Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
It's Official. No Champion Point increase next Update. Thank you Rich for listening!
-
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭GreenhaloX wrote: »however, for PvE, it is character oppression. Toons have been shriveled with every damn DLC and updates.
Damn, don't show this guy the current scores on trials. Definitely don't tell him about the 55k+ dummy parses
Nahh.. no need. Don't care much about trials or leader's board. Also, could care less about whatever look at me.. I can hit big numbers from a stationary dummy that doesn't fight back. So impressive there.. Hey Floyd Mayweather, just stand there, don't move or punch and just let me pommel you for the entire 12 rounds. Yeah..0 -
thedude33✭✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »There are hundreds of ideas in the forums. From increased mount speed, to changing animations, unlocking race change tokens and character slots. There are so many ideas to the point where people wouldnt even know where to spend their points. Thats what a fun system sounds like.
That does not sound like a fun system to me. That's okay. We can find different things fun.
Also, wouldn't some of those things mean less money for ZOS?
Doesn't sound like fun to me either.1 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenhaloX wrote: »however, for PvE, it is character oppression. Toons have been shriveled with every damn DLC and updates.
Damn, don't show this guy the current scores on trials. Definitely don't tell him about the 55k+ dummy parses
Which are only achievable by the top 1% elite players in the game.
Most Mid-Tier Trials runners are only pulling between 30k-40k DPS and they are still hitting the leader boards most of the time.
And it is the reason so many players are getting pissed that ZOS keeps nerfing everyone's characters because of the DPS they can achieve, which actually had done absolutely F-ALL to bring them in line with everyone else.
All their nerfing has done is continuously gut out the Mid-Tier players and repeatedly take away any progress they made over the last two years, that they had to fight for and wait for CP upgrade to get that power back to be able to play the way they used to.Far too many characters to list any more.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
And I want a system that makes my character feel stronger on day 365 than on day 1. This is called progression. That has been a key part of RPGs as I have ALWAYS played them. Take away progression and you have a separate dress up game I can play on my mobile phone and a fighting game I can play on any console. I don't like dress up games and I don't like fighting games. I like role playing games.
It does not have to be the current CP system. I am open to the idea that there is a better way to represent progression in the game. New skill animations and "perks" that I can already get in game are not vertical progression and will not satisfy my desires in the game. ZOS is welcome to make whatever choice they want. So am I and my choice will be to find my enjoyment elsewhere if they remove progression altogether.
I never said that there shouldnt be progression in the game. But when that progression comes at the expense of fun and balance, well thanks, but no thanks. And i was always baffled by this mindset. "Hey, as long as i can automatically get 1% more dmg in the next update without actually doing anything, the game can go *** itself".
P.S. Who said that u'd only get perks that u can already acquire in game?Edited by pieratsos on January 20, 2019 7:54PM0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
And I want a system that makes my character feel stronger on day 365 than on day 1. This is called progression. That has been a key part of RPGs as I have ALWAYS played them. Take away progression and you have a separate dress up game I can play on my mobile phone and a fighting game I can play on any console. I don't like dress up games and I don't like fighting games. I like role playing games.
It does not have to be the current CP system. I am open to the idea that there is a better way to represent progression in the game. New skill animations and "perks" that I can already get in game are not vertical progression and will not satisfy my desires in the game. ZOS is welcome to make whatever choice they want. So am I and my choice will be to find my enjoyment elsewhere if they remove progression altogether.
I never said that there shouldnt be progression in the game. But when that progression comes at the expense of fun and balance, well thanks, but no thanks. And i was always baffled by this mindset. "Hey, as long as i can automatically get 1% more dmg in the next update without actually doing anything, the game can go *** itself".
P.S. Who said that u'd only get perks that u can already acquire in game?
It's not about getting 1% more for me. I could care less about the number. It's about feeling my character is still growing and getting stronger. And you don't get CP for free. You have to work for them. Maybe some do the work ahead of time, but they still did the work. WoW and FFXIV add 10 levels with every expansion. You don't get to advance ahead of time in those games and maybe that's the problem we're running into here.
