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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
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Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
penetration won't over-perform it will just let Altmers put their 20-something points into some other CP with vastly diminished returns.
1500 Penetration is 3% flat damage increase in PVE, with Tanks enchantments nerf this will be even more valuable.Edited by Lord_Eomer on February 6, 2019 7:28PM0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
penetration won't over-perform it will just let Altmers put their 20-something points into some other CP with vastly diminished returns.
1500 Penetration is 3% flat damage increase in PVE, with Tanks enchantments nerf this will be even more valuable.
Tanks wont be changing anything, they will be running crusher on a staff. 1500 penetration is 0% flat damage increase if you're already at the cap. Adding pen to the race means less pen CP points to manage the cap which right now only needs 23-26 points give or take to hit the cap for most of us.
Not saying it's a bad idea just sayin..it is what it is, the end result will just be a few more cp to increase a couple other things by 1%. Which is not a bad thing.2 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
penetration won't over-perform it will just let Altmers put their 20-something points into some other CP with vastly diminished returns.
1500 Penetration is 3% flat damage increase in PVE, with Tanks enchantments nerf this will be even more valuable.
Tanks wont be changing anything, they will be running crusher on a staff. 1500 penetration is 0% flat damage increase if you're already at the cap. Adding pen to the race means less pen CP points to manage the cap which right now only needs 23-26 points give or take to hit the cap for most of us.
Not saying it's a bad idea just sayin..it is what it is, the end result will just be a few more cp to increase a couple other things by 1%. Which is not a bad thing.
In harder contents Staff mostly get easily killed tanks, not every tank can really run staff successfully on back-bar but this may change in future.0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
penetration won't over-perform it will just let Altmers put their 20-something points into some other CP with vastly diminished returns.
1500 Penetration is 3% flat damage increase in PVE, with Tanks enchantments nerf this will be even more valuable.
Tanks wont be changing anything, they will be running crusher on a staff. 1500 penetration is 0% flat damage increase if you're already at the cap. Adding pen to the race means less pen CP points to manage the cap which right now only needs 23-26 points give or take to hit the cap for most of us.
Not saying it's a bad idea just sayin..it is what it is, the end result will just be a few more cp to increase a couple other things by 1%. Which is not a bad thing.
In harder contents Staff mostly get easily killed tanks, not every tank can really run staff successfully on back-bar but this may change in future.
Uh most tanks I know doing vet content run a staff, not sure if we are playing the same game.
personally I don't prefer it, i would rather be double S&B, but it is what it is.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. They clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. You know whats also a fact? That 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Those are facts and they indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.
Breton can also use blue food vs. clockwork or witchmothers. giving the benefit of the doubt lets say clockwork. With the CP % now affecting this you're looking at breton picking up another ~169 spell damage.
Add that weap/spell damage enchant, you're looking at +621 spell power for Breton at the cost of whatever the dps from absorb mag enchant is.
And with no recovery and not running a heavy build, you might even need a mag recovery glyph as an altmer whereas a breton can go full spell damage. So there's another +174-278 spell power, depending on infused or not. Those 3 differences are 795-900 spell power.
this is before considering Breton's very useful resist bonus not to mention the fact that blue food means no health glyphs are needed anywhere to have a substantial health pool. I usually have one health enchant on all my non-skoria helmets so i can always predict my health pool. So go ahead and tack on another ~100 spell damage there.
you could literally squeeze nearly 1k extra spell power out of a breton and wind up with roughly the same magicka management as an altmer.
These seem like exaggerated numbers.
I use Blue food today on a Dunmer Magblade in raid (except in vAS+2 because I hate that place). Dunmer have no sustain passives at all. And I don't use the Absorb Magicka glyph in all content, either. In Craglorn raids it's not necessary and in MoL I could take it or leave it. Usually it's one or the other ... I'm either using an Absorb Magicka glyph or Clockwork food, not both.
I'm fairly certain Liko used max/max food in all of his magblade and magplar parses for all 4 magicka DPS races in his race comparison videos.
And an Altmer most certainly does *not* need a recovery glyph on jewelry.
I think people are forgetting that there are also skills that aid sustain. Siphoning Strikes uptime on a magblade, Netch uptime on a magden, Dark Conversion on a sorc, Channeled Focus on a Templar, or Spell Symmetry on any build. And of course there's also Worm and Symphony of Blades (potentially) that will aid sustain beyond what we see in most test parses.Edited by LiquidPony on February 6, 2019 7:47PM0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »These seem like exaggerated numbers.
I'm just using 10.5 mag = 1 spell power. The only exaggeration is the assumption that CP 20% bonus will affect food buffs which is the case according to my understanding, so multiplying those numbers (in both cases equally) by 1.2.
