soon religion beliefs?

Nestor wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.

Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.

The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.

You cant speak for all of the community. But to give you smth to think about: democracy for example doesnt mean that we all share 1 opinion, it means to live with different opinions. Thats not falling over ourselfs. Thats discussion. I just dont like when discussions are talked down or ppl getting told: just adapt. Ofc its not the end of the world. Nobody said that. But it doesnt mean everybody has to be a personification of willingless adaption.

Anyway... this is going to far for me now. I said enough.

Turelus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.

The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.

If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.

There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.

So you're telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just

Turelus wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

shaielzafine wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.

The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.

If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.

There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.

So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.

If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.

Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.

Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.

Your answer is basically "just because". Again, ehy should he / we have to change race when zos doesn't solve the "problem" they identified to begin with? This is all artificial need. You know what I noticed? Buffs to Khajiit racial passives, right after the announcement for Elsweyr Khajiit Homeland expansion, same time the race change tokens went on discount in the crown store, and I also noticed some moon sugar Khajiit costumes highlighted in the store too. Yes, there are balancing problems in this game, and thankfully they are trying out a new combat design team, but they are also pushing sales for digital items like race change tokens. This shouldn't be necessary. We should be able to play the game the way we want to play, with no race overperforming over another in doing certain roles.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

shaielzafine wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.

The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.

If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.

There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.

So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.

If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.

I don't think its a another debate all together.

ZOS implemented much needed racial passive updates. We all know some races suffered from lackluster passives.
ZOS then monetized that much needed racial passive update.

They didn't have to.
They could have offered free race changes, understanding that they are upending the way things have been for a long time, in some cases stripping out passive bonuses that have been there more or less from the beginning.
They could have offered Name changes, knowing that lore is important and people often named their characters in accordance with race.
They've offered the wholly inadequate one free Race change token, which I note, doesn't include a name change.

In short, ZOS deliberately changed the game in a way designed to encourage players to play certain races for certain roles in such a way where they will profit off of any player who wants to take advantage of those new changes by changing their race. Which, because of the magnitude of the changes, is a lot more players than previously, where you might see a few meta-chasers change race or reroll new characters. Its monetization of a major gameplay change.

Sure, you can say, 'If you want to follow the meta, sometimes you have to play with money or time/effort," and that's not untrue. But I don't think its right to ignore that ZOS created this situation precisely so that people would pay with money or time/effort to follow the new meta. That fact isn't surprising, but I do find it disappointing.

And that steps right up to the line of P2W. If you cannot afford to change all your chars? Well goodbye to your raid spots. >:(

This is the only way to hit a lot of end game raiders/pvpers - because a lot of them aren't that into cosmetics etc - and that's just not nice.

Narvuntien wrote: »

My dps is the same on live and on the PTS as a dumner MagDK there is nothing to worry about.



You can do all the content in the game (on normal at least) with 30K dps.

I can even hit 30K dual wielding now.

There you go. Again I'll say this for all those who are ranting, pls go download your pts and TEST.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing

Turelus wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

shaielzafine wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.

The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.

If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.

There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.

So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.

If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.

Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.

Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.

So you implying that you can only be a good player or have a love for lore and races? Again: Onesided.

It depends what you want to achieve in the game.

You can be a good player, ignore passives and go on to clear all the content on the hardest modes with whatever race you like.

You can also be a player who wants to squeeze out every single bit of power they can, however that choice of gameplay style comes with the caveat that you need to make sacrifices about your personal beliefs on things to achieve what's best.

The problem is though, you can never have a system where both of those are true for all players.
ZOS has done a shake up and it's going to suck for some people. Is it fair? Not really, but it's going to happen eventually in some way (OP already stated numerous times they've had this happen), this is the nature of an online game which has balance.

sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing, as to balance where on earth is there balance when removing magicka regen for 600 health and also stating a lie on the notes that we now gain immune to the Burning status effect when we all ready have it (Resist Flame: Gain 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect

There is a spreadsheet in the pts forums that the difference is only 1-2k. Again, go on the pts and TEST.

sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing, as to balance where on earth is there balance when removing magicka regen for 600 health and also stating a lie on the notes that we now gain immune to the Burning status effect when we all ready have it (Resist Flame: Gain 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect[/quote]
That's for the guilds to sort out. If they refuse to let a five year veteran good player from their non-leaderboards team remain because of 5k DPS then that's their choice. However I'd say that guild probably cares too much about numbers and not enough about their teamwork.
[/quote]

so ur have just stated non leader boards is all that character is good for, what happens if you want to go for them with that character its a no you can't in ur words, and please show me a guild that is not after cheesing it with numbers

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

It actually is when nerfs are appropriate like in this case.

