First they came for my class. Then for my spec. And now for my race.

Kalle_Demos · January 2019

EDIT: In terms of lore and racials and all that...isn't Dunmer being good at both weapons and magick (as the change to Ruination implies by bumping Weapon and Spell Damage) also lore-friendly? They're essentially just trading out one lore thinger for another, so I'm not quite sure what the problem is tbh. And if you weren't really relying on those racials to begin with theeeeen...idk, it just seems having passives purely for lore instead of actually contributing to builds seems a little strange to me. Some of it I do find weird, like the whole "lel Bozmurr can detect Stealthed targets bettur even tho that only works in pee-vee-pee hurr hurr", but overall I don't feel like any of the races are being 'stripped of identity' in terms of lore stuff thanks to their passives. And really, does every single game mechanic have to equal lore? Shouldn't the lore come more from actual story and quest stuff and the books you can find all over the place?

Yes, Dunmer are versatile and skilled in both physical combat and Magic but as Elves their innate Magical capacity is a defining trait. Anyone can be a Warrior. Plenty can wield both sword and magic. Few aside from Altmer can match Dunmer is Magical power, especially Destruction Magic. Many of the oldest and most powerful Mages in Tamriel are Dunmer. People are not upset with Dunmer in ESO becoming better warriors but that they are altering and nerfing the Mage aspects in the process, in contrast to stated goals on diversity and lore.

Ruckly · January 2019

Orc got the worst of it. Went from a heavy armor tanking class to a medium armor burst class. 15% experience gain to heavy armor? Why bother when you have the 15% weapon damage multiplier in medium with the mundus stone worth of weapon damage in racial passive. Health recovery gone. No kiting for health recovery. 190 health recovery if you spam weapon skills 100%. 190 stam recovery if you spam weapon skills 100%. Only realistic with a bow. Dinky health and stamina. 10% increased sprint speed.

My Orc is going to play like a bowmancer. Snipe->la->snipe->la->snipe->la->snipe->la->snipe->ad infinitum. Might throw some off speed poison arrows in there. And that is pretty much it. With 25% reduction to poison costs DK passive that is how it plays. Very narrow tunnel vision vision of an orc.

Jamdarius · January 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).

(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).

When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.

I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.

With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.

With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.

Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.

First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".

Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.

Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.

However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.

What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.

But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".

Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.

Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.

I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!

Is it asking too much?

I feel you tho in my case it is Dunmer magDK, for quite a while I just got afraid of each and every patch notes 'cause we mostly received nerfs (to sustain,to whip, to damage) heck I even remember when we just had to slot flames of oblivion and the fireball would cost us nothing ...

cokkto · January 2019

I have the same story as TS.

My dunmer is now a tank with S&B/Frost staff, skilled in both stamina and mana, fully heavy armored, off-tanking some vet trials to work out my tanking skills and gathering some boring achievements till the next year, when the fortune will turn it's face towards us again. Or may be not.

Unless ZOS will notice a huge drop in sorcs population - all tears on forums are futile. So, instead of crying, just quit your character for a while. Even now all sees the prevalence of NBs in PvE, let this prevalence grow even more.

Arrodisia · January 2019

Mr_Walker wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

It's still a difference. It is still imbalanced.

So what? The only solution to this is to have only one race, or no racial passives, at that point it's no longer ES game.

rewritten underneath

Arrodisia · January 2019

Mr_Walker wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

It's still a difference. It is still imbalanced.

So what? The only solution to this is to have only one race, or no racial passives, at that point it's no longer ES game.

I tried to quote another comment as well, where the person went on about meta, and slung some insults at the players, but it said something like "this comment was deleted", and poof the comment was gone, when I tried to quote it again, which really made me scratch my head. Anyway, I don't want to get off topic. So here goes.

Omg how do "some" put their clothes on, if they have difficulty thinking past their own nose?

Can you at least try to look at the whole picture, and how it impacts everyone else? Can you maybe try not thinking only about meta, and how to defend ZOS's lazy balancing and greed for once? Maybe just think about how it impacts other players as well directly and indirectly, which was all explained in this and the countless other threads on this topic.

There are solutions to this, and all of the other problems this brings. Here's one just off the top of my head. They could balance them correctly and evenly for instance. There is zero reason to make the changes otherwise.

The fact still remains. There hasn't been enough parsing done on each race to come to a conclusion yet. At this point this thread is just about trying to force people to believe misinformation. Wait for the real results. It doesn't matter which way it goes. At least we'll have the truth.