So sure, my numbers could admittedly be a little bloated to prove my point, but my point is that Altmer and Breton both get 2k magicka, Altmer gets 258 direct spell power - Bretons in just about every scenario can get more than 258 spell power and still manage magicka more efficiently.
It's just math, and I hate math, and I hate having too much math be part of the game. But as it stands now Bretons are an obvious choice over altmer, and dunmer only lack 11 spell power and bring a lot more to the table. For NB and Templar Khajiit is a better option. I can think of no reason I'd run an Altmer.
So when you have a big Altmer lore expansion one year, then the next launch a khajiit expansion and significally buff khajiit and nerf altmer. . .welp. "The optics aren't good".
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bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
penetration won't over-perform it will just let Altmers put their 20-something points into some other CP with vastly diminished returns.
1500 Penetration is 3% flat damage increase in PVE, with Tanks enchantments nerf this will be even more valuable.
Tanks wont be changing anything, they will be running crusher on a staff. 1500 penetration is 0% flat damage increase if you're already at the cap. Adding pen to the race means less pen CP points to manage the cap which right now only needs 23-26 points give or take to hit the cap for most of us.
Not saying it's a bad idea just sayin..it is what it is, the end result will just be a few more cp to increase a couple other things by 1%. Which is not a bad thing.
I think penetration would be great idea. It wouldn't push altmer much ahead in PVE but give flexibility and it would be great for PVP.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »These seem like exaggerated numbers.
I'm just using 10.5 mag = 1 spell power. The only exaggeration is the assumption that CP 20% bonus will affect food buffs which is the case according to my understanding, so multiplying those numbers (in both cases equally) by 1.2.
So sure, my numbers could admittedly be a little bloated to prove my point, but my point is that Altmer and Breton both get 2k magicka, Altmer gets 258 direct spell power - Bretons in just about every scenario can get more than 258 spell power and still manage magicka more efficiently.
It's just math, and I hate math, and I hate having too much math be part of the game. But as it stands now Bretons are an obvious choice over altmer, and dunmer only lack 11 spell power and bring a lot more to the table. For NB and Templar Khajiit is a better option. I can think of no reason I'd run an Altmer.
So when you have a big Altmer lore expansion one year, then the next launch a khajiit expansion and significally buff khajiit and nerf altmer. . .welp. "The optics aren't good".
I mean exaggerated in the sense that the need for additional sustain on an Altmer is being overstated.
And I disagree that Breton is an "obvious choice over Altmer and Dunmer". Altmer/Breton/Dunmer are all well within the margin of error (human error, crit chance, proc rates) in most of the tests I've seen (and done myself).
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454547/dps-data-and-analysis-on-racial-passives-through-all-pts-cycles-updated-with-4-3-1-magplar-data
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455486/dps-comparison-of-races-on-magplar-on-pts4-3-0-tests-graphs-and-analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE
I'll probably race-change my Dunmer Magblade to a Breton, but that's because I hate the way Dunmer look and would just prefer to be a Breton. :P
Don't see any need to change my Altmer Magsorc though. In fact, while the new Spell Recharge passive is almost entirely useless in PvE, it means I can mostly likely drop Amberplasm in PvP and go for a purely magicka-oriented set.
I think the real question here is whether or not Khajiit are overperforming, because the other three magicka-oriented DPS races seem fairly close as far as I can tell.Edited by LiquidPony on February 6, 2019 7:59PM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
There is no situation where an Altmer doesn't need a magicka absorb enchant, so your argument is invalid. Again, actually playing the game helps your argument.
And if every single fight requires sustain and the meta in general revolves around sustain then naturally a race that revolves around sustain should be able to compete or even come up on top. Apparently common sense is not that common for people like you.
Actually using ur brain before u make a post would help ur argument. Nice try. Better luck next time.
You just proved my point and invalidated your entire argument...
Actually no i did not, you are just not that bright to even understand what people are talking about. I mean you cant even properly read the parses you are using as an argument. So yeah, like i said, better luck next time.2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
If you can't sustain that is a loss of damage, your point is ridiculous because it doesn;t take in account real situations, but rather the hypothetical, what if.
What if altmer has just as much sustain, or what if the fight doesn't last long, therefore you have no sustain problems, then they would be ahead, but as a matter of fact they are not wehn you take in account any fight that is not roflstomp easy, so if you are not gonna try to judge things fairly, just shut it.
If the magicka races were relatively well balanced before, now with the nerf, altmer will surely go below by quite a margin.Edited by JinMori on February 6, 2019 8:14PM2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »There are 10 races. How is top 4 lowest mag DPS?
Are you really gonna be that oblivious, he obviously meant bottom 4 of the MAGICKA attuned races.1 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »I mean exaggerated in the sense that the need for additional sustain on an Altmer is being overstated.
