Ice Conjuror's Set Balance Discussion/Tooltip Bragging Competition

jaws343 · January 2019

I personally like that this set can be controlled somewhat for proccing. Back barring it and running ele drain back bar would be the easiest way. It does seem a bit strong. But, increasing the duration could pose more problems. With a 12 second cooldown, you have 8 seconds of downtime before the set can proc again once it runs its 4 seconds. So a 30% uptime. If you bump that to 8 seconds, you are looking at a 50% uptime, and at 10 seconds an 83% uptime. Without bumping the cooldown, bumping the duration means this set will be on an opponent with nearly no cooldown. And if you increase the cooldown, you the set becomes much less useful. 12 seconds is a long time, and in many fights you will have less time than that to kill an opponent.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

Transairion wrote: »

Aren't sets like Flame Blossom and Mad Tinkerer similar but kind of worthless to run due to being slow and inaccurate? Not sure I've ever seen Flame Blossom used by anyone, and Mad Tinkerer is only used in PvP for abusing CC on other players.

Ice Conjuror has non-reflectable going for it I suppose, but a giant tooltip is kinda meaningless when it misses an immobile target. Yes the above sets are that inaccurate due to how that spawn in and fire off.

I'm glad there is more Frost DPS options at least, but it really hurts me to have a set called Icy Conjuror and NOT have it be the magicka equivalent to Morkuldin:

(5 items) When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy attack, you have a 10% chance to summon an animated weapon to attack your enemies for 15 seconds. The animated weapon's basic attack deals 4551 Physical Damage

We're still don't have a 5pc Magicka pet/summon by the way ZOS, it's been years now. This could've been the one, just had to the Wraith pet deal Frost damage and have a %chance to apply Chilled.

those sets are line-based single targets/aoes. i tested it. The wraith follows people if they run around.

Adenoma · January 2019

Can they dodge the ice?

Transairion · January 2019

those sets are line-based single targets/aoes. i tested it. The wraith follows people if they run around.

That's different to how I imagined but thanks for confirming! However... we had a set that worked like that since Morrowind:

5 Items) When you deal Critical Damage, you have an [8%] chance to summon a Hunger that spews poison to all enemies in front of it, dealing [9999] Poison Damage and stunning enemies hit for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

As far as I know even after improvements it can be pretty easily avoided/outran until it just flat out expires, is the Wraith anything like that?

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

Transairion wrote: »

those sets are line-based single targets/aoes. i tested it. The wraith follows people if they run around.

That's different to how I imagined but thanks for confirming! However... we had a set that worked like that since Morrowind:

5 Items) When you deal Critical Damage, you have an [8%] chance to summon a Hunger that spews poison to all enemies in front of it, dealing [9999] Poison Damage and stunning enemies hit for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

As far as I know even after improvements it can be pretty easily avoided/outran until it just flat out expires, is the Wraith anything like that?

it doesn't say it's got a time. it could probably last forever if you ran fast enough lol.

MrTtheDK · January 2019

@Glory Seems great and well balanced to me. No further changes or adjustment required. Going to work great with winterborn and Blackrose Ice Destro on my Warden.

EDIT: I am sure you will be able to easily avoid the proc while Ice Wall and Permafrost is firing off at the same time.

Olupajmibanan · January 2019

Am I getting the set correctly?
A wraith spawns at users location.
Then it charges to the enemy.
After the collision (this is dodgeable) the enemy is afflicted with a DoT that lasts 4 seconds (this is purgeable).

If so, can the wraith be targeted and then CC-ed or killed?

I am not really convinced by this set. Remember Zaan? We all thought that it will be total PvP killer. And the truth is that we rarely see someone wearing Zaan in Battlegrounds, and if we do it's not causing much trouble.

Adenoma · January 2019

Who rarely sees zaan?

Sarousse · January 2019

Who cares. I'll just equip the new purge set and wreck his face.

NBrookus · January 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Am I getting the set correctly?
A wraith spawns at users location.
Then it charges to the enemy.
After the collision (this is dodgeable) the enemy is afflicted with a DoT that lasts 4 seconds (this is purgeable).

If so, can the wraith be targeted and then CC-ed or killed?