In fact, I'm going to head over to PTS and check this out myself. It's seems more reasonable at this point, since "some" of the people, obviously, aren't reading the thread before they comment. Have a nice day all.

The_Yellow_King · January 2019

I have only 3 characters I play. 1 a stamdk orc dps since launch. Cant wait for the changes, I expect to benefit greatly from the added bow damage. 2 a dunmer magblade, scared at first but charts of testing make me not everly concerned. 3. My argonian warden tank. Holy nerf into Oblivion Batman! I'll be race changing this one no doubt about it lol. Argonian tanks are getting absolutely crushed. Probably I'll go nord or imperial, I havent decided yet.

Vahrokh · January 2019

Narvuntien wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

The "evidence" quickly collapsed once someone noticed how the Altmer parse took 4s longer and had 3.4% less crits total (and more).
And this is normal, because parses are not a scientifically repeatable activity. With those numbers all it takes is a tiny lagspike, or a twitching finger, anything, and you easily get 2-3k above or below the math result.

A more scientific approach comes from that other guy, who wonders how it's possible that - everything else being equal, 1250 magicka bonus is yielding the same results as 2000 magicka.
It isn't, in fact.

Non only that. Liko is doing fire spec, petless tests. A large number of sorcs play with pets and as of today pets only scale off magicka. The most popular pet sorc set is explicitly mentioned in the patch notes as "won't receive buffs" either.
Even if pets will receive bonuses from more sources, magicka shall still be one of them. And magicka is reduced on Dunmer. Not even mentioning the simple, math proven fact that the race with more magicka bonus ALSO comes with the most scarce magsorc characteristic: sustain bonus.

The thing you are forgetting here is that Dumner get a hp bonus, For trials DPS need to have about 17K hp or they'll die to some mechanics before they can get healed. Which means dumner can put more into their primary stat and still use witchmother's brew (required for MagDK). As such the gap is much closer than 2K mag.

Also on the PTS Pet no longer scale with Magicka they scale the same as everything else with crit and spell damage now counting.

If the RNG means that dumner can do more dps than an Altmer that means the differences in dps are within the margin of error and therefore functionally the same.

I don't forget. I do hm vMOL, maybe I know. With the current game I have > 18k health.
What happens with your suggestion:

1) About hp bonus:

I will be able to use blue food and get unneeded high health but I get a lot of magicka (awesome for pet builds, especially with Necropotence).
I will use Witchmother Potent Brew or its Gold version and I get more regen (good) BUT less magicka = better sustain but lower damage. In the mean time, an Altmer gets the regen by racial bonus, can use blue food (pet spec, apparently will be popular in the expansion due to pets buffs (mainly done to sell Necromancers) and shall have high regen AND high magicka.

2) About RNG: imagine just a +/-5% difference in parses variation. NBs and stam characters are scores above any magsorc. So, you already have trial leaders looking bad at you. Stam guy does 66k, you do 51k (best players score even higher).
If this doesn't look grim enough, now you have the +/-5%. Altmer can do 53550 DPS or 48450. That's a whopping 5100 DPS difference. When having a bad luck, that difference is huuuuuge, it's like going in the trial without vMA staff and without golden staff plus more.
Now, if the Altmer and Dunmer are put together and Altmer happens to do a bad luck 48450 DPS and Dunmer a lucky 51k, people will create threads like the one you refer to. Too bad, those are useless.
Because the chances of lucking out are far smaller than doing average, therefore in average (100 parses+) the Altmer shall tangibly outDPS Dunmer at fire damage, the niche Dunmer used to excel at in the past.

What happens then? That the guild officers won't focus on the few times the Dunmer lucks out at 51k, but on his average.

Arunei · January 2019

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

EDIT: In terms of lore and racials and all that...isn't Dunmer being good at both weapons and magick (as the change to Ruination implies by bumping Weapon and Spell Damage) also lore-friendly? They're essentially just trading out one lore thinger for another, so I'm not quite sure what the problem is tbh. And if you weren't really relying on those racials to begin with theeeeen...idk, it just seems having passives purely for lore instead of actually contributing to builds seems a little strange to me. Some of it I do find weird, like the whole "lel Bozmurr can detect Stealthed targets bettur even tho that only works in pee-vee-pee hurr hurr", but overall I don't feel like any of the races are being 'stripped of identity' in terms of lore stuff thanks to their passives. And really, does every single game mechanic have to equal lore? Shouldn't the lore come more from actual story and quest stuff and the books you can find all over the place?