Everything you suggested adding as perks are things I can already get in the game. I can already get mount speed. I already have a great aura/animation that makes my warden glow green and has leaves floating around me. My armor gives me a great ice "bubble" shield when it procs. I can buy race change tokens and character slots, helping to support the company that makes the game I love as it currently is (with a couple of minor quibbles here and there).Edited by VanyelMohr on January 20, 2019 9:46PM1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GreenHaloX wrote:However, it does get harder and harder soloing so with each DLC and updates when toons are continuously being nerfed and shriveled.
Class nerfs aside (which many would argue are just a counter-balance to ever growing power granted via CP), this is utter nonsense.
Right now in ESO you can put on a couple of meta sets and do 20k+ DPS doing nothing but light attacking.
You can do 40k+ DPS with "rotations" using 1 DoT and 1 skill.
Light attacks have been buffed way up.
Weapon glyphs have been buffed way up.
Sets like Relequen and Siroria and Spell Strategist and Zaan are extraordinarily powerful.
We have 270 CP per tree.
The gap between middle-tier DPS and top-tier DPS is closer than it's ever been.
Seriously, I can go on a magblade and using only Elemental Blockade, Light Attacks, Bow Procs, and then execute, do within ~10k of what I can hit with my actual rotation (which adds Rearming Trap, Twisting Path, Crippling Grasp, Soul Harvest and Siphoning Attacks, with about 80,000 bar swaps and carefully timed ultis and is a pain in the ass to sustain). With a rotation that I've spent months practicing, I do 52-55k DPS on a dummy. With a "rotation" that is literally Blockade + 10 LAs + bow procs, repeat, I do 42-45k DPS.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So the point isnt about actually getting stronger but the need to feel that you are getting stronger. So what exactly is the issue with a system that gives limited combat effectiveness and instead offers choices to customize ur character?VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
And I want a system that makes my character feel stronger on day 365 than on day 1. This is called progression. That has been a key part of RPGs as I have ALWAYS played them. Take away progression and you have a separate dress up game I can play on my mobile phone and a fighting game I can play on any console. I don't like dress up games and I don't like fighting games. I like role playing games.
It does not have to be the current CP system. I am open to the idea that there is a better way to represent progression in the game. New skill animations and "perks" that I can already get in game are not vertical progression and will not satisfy my desires in the game. ZOS is welcome to make whatever choice they want. So am I and my choice will be to find my enjoyment elsewhere if they remove progression altogether.
I never said that there shouldnt be progression in the game. But when that progression comes at the expense of fun and balance, well thanks, but no thanks. And i was always baffled by this mindset. "Hey, as long as i can automatically get 1% more dmg in the next update without actually doing anything, the game can go *** itself".
P.S. Who said that u'd only get perks that u can already acquire in game?
It's not about getting 1% more for me. I could care less about the number. It's about feeling my character is still growing and getting stronger. And you don't get CP for free. You have to work for them. Maybe some do the work ahead of time, but they still did the work. WoW and FFXIV add 10 levels with every expansion. You don't get to advance ahead of time in those games and maybe that's the problem we're running into here.
Everything you suggested adding as perks are things I can already get in the game. I can already get mount speed. I already have a great aura/animation that makes my warden glow green and has leaves floating around me. My armor gives me a great ice "bubble" shield when it procs. I can buy race change tokens and character slots, helping to support the company that makes the game I love as it currently is (with a couple of minor quibbles here and there).
You do realise that those were just ideas right? You know, one of the cool things of limited combat effectiveness is that literally whatever the hell you can think can be in the system. From quality of life changes, to role playing changes, better/more loot. Literally anything.
Here is what you still dont understand. Its not that people are against progression. Its about the fact that they are against a system that simply offers way too much power to the point where classes and fun mechanics had to get nerfed over and over again to compensate. I understand that you want progression. But if you want progression just for the sake of progression without even caring about the state of the game well dont wander why most people dont agree with you and would like a change to the current system.
