ZOS: Changing Racial identities 5 years in is wrong

zyk · February 2019

Go back to the drawing board. Revise the current system with flat health/mag/stam values. Keep the flavor like the % elemental/melee damage bonuses. Maintain existing racial identities.

Changing the racial identity of characters players have grown attached to over the years is just wrong. *NO ONE* chose Altmer for Stamina sustain. I can't understand what motivated you to use a hatchet when a scalpel was required.

Sabbathius · February 2019

They have to make money somehow. Wrecking peoples' characters (up to 15 of them currently), giving away 3 free race changes, and having people fork over 3,500 Crowns per remaining character that now needs a race change to function properly? That's a pretty nice chunk of change. Not everyone will do it, but I'm guessing enough will. Heck, some guildmates race changed last week...TO ALTMER. I think one of them may have suffered a psychotic break when he saw today's PTS patch notes, he was on Discord, mic is open, but there's just weird noise coming in, and an occasional F-bomb.

martijnlv40 · February 2019

I completely agree with you. Balance them so they will be a bit closer in dps, healing or tanking but don’t change anything fundamental.

JinMori · February 2019

Sabbathius wrote: »

They have to make money somehow. Wrecking peoples' characters (up to 15 of them currently), giving away 3 free race changes, and having people fork over 3,500 Crowns per remaining character that now needs a race change to function properly? That's a pretty nice chunk of change. Not everyone will do it, but I'm guessing enough will. Heck, some guildmates race changed last week...TO ALTMER. I think one of them may have suffered a psychotic break when he saw today's PTS patch notes, he was on Discord, mic is open, but there's just weird noise coming in, and an occasional F-bomb.

They will pay in the long run if this is their model.

If you lose your customer faith in your company, you are done for, and bethesda/zenimax are really doing a poor job lately.

Honestly as it currently stands eso, can kiss my bottom goodbye, i will not stand for such garbage, the constant nerfing, backwards progression, instead of going forward, we are going backwards, and i will not stand for this.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

This whole thing is a cash grab. They took the top-2 magicka DPS races and nerfed them so they aren't useful anymore, knowing full well that 95% of players use them. Now they're going to be swimming in money from race change tokens and Adventurer Pack sales. They can *** right off with this. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Games change.

Racial identities are mostly intact, major concerns like the Bosmer stealth angle have been talked about in the ambassador meeting notes.

Get over yourselves. You just want to be unhappy.

JinMori · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

This whole thing is a cash grab. They took the top-2 magicka DPS races and nerfed them so they aren't useful anymore, knowing full well that 95% of players use them. Now they're going to be swimming in money from race change tokens and Adventurer Pack sales. They can *** right off with this. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

Meh, i don;t think that 95 % of players will stand for this, or use them,or at least i hope so, i think if they pull through with this, there will be a major uproar.

chetter_hummin · February 2019

+for OP. stamina sustain for altmer may have some use in pvp, although even there I would want magicka sustain but is completly useless in PVE. Lore wise and balance wise this change is so wrong. Altmers are known for their high magicka regen not for stamina. Not to say the magicka spell recharge was nice but not even close to 7% reduce cost new master race Breton has

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

JinMori wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

This whole thing is a cash grab. They took the top-2 magicka DPS races and nerfed them so they aren't useful anymore, knowing full well that 95% of players use them. Now they're going to be swimming in money from race change tokens and Adventurer Pack sales. They can *** right off with this. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

Meh, i don;t think that 95 % of players will stand for this, or use them,or at least i hope so, i think if they pull through with this, there will be a major uproar.

I hope enough people leave/take a break from this garbage.

I'm so glad I didn't pre-order Elsweyr. I really wanted to after the first round of PTS changes because I saw Altmer weren't totally useless, but I decided to wait and see if they'd make any ill-advised changes before the patch went live. I'm glad I waited.

JinMori · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Games change.

Racial identities are mostly intact, major concerns like the Bosmer stealth angle have been talked about in the ambassador meeting notes.

Get over yourselves. You just want to be unhappy.

