Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of January 26:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 26
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 26
First they came for my class. Then for my spec. And now for my race.
-
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).
(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).
When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.
I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.
With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.
With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.
Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.
First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".
Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.
Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.
However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.
What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.
But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".
Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.
Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.
I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!
Is it asking too much?
I too have been put off by the endless streamlining of this game's combat systems. So I can definitely relate with you there. I also believe Dark Elf characters have a legitimate beef with the developers for stripping them of their fire-based bonuses. That was defining to the race and should have been maintained.14 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Beastofmash wrote: »Every skill and race in all mmos are subject to nerfs. It's difficult to keep everything fair with so many aditional updates
Your opinion would ground ANY rational sense, if they nerfed the top overperforming class and race.
No, they arent. Mag sorcs are not bad but are certainly NOT above anyone else and Dunmer are NOT above Altmer. Altmer who, for some reason, have this regal right to be just best at everything including regen.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO9 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭I don't care as long as all races have the same output. Otherwise there is no reason to change anything, and more importantly, it shouldn't cost the player base real money to change the races, and names when the patch goes live.Edited by Arrodisia on January 22, 2019 1:25PM8 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
I had to train for MONTHS to increase my DPS by 2k, to make my weaving and rotations perfect. And now they take away a sizable portion of it. You think it's little? It's what makes me get invites to hm trials over other guys who trained and prepared less than me.
Maybe you like to be treated like an hamster ever rolling on a wheel, I am not.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO18 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
For me the problem is the baffling changes and lazy fixes. We're just moving closer and closer to one generic spec. When all is said and done these race nerfs do nothing to increase viability really.
Redguard is still bis for stamina and Altmer is for mag. Khajiit mage sounds good but they won't sustain so they'll make no impact in serious play. Ditto for Dunmer stam DPS.
And before you go reciting the company line of "if you're not going for scores.." consider this if you're not going for scores any class or any race wearing any gear or even no gear at all will do just fine.
Which they currently are. What exactly is the point of all these disruptive race changes? Variety still isn't there.15 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
This! But that’s the reason people not going to HM raids and stuff don’t care. They won’t be in or even contending for those raids to start with.
If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
I had to train for MONTHS to increase my DPS by 2k, to make my weaving and rotations perfect. And now they take away a sizable portion of it. You think it's little? It's what makes me get invites to hm trials over other guys who trained and prepared less than me.
Maybe you like to be treated like an hamster ever rolling on a wheel, I am not.
People don’t realise what a difference it really does make when trying to get a spot on the roster.
5 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »I don't care as long as all races have the same output. Otherwise there is no reason to change anything, and more importantly, it shouldn't cost the player base real money to change the races, and names when the patch goes live.
This - it should have been race and name changes really. It’s a bit mean to do it any other way. (Especially given how OCD many gamers are; they know they’re gonna get that money)3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Illuvatarr wrote: »Dunmer are getting a buff. Not sure what you are upset about.
Not if you were a fire-wielding MagDK DPS, they didn't.14 -
shaielzafine✭✭✭✭✭
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.16 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.14 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Vahrokh The only thing I can recommend is to give feedback through the PTS as to why the current changes for your race need to be revised, and how they can improve to offer a better experience for everyone. I understand how frustrated you feel. If you need help testing anything im on PC NA and will do my best to help.
Edit: I should point out, I also have a Dark Elf Sorc. I wouldn't race change him for free eitherEdited by D0PAMINE on January 22, 2019 2:17PM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.
Hardly. Dark Elves are in a better place post-patch than they were before it. The only DEs that will suffer are the MagKnights. Just about everyone else got a significant buff, and a lot more flexibility for their build.
A lot of the races just got significant upgrades. I'm disappointed with a few of the things that were lost along the way, but on the whole this is a significant improvement for build flexibility overall. In a number of cases, if you were minmaxing, you'll take a minor nerf. So, my Imperial Tanks are losing some health. But, my StamDPS Sorcs are getting more health at the same time.
