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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
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NevzuavyerSoul ShrivenAn additional sustain bonus would also help when it comes to being a Altmer Healer. Right now we are just gutted from our 9% magicka recovery. Gap is just to big in comparison to Breton.7 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »
Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.
The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.
I have to admit I am also slightly worried about PvP, b/c the magicka consumption tends to be higher there. But Bretons 3% cost reduction translates into roughly 600 to 700 Magicka Regen. Add to that the 100 Magicka Regen from the other passive and you will have 700 to 800 Magicka Regen. -> Bretons got about 5.5 Set Bonuses worth of racial passives in magicka regen & equivalents alone.
Altmers on the other hand got 258 Spell Damage and roughly 200 Stam Regen. -> Altmers got about 3.5 Set Bonuses.
The 2000 Max Magicka doesn't matter because both have races have it.
The 5% damage reduction is pretty much a templar-only thing. And the 2.3k to 4.6k spell resi pretty much beats it in almost every scenario. The difference in these 2 passives will never show on any parses.
So Bretons are 2 Set Bonuses ahead of Altmers - even more if you include those defensive passives that don't show in parses!
That's the problem. Even with the old passive, Breton still had a better kit. These Altmer nerfs have to be one of the most dumbfounding nerfs I've ever seen in a video game.
It's not a dumb nerf. It's a very sophisticated nerf. Some earlier statistics told that Altmer is the most played race. ZoS was feared because 4.3.0 Altmer was worse than Breton or Khajit, but not bad enough to force people to race change (thus spend money). Hence we have 4.3.2 Altmer.
Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 8, 2019 1:59PM6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nevzuavyer wrote: »An additional sustain bonus would also help when it comes to being a Altmer Healer. Right now we are just gutted from our 9% magicka recovery. Gap is just to big in comparison to Breton.
This as well. Altmer was the second most popular healer race for a while (third once Argonian became BiS). ZOS basically just told all the Altmer healers to *** off.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 1:59PM5 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »
Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.
The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.
I have to admit I am also slightly worried about PvP, b/c the magicka consumption tends to be higher there. But Bretons 3% cost reduction translates into roughly 600 to 700 Magicka Regen. Add to that the 100 Magicka Regen from the other passive and you will have 700 to 800 Magicka Regen. -> Bretons got about 5.5 Set Bonuses worth of racial passives in magicka regen & equivalents alone.
Altmers on the other hand got 258 Spell Damage and roughly 200 Stam Regen. -> Altmers got about 3.5 Set Bonuses.
The 2000 Max Magicka doesn't matter because both have races have it.
The 5% damage reduction is pretty much a templar-only thing. And the 2.3k to 4.6k spell resi pretty much beats it in almost every scenario. The difference in these 2 passives will never show on any parses.
So Bretons are 2 Set Bonuses ahead of Altmers - even more if you include those defensive passives that don't show in parses!
That's the problem. Even with the old passive, Breton still had a better kit. These Altmer nerfs have to be one of the most dumbfounding nerfs I've ever seen in a video game.
you have clearly never played a Blizzard game.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade3 -
Eareindur✭✭I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.Edited by Eareindur on February 8, 2019 4:58PM3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.
Breton was going to be the best healer regardless. The old passive would have made Altmer just barely acceptable in the role (the same as they are now on live).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 5:02PM0 -
Eareindur✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.
Breton was going to be the best healer regardless. The old passive would have made Altmer just barely acceptable in the role (the same as they are now on live).
I think they would be better than before in certain clases (Templar and Warden), but it's true they are viable now because of bonus to Magicka Recovery, exactly the most disputable magic ability to attribute to Altmer.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A moment of silence for all the genius mathematicians who were absolutely sure that altmers were useless.
11 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.
Breton was going to be the best healer regardless. The old passive would have made Altmer just barely acceptable in the role (the same as they are now on live).
I think they would be better than before in certain clases (Templar and Warden), but it's true they are viable now because of bonus to Magicka Recovery, exactly the most disputable magic ability to attribute to Altmer.
Bretons have always been noteworthy for their DEFENSE to magic, not sustain and power. Compared to Altmer, of course.