If Dark Elves keep the fire damage bonus High Elves must keep their elemental bonuses as well and then nothing changes at all. The proposed changes are appropriate and good.

If you chose your race just because of one bonus (that was anything but set in stone) you don't have to blame the developers when they're changing something that's about to change anyway.

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.

Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.

The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.

And monetizing that change = pay2win.

That is the difference.

If you cannot get it IN GAME and to get extra % you have to buy crowns (rather than redo skillpoints, remorph things, make or farm new gear etc); nope that's p2w plain and simple.

Think whatever you like and play or don't but that's the reality right there.

People like to call anything P2W nowadays. Again, you don't have to change your race. Altmer is still good, redguard is still good. The people who were going to change their race over this were going to change it discount or no. You're making a problem out of nothing. If you want to say that the changes were made specifically to force people to change their race then you're going to have to show something supporting that.

Nestor wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

And that's 5k (theoretically) lost per raid member. So if you had 4 or even more dark elves on the team.....

But it is not a 5K difference. Go on the PTS and test.

iam affaird it is if u take just the flame buff that dummers lose and take the 7% of the skills and on my fire mage dk i use nothing but flame skills and if you take in gear sets etc it is 5k, i did the sums, so if the 258 spell damage can make up for that since on my dk i lose 1200 magicka for 600 health also it means less magicka, it seems zos want dk's and dummer to be tanks

I do want to add though - that I wouldn’t hold players reponsible for this because no one asked for this sort of change.

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I’m not calling ‘anything’ pay to win.

I’m calling having to pay real money to put your character to the best possible race for your role after your own race that you chose and levelled and trained because it was best for your role was changed after the fact, pay to win because that’s exactly what it is.

It is not cosmetic, it literally makes a difference in min max builds and that’s precisely pay to win.

You can make a new character. Therefore, the thing being sold is not something that can only be acquired for $$$. Therefore, it's not "p2w". There is no exclusive advantage, only obtainable by actual cash.

(and heck, can race change tokens be gotten via crown store gifting for gold? Then it's even less p2w, since it's not restricted to people with cash.)

Turelus wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing

Turelus wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

shaielzafine wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.

The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.

If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.

There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.

So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.

If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.

Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.

Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.

So you implying that you can only be a good player or have a love for lore and races? Again: Onesided.

It depends what you want to achieve in the game.

You can be a good player, ignore passives and go on to clear all the content on the hardest modes with whatever race you like.

You can also be a player who wants to squeeze out every single bit of power they can, however that choice of gameplay style comes with the caveat that you need to make sacrifices about your personal beliefs on things to achieve what's best.

The problem is though, you can never have a system where both of those are true for all players.
ZOS has done a shake up and it's going to suck for some people. Is it fair? Not really, but it's going to happen eventually in some way (OP already stated numerous times they've had this happen), this is the nature of an online game which has balance.

sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing, as to balance where on earth is there balance when removing magicka regen for 600 health and also stating a lie on the notes that we now gain immune to the Burning status effect when we all ready have it (Resist Flame: Gain 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect

That's for the guilds to sort out. If they refuse to let a five year veteran good player from their non-leaderboards team remain because of 5k DPS then that's their choice. However I'd say that guild probably cares too much about numbers and not enough about their teamwork.

See, magsorcs (especially petsorcs) are not exactly the most wanted in vaguely competitive trials. They already deal visibly less damage than most competitive classes, losing another 5k is like just taking off all my gear and go to hard mode vMOL and similar in blues.

Would you want a guy in blues in an hard mode trial at all? It'd be a sign of gross disrespect vs the other team mates.