It's possibly overstated but this is a public test server forum so most things said here could be labeled as 'overstated'. Point well taken that the margin of error and difference between the races is small. . . but a 7% reduction to skills is signficant. There was a reason it was removed as a CP option.
I'm indifferent about it really. My only concern is that this latest change to altmer seems pretty pointless and goes against ZoS claim to be balancing with 'lore' as a requirement.
3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like him show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. Parses clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. Thats a fact. 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Thats also a fact and those facts indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
No, altmers are ahead of bretons in the dmg department. Bretons are ahead in the sustain department. What type of encounter you are facing and which department it favors is a different discussion. There is a big difference between raw dmg output and fights in which sustain is important. Yes a 6mil is more close to real boss fights. I dont disagree with that. This doesnt mean that bretons as a race have more dmg output because they can compete in those fights. They can compete because that nature of the fight doesnt just revolve around raw dmg output but also sustain which is where bretons excel at. Therefore, bretons should be able to compete in those fights. The more irrelevant sustain is in a fight, the better altmers do. The more relevant sustain is in a fight the better bretons will do. Whether the meta revolves around the former or the latter, is irrelevant. Just because altmers are the dmg race it doesnt mean that they should do more dmg in every type of encounter. If altmers could do more dmg in fights where sustain is that much important then there would be naturally no reason to play a breton. What would be the point.
I dont like stamina on altmers any more than you do. I dont give a crap about lore and sh*t but stamina on altmers feels weird even to me. But Im not gonna sit here and spread misinformation about altmers not being the dmg race because someone cant even distinguish the difference between raw dmg output and sustained fights.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454547/dps-data-and-analysis-on-racial-passives-through-all-pts-cycles-updated-with-4-3-1-magplar-data/p1
This are the facts I am following, highly controlled and repeatable parses, yes altmer is slightly ahead of breton as for 4.3.1 and i am eagerly waiting for an update for 4.3.2 than we shall see...
Cool, altmer were slightly ahead of bretons. Just as dunmers were without sustain and worse stats than altmer. So logically altmer will still stay ahead according to those parses or at the very least compete even tho sustain in those parses was very important and couldnt use bi stat food like bretons. So i guess my arguments are indeed supported by facts, no?0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. They clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. You know whats also a fact? That 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Those are facts and they indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.
Breton can also use blue food vs. clockwork or witchmothers. giving the benefit of the doubt lets say clockwork. With the CP % now affecting this you're looking at breton picking up another ~169 spell damage.
Add that weap/spell damage enchant, you're looking at +621 spell power for Breton at the cost of whatever the dps from absorb mag enchant is.
And with no recovery and not running a heavy build, you might even need a mag recovery glyph as an altmer whereas a breton can go full spell damage. So there's another +174-278 spell power, depending on infused or not. Those 3 differences are 795-900 spell power.
this is before considering Breton's very useful resist bonus not to mention the fact that blue food means no health glyphs are needed anywhere to have a substantial health pool. I usually have one health enchant on all my non-skoria helmets so i can always predict my health pool. So go ahead and tack on another ~100 spell damage there.
you could literally squeeze nearly 1k extra spell power out of a breton and wind up with roughly the same magicka management as an altmer.
These seem like exaggerated numbers.
I use Blue food today on a Dunmer Magblade in raid (except in vAS+2 because I hate that place). Dunmer have no sustain passives at all. And I don't use the Absorb Magicka glyph in all content, either. In Craglorn raids it's not necessary and in MoL I could take it or leave it. Usually it's one or the other ... I'm either using an Absorb Magicka glyph or Clockwork food, not both.
I'm fairly certain Liko used max/max food in all of his magblade and magplar parses for all 4 magicka DPS races in his race comparison videos.
And an Altmer most certainly does *not* need a recovery glyph on jewelry.
I think people are forgetting that there are also skills that aid sustain. Siphoning Strikes uptime on a magblade, Netch uptime on a magden, Dark Conversion on a sorc, Channeled Focus on a Templar, or Spell Symmetry on any build. And of course there's also Worm and Symphony of Blades (potentially) that will aid sustain beyond what we see in most test parses.
Absorb enchant is still needed with all those skills. They are already mandatory in every build, you aren't suggested something new.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 6, 2019 8:23PM0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »I mean exaggerated in the sense that the need for additional sustain on an Altmer is being overstated.
It's possibly overstated but this is a public test server forum so most things said here could be labeled as 'overstated'. Point well taken that the margin of error and difference between the races is small. . . but a 7% reduction to skills is signficant. There was a reason it was removed as a CP option.
I'm indifferent about it really. My only concern is that this latest change to altmer seems pretty pointless and goes against ZoS claim to be balancing with 'lore' as a requirement.