Yes, Dunmer are versatile and skilled in both physical combat and Magic but as Elves their innate Magical capacity is a defining trait. Anyone can be a Warrior. Plenty can wield both sword and magic. Few aside from Altmer can match Dunmer is Magical power, especially Destruction Magic. Many of the oldest and most powerful Mages in Tamriel are Dunmer. People are not upset with Dunmer in ESO becoming better warriors but that they are altering and nerfing the Mage aspects in the process, in contrast to stated goals on diversity and lore.

I can understand that but only to a point, since again (imo at least) ZOS is just trading out one lore thing for another. And like I said, does every mechanic in a game have to equal lore? I do agree that the passives should, since they're race-locked and all, reflect to an extent on the race they belong to, but for the most part they still do. Dunmer are still being represented by their lore with the resistance to Fire damage and immunity to Burning, Argonians are still immune to being Disased, and so on and so forth. Some of the changes may be, ah...let's say *strange* to be polite, but I don't feel as though any race is losing any part of their integral lore with the changes that are being introduced on PTS.

zaria · January 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

The "evidence" quickly collapsed once someone noticed how the Altmer parse took 4s longer and had 3.4% less crits total (and more).
And this is normal, because parses are not a scientifically repeatable activity. With those numbers all it takes is a tiny lagspike, or a twitching finger, anything, and you easily get 2-3k above or below the math result.

A more scientific approach comes from that other guy, who wonders how it's possible that - everything else being equal, 1250 magicka bonus is yielding the same results as 2000 magicka.
It isn't, in fact.

Non only that. Liko is doing fire spec, petless tests. A large number of sorcs play with pets and as of today pets only scale off magicka. The most popular pet sorc set is explicitly mentioned in the patch notes as "won't receive buffs" either.
Even if pets will receive bonuses from more sources, magicka shall still be one of them. And magicka is reduced on Dunmer. Not even mentioning the simple, math proven fact that the race with more magicka bonus ALSO comes with the most scarce magsorc characteristic: sustain bonus.

The thing you are forgetting here is that Dumner get a hp bonus, For trials DPS need to have about 17K hp or they'll die to some mechanics before they can get healed. Which means dumner can put more into their primary stat and still use witchmother's brew (required for MagDK). As such the gap is much closer than 2K mag.

Also on the PTS Pet no longer scale with Magicka they scale the same as everything else with crit and spell damage now counting.

If the RNG means that dumner can do more dps than an Altmer that means the differences in dps are within the margin of error and therefore functionally the same.

I don't forget. I do hm vMOL, maybe I know. With the current game I have > 18k health.
What happens with your suggestion:

1) About hp bonus:
I will be able to use blue food and get unneeded high health but I get a lot of magicka (awesome for pet builds, especially with Necropotence).

I will use Witchmother Potent Brew or its Gold version and I get more regen (good) BUT less magicka = better sustain but lower damage. In the mean time, an Altmer gets the regen by racial bonus, can use blue food (pet spec, apparently will be popular in the expansion due to pets buffs (mainly done to sell Necromancers) and shall have high regen AND high magicka.

2) About RNG: imagine just a +/-5% difference in parses variation. NBs and stam characters are scores above any magsorc. So, you already have trial leaders looking bad at you. Stam guy does 66k, you do 51k (best players score even higher).
If this doesn't look grim enough, now you have the +/-5%. Altmer can do 53550 DPS or 48450. That's a whopping 5100 DPS difference. When having a bad luck, that difference is huuuuuge, it's like going in the trial without vMA staff and without golden staff plus more.
Now, if the Altmer and Dunmer are put together and Altmer happens to do a bad luck 48450 DPS and Dunmer a lucky 51k, people will create threads like the one you refer to. Too bad, those are useless.
Because the chances of lucking out are far smaller than doing average, therefore in average (100 parses+) the Altmer shall tangibly outDPS Dunmer at fire damage, the niche Dunmer used to excel at in the past.

What happens then? That the guild officers won't focus on the few times the Dunmer lucks out at 51k, but on his average.

Did an post on the 25 parse test.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5761597/#Comment_5761597
You problem is not beeing Dunmer but magDK who suck duck, an bosmer magblade would out dps you.
stamdk is better. Fortunately that is easy now. Imagine how that would worked with the old racials if they nerfed DK.

And 5% is larger than no racial skill like an Bosmer magblade against bis. its also larger than the Khajiit crit build with bad luck on warhorn, see first page in that tread.

drkfrontiers · January 2019

One could almost be fooled into thinking the developers determine skill/ ability & class changes when its actually sales and marketing XD.