I'm mostly disappointed, because the High Elves opened the door for some really interesting changes, and then the game didn't follow through. Their resource return mechanic's pool select could have lead to some amazing new options, if it was a little more widespread.3 -
StormChaser3000✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is a thread on PTS forum with calculation of DPS differences between races.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown#latest
Honestly unless you are into min-maxing it doesn't matter what race you pick. The differences within magicka and stamina specializations are small: within 1-2k.0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭
Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.
So you implying that you can only be a good player or have a love for lore and races? Again: Onesided.9 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It depends what you want to achieve in the game.
Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.
So you implying that you can only be a good player or have a love for lore and races? Again: Onesided.
You can be a good player, ignore passives and go on to clear all the content on the hardest modes with whatever race you like.
You can also be a player who wants to squeeze out every single bit of power they can, however that choice of gameplay style comes with the caveat that you need to make sacrifices about your personal beliefs on things to achieve what's best.
The problem is though, you can never have a system where both of those are true for all players.
ZOS has done a shake up and it's going to suck for some people. Is it fair? Not really, but it's going to happen eventually in some way (OP already stated numerous times they've had this happen), this is the nature of an online game which has balance.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."4 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My dps is the same on live and on the PTS as a dumner MagDK there is nothing to worry about.
You can do all the content in the game (on normal at least) with 30K dps.
I can even hit 30K dual wielding now.
4 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭I had to give up my race when the resource nerf hit
My character has already been stomped on. This new racial skill has given me a chance to go back to my prefered race.
Now it's your turn and I can get some joy back.Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA0 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing
It depends what you want to achieve in the game.
Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.
So you implying that you can only be a good player or have a love for lore and races? Again: Onesided.
You can be a good player, ignore passives and go on to clear all the content on the hardest modes with whatever race you like.
You can also be a player who wants to squeeze out every single bit of power they can, however that choice of gameplay style comes with the caveat that you need to make sacrifices about your personal beliefs on things to achieve what's best.
The problem is though, you can never have a system where both of those are true for all players.
ZOS has done a shake up and it's going to suck for some people. Is it fair? Not really, but it's going to happen eventually in some way (OP already stated numerous times they've had this happen), this is the nature of an online game which has balance.
sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing, as to balance where on earth is there balance when removing magicka regen for 600 health and also stating a lie on the notes that we now gain immune to the Burning status effect when we all ready have it (Resist Flame: Gain 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effectMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's for the guilds to sort out. If they refuse to let a five year veteran good player from their non-leaderboards team remain because of 5k DPS then that's their choice. However I'd say that guild probably cares too much about numbers and not enough about their teamwork.alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing
It depends what you want to achieve in the game.
Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.
So you implying that you can only be a good player or have a love for lore and races? Again: Onesided.
You can be a good player, ignore passives and go on to clear all the content on the hardest modes with whatever race you like.
You can also be a player who wants to squeeze out every single bit of power they can, however that choice of gameplay style comes with the caveat that you need to make sacrifices about your personal beliefs on things to achieve what's best.
The problem is though, you can never have a system where both of those are true for all players.
ZOS has done a shake up and it's going to suck for some people. Is it fair? Not really, but it's going to happen eventually in some way (OP already stated numerous times they've had this happen), this is the nature of an online game which has balance.
sorry to disappoint you most guilds have a dps requirement and to lose 5k dps from the removalable of fire passive on dummer, has nothing to do with leader boards, granted it should not matter but when you have played a character for 5 years and told when you go on a trail you need to change is a big thing, as to balance where on earth is there balance when removing magicka regen for 600 health and also stating a lie on the notes that we now gain immune to the Burning status effect when we all ready have it (Resist Flame: Gain 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."9 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭
It depends what you want to achieve in the game.
Because if you're trying to be the best in a game which has balance passes that's what you do.
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
Why does he need to change? The change came retroactively and crippled his race.
So you implying that you can only be a good player or have a love for lore and races? Again: Onesided.
You can be a good player, ignore passives and go on to clear all the content on the hardest modes with whatever race you like.
You can also be a player who wants to squeeze out every single bit of power they can, however that choice of gameplay style comes with the caveat that you need to make sacrifices about your personal beliefs on things to achieve what's best.
The problem is though, you can never have a system where both of those are true for all players.