If things that are said are based on actual testing rather than overreactions to patch notes, they're usually not overstated.
I don't think the change is pointless. I don't particularly like it since I focus on PvE, but as I said previously, it does have some positive PvP implications. I was happy with the racial passives for all of the DPS-oriented races in 4.3.0, to be honest, but I also don't think the 4.3.2 changes are that big of a deal. Maybe a slight tweak of Altmer's max magicka passive up to 2250 or 2500 would be ideal but again that really only applies to the comparison with Khajiit as the other magicka races are very close to each other.
And anyway, as far as "lore" is concerned, Altmer have often previously had some sort of "stamina" related bonus (as it applies) in prior Elder Scrolls games. In Arena they are described as being " extremely intelligent, *agile*, and willful." In Morrowind their base Agility is +40 (compared to a Breton's +30). In Battlespire Altmer have +10 Long Blade and +10 Short Blade skill.Edited by LiquidPony on February 6, 2019 8:32PM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
penetration won't over-perform it will just let Altmers put their 20-something points into some other CP with vastly diminished returns.
1500 Penetration is 3% flat damage increase in PVE, with Tanks enchantments nerf this will be even more valuable.
Tanks wont be changing anything, they will be running crusher on a staff. 1500 penetration is 0% flat damage increase if you're already at the cap. Adding pen to the race means less pen CP points to manage the cap which right now only needs 23-26 points give or take to hit the cap for most of us.
Not saying it's a bad idea just sayin..it is what it is, the end result will just be a few more cp to increase a couple other things by 1%. Which is not a bad thing.
In harder contents Staff mostly get easily killed tanks, not every tank can really run staff successfully on back-bar but this may change in future.
Ice staff has exactly the same blocking % as S&B. Only thing you lose is enchantment and armor from shield. What you get is 100% crusher uptime from blockade + emergency blocking with magicka + ranged interrupt if necessary + ranged taunt + ranged magicka HA. Honestly saying i don't know why anybody runs dual S&B at all.0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Stamina recovery is a measurement of endurance, not agility.
So from what you're saying, form a 'lore' perspective they should get some weapon damage, not recovery.
in either case in the context of ESO its mostly useless.1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. They clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. You know whats also a fact? That 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Those are facts and they indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.
Breton can also use blue food vs. clockwork or witchmothers. giving the benefit of the doubt lets say clockwork. With the CP % now affecting this you're looking at breton picking up another ~169 spell damage.
Add that weap/spell damage enchant, you're looking at +621 spell power for Breton at the cost of whatever the dps from absorb mag enchant is.
And with no recovery and not running a heavy build, you might even need a mag recovery glyph as an altmer whereas a breton can go full spell damage. So there's another +174-278 spell power, depending on infused or not. Those 3 differences are 795-900 spell power.
this is before considering Breton's very useful resist bonus not to mention the fact that blue food means no health glyphs are needed anywhere to have a substantial health pool. I usually have one health enchant on all my non-skoria helmets so i can always predict my health pool. So go ahead and tack on another ~100 spell damage there.
you could literally squeeze nearly 1k extra spell power out of a breton and wind up with roughly the same magicka management as an altmer.
These seem like exaggerated numbers.
I use Blue food today on a Dunmer Magblade in raid (except in vAS+2 because I hate that place). Dunmer have no sustain passives at all. And I don't use the Absorb Magicka glyph in all content, either. In Craglorn raids it's not necessary and in MoL I could take it or leave it. Usually it's one or the other ... I'm either using an Absorb Magicka glyph or Clockwork food, not both.
I'm fairly certain Liko used max/max food in all of his magblade and magplar parses for all 4 magicka DPS races in his race comparison videos.
And an Altmer most certainly does *not* need a recovery glyph on jewelry.
I think people are forgetting that there are also skills that aid sustain. Siphoning Strikes uptime on a magblade, Netch uptime on a magden, Dark Conversion on a sorc, Channeled Focus on a Templar, or Spell Symmetry on any build. And of course there's also Worm and Symphony of Blades (potentially) that will aid sustain beyond what we see in most test parses.
Absorb enchant is still needed with all those skills. They are already mandatory in every build, you aren't suggested something new.
You aren't following.
The key word here was *uptime*. Depending on build, you may drop Siphoning Strikes or Channeled Focus at some point during a parse because you can finish without it. You may cast Spell Symmetry only once or you may cast it two or three times, depending on build.
