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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 6, 2019 3:53PM4 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?
They buffed all racials with stats tied to them, did a stealth rework for Bosmer, made Dunmer closer to Altmer for DPS, almost did a complete rework on orcs again, reworked red diamond and buffed argonians.
All major community concerns after testing. Not bad for a weeks work in my opinion.
Now we wait, sim the new changes, and then we come back here and discuss the results.
^ Completely agree
What wasn't mentioned though is that ZOS also listened to the community with Altmer because when Gilliam made that announcement thread (not even the first patch notes keep in mind) the community went NUTS. "Altmer will be the only race for DPS" "They will be Gods" "Why have other races" Blah blah blah. Then the patch notes hit and players still didn't really wait for the testing to start and were providing feedback already, negative towards Altmer, and then the testing came out and everyone who went nuts was WRONG. (AGAIN)
Problem is ZOS had more negative feedback than positive, I will grant you that most of it was from Gilliam's announcement thread and the first patch notes before testing started but still. They listened but it wasn't the right feedback.3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »TheInfernalRage wrote: »I actually like the changes. But they do need to increase the spell damage in the Altmer in order for them to standout.
This is a must. They currenly have less spell damage AND less sustain than Breton. There is zero reason to use Altmer.
that completely sucks. they were out to make it so altmer stood out with magicka, now they're worthless with it. seems very counterproductive to their initial goal with the racial passive changes. this convinces me they have no idea how their own game works.
Just look at FO76.. bethesda is dead as a company for players. Probably after no financial success with previous high-quality games like Prey and Wolfenstein, sales department runs the show. Free tokens is probably masked way to force people buy adventurer upgrade. I mean if you dont have token, you'll probably will stick with your race if you are not in top guild, 3000 crowns is not a small sum to sacrifice your character. But now as person get "free" tokens, all that left is just to buy adventurer pack which applies to ALL 3 tokens, so looks as a good deal -> clever cash grab.
Whta has to do Bethesa with ESO, besides some logo at the begining?
This is a Zenimax Online game, not a bethesda gameSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
Healers provide sustain if you REALLY care about PVE. Bretons need it so they can better heal and feed resources to DPS, who dont need it.
If you care about PVP then grats you just got an amazing buff in the form of stamina gain.
The real question is why do you even care. If you really wanted to get the top few % of DPS then why would you even be playing Altmer in the first place when Dunmer sims higher.Edited by validifyedneb18_ESO on February 6, 2019 4:39PMEU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Congratulations for 24/7 service on forum,
ZOS knows better and will buff / nerf if they feel.
Your whole argument is invalid, Altmers are still good dps. Try pet magicka sorcer and perform heavy attack in rotation or use group synergy.
You simply want Altmer to over perform as they were from years.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with meEdited by pieratsos on February 6, 2019 5:19PM9 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
There is no situation where an Altmer doesn't need a magicka absorb enchant, so your argument is invalid. Again, actually playing the game helps your argument.7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Congratulations for 24/7 service on forum,
ZOS knows better and will buff / nerf if they feel.
Your whole argument is invalid, Altmers are still good dps. Try pet magicka sorcer and perform heavy attack in rotation or use group synergy.
You simply want Altmer to over perform as they were from years.
I want Altmer to be competitive for top magicka DPS, as they should be in the lore.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 6, 2019 6:12PM6 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭I hope Schick is leaving ZOS to take his expertise elsewhere (*cough* Bethesda), and said elsewhere develops a mage-centric MMO modeled after Elder Scrolls (something like a parallel reality, where Altmer find the Dwemer, and so on and so forth...).
The lore in this game is superficially applied to gameplay, like for example, collecting lore books. What purpose does that serve? None! I wish it did though. I tried with my guild to bridge lore with in-game play, but it never went beyond rewarding players with special items, and indulging in RP. Not really my thing and a pain to manage. Mini-games within game would be awesome that are strictly tied to the lore. You could have a whole slew of lore achievements that would award unique gear, mementos, mounts, or other items.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
There is no situation where an Altmer doesn't need a magicka absorb enchant, so your argument is invalid. Again, actually playing the game helps your argument.
And if every single fight requires sustain and the meta in general revolves around sustain then naturally a race that revolves around sustain should be able to compete or even come up on top. Apparently common sense is not that common for people like you.
