stamina to the back bar. It's still a decent trade, the glyph could be making 2300 dps, which would be around 4.5% of the DPS. The Redguard/Bosmer berserker glyph only affects 80% of the damage because of the huge proc set, so it only boosts overall DPS by around 7.5%. Orcs, Dunmer and Khajiit lose 3% of their DPS to pick up the same Regen as a Bosmer/Redguard. It's not a bad trade, but also explains whey they're dealing more DPS.

*Edit* Gold food could set them up with more Regen at less cost to DPS.


Mages don't have a huge proc set, so Breton looks pretty good with a Berserk glyph. And there are a load of magicka multipliers for a magblade, not so many Stamina multipliers for Stamblade.

You’re missing the point. Even with the enchant change, you still don’t run an absorb stamina enchant backbar. All enchants remains the same. That’s why I’m saying it’s skewed when you have some classes keeping Berserker and others running absorb stam, because in an actual trial setting all classes run Berserker.

These tests make redguard and woodelf look better then they actually are.

No, the situation here is very accurate. If you don’t want to replace jewel enchants with regen/cost red, then you have to put absorb stam on backbar to have viable sustain levels. Bosmer and Redguard don’t have to do this because even with moderate group support they can sustain without abs stam on backbar

No, you don’t. You can sustain perfectly fine with orbs and an absorb stam enchant on a precise/sharpened weapon. I’ve tested it myself. The only sustain I got was from my food.

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

So you're saying orbs and shards can add close to 1000 free stamina regen, since you're testing with a lavafoot soup Khajiit with a little base regen. Just trying to understand your point, I don't play healers so I don't know how many orbs per second they are capable of dishing out while healing.

nsmurfer

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m confused, why are you using absorb stamina backbar on certain races? That in itself makes redguard and wood elf look stronger then they really are, because in reality not a single race runs absorb stam on back bar. They ALL run Berserker. My solo stamplar 6mil tests I don’t drop below 30% stam.

It might be the front bar enchantment nerf that caused them to move absorb stamina to the back bar. It's still a decent trade, the glyph could be making 2300 dps, which would be around 4.5% of the DPS. The Redguard/Bosmer berserker glyph only affects 80% of the damage because of the huge proc set, so it only boosts overall DPS by around 7.5%. Orcs, Dunmer and Khajiit lose 3% of their DPS to pick up the same Regen as a Bosmer/Redguard. It's not a bad trade, but also explains whey they're dealing more DPS.

*Edit* Gold food could set them up with more Regen at less cost to DPS.


Mages don't have a huge proc set, so Breton looks pretty good with a Berserk glyph. And there are a load of magicka multipliers for a magblade, not so many Stamina multipliers for Stamblade.

You’re missing the point. Even with the enchant change, you still don’t run an absorb stamina enchant backbar. All enchants remains the same. That’s why I’m saying it’s skewed when you have some classes keeping Berserker and others running absorb stam, because in an actual trial setting all classes run Berserker.

These tests make redguard and woodelf look better then they actually are.

No, the situation here is very accurate. If you don’t want to replace jewel enchants with regen/cost red, then you have to put absorb stam on backbar to have viable sustain levels. Bosmer and Redguard don’t have to do this because even with moderate group support they can sustain without abs stam on backbar

No, you don’t. You can sustain perfectly fine with orbs and an absorb stam enchant on a precise/sharpened weapon. I’ve tested it myself. The only sustain I got was from my food.

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

So you're saying orbs and shards can add close to 1000 free stamina regen, since you're testing with a lavafoot soup Khajiit with a little base regen. Just trying to understand your point, I don't play healers so I don't know how many orbs per second they are capable of dishing out while healing.

Orb synergy has a CD of 20 secs. You can only use one sustain synergy every 20 sec and that effects rotations

Masel

nsmurfer wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

for example, if these shadow buffs don't make it to live)

I am pretty sure Shadow will go live, or rip khajiit stamdps and breton OP.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Also, you don't have to worry about ZOS seeing this data and making a decision based off of it. ZOS has a policy to ignore all player feedback and testing.