This is in response to someone else claiming that Altmer are going to have to run regen food *and* an Absorb Magicka enchant *and* possibly a Magicka Recovery jewelry glyph, which is absolutely not the case. Just one of the first two options will suffice in most content.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like him show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. Parses clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. Thats a fact. 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Thats also a fact and those facts indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
No, altmers are ahead of bretons in the dmg department. Bretons are ahead in the sustain department. What type of encounter you are facing and which department it favors is a different discussion. There is a big difference between raw dmg output and fights in which sustain is important. Yes a 6mil is more close to real boss fights. I dont disagree with that. This doesnt mean that bretons as a race have more dmg output because they can compete in those fights. They can compete because that nature of the fight doesnt just revolve around raw dmg output but also sustain which is where bretons excel at. Therefore, bretons should be able to compete in those fights. The more irrelevant sustain is in a fight, the better altmers do. The more relevant sustain is in a fight the better bretons will do. Whether the meta revolves around the former or the latter, is irrelevant. Just because altmers are the dmg race it doesnt mean that they should do more dmg in every type of encounter. If altmers could do more dmg in fights where sustain is that much important then there would be naturally no reason to play a breton. What would be the point.
I dont like stamina on altmers any more than you do. I dont give a crap about lore and sh*t but stamina on altmers feels weird even to me. But Im not gonna sit here and spread misinformation about altmers not being the dmg race because someone cant even distinguish the difference between raw dmg output and sustained fights.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454547/dps-data-and-analysis-on-racial-passives-through-all-pts-cycles-updated-with-4-3-1-magplar-data/p1
This are the facts I am following, highly controlled and repeatable parses, yes altmer is slightly ahead of breton as for 4.3.1 and i am eagerly waiting for an update for 4.3.2 than we shall see...
I'd like to see those tests with berserker enchant on Breton. It should yield more damage over shock glyph.1 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Ice staff has exactly the same blocking % as S&B. Only thing you lose is enchantment and armor from shield. What you get is 100% crusher uptime from blockade + emergency blocking with magicka + ranged interrupt if necessary + ranged taunt + ranged magicka HA. Honestly saying i don't know why anybody runs dual S&B at all.
Even blocking with a lightning staff is fine in most cases unless it's a heavy attack, but any good tank can swap and block and knows those are coming. There's a reason they are telegraphed. The longest you should ever be on your staff bar is the time it takes to drop blockade and use a heavy.
I say this as someone who isn't super thrilled about the 1h enchant changes for tanks because I personally just feel dumb using a stick.Edited by Krayl on February 6, 2019 8:35PM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. They clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. You know whats also a fact? That 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Those are facts and they indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.
Breton can also use blue food vs. clockwork or witchmothers. giving the benefit of the doubt lets say clockwork. With the CP % now affecting this you're looking at breton picking up another ~169 spell damage.
Add that weap/spell damage enchant, you're looking at +621 spell power for Breton at the cost of whatever the dps from absorb mag enchant is.
And with no recovery and not running a heavy build, you might even need a mag recovery glyph as an altmer whereas a breton can go full spell damage. So there's another +174-278 spell power, depending on infused or not. Those 3 differences are 795-900 spell power.
this is before considering Breton's very useful resist bonus not to mention the fact that blue food means no health glyphs are needed anywhere to have a substantial health pool. I usually have one health enchant on all my non-skoria helmets so i can always predict my health pool. So go ahead and tack on another ~100 spell damage there.
you could literally squeeze nearly 1k extra spell power out of a breton and wind up with roughly the same magicka management as an altmer.
These seem like exaggerated numbers.
I use Blue food today on a Dunmer Magblade in raid (except in vAS+2 because I hate that place). Dunmer have no sustain passives at all. And I don't use the Absorb Magicka glyph in all content, either. In Craglorn raids it's not necessary and in MoL I could take it or leave it. Usually it's one or the other ... I'm either using an Absorb Magicka glyph or Clockwork food, not both.
I'm fairly certain Liko used max/max food in all of his magblade and magplar parses for all 4 magicka DPS races in his race comparison videos.
And an Altmer most certainly does *not* need a recovery glyph on jewelry.
I think people are forgetting that there are also skills that aid sustain. Siphoning Strikes uptime on a magblade, Netch uptime on a magden, Dark Conversion on a sorc, Channeled Focus on a Templar, or Spell Symmetry on any build. And of course there's also Worm and Symphony of Blades (potentially) that will aid sustain beyond what we see in most test parses.
Absorb enchant is still needed with all those skills. They are already mandatory in every build, you aren't suggested something new.
You aren't following.
The key word here was *uptime*. Depending on build, you may drop Siphoning Strikes or Channeled Focus at some point during a parse because you can finish without it. You may cast Spell Symmetry only once or you may cast it two or three times, depending on build.
This is in response to someone else claiming that Altmer are going to have to run regen food *and* an Absorb Magicka enchant *and* possibly a Magicka Recovery jewelry glyph, which is absolutely not the case. Just one of the first two options will suffice in most content.