I am not really convinced by this set. Remember Zaan? We all thought that it will be total PvP killer. And the truth is that we rarely see someone wearing Zaan in Battlegrounds, and if we do it's not causing much trouble.

Zaan ain't rare.

The Wraith cannot be targeted. You can dodge it.

Carbonised · January 2019

I love how they nerfed Flame Blossom to complete uselessness before even releasing it, then release something so stupid as this.

Why can't Flame Blossom, which has less of a tooltop than this set, have directed procing while this set can have directional procing??

Also enough with the "can't be reflected" cr@p. What's the point of one class relying on reflection for defense, when you keep adding stuff that can't be reflected?? Sloads, this set, warden's birds and winter blast and a ton of other stuff. Play by your own rules, will you!

sharquez · January 2019

Carbonised wrote: »

I love how they nerfed Flame Blossom to complete uselessness before even releasing it, then release something so stupid as this.

Why can't Flame Blossom, which has less of a tooltop than this set, have directed procing while this set can have directional procing??

Also enough with the "can't be reflected" cr@p. What's the point of one class relying on reflection for defense, when you keep adding stuff that can't be reflected?? Sloads, this set, warden's birds and winter blast and a ton of other stuff. Play by your own rules, will you!

I mean flame blossom certainly is out performed by the set in terms of raw single target damage but I've had success using it. It fairly accurately fires at the player you proceed it on and hits them if they are not watching for it. Even if it doesn't hit that player it will hit the chumps next to/behind them. Lets see what happens if this goes live. Its like Zos said "Okay you want ICE DPS well here it is!"

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

Adenoma wrote: »

Can they dodge the ice?

yeah

Carbonised wrote: »

I love how they nerfed Flame Blossom to complete uselessness before even releasing it, then release something so stupid as this.

Why can't Flame Blossom, which has less of a tooltop than this set, have directed procing while this set can have directional procing??

Also enough with the "can't be reflected" cr@p. What's the point of one class relying on reflection for defense, when you keep adding stuff that can't be reflected?? Sloads, this set, warden's birds and winter blast and a ton of other stuff. Play by your own rules, will you!

Arctic blast's only good quality is that it goes through reflect lol. they completely destroyed the skill.

Carbonised · January 2019

sharquez wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I love how they nerfed Flame Blossom to complete uselessness before even releasing it, then release something so stupid as this.

Why can't Flame Blossom, which has less of a tooltop than this set, have directed procing while this set can have directional procing??

Also enough with the "can't be reflected" cr@p. What's the point of one class relying on reflection for defense, when you keep adding stuff that can't be reflected?? Sloads, this set, warden's birds and winter blast and a ton of other stuff. Play by your own rules, will you!

I mean flame blossom certainly is out performed by the set in terms of raw single target damage but I've had success using it. It fairly accurately fires at the player you proceed it on and hits them if they are not watching for it. Even if it doesn't hit that player it will hit the chumps next to/behind them. Lets see what happens if this goes live. Its like Zos said "Okay you want ICE DPS well here it is!"

I don't think you know how this set works. Flame Blossom procs the way YOUR character is facing at the moment of proc, it does not proc in the direction of any hostile player or mob. And if you happen to get knocked back, even a little, it procs out of your rear end instead of out the front. Sure, if you're smack in the middle of a zerg you will hit something, but procing it against a single player or 2 is next to impossible, especially if you're facing bunny hoppers.

Sorry to say but you are dead wrong. this set is next to impossible to use even against mobs, let alone players, unless they just stand in front of you like a zombie.

This set homes in like a seeking missile, and has a much larger tooltip and a controlled proc. This set is a hundred times better than flame blossom.

NateS4 · January 2019

Anyone mind posting a video of the set in action? Console pleb here.

Thorstienn · January 2019

NateS4 wrote: »

Anyone mind posting a video of the set in action? Console pleb here.

Its literally an ice wraith that just travels to the enemy ( not alow, not fast) then disappears in a little frost cloud explosion thing.

Sorry dont have access to video.

Thorstienn · January 2019

I get a 36k tooltip on my PvE warden. The set is sadly disappointing in PvE, specifically on the class (warden) that makes most sense to get it.

I took my character into cyro and just controlled Ele drain on to ppl I saw, it did not seem like a big deal; the 9k tick was massively reduced.