Actually using ur brain before u make a post would help ur argument. Nice try. Better luck next time.Edited by pieratsos on February 6, 2019 6:44PM4 -
Sebar80✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like Ben, show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
Also better sustain on dds will allow for more reliable alkosh uptime for the tank, dd without sustain issues will not be starved for synergies on cool downs so more chance for tanks. Recent "great" balance changes caused sorcs to be dead for end game pve resulted in no conduit synergy being present and tanks to have harder time sustaining high alkosh uptime. Few altmers in the group and tank will never see synergy, reducing group dps even further <--feeling from tank point of view
Edited by Sebar80 on February 6, 2019 6:45PMPC EU
PVE
Tanks all classes3 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
There is no situation where an Altmer doesn't need a magicka absorb enchant, so your argument is invalid. Again, actually playing the game helps your argument.
Dude, do you even play PVE at all?EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade4 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
They already stated their design process. The decisions are based on how many set piece bonuses value every race receives.
The only question is, are the five piece set bonus passives actually balanced to begin with? Is seducer set as valuable as Julianos? I think it's close enough.
Which is a flawed way to go about balance since it ignores context.
Higher sustain = higher DPS because you don't need to use sustain glyphs. Their model doesn't capture that.
Not really, at some point sustain becomes just too much and pointless because you're not using as much as you regenerate. Breton is probably over that line already for some classes with strong Regeneration skills, synergies, and passives.
You can never have too much damage. Altmer can still spec into nearly all damage, but will require more skill to use that way.
But then, I exclusively PVP, I don't sit in one place drooling on my keyboard for a dummy parse. Stamina is going to be really useful for blocking and dodging. On an altmer sorc that stamina will fuel dark conversion. It's going to be really good for Cyrodiil.
Would you take Altmer over Dunmer now? I'm thinking the damage is the same really and the added fire resist and burning immunity are nice especially as a vamp.Edited by bardx86 on February 6, 2019 6:52PM2 -
Sebar80✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
There is no situation where an Altmer doesn't need a magicka absorb enchant, so your argument is invalid. Again, actually playing the game helps your argument.
Dude, do you even play PVE at all?
Please define PVE please, are we talking a normal Fungal PVE or a vAS+2 PVE, its important for the perspective at which we should look at this mess...PC EU
PVE
Tanks all classes1 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭How dumb would it be if Redguards got their sustain passive changed so it restored magicka?
Pretty dumb, right? They already weren't over-performing after this balance but were still in a good spot relatively speaking.
In ESO terms, "utility" is code for 'useless in 99% of situations unless you're a tank or healer'.
As it is now, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't continue to use a Dunmer over Altmer (let alone Breton or Khajiit - who are now the clear top two choices depending on class)
Altmer:
2000 Mag
258 Spell damage
Chance to restore. . .stamina
Dunmer:
1875 Mag
258 Spell damage
1875 Stam (Pool for a mag is better than regen especially nearly 2k of said pool)
2310 Flame resist/immune to burn (not huge but makes life as a vampire and getting the 10% recovery easier)
So if you're gonna bring up the 'Utility' argument, the 'Utility' Dark elf brings to the table greatly outpaces Altmer now.
Literally Altmer gives you ~11 more spell power. The extra stam and fire resist is better for survival which means more DPS overall anyways.
OP is correct, this change is nonsense.
IMHO if you don't want Altmer to have sustain that's fine. Give them something unique that at least fits with their lore even if it's small - 1% spell crit chance and 1% spell crit damage or something. It's not gonna break the game, but at least isn't a nerf and isn't lore-breaking and just dumb sounding "Spell recharge" ...restores your stam? dumb.
9 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭How dumb would it be if Redguards got their sustain passive changed so it restored magicka?
Pretty dumb, right? They already weren't over-performing after this balance but were still in a good spot relatively speaking.
In ESO terms, "utility" is code for 'useless in 99% of situations unless you're a tank or healer'.
As it is now, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't continue to use a Dunmer over Altmer (let alone Breton or Khajiit - who are now the clear top two choices depending on class)
Altmer:
2000 Mag
258 Spell damage
Chance to restore. . .stamina
Dunmer:
1875 Mag
258 Spell damage
1875 Stam (Pool for a mag is better than regen especially nearly 2k of said pool)
2310 Flame resist/immune to burn (not huge but makes life as a vampire and getting the 10% recovery easier)
So if you're gonna bring up the 'Utility' argument, the 'Utility' Dark elf brings to the table greatly outpaces Altmer now.