They definitely don't need both. They only need one.
But that one is still a DPS loss.0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
This is in response to someone else claiming that Altmer are going to have to run regen food *and* an Absorb Magicka enchant *and* possibly a Magicka Recovery jewelry glyph, which is absolutely not the case. Just one of the first two options will suffice in most content.
I love this sort of debating where you use words like 'most' and 'possibly' to debate an argument while disregarding the fact that I specifically used words like "can", "could" and "might need to. . "
In the very least a breton can run the weapon/spell damage enchant and blue food. At which point they are already ahead of altmer with more spell power, higher magicka pool, substantial health bonus that also means they don't have to use any HP enchants to get to an acceptable level of health for vet trials, opening up room for a magicka enchant where an altmer might need health unless they are running something like Skoria. So, even 100 more spell damage on top.
So even just using the first two options breton comes out ahead.Edited by Krayl on February 6, 2019 8:42PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
If you can't sustain that is a loss of damage, your point is ridiculous because it doesn;t take in account real situations, but rather the hypothetical, what if.
What if altmer has just as much sustain, or what if the fight doesn't last long, therefore you have no sustain problems, then they would be ahead, but as a matter of fact they are not wehn you take in account any fight that is not roflstomp easy, so if you are not gonna try to judge things fairly, just shut it.
If the magicka races were relatively well balanced before, now with the nerf, altmer will surely go below by quite a margin.
If you are not gonna read properly what im writing then you are the one who needs to shut it. Go back and read again.
Im not using any hypothetical situations. Im using real situations and if real situations require sustain then the race that revolves around sustain should be able to compete. It really isnt such a hard concept to grasp. In terms of raw dmg output however altmers are ahead. Period. And even in parses were sustain matters and should therefore favour bretons, altmers still have higher parse numbers. (higher parse number is not the same as average DPS from multiple parses)
As far as the nerf is concerned you should be careful about ur statements cause based on the information you have now altmers dont "fall behind by quite a margin" but actually remain extremely competitive and still have higher parse numbers even in fights were sustain is important. Its statistically impossible for altmers to do worse than dunmers and dunmers were competitive and parsed higher than bretons without sustain and without the extra magicka they have now.
You dont like stamina on high elf. I get it, and i dont like it either and i hope they change it. But please refer from spreading nonsense and then telling people to shut it because you cant handle facts.
0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭"In terms of raw dmg output however altmers are ahead. Period."
sure. a naked breton with no food/gear/cp is gonna lose out to a naked altmer in terms of dps. But that isn't how the game is played.3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
If you can't sustain that is a loss of damage, your point is ridiculous because it doesn;t take in account real situations, but rather the hypothetical, what if.
What if altmer has just as much sustain, or what if the fight doesn't last long, therefore you have no sustain problems, then they would be ahead, but as a matter of fact they are not wehn you take in account any fight that is not roflstomp easy, so if you are not gonna try to judge things fairly, just shut it.
If the magicka races were relatively well balanced before, now with the nerf, altmer will surely go below by quite a margin.
If you are not gonna read properly what im writing then you are the one who needs to shut it. Go back and read again.
Im not using any hypothetical situations. Im using real situations and if real situations require sustain then the race that revolves around sustain should be able to compete. It really isnt such a hard concept to grasp. In terms of raw dmg output however altmers are ahead. Period. And even in parses were sustain matters and should therefore favour bretons, altmers still have higher parse numbers. (higher parse number is not the same as average DPS from multiple parses)
There is no hypothetical scenario here. There is only context.
You are ignoring context.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 6, 2019 8:48PM3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like him show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. Parses clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. Thats a fact. 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Thats also a fact and those facts indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
No, altmers are ahead of bretons in the dmg department. Bretons are ahead in the sustain department. What type of encounter you are facing and which department it favors is a different discussion. There is a big difference between raw dmg output and fights in which sustain is important. Yes a 6mil is more close to real boss fights. I dont disagree with that. This doesnt mean that bretons as a race have more dmg output because they can compete in those fights. They can compete because that nature of the fight doesnt just revolve around raw dmg output but also sustain which is where bretons excel at. Therefore, bretons should be able to compete in those fights. The more irrelevant sustain is in a fight, the better altmers do. The more relevant sustain is in a fight the better bretons will do. Whether the meta revolves around the former or the latter, is irrelevant. Just because altmers are the dmg race it doesnt mean that they should do more dmg in every type of encounter. If altmers could do more dmg in fights where sustain is that much important then there would be naturally no reason to play a breton. What would be the point.