I wouldn't be too sure.
@susmitds made a post https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456591/can-we-finally-buff-shadow-slightly-to-bring-it-in-line-with-the-otherwise-balanced-mundus-stones testing mundus and asking for Shadow buff on Jan 1st. ZOS delivers with a bigger damage buff than he asked for on 4th Feb and specifically noted in the patch notes that critical healing was not present, as if as a direct answer to what he asked for in the first place.

Over last two years, there has been many threads mostly from PvP gankers, asking for a shadow buff, usually with no proper reasoning and nothing changed postively for shadow in 2 whole years. Then OP comes with tested evidence and ZOs grants it in less than a week. Coincidence? i think not........

We talked to ZoS about shadow pre pts. Especially lady and shadow were considered too weak, and one of them got a buff

technohic

*looks at all these PvE numbers and racial complaining*

"Stop nerfing PvP for PvE racial passives!" QQ

MLGProPlayer

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

Bladerunner1

nsmurfer wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m confused, why are you using absorb stamina backbar on certain races? That in itself makes redguard and wood elf look stronger then they really are, because in reality not a single race runs absorb stam on back bar. They ALL run Berserker. My solo stamplar 6mil tests I don’t drop below 30% stam.

It might be the front bar enchantment nerf that caused them to move absorb stamina to the back bar. It's still a decent trade, the glyph could be making 2300 dps, which would be around 4.5% of the DPS. The Redguard/Bosmer berserker glyph only affects 80% of the damage because of the huge proc set, so it only boosts overall DPS by around 7.5%. Orcs, Dunmer and Khajiit lose 3% of their DPS to pick up the same Regen as a Bosmer/Redguard. It's not a bad trade, but also explains whey they're dealing more DPS.

*Edit* Gold food could set them up with more Regen at less cost to DPS.


Mages don't have a huge proc set, so Breton looks pretty good with a Berserk glyph. And there are a load of magicka multipliers for a magblade, not so many Stamina multipliers for Stamblade.

You’re missing the point. Even with the enchant change, you still don’t run an absorb stamina enchant backbar. All enchants remains the same. That’s why I’m saying it’s skewed when you have some classes keeping Berserker and others running absorb stam, because in an actual trial setting all classes run Berserker.

These tests make redguard and woodelf look better then they actually are.

No, the situation here is very accurate. If you don’t want to replace jewel enchants with regen/cost red, then you have to put absorb stam on backbar to have viable sustain levels. Bosmer and Redguard don’t have to do this because even with moderate group support they can sustain without abs stam on backbar

No, you don’t. You can sustain perfectly fine with orbs and an absorb stam enchant on a precise/sharpened weapon. I’ve tested it myself. The only sustain I got was from my food.

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

So you're saying orbs and shards can add close to 1000 free stamina regen, since you're testing with a lavafoot soup Khajiit with a little base regen. Just trying to understand your point, I don't play healers so I don't know how many orbs per second they are capable of dishing out while healing.

Orb synergy has a CD of 20 secs. You can only use one sustain synergy every 20 sec and that effects rotations

20 second cool down I understand, but for 10-11 people who need orbs that's an orb every two seconds, right? Just trying to understand it and thanks.

JobooAGS

nsmurfer wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m confused, why are you using absorb stamina backbar on certain races? That in itself makes redguard and wood elf look stronger then they really are, because in reality not a single race runs absorb stam on back bar. They ALL run Berserker. My solo stamplar 6mil tests I don’t drop below 30% stam.

It might be the front bar enchantment nerf that caused them to move absorb stamina to the back bar. It's still a decent trade, the glyph could be making 2300 dps, which would be around 4.5% of the DPS. The Redguard/Bosmer berserker glyph only affects 80% of the damage because of the huge proc set, so it only boosts overall DPS by around 7.5%. Orcs, Dunmer and Khajiit lose 3% of their DPS to pick up the same Regen as a Bosmer/Redguard. It's not a bad trade, but also explains whey they're dealing more DPS.