Vahrokh · January 2019

Arunei wrote: »

EDIT: In terms of lore and racials and all that...isn't Dunmer being good at both weapons and magick (as the change to Ruination implies by bumping Weapon and Spell Damage) also lore-friendly? They're essentially just trading out one lore thinger for another, so I'm not quite sure what the problem is tbh. And if you weren't really relying on those racials to begin with theeeeen...idk, it just seems having passives purely for lore instead of actually contributing to builds seems a little strange to me. Some of it I do find weird, like the whole "lel Bozmurr can detect Stealthed targets bettur even tho that only works in pee-vee-pee hurr hurr", but overall I don't feel like any of the races are being 'stripped of identity' in terms of lore stuff thanks to their passives. And really, does every single game mechanic have to equal lore? Shouldn't the lore come more from actual story and quest stuff and the books you can find all over the place?

It is good at both weapons and magick even today but not best. With certain builds and sets (fire) or classes (DK) it was best.

After patch, it's still being debated if it's still as good or worse, but now it's not best any more, in any situation or spec.

When you have your "I am not best in this situation but I can be in this other" card, it's easier to be accepted. When you are just average, people just tell you to respec / reroll.

Vahrokh · January 2019

Arunei wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

EDIT: In terms of lore and racials and all that...isn't Dunmer being good at both weapons and magick (as the change to Ruination implies by bumping Weapon and Spell Damage) also lore-friendly? They're essentially just trading out one lore thinger for another, so I'm not quite sure what the problem is tbh. And if you weren't really relying on those racials to begin with theeeeen...idk, it just seems having passives purely for lore instead of actually contributing to builds seems a little strange to me. Some of it I do find weird, like the whole "lel Bozmurr can detect Stealthed targets bettur even tho that only works in pee-vee-pee hurr hurr", but overall I don't feel like any of the races are being 'stripped of identity' in terms of lore stuff thanks to their passives. And really, does every single game mechanic have to equal lore? Shouldn't the lore come more from actual story and quest stuff and the books you can find all over the place?

Yes, Dunmer are versatile and skilled in both physical combat and Magic but as Elves their innate Magical capacity is a defining trait. Anyone can be a Warrior. Plenty can wield both sword and magic. Few aside from Altmer can match Dunmer is Magical power, especially Destruction Magic. Many of the oldest and most powerful Mages in Tamriel are Dunmer. People are not upset with Dunmer in ESO becoming better warriors but that they are altering and nerfing the Mage aspects in the process, in contrast to stated goals on diversity and lore.

I can understand that but only to a point, since again (imo at least) ZOS is just trading out one lore thing for another. And like I said, does every mechanic in a game have to equal lore? I do agree that the passives should, since they're race-locked and all, reflect to an extent on the race they belong to, but for the most part they still do. Dunmer are still being represented by their lore with the resistance to Fire damage and immunity to Burning, Argonians are still immune to being Disased, and so on and so forth. Some of the changes may be, ah...let's say *strange* to be polite, but I don't feel as though any race is losing any part of their integral lore with the changes that are being introduced on PTS.

Have you entered VVardenfell? A whole expansion detailing those pesky Dark Elf Magisters being so adept and powerful in magick that they studied in their own towers and so on.

Aaaaannnd... here we go: wiped the slate clean. Now Dark Elves are your average magicka runt.

Does this sound credible in any way or form?

We play a RP and lore rich MMO or a new, free to play, general mashup mobile game, with bunnies, orcs and unicorns all tossed together?

Spoiler: we have a "Telvanni Magister personality". Anyone can see any affinity between Dark Elf and magicka?
Still waiting on "Khajiit Magister personality".

Mr_Walker · January 2019

Well, people complain about power creep, then they complain when zos nerfs whole classes to make them less powerful. Blind Freddie could have seen it coming but nooooo, when you say that on the forums people react like you're doing card tricks for a dog.

Here's an idea. I know it's radical, but stick with me... try thinking about the consequences of what you ask for before hitting the "reply" button!

A big ask, I know.

alanmatillab16_ESO · January 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).

(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).

When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.

I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.

With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.

With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.

Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.

First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".

Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.

Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.

However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.

What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.

But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".

Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.

Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.

I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!

Is it asking too much?

If you were that attached to your character it wouldn't make a difference. You are still a Dark Elf Fire using DPS caster. Your complaint has nothing to do with attachment to your character it is more to do with attachment to damage meters. Ironically it is that attachment is what leads to the class homogenisation which you complain about.