Literally Altmer gives you ~11 more spell power. The extra stam and fire resist is better for survival which means more DPS overall anyways.
OP is correct, this change is nonsense.
IMHO if you don't want Altmer to have sustain that's fine. Give them something unique that at least fits with their lore even if it's small - 1% spell crit chance and 1% spell crit damage or something. It's not gonna break the game, but at least isn't a nerf and isn't lore-breaking and just dumb sounding "Spell recharge" ...restores your stam? dumb.
I was saying add penetration but I like the critical idea as well. Give them something other than stam regen.3 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭I'm gonna love having stamina resources, after all this time wanting to play mostly magicka.
1 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Also I eye-roll at the people who are disregarding OP's POV that there is a cash-grab element to these changes.
ZoS is a business, they aren't here to appease everyone with lore and balance, they are here to make money. Within those bounds are ZoS employees who truly care about making a great game. There are elements of both in every decision they make.
Crowns/Cosmetic shops are the 'pre-owned game' sales of the industry these days - cheap assets you can sell for a hefty profit without spending much to create them. Literally the only reason brick and mortar stores still exist, and literally the only way games like ESO can exist. You throw together one mediocre xanmeer house and sell it for over 100$ real US dollars that it took some level artist a few days to arrange with existing assets.
No diff with race change tokens, it's essentially a zero-cost product. If you think the fact that tokens are offered on the crown store, but are not considered in terms of sweeping race balance you are fooling yourself.
All OP is asking for is some less nonsensical balance changes even if it means they dont sell quite as many tokens. I'm not sure why anyone is arguing against that? Please enlighten me.Edited by Krayl on February 6, 2019 7:08PM5 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Edited by The_Lex on February 6, 2019 7:13PM3 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How dumb would it be if Redguards got their sustain passive changed so it restored magicka?
Pretty dumb, right? They already weren't over-performing after this balance but were still in a good spot relatively speaking.
In ESO terms, "utility" is code for 'useless in 99% of situations unless you're a tank or healer'.
As it is now, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't continue to use a Dunmer over Altmer (let alone Breton or Khajiit - who are now the clear top two choices depending on class)
Altmer:
2000 Mag
258 Spell damage
Chance to restore. . .stamina
Dunmer:
1875 Mag
258 Spell damage
1875 Stam (Pool for a mag is better than regen especially nearly 2k of said pool)
2310 Flame resist/immune to burn (not huge but makes life as a vampire and getting the 10% recovery easier)
So if you're gonna bring up the 'Utility' argument, the 'Utility' Dark elf brings to the table greatly outpaces Altmer now.
Literally Altmer gives you ~11 more spell power. The extra stam and fire resist is better for survival which means more DPS overall anyways.
OP is correct, this change is nonsense.
IMHO if you don't want Altmer to have sustain that's fine. Give them something unique that at least fits with their lore even if it's small - 1% spell crit chance and 1% spell crit damage or something. It's not gonna break the game, but at least isn't a nerf and isn't lore-breaking and just dumb sounding "Spell recharge" ...restores your stam? dumb.
I was saying add penetration but I like the critical idea as well. Give them something other than stam regen.
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.Edited by Lord_Eomer on February 6, 2019 7:10PM0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
penetration won't over-perform it will just let Altmers put their 20-something points into some other CP with vastly diminished returns.Edited by Krayl on February 6, 2019 7:13PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like him show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. Parses clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. Thats a fact. 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Thats also a fact and those facts indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
No, altmers are ahead of bretons in the dmg department. Bretons are ahead in the sustain department. What type of encounter you are facing and which department it favors is a different discussion. There is a big difference between raw dmg output and fights in which sustain is important. Yes a 6mil is more close to real boss fights. I dont disagree with that. This doesnt mean that bretons as a race have more dmg output because they can compete in those fights. They can compete because that nature of the fight doesnt just revolve around raw dmg output but also sustain which is where bretons excel at. Therefore, bretons should be able to compete in those fights. The more irrelevant sustain is in a fight, the better altmers do. The more relevant sustain is in a fight the better bretons will do. Whether the meta revolves around the former or the latter, is irrelevant. Just because altmers are the dmg race it doesnt mean that they should do more dmg in every type of encounter. If altmers could do more dmg in fights where sustain is that much important then there would be naturally no reason to play a breton. What would be the point.