P.S. Make some alts and we will see if you find useful mount passives. I assure you, most people would spend their points in those passives instead of waiting a few months before their horses are maxed out.
Edited by pieratsos on January 20, 2019 10:57PM0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭blah blah blah. If they remove vert prog from eso it will die out in a year. Devs know that. Most likely they will rework CP, maybe similiar to how they changed Veteran Ranks. In effect it was still a leveling system, nothing really changed and I am very confident the it will be no different this time.
Get used to it, CP is not goig away and very likey to be raised or reworked and back in place when the chapter is released. May as well get your crying out of the way now.1 -
Tetrafy✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »There are hundreds of ideas in the forums. From increased mount speed, to changing animations, unlocking race change tokens and character slots. There are so many ideas to the point where people wouldnt even know where to spend their points. Thats what a fun system sounds like.
That does not sound like a fun system to me. That's okay. We can find different things fun.
Also, wouldn't some of those things mean less money for ZOS?
So let me get this straight. Customising ur character the way you like it is not fun but some arbitrary points in a system that you dont even see is fun?
*rollseyes*
We indeed find different things fun.
CP points ARE customizing the character the way I want. I can already purchase things in the crown store that make me look different and there are already systems in the game to make my mount go faster.
Umm, no its not. The character customisation options in the current iteration are very limited. The power the system offers is so great to the point where spending ur points in specific stars is actually required unless you want to gimp urself. What the current iteration of the system offers is character optimisation, not customisation. They are absolutely not the same thing.
You say po-tay-tow, I say po-tah-tow.
What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
So try a different game. /threadEdited by Tetrafy on January 20, 2019 11:09PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »There are hundreds of ideas in the forums. From increased mount speed, to changing animations, unlocking race change tokens and character slots. There are so many ideas to the point where people wouldnt even know where to spend their points. Thats what a fun system sounds like.
That does not sound like a fun system to me. That's okay. We can find different things fun.
Also, wouldn't some of those things mean less money for ZOS?
So let me get this straight. Customising ur character the way you like it is not fun but some arbitrary points in a system that you dont even see is fun?
*rollseyes*
We indeed find different things fun.
CP points ARE customizing the character the way I want. I can already purchase things in the crown store that make me look different and there are already systems in the game to make my mount go faster.
Umm, no its not. The character customisation options in the current iteration are very limited. The power the system offers is so great to the point where spending ur points in specific stars is actually required unless you want to gimp urself. What the current iteration of the system offers is character optimisation, not customisation. They are absolutely not the same thing.
You say po-tay-tow, I say po-tah-tow.
What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
So try a different game. /thread
Dont worry i am. I am one of the many playing since beta that dont find a reason to log in anymore with this poor management of the game. But if the only reason you are playing the game is for the 1% ull get from ur CP in every update then you should probably try a different game as well.Edited by pieratsos on January 20, 2019 11:18PM0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »There are hundreds of ideas in the forums. From increased mount speed, to changing animations, unlocking race change tokens and character slots. There are so many ideas to the point where people wouldnt even know where to spend their points. Thats what a fun system sounds like.
That does not sound like a fun system to me. That's okay. We can find different things fun.
Also, wouldn't some of those things mean less money for ZOS?
So let me get this straight. Customising ur character the way you like it is not fun but some arbitrary points in a system that you dont even see is fun?
*rollseyes*
We indeed find different things fun.
CP points ARE customizing the character the way I want. I can already purchase things in the crown store that make me look different and there are already systems in the game to make my mount go faster.
Umm, no its not. The character customisation options in the current iteration are very limited. The power the system offers is so great to the point where spending ur points in specific stars is actually required unless you want to gimp urself. What the current iteration of the system offers is character optimisation, not customisation. They are absolutely not the same thing.
You say po-tay-tow, I say po-tah-tow.
What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
So try a different game. /thread
Dont worry i am. I am one of the many playing since beta that dont find a reason to log in anymore with this poor management of the game. But if the only reason you are playing the game is for the 1% ull get from ur CP in every update then you should probably try a different game as well.
