VanyelMohr wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

VanyelMohr wrote: »

What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.

This quote is mis-attributed to me. With all the nesting that happens, it's easy to do. I just wanted to make it clear that those aren't my words.

Oh, sorry about that. ><

I'll change it.

Tigerseye wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.

It's always like that, in every game, though.

Some choices are always "more equal than others"...

So, if you want to min/max, you are forced to choose certain things.

Most people end up following the cookie cutter build, even if they have 100 potential choices, in theory.

More choices, normally, just mean more red herrings and (if anyone catches a herring, or two) more imbalance.

Obviously, I'm excluding parts of games that only offer you choices between, very minor, QoL options, here.

Or options which all offer exactly the same kind of dps boost (for example), just in slightly different ways.

Which might (if designed well) make for, genuinely, more flexible choices of build and may (dependent on indvididual playstyle) be considered fairly equal in value.

Only problem with them (especially the former), is that they can be very situational.

Meaning people feel forced to change them, in various different scenarios (e.g. for different bosses); which is not, generally, too much fun.

Unless you are one of the very few people who enjoy, constantly, fiddling around with their build.

mairwen85 wrote: »

• slow rate of earning beyond the current cap (i.e. decrease enlightenment and increase value to next point) or disable
• add soft caps to stats, making investment in certain stars for certain configurations useless whilst remaining usable for others
• add new stars that add non-combat/QoL player perks (like inventory, mount, crafting, trait research time, housing, vendor pricing, etc.)
• give CP investment negative effects, e.g. passed a certain point in one star has detrimental effects on certain stats like damage beyond x = -y in resistance or y% greater cost of skills
• allow CP to be assigned into passive stars once unlocked
• allow CP to unlock out of class, champion or prestige skills within class skill lines

@Tigerseye Exactly that, cookie cutter, min/max will happen no matter what. As will grinding the best possible gear, and slotting the best possible skill combinations -- and executing the best possible rotation. All this will happen, no matter what -- CP isn't a crutch by design, but can be used as one, which is actually a good thing as not every player is of the same skill level. Balance (as per my suggestions quoted from a previous post) is achieved when you have both positive and negative effects interact with one another. I strongly believe that soft caps on player stats will force better interaction between gear and CP where players can overload certain stats to detriment, or focus on other areas once the best possible outcome has been reached between gear + cp for a certain stat. This won't stop min/maxing, or cookie cutter builds (nor should it), but at least it allows players to look beyond the 'best possible' and customize more diversely to actual playstyle/QoL.

@pieratsos you already have that system. The game gives you many options in gear, and skills, mundus -- and allows you to back-fill and prop up with CP (actually the whole point of CP). The thing is knowing what those stars do and what you can use them to improve/alter on your build. Reading tools tips is a good place to start, and this tidbit is also quite useful. You don't have to cut your cookie from the same dough as everyone else -- you don't have to follow the meta -- you can define your build how you want, gear, skills and CP to smooth the hard edges. Just having top gear, top skill loadout, CP as prescribed by content creators means nothing if you don't understand the why of those configurations. When you do, you actually realise that Alcast's (or whoever) builds may not actually suit you or your playstyle -- you might realize that those builds are designed for specific content and group configurations you rarely encounter; either way, knowing the why of it means you can get the gear, slot the skills, assign your CP how you want/need to benefit your playstyle.

VanyelMohr wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

At which point did I call you stupid? Putting words in my mouth now. You are the one who said that you don't PVP, you don't min max, don't care about numbers, only played 2 classes. That's casual and there isn't anything wrong with that. You are the one who asked me before what kind of issues the CP system created, I explained and you seemingly ignored everything because "u didn't notice any issues". If you want more compelling arguments I'd be happy to give you more. Hell the racial changes coming are an example. Half of the races getting nerfed to compensate for power creep yet again. If there is anyone who needs to provide compelling arguments on why the system hasn't created issues its u and no, "but I didn't notice those issues" its not a compelling argument.

As far as those perks are concerned, again they are just ideas. Feel free to post ur ideas and what you may wanted that would make ur character progress. And btw more gold alone is actually big progression for combat as well. Buying new/stronger gear, using expensive potions etc will make night and day difference in combat and can most certainly be a reason for you to finally kill a world boss that is giving you problems.

Some of your comments seem to me to be purposefully insulting.

I'm satisfied with the CP system as it is so I'm not going to spend time coming up with ideas of how to change it. I'm here to say I want it to stay the same or to at least have a say in what a new system would look like. Your arguments don't make sense to me. Maybe I don't understand what you're saying. Others have done a better job than I could explaining how CP doesn't create all the problems you say it does.

Regardless, I think we've significantly annoyed each other. I don't believe that further discussion with each other will satisfy either one of us. I hope the changes to come, whatever they are, will be fun for both of us.

Im sorry if you took them as insults. That wasnt my intention. Playing a game casually isnt an insult. At least not in my book. Everyone play the game differently.

I did explain how CP creates issues giving u many examples. Im not sure about which part of class sustain abilities/passives getting nerfed because of CP and gear giving too much sustain you did not understand. Its prety straightforward. Players have too much sustain. ZOS has to nerf something just to keep some semblance of balance. So they nerf class abilities to reduce sustain. Those iconic, unique, strong abilities that were once the backbone of the class are relegated to just random abilities that are essentially insignificant compared to what CP and gear give. If you just put down the benefits u get from CP now, it becomes blatantly obvious that its too much power and something would have to get nerfed to compensate for all that power.