I dont like stamina on altmers any more than you do. I dont give a crap about lore and sh*t but stamina on altmers feels weird even to me. But Im not gonna sit here and spread misinformation about altmers not being the dmg race because someone cant even distinguish the difference between raw dmg output and sustained fights.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454547/dps-data-and-analysis-on-racial-passives-through-all-pts-cycles-updated-with-4-3-1-magplar-data/p1
This are the facts I am following, highly controlled and repeatable parses, yes altmer is slightly ahead of breton as for 4.3.1 and i am eagerly waiting for an update for 4.3.2 than we shall see...
I'd like to see those tests with berserker enchant on Breton. It should yield more damage over shock glyph.
All races used berserker enchant. At least thats what it says.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
If you can't sustain that is a loss of damage, your point is ridiculous because it doesn;t take in account real situations, but rather the hypothetical, what if.
What if altmer has just as much sustain, or what if the fight doesn't last long, therefore you have no sustain problems, then they would be ahead, but as a matter of fact they are not wehn you take in account any fight that is not roflstomp easy, so if you are not gonna try to judge things fairly, just shut it.
If the magicka races were relatively well balanced before, now with the nerf, altmer will surely go below by quite a margin.
If you are not gonna read properly what im writing then you are the one who needs to shut it. Go back and read again.
Im not using any hypothetical situations. Im using real situations and if real situations require sustain then the race that revolves around sustain should be able to compete. It really isnt such a hard concept to grasp. In terms of raw dmg output however altmers are ahead. Period. And even in parses were sustain matters and should therefore favour bretons, altmers still have higher parse numbers. (higher parse number is not the same as average DPS from multiple parses)
As far as the nerf is concerned you should be careful about ur statements cause based on the information you have now altmers dont "fall behind by quite a margin" but actually remain extremely competitive and still have higher parse numbers even in fights were sustain is important. Its statistically impossible for altmers to do worse than dunmers and dunmers were competitive and parsed higher than bretons without sustain and without the extra magicka they have now.
You dont like stamina on high elf. I get it, and i dont like it either and i hope they change it. But please refer from spreading nonsense and then telling people to shut it because you cant handle facts.
We will see, in the next few days.
Edited by JinMori on February 6, 2019 8:54PM0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. They clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. You know whats also a fact? That 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Those are facts and they indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.
Breton can also use blue food vs. clockwork or witchmothers. giving the benefit of the doubt lets say clockwork. With the CP % now affecting this you're looking at breton picking up another ~169 spell damage.
Add that weap/spell damage enchant, you're looking at +621 spell power for Breton at the cost of whatever the dps from absorb mag enchant is.
And with no recovery and not running a heavy build, you might even need a mag recovery glyph as an altmer whereas a breton can go full spell damage. So there's another +174-278 spell power, depending on infused or not. Those 3 differences are 795-900 spell power.
this is before considering Breton's very useful resist bonus not to mention the fact that blue food means no health glyphs are needed anywhere to have a substantial health pool. I usually have one health enchant on all my non-skoria helmets so i can always predict my health pool. So go ahead and tack on another ~100 spell damage there.
you could literally squeeze nearly 1k extra spell power out of a breton and wind up with roughly the same magicka management as an altmer.
These seem like exaggerated numbers.
I use Blue food today on a Dunmer Magblade in raid (except in vAS+2 because I hate that place). Dunmer have no sustain passives at all. And I don't use the Absorb Magicka glyph in all content, either. In Craglorn raids it's not necessary and in MoL I could take it or leave it. Usually it's one or the other ... I'm either using an Absorb Magicka glyph or Clockwork food, not both.
I'm fairly certain Liko used max/max food in all of his magblade and magplar parses for all 4 magicka DPS races in his race comparison videos.
And an Altmer most certainly does *not* need a recovery glyph on jewelry.
I think people are forgetting that there are also skills that aid sustain. Siphoning Strikes uptime on a magblade, Netch uptime on a magden, Dark Conversion on a sorc, Channeled Focus on a Templar, or Spell Symmetry on any build. And of course there's also Worm and Symphony of Blades (potentially) that will aid sustain beyond what we see in most test parses.
Absorb enchant is still needed with all those skills. They are already mandatory in every build, you aren't suggested something new.
You aren't following.
The key word here was *uptime*. Depending on build, you may drop Siphoning Strikes or Channeled Focus at some point during a parse because you can finish without it. You may cast Spell Symmetry only once or you may cast it two or three times, depending on build.
This is in response to someone else claiming that Altmer are going to have to run regen food *and* an Absorb Magicka enchant *and* possibly a Magicka Recovery jewelry glyph, which is absolutely not the case. Just one of the first two options will suffice in most content.
They definitely don't need both. They only need one.
But that one is still a DPS loss.
That is obvious but not really the question.