If CP progression is your only reason for not wanting to log into the game then maybe you should find another game.1 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭It's not about getting 1% more for me. I could care less about the number. It's about feeling my character is still growing and getting stronger. And you don't get CP for free. You have to work for them. Maybe some do the work ahead of time, but they still did the work. WoW and FFXIV add 10 levels with every expansion. You don't get to advance ahead of time in those games and maybe that's the problem we're running into here.
Everything you suggested adding as perks are things I can already get in the game. I can already get mount speed. I already have a great aura/animation that makes my warden glow green and has leaves floating around me. My armor gives me a great ice "bubble" shield when it procs. I can buy race change tokens and character slots, helping to support the company that makes the game I love as it currently is (with a couple of minor quibbles here and there).
So the point isnt about actually getting stronger but the need to feel that you are getting stronger. So what exactly is the issue with a system that gives limited combat effectiveness and instead offers choices to customize ur character?
You do realise that those were just ideas right? You know, one of the cool things of limited combat effectiveness is that literally whatever the hell you can think can be in the system. From quality of life changes, to role playing changes, better/more loot. Literally anything.
Here is what you still dont understand. Its not that people are against progression. Its about the fact that they are against a system that simply offers way too much power to the point where classes and fun mechanics had to get nerfed over and over again to compensate. I understand that you want progression. But if you want progression just for the sake of progression without even caring about the state of the game well dont wander why most people dont agree with you and would like a change to the current system.
P.S. Make some alts and we will see if you find useful mount passives. I assure you, most people would spend their points in those passives instead of waiting a few months before their horses are maxed out.
[/quote]
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »There are hundreds of ideas in the forums. From increased mount speed, to changing animations, unlocking race change tokens and character slots. There are so many ideas to the point where people wouldnt even know where to spend their points. Thats what a fun system sounds like.
That does not sound like a fun system to me. That's okay. We can find different things fun.
Also, wouldn't some of those things mean less money for ZOS?
So let me get this straight. Customising ur character the way you like it is not fun but some arbitrary points in a system that you dont even see is fun?
*rollseyes*
We indeed find different things fun.
CP points ARE customizing the character the way I want. I can already purchase things in the crown store that make me look different and there are already systems in the game to make my mount go faster.
Umm, no its not. The character customisation options in the current iteration are very limited. The power the system offers is so great to the point where spending ur points in specific stars is actually required unless you want to gimp urself. What the current iteration of the system offers is character optimisation, not customisation. They are absolutely not the same thing.
You say po-tay-tow, I say po-tah-tow.
What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
So try a different game. /thread
Dont worry i am. I am one of the many playing since beta that dont find a reason to log in anymore with this poor management of the game. But if the only reason you are playing the game is for the 1% ull get from ur CP in every update then you should probably try a different game as well.
If CP progression is your only reason for not wanting to log into the game then maybe you should find another game.
You really didnt bother to read anything did you? Maybe you should go back and read before jumping in writing nonsense.0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »There are hundreds of ideas in the forums. From increased mount speed, to changing animations, unlocking race change tokens and character slots. There are so many ideas to the point where people wouldnt even know where to spend their points. Thats what a fun system sounds like.
That does not sound like a fun system to me. That's okay. We can find different things fun.
Also, wouldn't some of those things mean less money for ZOS?
So let me get this straight. Customising ur character the way you like it is not fun but some arbitrary points in a system that you dont even see is fun?
*rollseyes*
We indeed find different things fun.
CP points ARE customizing the character the way I want. I can already purchase things in the crown store that make me look different and there are already systems in the game to make my mount go faster.
Umm, no its not. The character customisation options in the current iteration are very limited. The power the system offers is so great to the point where spending ur points in specific stars is actually required unless you want to gimp urself. What the current iteration of the system offers is character optimisation, not customisation. They are absolutely not the same thing.
You say po-tay-tow, I say po-tah-tow.
What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
So try a different game. /thread
Dont worry i am. I am one of the many playing since beta that dont find a reason to log in anymore with this poor management of the game. But if the only reason you are playing the game is for the 1% ull get from ur CP in every update then you should probably try a different game as well.