Androconium · January 2019

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

The OP invested a lot of time into explaining that this was about the UX of playing a lore-based character.

Feel free to disregard that.

Does 'most groups' mean that you don't really know?

The real point of this, is that zos want you to reinvest time in relearning. Maybe you will renew your subscription?

I know I won't.

Amphithoe · January 2019

Vahrokh · January 2019

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).

(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).

When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.

I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.

With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.

With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.

Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.

First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".

Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.

Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.

However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.

What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.

But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".

Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.

Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.

I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!

Is it asking too much?

If you were that attached to your character it wouldn't make a difference. You are still a Dark Elf Fire using DPS caster. Your complaint has nothing to do with attachment to your character it is more to do with attachment to damage meters. Ironically it is that attachment is what leads to the class homogenisation which you complain about.

Not at all.

I would simply not play ESO at all if in 2014 it did not provide a nice and viable Dark Elf class. It's that simple. So all your deductions about being attached to anything would not apply. Furthermore, races are traditionally a "one way deal", in the sense that you pick it, you keep it. I thought about my race very well when I started, it's like when you have to signup a contract. I carefully picked race appropriate names to match the lore (where are my free five name change tokens). You don't get a "sorry, you are having a too good deal I want to unilaterally change it now". As a further point, even in the future, race changing is not something like a simple re-spec: "lol dude, adapt and overcome". You'll have to pay cash for it. What if in 6 months ZOS decides that Argonians are the ultimate magicka DPS race, Khajiit magicka tanks, Orcs magicka healers and templars best at stamina DPS? It sounds dumb, and it is dumb. Like making the "Dunmer Telvanni Magister" race "just an health bonus affair".
Not true. Horizontal scaling (compared to WoW's vertical scaling based on gear tiers and resets) is not about homogenisation but about giving different paths and choices. It seems similar, but it's not. With the current system I can choose to be second best in general magicka tasks and best in a niche. Ideally, over time, ZOS should add new niches where people would invest a lot of time in (= money for ZOS) and become best at something specific. With the new changes, we get less niches, more homogenisation, less flavour.

radiostar · January 2019

Maybe Z should have created a "Role Spirit" for group roles, like battle spirit or 1 Tamriel buffer, instead of passive changes. Or maybe this is the precursor for it (step one).

SpiderCultist · January 2019

I somehow agree with you, they should refund us all the tokens we've already pursached

but I won't stop playing my dark elf, that is sacrilege

Yamenstein · January 2019

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Isnt there a topic somewhere above here about Dunmer doing more dps than Altmer? Think we can end this discussion now!

Can't do this. It's not MORE fire damage !

SkoobySnaxx · January 2019

its ok i feel like zos is out to get me too. First i hopped in the band wagon and started using rune cage and made a op magsorc build. Rune cage gets nerfed. Then i made a stamsorc spin to win with speed pots, forward momentum, and overload bar. All 3 got nerfed. I started playing mag sorc again. Magsorc gets a fat nerf. Now all i do is farm telvar stones. ZOS is making IC a campaign for easy access to zergs. THEN now i group play and i made a rapid spammer build with ulti gen for negate. Rapids gets nerfed (in the future) FKN RIP.
I am now making a stam warden spin to win build for pvp group play. MARK MY WORDS i BET theyre gonna nerf that class next.

ZonasArch · January 2019

SkoobySnaxx wrote: »

its ok i feel like zos is out to get me too. First i hopped in the band wagon and started using rune cage and made a op magsorc build. Rune cage gets nerfed. Then i made a stamsorc spin to win with speed pots, forward momentum, and overload bar. All 3 got nerfed. I started playing mag sorc again. Magsorc gets a fat nerf. Now all i do is farm telvar stones. ZOS is making IC a campaign for easy access to zergs. THEN now i group play and i made a rapid spammer build with ulti gen for negate. Rapids gets nerfed (in the future) FKN RIP.
I am now making a stam warden spin to win build for pvp group play. MARK MY WORDS i BET theyre gonna nerf that class next.

It's all on you for being a bandwagon jumper! You answered your own mystery in the second line. Will go further and say that you, meta chasers, deserve this. You'll always be one step behind, always being stepped on, because you're always chasing, never getting ahead. It's your own fault for only ever wanting to be op for the easy wins, so there you have it... You'll always be, ironically enough, chased by the devs! 😂

Tan9oSuccka · January 2019

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

Sounds like someone triggered a member of the BiS Cult of the Church of Meta.

Hah!! That would be a great guild name.

“Triggered Church of Meta”

IzzyStardust · January 2019

Mistype