*Edit* Gold food could set them up with more Regen at less cost to DPS.


Mages don't have a huge proc set, so Breton looks pretty good with a Berserk glyph. And there are a load of magicka multipliers for a magblade, not so many Stamina multipliers for Stamblade.

You’re missing the point. Even with the enchant change, you still don’t run an absorb stamina enchant backbar. All enchants remains the same. That’s why I’m saying it’s skewed when you have some classes keeping Berserker and others running absorb stam, because in an actual trial setting all classes run Berserker.

These tests make redguard and woodelf look better then they actually are.

No, the situation here is very accurate. If you don’t want to replace jewel enchants with regen/cost red, then you have to put absorb stam on backbar to have viable sustain levels. Bosmer and Redguard don’t have to do this because even with moderate group support they can sustain without abs stam on backbar

No, you don’t. You can sustain perfectly fine with orbs and an absorb stam enchant on a precise/sharpened weapon. I’ve tested it myself. The only sustain I got was from my food.

Like I said, using lava foot food(to replicate having orbs), on every single one of my dozens of 6mil SOLO tests (no orbs) my stamplar didn’t dip below 30% one time. Of course I’m also a khajiit, but i front barred poisons and back barred weapon damage enchant, so i had no absorb stam whatsoever, which you could easily throw on your off hand weapon. NO class needs an absorb stam enchant REGARDLESS of the race.

So you're saying orbs and shards can add close to 1000 free stamina regen, since you're testing with a lavafoot soup Khajiit with a little base regen. Just trying to understand your point, I don't play healers so I don't know how many orbs per second they are capable of dishing out while healing.

Orb synergy has a CD of 20 secs. You can only use one sustain synergy every 20 sec and that effects rotations

Even more evidence against using lava foot to simulate orbs

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

I think the majority can live with min-maxers being not 100% happy with the upcoming changes.

Even you must acknowledge that the Altmer parsing results are totally fine and the gaps between Breton, Khajiit, Altmer and Dunmer are nothing more than numbers on paper.

I think we all can admit that racials after the changes will be a lot more balanced and healthier for the game than they are now.

MLGProPlayer

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

I think the majority can live with min-maxers being not 100% happy with the upcoming changes.

Even you must acknowledge that the Altmer parsing results are totally fine and the gaps between Breton, Khajiit, Altmer and Dunmer are nothing more than numbers on paper.

I think we all can admit that racials after the changes will be a lot more balanced and healthier for the game than they are now.

The Altmer racial nerf was objectively worse for PvE players. It didn't close any DPS gap as Altmer were not ahead of Breton in solo parses with the old passive either. That is the problem here. ZOS made PvE more difficult (for both DPS and healers) so they could buff PvP. The old passive was useful in both modes. The new one is only useful in one of them.

And Alcast isn't some random min-maxer. He's the game's biggest content creator and on of its most accomplished players.

Princess_Ciri

Using green food to sustain? Really?

These silly graphs might fool people who don't understand how cheesy that is, but green food doesn't simulate the recovery you'd have in trials.

Nice try though.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that some of these balance changes are busted. But at least the forum casuals will still think Altmer is top dps, since apparently they all think Altmer is currently top dps which isn't true either. It's bad enough that ZOS don't understand their own game but 90% of the players don't either zzzzz

Ajax_22

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Using green food to sustain? Really?

These silly graphs might fool people who don't understand how cheesy that is, but green food doesn't simulate the recovery you'd have in trials.

Nice try though.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that some of these balance changes are busted. But at least the forum casuals will still think Altmer is top dps, since apparently they all think Altmer is currently top dps which isn't true either. It's bad enough that ZOS don't understand their own game but 90% of the players don't either zzzzz

They used green max stat food to simulate the increase from when racial max stats scale properly. They also had orb support during certain parces. Try again.

Seraphayel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

I think the majority can live with min-maxers being not 100% happy with the upcoming changes.