If CP progression is your only reason for not wanting to log into the game then maybe you should find another game.
You really didnt bother to read anything did you? Maybe you should go back and read before jumping in writing nonsense.
I read just fine, it is obvious when people use alot of words to hide their real intent. CP is not anywear near the issue some try to make it out to be.1 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭So the point isnt about actually getting stronger but the need to feel that you are getting stronger. So what exactly is the issue with a system that gives limited combat effectiveness and instead offers choices to customize ur character?
Here is what you still dont understand. Its not that people are against progression. Its about the fact that they are against a system that simply offers way too much power to the point where classes and fun mechanics had to get nerfed over and over again to compensate. I understand that you want progression. But if you want progression just for the sake of progression without even caring about the state of the game well dont wander why most people dont agree with you and would like a change to the current system.
P.S. Make some alts and we will see if you find useful mount passives. I assure you, most people would spend their points in those passives instead of waiting a few months before their horses are maxed out.
Yes, I need the illusion of feeling stronger. I don't care that the numbers go up/down on the backend as long as I feel that the next boss is harder than the last one. And, what it seems you don't understand, is that you play this game for "feelings" too. The game is all about activating the pleasure centers of your brain. Not everyone's pleasure centers are activated by the same things. That's called individuality.
Your psychological needs are no better than mine, they're just different.
I have 2 alts in addition to my main, making 3 characters. I only play two of them actively. I'm leveling up the speed on my 3rd even though I'm not actively playing it. When I do decide to play it, it'll already be well on it's way to full speed. I understand that the speed leveling system in the game can be tedious, but don't call some speed perk progression. Also, offer an alternative for ZOS to make money if you're going to take away something people can already buy from the crown store if they don't want to actually earn it in game.
I have no interest in making infinite characters. Dragonknights and Nightblades do not fit the fantasy I want from the game. I might, someday, make a Templar, but it's not on my must do list. A vampire Necromancer seems appealing to me so I'll probably make one of those. You go ahead and make 15 characters. I'm not interested.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 20, 2019 11:53PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »So the point isnt about actually getting stronger but the need to feel that you are getting stronger. So what exactly is the issue with a system that gives limited combat effectiveness and instead offers choices to customize ur character?
Here is what you still dont understand. Its not that people are against progression. Its about the fact that they are against a system that simply offers way too much power to the point where classes and fun mechanics had to get nerfed over and over again to compensate. I understand that you want progression. But if you want progression just for the sake of progression without even caring about the state of the game well dont wander why most people dont agree with you and would like a change to the current system.
P.S. Make some alts and we will see if you find useful mount passives. I assure you, most people would spend their points in those passives instead of waiting a few months before their horses are maxed out.
Yes, I need the illusion of feeling stronger. I don't care that the numbers go up/down on the backend as long as I feel that the next boss is harder than the last one. And, what it seems you don't understand, is that you play this game for "feelings" too. The game is all about activating the pleasure centers of your brain. Not everyone's pleasure centers are activated by the same things. That's called individuality.
Your psychological needs are no better than mine, they're just different.
Exactly bingo. Its about the feeling. So its basically about having a system, certain passives to unlock etc. Basically having a goal and watching ur character evolve and progress. That is exactly my freaking point. In terms of feeling that you are progressing both of them do the trick. If anything the one in which u can actually watch ur choices impact ur gameplay doesnt just give you the feeling of progressing because ur character is actually progressing. You are doing things you couldnt do before. You are getting more loot, you are getting better loot, your mount is faster, u can carry more, ur bank is bigger, animations may change to something else that fits ur rp needs, and the list goes on and on and on and on. Ever played the game and said "you know what it would be cool?". Well as long as that isnt throwing combat balance out of the window, it can most likely be in the system. A system that can constantly evolve by bringing in more and more for you to get, without caps so you can actually enjoy everything you earned. So again, what exactly is the issue with that system ?
And do me a favor and leave the individuality lectures out of it. They are off topic and you are putting words in my mouth. I am literally suggesting a system in which any player can find useful passives.