See, this is what i really dislike, some people have the gall to call out other people as basically crybabies, but also, they think that their concerns are better than others even if they have no basis for it, how exactly is your concern about bosmer more important that what has been talked about altmer?

I think people should try to judge things fairly, and not just what impacts them, i bet that you talked about bosmers because you most probably have a bosmer character, so i say this, ifg you do not know exactly what the implications about a change are, you better just be quiet.

Because of this kind of mentality zos has got away with pretty much every single bad change, instead of improving their game, because that actually takes effort, instead of nerfing a few things just to keep the game going.

Mintaka5 · February 2019

I'm so disappointed in this change, because I was learning the dynamics of race tied to attributes, and when I made a breton magsorc, I bought a race change token to switch to high elf. ZOS screwed me twice. I will not buy another race change token. Congratulations on helping me lose more interest in this game, ZOS.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

JinMori wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Games change.

Racial identities are mostly intact, major concerns like the Bosmer stealth angle have been talked about in the ambassador meeting notes.

Get over yourselves. You just want to be unhappy.

See, this is what i really dislike, some people have the gall to call out other people as basically crybabies, but also, they think that their concerns are better than others even if they have no basis for it, how exactly is your concern about bosmer more important that what has been talked about altmer?

I think people should try to judge things fairly, and not just what impacts them, i bet that you talked about bosmers because you most probably have a bosmer character, so i say this, ifg you do not know exactly what the implications about a change are, you better just be quiet.

Because of this kind of mentality zos has got away with pretty much every single bad change, instead of improving their game, because that actually takes effort, instead of nerfing a few things just to keep the game going.

I dont understand, there has been a SMALL nerf to a class.

Its the public TEST server.

They have SHOWN they they are listening to feedback and making changes accordingly.

They even mentioned addressing the issue of race changes before this hits live.

The *** is wrong with you people. Read the damn patch notes, read the meeting notes. Use your damn head and stop immediately jumping to the worst conclusions with not just no evidence, but if anything evidence of the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2019

zyk wrote: »

Go back to the drawing board. Revise the current system with flat health/mag/stam values. Keep the flavor like the % elemental/melee damage bonuses. Maintain existing racial identities.

Changing the racial identity of characters players have grown attached to over the years is just wrong. *NO ONE* chose Altmer for Stamina sustain. I can't understand what motivated you to use a hatchet when a scalpel was required.

They've changed many times in the past. I definitely think they are moving the races to more balanced intent which is a good thing.

zyk · February 2019

I don't have a problem with the new system itself. If the game launched with the proposed Racial system, I would be 100% fine with it.

The problem with the proposed system is that it is too disruptive to a wide range of players -- from players who love PVE stealth gameplay with their favorite Bosmer thieves and assassins to hardcore PVE and PVP players with highly optimized characters who carefully chose each race according to roles and playstyles.

Character building is an essential component to an RPG. Even though I don't RP, I enjoy character building and am attached to several of my characters. I don't want to feel compelled to change their race because ZOS decided to change what they are good at. Even if the race change was free, it would still be disappointing to change the race of a character I've played for almost 5 years.

I understand adjustments must occur to correct imbalance, but ZOS has done far more than that. Arguably, balance and perceived viability will be no different -- just the pecking order will be. It's not like optimal races are currently required to complete any content; BIS races are only relevant to competitive minded players and that will not change.

The problem here is that in addition to necessary balance adjustments, ZOS has made of an array of unnecessary changes that will be detrimental to players.

Chufu · February 2019

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Go back to the drawing board. Revise the current system with flat health/mag/stam values. Keep the flavor like the % elemental/melee damage bonuses. Maintain existing racial identities.

Changing the racial identity of characters players have grown attached to over the years is just wrong. *NO ONE* chose Altmer for Stamina sustain. I can't understand what motivated you to use a hatchet when a scalpel was required.

They've changed many times in the past. I definitely think they are moving the races to more balanced intent which is a good thing.

Yeah it's definetely a step to the good way.

Anyway it's very hard to balance the races. So just make the best of it and well... some races are very close now to eachother so it's actually not a problem to have a different one.

I don't mind anyway, I would never spend real money on those tokens. Everything is orc. Yeah!