I dont like stamina on altmers any more than you do. I dont give a crap about lore and sh*t but stamina on altmers feels weird even to me. But Im not gonna sit here and spread misinformation about altmers not being the dmg race because someone cant even distinguish the difference between raw dmg output and sustained fights.
Edited by pieratsos on February 6, 2019 7:21PM2 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »How dumb would it be if Redguards got their sustain passive changed so it restored magicka?
Pretty dumb, right? They already weren't over-performing after this balance but were still in a good spot relatively speaking.
In ESO terms, "utility" is code for 'useless in 99% of situations unless you're a tank or healer'.
As it is now, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't continue to use a Dunmer over Altmer (let alone Breton or Khajiit - who are now the clear top two choices depending on class)
Altmer:
2000 Mag
258 Spell damage
Chance to restore. . .stamina
Dunmer:
1875 Mag
258 Spell damage
1875 Stam (Pool for a mag is better than regen especially nearly 2k of said pool)
2310 Flame resist/immune to burn (not huge but makes life as a vampire and getting the 10% recovery easier)
So if you're gonna bring up the 'Utility' argument, the 'Utility' Dark elf brings to the table greatly outpaces Altmer now.
Literally Altmer gives you ~11 more spell power. The extra stam and fire resist is better for survival which means more DPS overall anyways.
OP is correct, this change is nonsense.
IMHO if you don't want Altmer to have sustain that's fine. Give them something unique that at least fits with their lore even if it's small - 1% spell crit chance and 1% spell crit damage or something. It's not gonna break the game, but at least isn't a nerf and isn't lore-breaking and just dumb sounding "Spell recharge" ...restores your stam? dumb.
I was saying add penetration but I like the critical idea as well. Give them something other than stam regen.
No more critical, Khajit already have and it will be not unique buff.
Adding penetration will make Altmer over performing, best is to change Spell Charge, restoring 200 Magicka, 200 Stamina and gives 600 max Health.
I would prefer main stat regen but they seem to not like that idea alto i've had 9% regen for 5 years.0 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like Dunmer buff. At least that spell power apply to all magic and elemental magic. My magsorc is happy, because its a boost to all his attacks.
An increased chance to apply burning status would be a unique feature.Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
There is no situation where an Altmer doesn't need a magicka absorb enchant, so your argument is invalid. Again, actually playing the game helps your argument.
Dude, do you even play PVE at all?
Name one scenario where you don't need an absorb enchant.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.
And if you can run berserker enchant on altmer then altmer has more spell dmg. If you are going to compare their passives then compare their passives. Bringing in other factors is irrelevant with their passives. Bretons are not ahead altmers in dmg. They are just more consistent because they have sustain and if the fight requires sustain that altmers don't have they may fall behind. But in terms of raw dmg output in identical setups, altmer is ahead of Breton.
Altmer can't wear berserker enchant. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. In order to sustain a fight, you need to equip a magicka absorb glyph onto Altmer. It would help your argument if you actually played the game.
The only person who has no idea about what he is talking about is you. You repeat the same nonsense over and over again. You just saw some random parses in a thread and started screaming "omg altmer is trash, look at the parses" but you cant even understand what those parses actually show. Thats how silly this whole argument is, everyone is pointing it out for you and you still dont understand.
I know you really wont understand but im just going to try again anw. DPS is damage per second. It is tested over time. Key word is time. Its a broad term and it doesnt mean 6million self buffed dummy parses. Put it through ur thick skull and stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Bretons compete in those parses because sustain is also important in those parses. And since its important they should be able to compete cause thats the whole freaking point of the race genius. If bretons couldnt shine in the fights that they are supposed to excel at then whats the point of picking the race. This is common sense. Make the fight shorter or give raid sustain buffs and things will quickly change in favor of altmer. If you cant even understand dmg parses and what they represent to be able to judge the performance of different races then you shouldnt use them as an argument.