Edited by pieratsos on January 21, 2019 12:07AM0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »So the point isnt about actually getting stronger but the need to feel that you are getting stronger. So what exactly is the issue with a system that gives limited combat effectiveness and instead offers choices to customize ur character?
Here is what you still dont understand. Its not that people are against progression. Its about the fact that they are against a system that simply offers way too much power to the point where classes and fun mechanics had to get nerfed over and over again to compensate. I understand that you want progression. But if you want progression just for the sake of progression without even caring about the state of the game well dont wander why most people dont agree with you and would like a change to the current system.
P.S. Make some alts and we will see if you find useful mount passives. I assure you, most people would spend their points in those passives instead of waiting a few months before their horses are maxed out.
Yes, I need the illusion of feeling stronger. I don't care that the numbers go up/down on the backend as long as I feel that the next boss is harder than the last one. And, what it seems you don't understand, is that you play this game for "feelings" too. The game is all about activating the pleasure centers of your brain. Not everyone's pleasure centers are activated by the same things. That's called individuality.
Your psychological needs are no better than mine, they're just different.
Exactly bingo. Its about the feeling. So its basically about having a system, certain passives to unlock etc. Basically having a goal and watching ur character evolve and progress. That is exactly my freaking point. In terms of feeling that you are progressing both of them do the trick. If anything the one in which u can actually watch ur choices impact ur gameplay doesnt just give you the feeling of progressing because ur character is actually progressing. You are doing things you couldnt do before. You are getting more loot, you are getting better loot, your mount is faster, u can carry more, ur bank is bigger, animations may change to something else that fits ur rp needs, and the list goes on and on and on and on. So again, what exactly is the issue with that system ?
And do me a favor and leave the individuality lectures out of it. They are off topic and you are putting words in my mouth. I am literally suggesting a system in which any player can find useful passives.
You aren't getting it or, more judiciously, we're talking past each other. The perks you are suggesting don't provide me a sense of power nor of progression. It's great that they do for you. THEY DON'T DO IT FOR ME.
Again, I'm open to an alternative power progression system. You haven't clearly offered an alternative to me. Until then, I am going to disagree with you.
1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »So the point isnt about actually getting stronger but the need to feel that you are getting stronger. So what exactly is the issue with a system that gives limited combat effectiveness and instead offers choices to customize ur character?
Here is what you still dont understand. Its not that people are against progression. Its about the fact that they are against a system that simply offers way too much power to the point where classes and fun mechanics had to get nerfed over and over again to compensate. I understand that you want progression. But if you want progression just for the sake of progression without even caring about the state of the game well dont wander why most people dont agree with you and would like a change to the current system.
P.S. Make some alts and we will see if you find useful mount passives. I assure you, most people would spend their points in those passives instead of waiting a few months before their horses are maxed out.
Yes, I need the illusion of feeling stronger. I don't care that the numbers go up/down on the backend as long as I feel that the next boss is harder than the last one. And, what it seems you don't understand, is that you play this game for "feelings" too. The game is all about activating the pleasure centers of your brain. Not everyone's pleasure centers are activated by the same things. That's called individuality.
Your psychological needs are no better than mine, they're just different.
Exactly bingo. Its about the feeling. So its basically about having a system, certain passives to unlock etc. Basically having a goal and watching ur character evolve and progress. That is exactly my freaking point. In terms of feeling that you are progressing both of them do the trick. If anything the one in which u can actually watch ur choices impact ur gameplay doesnt just give you the feeling of progressing because ur character is actually progressing. You are doing things you couldnt do before. You are getting more loot, you are getting better loot, your mount is faster, u can carry more, ur bank is bigger, animations may change to something else that fits ur rp needs, and the list goes on and on and on and on. So again, what exactly is the issue with that system ?
And do me a favor and leave the individuality lectures out of it. They are off topic and you are putting words in my mouth. I am literally suggesting a system in which any player can find useful passives.
You aren't getting it or, more judiciously, we're talking past each other. The perks you are suggesting don't provide me a sense of power nor of progression. It's great that they do for you. THEY DON'T DO IT FOR ME.