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

Mintaka5 wrote: »

I'm so disappointed in this change, because I was learning the dynamics of race tied to attributes, and when I made a breton magsorc, I bought a race change token to switch to high elf. ZOS screwed me twice. I will not buy another race change token. Congratulations on helping me lose more interest in this game, ZOS.

ZOS doesn't seem to realize that this kind of BS will eventually cause them to lose players.

luen79rwb17_ESO · February 2019

Racial rework came too late. On that I agree. But they needed to change them and I think they're on the right direction. No need to go back to the drawing board in my opinon. They just gotta improve on what we're getting now.

Dalsinthus · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Games change.

Racial identities are mostly intact, major concerns like the Bosmer stealth angle have been talked about in the ambassador meeting notes.

Get over yourselves. You just want to be unhappy.

See, this is what i really dislike, some people have the gall to call out other people as basically crybabies, but also, they think that their concerns are better than others even if they have no basis for it, how exactly is your concern about bosmer more important that what has been talked about altmer?

I think people should try to judge things fairly, and not just what impacts them, i bet that you talked about bosmers because you most probably have a bosmer character, so i say this, ifg you do not know exactly what the implications about a change are, you better just be quiet.

Because of this kind of mentality zos has got away with pretty much every single bad change, instead of improving their game, because that actually takes effort, instead of nerfing a few things just to keep the game going.

I dont understand, there has been a SMALL nerf to a class.

Its the public TEST server.

They have SHOWN they they are listening to feedback and making changes accordingly.

They even mentioned addressing the issue of race changes before this hits live.

The *** is wrong with you people. Read the damn patch notes, read the meeting notes. Use your damn head and stop immediately jumping to the worst conclusions with not just no evidence, but if anything evidence of the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming.

Ironic that the example you site - bosmer stealth - is a case where they acknowledge the feedback and completely ignore it. Bosmer have lost all bonuses to stealth.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Racial rework came too late. On that I agree. But they needed to change them and I think they're on the right direction. No need to go back to the drawing board in my opinon. They just gotta improve on what we're getting now.

But that doesn't seem to be their goal.

They had pretty good balance after round 1 of PTS. They just needed to make a few small adjustments to some races. Instead, they took a sledgehammer to random races (not even the ones that were overperforming).

PocketNova · February 2019

I refuse to change, all but 1 of my characters are Altmer (the one that isn't is a little orc). I like the aesthetic and the racials were the best for me for years. All I see them doing right now is wanting money and I refuse to give them any.

Instead of nurfing the top races, I don't know why they still haven't figured out that they need to bring the other's up to par. But I guess when you're blinded by money, nurfing is easier.

BahometZ · February 2019

leeux · February 2019

I do think they should leave race and name change totally unlocked (not requiring tokens) for everyone for the first week after the patch goes live, so to quench the "cash-grab" claims...

I agree with OP that the changes deviates too much from the original identities to just dismiss complains as "But changes are good in the long term, and the results will be a more balanced game" that may be so, but the people that had characters of the races that are suffering the most changes will be worse if they don't change so balance is negative for them, even if the game's average is positive is at the cost of way too many people that could be gone due to this...

And I don't want people to be gone, I hated Morrowind for killing several of my guilds in masse, I don't want for that to happen again.

Kalle_Demos · February 2019

I'm fine with balance and welcome it if needed but the changes here are too disruptive. ZOS knew that their alterations would change gameplay in meaningful ways, hence the free race change tokens. That they also went on sale and now Name Change tokens makes this all look like a plan to monetize balance and try to get players to buy tokens after building on racials for years. I concur with the OP, treating your customers this way is wrong.

Gnortranermara · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

This whole thing is a cash grab. They took the top-2 magicka DPS races and nerfed them so they aren't useful anymore, knowing full well that 95% of players use them. Now they're going to be swimming in money from race change tokens and Adventurer Pack sales. They can *** right off with this. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

If this goes live, they'll be losing my sub and any future business.

I seriously think that business-oriented people have a psychological disorder that inhibits ethical reasoning.