In fact, if we go back to Oblivion, Willpower increased your magicka regen rate and got more potent the higher your MAX MAGICKA was. So, Altmer had the highest sustain. And Skyrim gave us Highborn to get absurd magicka regen once per day. Their racial greater power was... sustain.
Lore-wise, Altmer cast stronger spells and for longer. You cannot argue that.3 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭Well if this goes live I wont have any Altmer period.PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
A moment of silence for all the genius mathematicians at ZOS who thought giving completely loreberaking passive that is usable in PvP ONLY to a race that wasn't overperforming was necessary.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 8, 2019 8:35PM6 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
It was overperforming. Literally every single magicka dd on live is altmer. Why are you lying?1 -
Anzriel✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
It was overperforming. Literally every single magicka dd on live is altmer. Why are you lying?
That's an odd way of spelling dunmer.12 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »
Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.
The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.
I have to admit I am also slightly worried about PvP, b/c the magicka consumption tends to be higher there. But Bretons 3% cost reduction translates into roughly 600 to 700 Magicka Regen. Add to that the 100 Magicka Regen from the other passive and you will have 700 to 800 Magicka Regen. -> Bretons got about 5.5 Set Bonuses worth of racial passives in magicka regen & equivalents alone.
Altmers on the other hand got 258 Spell Damage and roughly 200 Stam Regen. -> Altmers got about 3.5 Set Bonuses.
The 2000 Max Magicka doesn't matter because both have races have it.
The 5% damage reduction is pretty much a templar-only thing. And the 2.3k to 4.6k spell resi pretty much beats it in almost every scenario. The difference in these 2 passives will never show on any parses.
So Bretons are 2 Set Bonuses ahead of Altmers - even more if you include those defensive passives that don't show in parses!
That's the problem. Even with the old passive, Breton still had a better kit. These Altmer nerfs have to be one of the most dumbfounding nerfs I've ever seen in a video game.
You haven't been playing video games very long if you think that's bad.0331
06022 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
It was overperforming. Literally every single magicka dd on live is altmer. Why are you lying?
What are you even talking about?
On Live, why would any DPS except maybe a Lightning staff magsorc choose Altmer over Dunmer?
Edited by LiquidPony on February 8, 2019 9:38PM2 -
Eareindur✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.
Breton was going to be the best healer regardless. The old passive would have made Altmer just barely acceptable in the role (the same as they are now on live).
I think they would be better than before in certain clases (Templar and Warden), but it's true they are viable now because of bonus to Magicka Recovery, exactly the most disputable magic ability to attribute to Altmer.
Bretons have always been noteworthy for their DEFENSE to magic, not sustain and power. Compared to Altmer, of course.
In fact, if we go back to Oblivion, Willpower increased your magicka regen rate and got more potent the higher your MAX MAGICKA was. So, Altmer had the highest sustain. And Skyrim gave us Highborn to get absurd magicka regen once per day. Their racial greater power was... sustain.
Lore-wise, Altmer cast stronger spells and for longer. You cannot argue that.
Sure, Skyrim brought great changes: freed Altmer of their weaknesses to elements and gave them Highborn, an ability without precedents. But Dragonskin allowed Bretons to regenerate magicka too. In Oblivion, although magicka regeneration was a percentage of the total of magicka, as in Skyrim, and so they were associated, the attribute that directly governed it was Willpower (in which Bretons had an initial advantage). In Morrowind, yet more different, the attribute governing the magicka regeneration was Intelligence (both races were equals here) and Willpower determined the success of casting spells. Clearly, the system hasn't been stabilised throughout the games, but we have some really defined patterns in relation to racial characteristics.
So, in Oblivion Altmer had the highest sustain if Willpower was levelled. And here is why I don't think that what we could potentially achieve with any race should inform our evaluation of the lore, as many of the racial characteristics were initial bonuses that allowed almost complete freedom developing the character in later stages of the game and these characteristics aren't the only source of lore.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.
Breton was going to be the best healer regardless. The old passive would have made Altmer just barely acceptable in the role (the same as they are now on live).
I think they would be better than before in certain clases (Templar and Warden), but it's true they are viable now because of bonus to Magicka Recovery, exactly the most disputable magic ability to attribute to Altmer.
Bretons have always been noteworthy for their DEFENSE to magic, not sustain and power. Compared to Altmer, of course.