ZOS has done a shake up and it's going to suck for some people. Is it fair? Not really, but it's going to happen eventually in some way (OP already stated numerous times they've had this happen), this is the nature of an online game which has balance.
What are you saying is not wrong. But it has nothing to do with the matter. Before the changes it was possible to have a BIS Char with Dunmer. Now the same Dunmer gets outperformed by Khajiit on Mag NB. I dont see any lore-relation or balance-relation in this problem. It´s rather a strategical game-design decision. And that is what makes your comment wrong.Edited by mxxo on January 22, 2019 3:38PM6 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭Guys if I ever adopt this kind of psychosis over a game please intervene.
I honestly don't think that ESO will ever become a spreadsheet simulator like EvE...and that's a good thing."Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.3 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It won't be so bad after we change our spec, adjust and bend, focus on stacking recovery -- we'll be on par with or just behind Kajiit
(!)
Wait! what?...
I agree.
But I wont change race -- I'll make it work.
This is the attitude everyone should have. You're dad and upset? Yes. Are you going ape-poop over the changes? No. You're willing to change and adapt. That's what MMO balance is about. Adapting.
Awesome.0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.
I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.
Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.
The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"10 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭It won't be so bad after we change our spec, adjust and bend, focus on stacking recovery -- we'll be on par with or just behind Kajiit (!)
Wait! what?...
I agree. But I wont change race -- I'll make it work.
This is the attitude everyone should have. You're dad and upset? Yes. Are you going ape-poop over the changes? No. You're willing to change and adapt. That's what MMO balance is about. Adapting.
Awesome.
Trying to call for a change is adapting, too.Edited by mxxo on January 22, 2019 4:10PM3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If he wants to chase the meta then yes he needs to change his race.shaielzafine wrote: »
If you're going for leaderboards in a serious manner you shouldn't ever care about racial choice past the combat benefits, so you should change and adapt to continue working towards the best options possible.Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.
The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.
There will always be something which doesn't perform as good as the others, that's not something games can fix without giving literally the character to everyone.
You're the only one forcing yourself to perform worse if you're taking the suboptimal choice because you're annoyed your old choice got changed.
So are you telling him, that suddenly because ZOS wanted to change racial passives, that he should just go adapt and buy a race change token? For who knows how many toons? This is an issue that ZOS decided to create one day, and on that same day the race change tokens were marked down on sale at the crown store. There was an advertisement in game in my UI as I logged on, after I watched the dev stream.
ZOS and how they're handling race change token is enough debate all together.
I don't think its a another debate all together.
ZOS implemented much needed racial passive updates. We all know some races suffered from lackluster passives.
ZOS then monetized that much needed racial passive update.
They didn't have to.
They could have offered free race changes, understanding that they are upending the way things have been for a long time, in some cases stripping out passive bonuses that have been there more or less from the beginning.
They could have offered Name changes, knowing that lore is important and people often named their characters in accordance with race.
They've offered the wholly inadequate one free Race change token, which I note, doesn't include a name change.
In short, ZOS deliberately changed the game in a way designed to encourage players to play certain races for certain roles in such a way where they will profit off of any player who wants to take advantage of those new changes by changing their race. Which, because of the magnitude of the changes, is a lot more players than previously, where you might see a few meta-chasers change race or reroll new characters. Its monetization of a major gameplay change.
Sure, you can say, 'If you want to follow the meta, sometimes you have to play with money or time/effort," and that's not untrue. But I don't think its right to ignore that ZOS created this situation precisely so that people would pay with money or time/effort to follow the new meta. That fact isn't surprising, but I do find it disappointing.13 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
I had to train for MONTHS to increase my DPS by 2k, to make my weaving and rotations perfect. And now they take away a sizable portion of it. You think it's little? It's what makes me get invites to hm trials over other guys who trained and prepared less than me.
Maybe you like to be treated like an hamster ever rolling on a wheel, I am not.
Train harder! I believe in you! Get those 2k back so you can have the big boys attention!
Don't waste your precious training time here... Go smash done dummies, go! Go git gud. Go earn the big boys attention to get "invited". :P3