JPcrazysquirrel3 · February 2019

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

This whole thing is a cash grab. They took the top-2 magicka DPS races and nerfed them so they aren't useful anymore, knowing full well that 95% of players use them. Now they're going to be swimming in money from race change tokens and Adventurer Pack sales. They can *** right off with this. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

If this goes live, they'll be losing my sub and any future business.

I seriously think that business-oriented people have a psychological disorder that inhibits ethical reasoning.

I concur. After 5 years of being a loyal supporter, brushing their BS of the last 2 years aside, (and most recently the Murkmire patch) I believe this will be the final straw that broke the camel's back.

Idinuse · February 2019

Sabbathius wrote: »

They have to make money somehow. Wrecking peoples' characters (up to 15 of them currently), giving away 3 free race changes, and having people fork over 3,500 Crowns per remaining character that now needs a race change to function properly? That's a pretty nice chunk of change. Not everyone will do it, but I'm guessing enough will. Heck, some guildmates race changed last week...TO ALTMER. I think one of them may have suffered a psychotic break when he saw today's PTS patch notes, he was on Discord, mic is open, but there's just weird noise coming in, and an occasional F-bomb.

Best part is that after everyone has made the changes using free or bought tokens, they change it back after they've made the projected money from Elsweyr, so they can cash in on CS Race Change Tokens. Again.

The latest changes on PTS reveals how low ZOS view their customers.

Morgul667 · February 2019

You’ve been ZO$$ED

BlueRaven · February 2019

There was zero reason to do a near top to bottom rework of the races. Tweaks? Sure, why not. But this is just a bad idea.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

There was zero reason to do a near top to bottom rework of the races. Tweaks? Sure, why not. But this is just a bad idea.

Their accounting/marketing departments think it was a great idea though.

JinMori · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Games change.

Racial identities are mostly intact, major concerns like the Bosmer stealth angle have been talked about in the ambassador meeting notes.

Get over yourselves. You just want to be unhappy.

See, this is what i really dislike, some people have the gall to call out other people as basically crybabies, but also, they think that their concerns are better than others even if they have no basis for it, how exactly is your concern about bosmer more important that what has been talked about altmer?

I think people should try to judge things fairly, and not just what impacts them, i bet that you talked about bosmers because you most probably have a bosmer character, so i say this, ifg you do not know exactly what the implications about a change are, you better just be quiet.

Because of this kind of mentality zos has got away with pretty much every single bad change, instead of improving their game, because that actually takes effort, instead of nerfing a few things just to keep the game going.

I dont understand, there has been a SMALL nerf to a class.

Its the public TEST server.

They have SHOWN they they are listening to feedback and making changes accordingly.

They even mentioned addressing the issue of race changes before this hits live.

The *** is wrong with you people. Read the damn patch notes, read the meeting notes. Use your damn head and stop immediately jumping to the worst conclusions with not just no evidence, but if anything evidence of the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming.

What? How exactly is the evidence not on our side?

How exactly is making a passive for altmer, a magicka based race, restore stamina a good idea? For pvp? It's still worse than what we had before, also, you didn't address my point, you just said, wtf is wrong with you, this is your whole post summarised.

Honestly, i am just so tired of zos poor balance, and stubbornness on the whole separate pvp from pve, even though it's objectively a good change, all i see, is a company not wanting to make an effort into making a better game, but rather only caring about 2 things, crown store, and dishing out as much content as they can, they don't care about balancing any prior content to the actual power level we are right now, they aren;t willing to create a new mode, and they aren't willing to separate pvp from pve.

In other words, zos isn;t willing to make anything that does not give them money directly, anything that could or could not, although it most certainly would give them money, they don;t seem to be willing, and this shows to me that zos isn't interested in making a really great game.

Your precious feedback comes into one ear, and goes out of the other for the most part, this is the truth, otherwise performance in this game would be much better, they would have separated pvp from pve both of which are undoubtly very good for the overall game.

Vapirko · February 2019

I think the move to flat bonuses over % is to relieve some of the server stress, so in that case I’m all for it. As with the first round of changes I assume this one will also show that classes are within a very small percentage of each other. Some adjustments to builds will be made, you’ll have three race changes to use, and life will go on.