In fact, if we go back to Oblivion, Willpower increased your magicka regen rate and got more potent the higher your MAX MAGICKA was. So, Altmer had the highest sustain. And Skyrim gave us Highborn to get absurd magicka regen once per day. Their racial greater power was... sustain.
Lore-wise, Altmer cast stronger spells and for longer. You cannot argue that.
Sure, Skyrim brought great changes: freed Altmer of their weaknesses to elements and gave them Highborn, an ability without precedents. But Dragonskin allowed Bretons to regenerate magicka too. In Oblivion, although magicka regeneration was a percentage of the total of magicka, as in Skyrim, and so they were associated, the attribute that directly governed it was Willpower (in which Bretons had an initial advantage). In Morrowind, yet more different, the attribute governing the magicka regeneration was Intelligence (both races were equals here) and Willpower determined the success of casting spells. Clearly, the system hasn't been stabilised throughout the games, but we have some really defined patterns in relation to racial characteristics.
So, in Oblivion Altmer had the highest sustain if Willpower was levelled. And here is why I don't think that what we could potentially achieve with any race should inform our evaluation of the lore, as many of the racial characteristics were initial bonuses that allowed almost complete freedom developing the character in later stages of the game and these characteristics aren't the only source of lore.
Altmer weakness to elements was only a Morrowind and Oblivion thing. Skyrim didn't free High Elves, it restored the old status. Neither Arena nor Daggerfall mention elemental weakness. They do mention the Breton's resistance to magic, though. That resistance is mentioned again and again and again and again and again. THIS IS THE BRETON'S THING!!! Once and for all!
What you and ZOS are doing is trying to retcon given lore (and ESO has been criticized for that couple of times). You WANT Bretons to be the sustain race, but they. are. not.
Arena and Dagger mention Altmer are the most gifted mages and no other racials apply (other than Altmer resistance to stuns). Morrowind has no permanent regen mechanic, but we can say that thanks to Altmers' significantly increased mag pool, they'll last longer before OOM. Oblivion has regen mechanic, and Altmer maximize it. Skyrim literally makes regen the Altmers' super power.
All you have to argue is a greater power that is defensive first and sustain second. And note that Dragonskin isn't even REGEN. It's ABSORP, like Atronach and Harness Magicka. And you have a really slight Willpower starting stat that only represents a completely untrained individual and caps out at the same value. That's very thin, man.
I rest my case. It's honestly ridiculous that we are discussing THE. MOST. SPECIALIZED. MAGICKA. RACE at all. It just shows how incredibly ignorant Zenimax of this legendary franchise's history are.3 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.
Breton was going to be the best healer regardless. The old passive would have made Altmer just barely acceptable in the role (the same as they are now on live).
I think they would be better than before in certain clases (Templar and Warden), but it's true they are viable now because of bonus to Magicka Recovery, exactly the most disputable magic ability to attribute to Altmer.
Bretons have always been noteworthy for their DEFENSE to magic, not sustain and power. Compared to Altmer, of course.
In fact, if we go back to Oblivion, Willpower increased your magicka regen rate and got more potent the higher your MAX MAGICKA was. So, Altmer had the highest sustain. And Skyrim gave us Highborn to get absurd magicka regen once per day. Their racial greater power was... sustain.
Lore-wise, Altmer cast stronger spells and for longer. You cannot argue that.
Sure, Skyrim brought great changes: freed Altmer of their weaknesses to elements and gave them Highborn, an ability without precedents. But Dragonskin allowed Bretons to regenerate magicka too. In Oblivion, although magicka regeneration was a percentage of the total of magicka, as in Skyrim, and so they were associated, the attribute that directly governed it was Willpower (in which Bretons had an initial advantage). In Morrowind, yet more different, the attribute governing the magicka regeneration was Intelligence (both races were equals here) and Willpower determined the success of casting spells. Clearly, the system hasn't been stabilised throughout the games, but we have some really defined patterns in relation to racial characteristics.
So, in Oblivion Altmer had the highest sustain if Willpower was levelled. And here is why I don't think that what we could potentially achieve with any race should inform our evaluation of the lore, as many of the racial characteristics were initial bonuses that allowed almost complete freedom developing the character in later stages of the game and these characteristics aren't the only source of lore.