A Breton with a Berserker enchant has on average about 240 more Spell Damage (buffed with Major and Minor Sorcery) than an Altmer with an Absorb Magicka enchant. So the question is whether that additional 240 Spell Damage is better or worse than the DPS done by Absorb Magicka.
By my math they're almost exactly the same, somewhere in the range of 3-4% DPS increases in both cases in a solo parse. Which makes sense because in most testing I've seen and done, Altmer and Breton are pretty much neck-and-neck in terms of DPS.Edited by LiquidPony on February 6, 2019 8:58PM0 -
Sebar80✭✭✭Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like him show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. Parses clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. Thats a fact. 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Thats also a fact and those facts indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
No, altmers are ahead of bretons in the dmg department. Bretons are ahead in the sustain department. What type of encounter you are facing and which department it favors is a different discussion. There is a big difference between raw dmg output and fights in which sustain is important. Yes a 6mil is more close to real boss fights. I dont disagree with that. This doesnt mean that bretons as a race have more dmg output because they can compete in those fights. They can compete because that nature of the fight doesnt just revolve around raw dmg output but also sustain which is where bretons excel at. Therefore, bretons should be able to compete in those fights. The more irrelevant sustain is in a fight, the better altmers do. The more relevant sustain is in a fight the better bretons will do. Whether the meta revolves around the former or the latter, is irrelevant. Just because altmers are the dmg race it doesnt mean that they should do more dmg in every type of encounter. If altmers could do more dmg in fights where sustain is that much important then there would be naturally no reason to play a breton. What would be the point.
I dont like stamina on altmers any more than you do. I dont give a crap about lore and sh*t but stamina on altmers feels weird even to me. But Im not gonna sit here and spread misinformation about altmers not being the dmg race because someone cant even distinguish the difference between raw dmg output and sustained fights.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454547/dps-data-and-analysis-on-racial-passives-through-all-pts-cycles-updated-with-4-3-1-magplar-data/p1
This are the facts I am following, highly controlled and repeatable parses, yes altmer is slightly ahead of breton as for 4.3.1 and i am eagerly waiting for an update for 4.3.2 than we shall see...
Cool, altmer were slightly ahead of bretons. Just as dunmers were without sustain and worse stats than altmer. So logically altmer will still stay ahead according to those parses or at the very least compete even tho sustain in those parses was very important and couldnt use bi stat food like bretons. So i guess my arguments are indeed supported by facts, no?
Only as of 4.3.1, in 4.3.2 Altmer will lose 96mag regen per second.In 2 minute fight its equivalent of 11500 magica or 4 times in rotation use of spell symmetry. As i said before we shall see...PC EU
PVE
Tanks all classes0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like him show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. Parses clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. Thats a fact. 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Thats also a fact and those facts indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
No, altmers are ahead of bretons in the dmg department. Bretons are ahead in the sustain department. What type of encounter you are facing and which department it favors is a different discussion. There is a big difference between raw dmg output and fights in which sustain is important. Yes a 6mil is more close to real boss fights. I dont disagree with that. This doesnt mean that bretons as a race have more dmg output because they can compete in those fights. They can compete because that nature of the fight doesnt just revolve around raw dmg output but also sustain which is where bretons excel at. Therefore, bretons should be able to compete in those fights. The more irrelevant sustain is in a fight, the better altmers do. The more relevant sustain is in a fight the better bretons will do. Whether the meta revolves around the former or the latter, is irrelevant. Just because altmers are the dmg race it doesnt mean that they should do more dmg in every type of encounter. If altmers could do more dmg in fights where sustain is that much important then there would be naturally no reason to play a breton. What would be the point.
I dont like stamina on altmers any more than you do. I dont give a crap about lore and sh*t but stamina on altmers feels weird even to me. But Im not gonna sit here and spread misinformation about altmers not being the dmg race because someone cant even distinguish the difference between raw dmg output and sustained fights.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454547/dps-data-and-analysis-on-racial-passives-through-all-pts-cycles-updated-with-4-3-1-magplar-data/p1
This are the facts I am following, highly controlled and repeatable parses, yes altmer is slightly ahead of breton as for 4.3.1 and i am eagerly waiting for an update for 4.3.2 than we shall see...
Cool, altmer were slightly ahead of bretons. Just as dunmers were without sustain and worse stats than altmer. So logically altmer will still stay ahead according to those parses or at the very least compete even tho sustain in those parses was very important and couldnt use bi stat food like bretons. So i guess my arguments are indeed supported by facts, no?
Only as of 4.3.1, in 4.3.2 Altmer will lose 96mag regen per second.In 2 minute fight its equivalent of 11500 magica or 4 times in rotation use of spell symmetry. As i said before we shall see...
Yes, i took that into account by looking at dunmers which had worse stats than altmers do now and they were still competing and even beating bretons to some extend.0