Even you must acknowledge that the Altmer parsing results are totally fine and the gaps between Breton, Khajiit, Altmer and Dunmer are nothing more than numbers on paper.

I think we all can admit that racials after the changes will be a lot more balanced and healthier for the game than they are now.

The Altmer racial nerf was objectively worse for PvE players. It didn't close any DPS gap as Altmer were not ahead of Breton in solo parses with the old passive either. That is the problem here. ZOS made PvE more difficult (for both DPS and healers) so they could buff PvP. The old passive was useful in both modes. The new one is only useful in one of them.

And Alcast isn't some random min-maxrr. He's the game's biggest content creator.

I like Alcast but... so what? It basically doesn't matter. He might be a very popular ESO player like Deltia, Sypher, Fengrush and all the others but he is just one player of several millions. I don't see an issue here. He dislikes some of the changes? Okay, it's his valid opinion.

The Altmer "racial" nerf doesn't matter. The parses are fine, they're performing excellent to great, there is no need that they are buffed or made any better at this point. Even if the change of the Altmer racial is strange, it's hardly affecting their performance.

Seraphayel

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Using green food to sustain? Really?

These silly graphs might fool people who don't understand how cheesy that is, but green food doesn't simulate the recovery you'd have in trials.

Nice try though.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that some of these balance changes are busted. But at least the forum casuals will still think Altmer is top dps, since apparently they all think Altmer is currently top dps which isn't true either. It's bad enough that ZOS don't understand their own game but 90% of the players don't either zzzzz

The green food is simulating the changes to CP and not sustain. Good that you've read the first page, haven't you?

nsmurfer

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Using green food to sustain? Really?

These silly graphs might fool people who don't understand how cheesy that is, but green food doesn't simulate the recovery you'd have in trials.

Nice try though.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that some of these balance changes are busted. But at least the forum casuals will still think Altmer is top dps, since apparently they all think Altmer is currently top dps which isn't true either. It's bad enough that ZOS don't understand their own game but 90% of the players don't either zzzzz

@Princess_Ciri




Can't see where this helps sustain and was used to simulate the CP scaling effects.
Cheesy much? I dunno. maybe you are confusing with the Templar tester, who uses Lava Foot (Max Stam+Stam Recovery) which is indeed busted.

MLGProPlayer

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I am pretty sure that class reps are dissatisfied with Spell Recharge change as well, but my guess is that they do not have any word in this since they are class reps and not race reps.

Alcast is one of the one's who's not happy. These changes were absolutely made with PvP in mind only.

https://youtu.be/u1iXKjHY5u0

I think the majority can live with min-maxers being not 100% happy with the upcoming changes.

Even you must acknowledge that the Altmer parsing results are totally fine and the gaps between Breton, Khajiit, Altmer and Dunmer are nothing more than numbers on paper.

I think we all can admit that racials after the changes will be a lot more balanced and healthier for the game than they are now.

The Altmer racial nerf was objectively worse for PvE players. It didn't close any DPS gap as Altmer were not ahead of Breton in solo parses with the old passive either. That is the problem here. ZOS made PvE more difficult (for both DPS and healers) so they could buff PvP. The old passive was useful in both modes. The new one is only useful in one of them.

And Alcast isn't some random min-maxrr. He's the game's biggest content creator.

I like Alcast but... so what? It basically doesn't matter. He might be a very popular ESO player like Deltia, Sypher, Fengrush and all the others but he is just one player of several millions. I don't see an issue here. He dislikes some of the changes? Okay, it's his valid opinion.

The Altmer "racial" nerf doesn't matter. The parses are fine, they're performing excellent to great, there is no need that they are buffed or made any better at this point. Even if the change of the Altmer racial is strange, it's hardly affecting their performance.

The problem that Alcast is highlighting and that you keep ignoring is that changes were made for the sole benefit of PvP and to the detriment of PvE. That is a fundamental problem with how the game is being balanced right now by Wheeler and needs to be addressed sooner than later.

Allowing them to get away with these types of changes is not healthy for the game long term.