Altmer weakness to elements was only a Morrowind and Oblivion thing. Skyrim didn't free High Elves, it restored the old status. Neither Arena nor Daggerfall mention elemental weakness. They do mention the Breton's resistance to magic, though. That resistance is mentioned again and again and again and again and again. THIS IS THE BRETON'S THING!!! Once and for all!
What you and ZOS are doing is trying to retcon given lore (and ESO has been criticized for that couple of times). You WANT Bretons to be the sustain race, but they. are. not.
Arena and Dagger mention Altmer are the most gifted mages and no other racials apply (other than Altmer resistance to stuns). Morrowind has no permanent regen mechanic, but we can say that thanks to Altmers' significantly increased mag pool, they'll last longer before OOM. Oblivion has regen mechanic, and Altmer maximize it. Skyrim literally makes regen the Altmers' super power.
All you have to argue is a greater power that is defensive first and sustain second. And note that Dragonskin isn't even REGEN. It's ABSORP, like Atronach and Harness Magicka. And you have a really slight Willpower starting stat that only represents a completely untrained individual and caps out at the same value. That's very thin, man.
I rest my case. It's honestly ridiculous that we are discussing THE. MOST. SPECIALIZED. MAGICKA. RACE at all. It just shows how incredibly ignorant Zenimax of this legendary franchise's history are.
jfc.
Who really cares?
The stats that applied in Daggerfall or Morrowind or Oblivion or Skyrim don't map 1:1 with stats in ESO. It's a completely different kind of game.
Going all the way back to Daggerfall lore:The tall, golden-skinned High Elves are easily equal to Bretons in sorcerous ability due to their high intelligence, force of will, and agility. They are more susceptible to spells than the people of High Rock, but by their nature are completely immune to paralyzation.
That says they are equals in sorcerous ability. So what is this all of this caterwauling about, honestly? You can't have the Altmer just be flat-out better mages than Bretons in this game, even if it did satisfy "muh lore", because then no one would play Bretons (which is the situation we have in live).
So now Altmer have the highest damage potential in the game courtesy of the highest raw magicka and spell damage stats.
And now Bretons have the highest sustain potential in the game along with a boost to spell resistance.
The same semblance of balance has been struck elsewhere in the game: just compare Orc to Altmer and Redguard to Breton.
This thread descended into lunacy long ago. Y'all need to get a grip.5 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Don't forget that their max stat bonus will now also scale by 20% with CP bonus, so more max stats - bigger buff. Granted, didn't expect them to rework the sustain mechanism in such an odd way.
Breton and Khajiit get the same buff. Anyway you slice it, they will not be used in endgame content.
No?Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭Has anyone in this thread actually been onto the pts and tested altmer dps yet? There’s so much theory QQ’ing going on that I can’t find any actual tests.
1 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Has anyone in this thread actually been onto the pts and tested altmer dps yet? There’s so much theory QQ’ing going on that I can’t find any actual tests.
little point tbh until the CP change comes in next week. Its a major change that will render testing this week completely obsolete, and we know its coming.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
This is simply an example of a very bad informed opinion. Let's try to make a better assesment of the magicka affinity of Altmer and Bretons relying only on lore.
Some forgotten or entirely ignored nuances are required to truly evaluate the magicka performance of the races. Use of Magicka in Elder Scrolls is divided in many disciplines and one of them, spellcasting, has traditionally had seven schools: Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism and Thaumaturgy. So we should look to every one of these fields to compare the races. Doing so through lore and the initial bonuses to skills from Morrowind it is clear that the only discipline in which Altmer consistently surpass Bretons is Destruction. It's just a matter of fact as well that Bretons not only aren't inferior to Altmer in the rest of magic schools, but even are better in Conjuration and Restoration. That Bretons are the best conjurers is well established in lore and I admit that their mastery of Restoration can be argued since Skyrim, in which they are equals, but it's the only exception.