As pressures burst in a build built around this set, I can see ppl hating it, but a longer proc tine would probably fix that.

Reducing its overall strength would just make it a deconstruct set.

sharquez · January 2019

Carbonised wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

I love how they nerfed Flame Blossom to complete uselessness before even releasing it, then release something so stupid as this.

Why can't Flame Blossom, which has less of a tooltop than this set, have directed procing while this set can have directional procing??

Also enough with the "can't be reflected" cr@p. What's the point of one class relying on reflection for defense, when you keep adding stuff that can't be reflected?? Sloads, this set, warden's birds and winter blast and a ton of other stuff. Play by your own rules, will you!

I mean flame blossom certainly is out performed by the set in terms of raw single target damage but I've had success using it. It fairly accurately fires at the player you proceed it on and hits them if they are not watching for it. Even if it doesn't hit that player it will hit the chumps next to/behind them. Lets see what happens if this goes live. Its like Zos said "Okay you want ICE DPS well here it is!"

I don't think you know how this set works. Flame Blossom procs the way YOUR character is facing at the moment of proc, it does not proc in the direction of any hostile player or mob. And if you happen to get knocked back, even a little, it procs out of your rear end instead of out the front. Sure, if you're smack in the middle of a zerg you will hit something, but procing it against a single player or 2 is next to impossible, especially if you're facing bunny hoppers.

Sorry to say but you are dead wrong. this set is next to impossible to use even against mobs, let alone players, unless they just stand in front of you like a zombie.

This set homes in like a seeking missile, and has a much larger tooltip and a controlled proc. This set is a hundred times better than flame blossom.

I would hope i know how it works considering I've been using it. I've seen it shoot out at odd angles now and again but it always moves in a straight line and generally towards the thing i was trying to kill even if it was dodging or side stepping. I'll have to watch it more carefully to make sure I'm not shooting flames out of my ass.

That said until then thanks for letting me know how dead wrong I am about my personal success with it. Ill be sure to whisper the other player that supposedly died to it that they should get up and they aren't actually dead.

I will totally agree though that I would take this monstrous proc set over flame blossom anyday.

Xsorus · January 2019

Thorstienn wrote: »

I get a 36k tooltip on my PvE warden. The set is sadly disappointing in PvE, specifically on the class (warden) that makes most sense to get it.

I took my character into cyro and just controlled Ele drain on to ppl I saw, it did not seem like a big deal; the 9k tick was massively reduced.

As pressures burst in a build built around this set, I can see ppl hating it, but a longer proc tine would probably fix that.

Reducing its overall strength would just make it a deconstruct set.

I keep trying to point out simple things to people like this but they never listen, 30k tooltip on a dot set means it’s going to do around 2k damage per tick on a 10+ second cooldown

JPcrazysquirrel3 · January 2019

Xsorus wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

I get a 36k tooltip on my PvE warden. The set is sadly disappointing in PvE, specifically on the class (warden) that makes most sense to get it.

I took my character into cyro and just controlled Ele drain on to ppl I saw, it did not seem like a big deal; the 9k tick was massively reduced.

As pressures burst in a build built around this set, I can see ppl hating it, but a longer proc tine would probably fix that.

Reducing its overall strength would just make it a deconstruct set.

I keep trying to point out simple things to people like this but they never listen, 30k tooltip on a dot set means it’s going to do around 2k damage per tick on a 10+ second cooldown

In other words, most people on the forums can't math?

No wonder they scream and shout for nerfs!

Vapirko · January 2019

MrTtheDK wrote: »

@Glory Seems great and well balanced to me. No further changes or adjustment required. Going to work great with winterborn and Blackrose Ice Destro on my Warden.

EDIT: I am sure you will be able to easily avoid the proc while Ice Wall and Permafrost is firing off at the same time.

This guy gets it. Just dodge it. 35k tooltip over 4 seconds while you're being hit with a balorgh boosted permafrost snare/stun and minor vulnerably from shock clench? No prob dude, like wtf is like everyone even so worried about? Throw a snipe ganker in there for good measure, maybe the arrow will go awry in the permafrost winds.