You choose the enchants depending on the content you are doing. In identical setups altmer has more dmg. Altmer is ahead of breton in the dmg department. Period. Thats a fact and facts dont care about ur feelings. Keep telling urself the opposite and exposing urself for lack of knowledge of basic mechanics. No issue with me
There is no situation where an Altmer doesn't need a magicka absorb enchant, so your argument is invalid. Again, actually playing the game helps your argument.
And if every single fight requires sustain and the meta in general revolves around sustain then naturally a race that revolves around sustain should be able to compete or even come up on top. Apparently common sense is not that common for people like you.
Actually using ur brain before u make a post would help ur argument. Nice try. Better luck next time.
You just proved my point and invalidated your entire argument...0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Because nobody plays magden. There are like 5 of us that post on the forums.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 6, 2019 7:21PM0 -
Krayl✭✭✭✭✭Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. They clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. You know whats also a fact? That 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Those are facts and they indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.
Breton can also use blue food vs. clockwork or witchmothers. giving the benefit of the doubt lets say clockwork. With the CP % now affecting this you're looking at breton picking up another ~169 spell damage.
Add that weap/spell damage enchant, you're looking at +621 spell power for Breton at the cost of whatever the dps from absorb mag enchant is.
And with no recovery and not running a heavy build, you might even need a mag recovery glyph as an altmer whereas a breton can go full spell damage. So there's another +174-278 spell power, depending on infused or not. Those 3 differences are 795-900 spell power.
this is before considering Breton's very useful resist bonus not to mention the fact that blue food means no health glyphs are needed anywhere to have a substantial health pool. I usually have one health enchant on all my non-skoria helmets so i can always predict my health pool. So go ahead and tack on another ~100 spell damage there.
you could literally squeeze nearly 1k extra spell power out of a breton and wind up with roughly the same magicka management as an altmer.
Edited by Krayl on February 6, 2019 7:28PM3 -
Sebar80✭✭✭Love it! Citing a Ben Shapiro favourite quote does not make your feelings to become facts.
If you want to be like him show actual facts, stats, parses or combat metrics statistics to prove your opponents are wrong do not talk about your feelings and pretend these are facts.
Actual facts were already shown in the parses being used as a reference and by simply reading the racials of altmers and bretons. Parses clearly show altmer parses being higher than breton parses even tho they couldnt use a berserker enchant. Difference would be higher if they could also use berserker enchant. Thats a fact. 2k magicka + 250 spell dmg gives more dmg than just 2k magicka. Thats also a fact and those facts indeed dont care about anyone's feelings.Now, under certain circumstances you may be right and altmer will have higher dps than breton, as example Precursor Target Dummy 321.8K health parse. 6 milion dummy takes around 2 minutes and under this conditions Breton is better than altmer in dps department. The key question is which is more close to real fight boss fight situation a 6 sec burst parse or 2 minute 6mil dummy parse. My feeling (not a confirmed fact!) is 6 mil is more close to real boss fight.
No, altmers are ahead of bretons in the dmg department. Bretons are ahead in the sustain department. What type of encounter you are facing and which department it favors is a different discussion. There is a big difference between raw dmg output and fights in which sustain is important. Yes a 6mil is more close to real boss fights. I dont disagree with that. This doesnt mean that bretons as a race have more dmg output because they can compete in those fights. They can compete because that nature of the fight doesnt just revolve around raw dmg output but also sustain which is where bretons excel at. Therefore, bretons should be able to compete in those fights. The more irrelevant sustain is in a fight, the better altmers do. The more relevant sustain is in a fight the better bretons will do. Whether the meta revolves around the former or the latter, is irrelevant. Just because altmers are the dmg race it doesnt mean that they should do more dmg in every type of encounter. If altmers could do more dmg in fights where sustain is that much important then there would be naturally no reason to play a breton. What would be the point.
I dont like stamina on altmers any more than you do. I dont give a crap about lore and sh*t but stamina on altmers feels weird even to me. But Im not gonna sit here and spread misinformation about altmers not being the dmg race because someone cant even distinguish the difference between raw dmg output and sustained fights.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454547/dps-data-and-analysis-on-racial-passives-through-all-pts-cycles-updated-with-4-3-1-magplar-data/p1
This are the facts I am following, highly controlled and repeatable parses, yes altmer is slightly ahead of breton as for 4.3.1 and i am eagerly waiting for an update for 4.3.2 than we shall see...PC EU
PVE
Tanks all classes0