So, yes, Altmer are the most innate magicka gifted race, but that doesn't mean that they are the most powerful magicka users. It's well known that Bretons have inherited some of this affinity and relying in their intelligence and willpower they are capable of overcome the gap with Altmer and even excel in some disciplines related with magic. Including Alchemy, Enchanting and, of course, Necromancy, mastered by Bretons due to ther ability with summoning. Though Altmer, consequently, have always had greater pools of magicka, Bretons have enjoyed as well bonus to their magicka and have always bested Altmer in its regeneration capability. To sum up, Bretons are powerful with a more indirect or defensive use of magic, I would say, by no means weaker. Simply put, they are different.
Now, translating all this to the ESO mechanics is difficult, but I believe that the solution provided by ZOS (Altmer are the magicka damage race and Bretons are the magicka sustain race) is respectful with the lore and balanced, which I think is as important as the lore. Those who want imbalanced races ought to find arguments outside the lore sphere, at least in this topic.
PS: Taking into account what I have been able to read, the last change to Spellcharge has been overanalysed in relation to DPS and poorly analysed in relation to Healing. I think that ZOS, again, being respectful with the lore, might not want Altmer to be a top Healing race, which would be possible with the first round of racial changes, providing great Spell Damage and sustain.
Breton was going to be the best healer regardless. The old passive would have made Altmer just barely acceptable in the role (the same as they are now on live).
I think they would be better than before in certain clases (Templar and Warden), but it's true they are viable now because of bonus to Magicka Recovery, exactly the most disputable magic ability to attribute to Altmer.
Bretons have always been noteworthy for their DEFENSE to magic, not sustain and power. Compared to Altmer, of course.
In fact, if we go back to Oblivion, Willpower increased your magicka regen rate and got more potent the higher your MAX MAGICKA was. So, Altmer had the highest sustain. And Skyrim gave us Highborn to get absurd magicka regen once per day. Their racial greater power was... sustain.
Lore-wise, Altmer cast stronger spells and for longer. You cannot argue that.
Sure, Skyrim brought great changes: freed Altmer of their weaknesses to elements and gave them Highborn, an ability without precedents. But Dragonskin allowed Bretons to regenerate magicka too. In Oblivion, although magicka regeneration was a percentage of the total of magicka, as in Skyrim, and so they were associated, the attribute that directly governed it was Willpower (in which Bretons had an initial advantage). In Morrowind, yet more different, the attribute governing the magicka regeneration was Intelligence (both races were equals here) and Willpower determined the success of casting spells. Clearly, the system hasn't been stabilised throughout the games, but we have some really defined patterns in relation to racial characteristics.
So, in Oblivion Altmer had the highest sustain if Willpower was levelled. And here is why I don't think that what we could potentially achieve with any race should inform our evaluation of the lore, as many of the racial characteristics were initial bonuses that allowed almost complete freedom developing the character in later stages of the game and these characteristics aren't the only source of lore.
Altmer weakness to elements was only a Morrowind and Oblivion thing. Skyrim didn't free High Elves, it restored the old status. Neither Arena nor Daggerfall mention elemental weakness. They do mention the Breton's resistance to magic, though. That resistance is mentioned again and again and again and again and again. THIS IS THE BRETON'S THING!!! Once and for all!
What you and ZOS are doing is trying to retcon given lore (and ESO has been criticized for that couple of times). You WANT Bretons to be the sustain race, but they. are. not.
Arena and Dagger mention Altmer are the most gifted mages and no other racials apply (other than Altmer resistance to stuns). Morrowind has no permanent regen mechanic, but we can say that thanks to Altmers' significantly increased mag pool, they'll last longer before OOM. Oblivion has regen mechanic, and Altmer maximize it. Skyrim literally makes regen the Altmers' super power.
All you have to argue is a greater power that is defensive first and sustain second. And note that Dragonskin isn't even REGEN. It's ABSORP, like Atronach and Harness Magicka. And you have a really slight Willpower starting stat that only represents a completely untrained individual and caps out at the same value. That's very thin, man.
I rest my case. It's honestly ridiculous that we are discussing THE. MOST. SPECIALIZED. MAGICKA. RACE at all. It just shows how incredibly ignorant Zenimax of this legendary franchise's history are.
jfc.
Who really cares?
The stats that applied in Daggerfall or Morrowind or Oblivion or Skyrim don't map 1:1 with stats in ESO. It's a completely different kind of game.