Bazeric · January 2019

If they are going to look at it they should know that it is only buffed by spell penetration, minor berserk and CP. Major Sorcery, Max Magicka pool increase are not buffing it for me. So make it work correct and then balance the numbers. I seem to have forgotten how procs are calculated.(Seems to be true of the other set too, Aurora's Thunder)

Buffs working:
Warden Passives: Advance Species | Piercing Cold
Skill Based: Minor Berserk
Stats: Increasing Spell Penetration

Buffs Not Working:
Major Sorcery, increasing max magicka pool, increasing spell damage

Bonus fact:
It procs Winterborn

labambao · January 2019

I am deal with it. Wrath is slow, it's dodgeable and blockable, if you use cloak it's just dissappear. Is it purgeable? Looks like not
Btw for some reason minor maim that shadowrend do don't trigger wrath. But riposte do.

Konstant_Tel_Necris · January 2019

Carbonised wrote: »

I love how they nerfed Flame Blossom to complete uselessness before even releasing it, then release something so stupid as this.

Why can't Flame Blossom, which has less of a tooltop than this set, have directed procing while this set can have directional procing??

Also enough with the "can't be reflected" cr@p. What's the point of one class relying on reflection for defense, when you keep adding stuff that can't be reflected?? Sloads, this set, warden's birds and winter blast and a ton of other stuff. Play by your own rules, will you!

Perhaps because Flame Blossom affect more than one target and proc simply form doing damage and fire damage is best damage in game while Ice DPS really need something useful besides just two sets in game?

But I agree that's numbers are quite high perhaps prolonging DoT time from more than 4 seconds will make set more balanced.

BreakingBats · January 2019

Someone post a video of it ffs. I swear you pc people take the pts server for granted. Consoles don't have access and always get shafted by ZoS anyways, yet you guys can't even post a damn clip of it in action.

Minor rage moment but c'mon ya'll throw us a damn bone.

Ocelot9x · January 2019

BreakingBats wrote: »

Someone post a video of it ffs. I swear you pc people take the pts server for granted. Consoles don't have access and always get shafted by ZoS anyways, yet you guys can't even post a damn clip of it in action.

Minor rage moment but c'mon ya'll throw us a damn bone.

Here you go my dear peasant brother (I play on PS4 eu, got the video on discord)

https://youtu.be/-UISxV7WU94

Last duel he’s wearing te icy boi.
3 proc sets,leap hitting for less than skoria but still completely destroyed the opponent using 1 dot 1 cc 1 damage skill.
If you defend proc sets you’re an hypocrite, probably wearing 2/3 of them and forgot how to play this game.

BreakingBats · January 2019

Ocelot9x wrote: »

BreakingBats wrote: »

Someone post a video of it ffs. I swear you pc people take the pts server for granted. Consoles don't have access and always get shafted by ZoS anyways, yet you guys can't even post a damn clip of it in action.

Minor rage moment but c'mon ya'll throw us a damn bone.

Here you go my dear peasant brother (I play on PS4 eu, got the video on discord)

https://youtu.be/-UISxV7WU94

Last duel he’s wearing te icy boi.
3 proc sets,leap hitting for less than skoria but still completely destroyed the opponent using 1 dot 1 cc 1 damage skill.
If you defend proc sets you’re an hypocrite, probably wearing 2/3 of them and forgot how to play this game.

Thanks bud, appreciate it.

Joosef_Kivikilpi · January 2019

I'm actually excited... And that excitement only comes from this dlc giving ice mages, not just Warden ice mages, the ability for some really cool ice sets. I play an Elementalist, so I use fire, ice, and lightning sets for my a build style, and all I've ever been able to use for ice is Ice heart. Excited for the new lightning set as well. Overwhelming Surge... Is definitely a bit underwhelming.

ScruffyWhiskers · January 2019

I learned an important lesson in real life long ago. The world is fundamentally unfair. No wait. The world has a fixed rule set. You may not like it but you can't change the laws of physics. You can't change the social dynamics that create bank runs, stock market crashes, witch burnings or zergs. Given that. If you can't beat them, join them and sing a dirge while the world burns. Don't worry some fools will start over and build it all up again.

Elusiin · January 2019

ak_pvp wrote: »

Why is it non reflectable. I *** bet it'd cloakable, dodgable, and the damage is purgable. But nope dks ignored.

Whack.

Because reflect is a broken mechanic, and we need more counters to it.