Going all the way back to Daggerfall lore:The tall, golden-skinned High Elves are easily equal to Bretons in sorcerous ability due to their high intelligence, force of will, and agility. They are more susceptible to spells than the people of High Rock, but by their nature are completely immune to paralyzation.
That says they are equals in sorcerous ability. So what is this all of this caterwauling about, honestly? You can't have the Altmer just be flat-out better mages than Bretons in this game, even if it did satisfy "muh lore", because then no one would play Bretons (which is the situation we have in live).
So now Altmer have the highest damage potential in the game courtesy of the highest raw magicka and spell damage stats.
And now Bretons have the highest sustain potential in the game along with a boost to spell resistance.
The same semblance of balance has been struck elsewhere in the game: just compare Orc to Altmer and Redguard to Breton.
This thread descended into lunacy long ago. Y'all need to get a grip.
The description is NOT from the game, it's a player's summary. The real quote from the character screen is in inverted commas. It mentions Sumurset, natural casters, speed, golden skin and stun immunity.
"Easily equals" means they are just as good or even better. And taking more damage from magic than Bretons doesn't mean High Elves are weak, but (underlining my point) that Bretons are resistant.
Stats are somewhat translatable to ESO. What matters is what the stats do in their respective games. And by all that is holy, you'd have to be very thick to deny that Altmer have always been magical super powerhouses. Hell, frikkin' Tiber Septim, Talos, needed the Numidium, a brass TITAN to bring the Aldmeri magic down.
Here's a grip for you:
Altmer are the expert mages. They should be no1 magicka dps, no question asked. Maybe Dunmer with fire involved, but not the defensive Bretons. If "muh lore" isn't a reason for you in a two-decades-long RPG franchise, than maybe it's "muh tokens", "muh characters", "muh money" that are at stake after five years. Switching top magicka dps race to Bretons or worse, Khajit, isn't balanced, neither. It's idiotic.4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Saw an simulated test. Altmer is mostly bis. Diference is less than 500 damage on an 60K parse, less than the error margin I estimate. Reverting the nerf would also not make them OP.validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Has anyone in this thread actually been onto the pts and tested altmer dps yet? There’s so much theory QQ’ing going on that I can’t find any actual tests.
little point tbh until the CP change comes in next week. Its a major change that will render testing this week completely obsolete, and we know its coming.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
Who said I did? I have a alter pet sorc and a wee bit attached to him but think I'll be changing him to Breton that way I can keep my wizard beard 😊Edited by Ozby on February 9, 2019 4:37AMPC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Am I the only one who's mainly upset how utterly boring Altmer racials are compared to Breton? (Dunmer suffers similar problems, imo).
Bretons have two different sources of sustain, spell resistance that perfectly fits their lore and another conditional resistance increase for extra flavour.
Altmer have Spell Power, one useless passive so mediocre it doesn't even get talked about (5% dmg reduction during casting) and one that doesn't fit their lore at all or benefit them in their PvE role. They might just as well be simple stat sticks.
When I look at Altmer, I just don't see anything that makes me want to play them. There is no interesting theme to their passives at all.
Similarly boring are Bosmer (with one whole passive only useful in PvP) and probably still Imperials. Dunmer at least have their fire resistance, but even they could use some more flavour.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »This thread still going? Wow
It'll keep going until the race gets corrected. There is no reason to end the discussion as the race is still broken.4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Am I the only one who's mainly upset how utterly boring Altmer racials are compared to Breton? (Dunmer suffers similar problems, imo).
Bretons have two different sources of sustain, spell resistance that perfectly fits their lore and another conditional resistance increase for extra flavour.
Altmer have Spell Power, one useless passive so mediocre it doesn't even get talked about (5% dmg reduction during casting) and one that doesn't fit their lore at all or benefit them in their PvE role. They might just as well be simple stat sticks.
When I look at Altmer, I just don't see anything that makes me want to play them. There is no interesting theme to their passives at all.
Similarly boring are Bosmer (with one whole passive only useful in PvP) and probably still Imperials. Dunmer at least have their fire resistance, but even they could use some more flavour.
ZOS completely fell asleep at the wheel while making Altmer (and the other races you mentioned).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 6:17AM2