Again, I'm open to an alternative power progression system. You haven't clearly offered an alternative to me. Until then, I am going to disagree with you.
This is really confusing. Is it about actually getting stronger or the feeling that you are getting stronger. You are going back and forth. Make up ur mind.
Its cool that you really never thought of anything cool to have in the game. You must be in the extreme minority.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They shouldn’t cap cp they should expand the trees. Not just add new sustain, damage, or mitigation buffs but possibly percentage based procs. Something to drop cp points into. This being specifically for PvP.
For PvE just keep doing what you are doing. Make the new dlc content harder and leave the old content (which you’ve run over and over anyways) easy.
2 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭This is really confusing. Is it about actually getting stronger or the feeling that you are getting stronger. You are going back and forth. Make up ur mind.
Its cool that you really never thought of anything cool to have in the game. You must be in the extreme minority.
Actually being stronger and feeling stronger are the same thing in the game. It's all an illusion. I like the illusion that is currently being created for me. You obviously don't.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 21, 2019 12:24AM1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Not incresing cp cap would be fine only if they would stop nerfing literally everything every major update (and I guess this time will be no different).
Do we actally know what they are going to do with CP system ?
The only reason they have to institute nerfs every patch is because of the power creep created by CP progression, and even then, it's usually not enough.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »This is really confusing. Is it about actually getting stronger or the feeling that you are getting stronger. You are going back and forth. Make up ur mind.
Its cool that you really never thought of anything cool to have in the game. You must be in the extreme minority.
Actually being stronger and feeling stronger are the same thing in the game. It's all an illusion. I like the illusion that is currently being created for me. You obviously don't.
Sorry to break it to you but illusion and reality are not the same thing. Not even close. They are actually opposites. The illusion that you are getting stronger is exactly that. An illusion, you "feel" that you are getting stronger but your character is not actually stronger to the point where you would actually notice the difference. Actually getting stronger means exactly that. That you are stronger. Its not just an illusion. You feel that you are stronger because your character is actually stronger. A boss that one shots you doesnt care about ur feelings. If your character doesnt get stronger then he will still one shot you no matter what you feel.
I understand that you want progression and as ive said im not opposed to that. But what you dont understand is that the system we have now is giving you progression at the expense of the game itself. Which is why people got sick of it and want it to change.Edited by pieratsos on January 21, 2019 12:46AM2 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »This is really confusing. Is it about actually getting stronger or the feeling that you are getting stronger. You are going back and forth. Make up ur mind.
Its cool that you really never thought of anything cool to have in the game. You must be in the extreme minority.
Actually being stronger and feeling stronger are the same thing in the game. It's all an illusion. I like the illusion that is currently being created for me. You obviously don't.
Sorry to break it to you but illusion and reality are not the same thing. Not even close. They are actually opposites. The illusion that you are getting stronger is exactly that. An illusion, you "feel" that you are getting stronger but your character is not actually stronger to the point where you would actually notice the difference. Actually getting stronger means exactly that. That you are stronger. Its not just an illusion. You feel that you are stronger because your character is actually stronger.
I understand that you want progression and as ive said im not opposed to that. But what you dont understand is that the system we have now is giving you progression at the expense of the game itself. Which is why people got sick of it and want it to change.
I don't feel that I've lost anything. You keep saying it, but it's imperceptible to me. I've been around off and on since 2014 and I actually feel the game has gotten better. A few skills have changed, of course, but I adjust. I left for a while after One Tamriel because I initially felt less powerful. Before One Tamriel, I could solo world bosses after I had leveled to 50. Afterwards, I couldn't. I LOST that sense of power I want. What I came to realize is that I just took longer to get enough power to solo the world bosses, so I came back again. I was annoyed that it took longer, but I could still get there.
I've said it too many times now but I only care about power in the game as it relates to my ability to fight monsters. I want to feel as if mudcrabs are like nats now, that I can solo dungeons that I once needed three other people to defeat, and that I will have to work to gain power to defeat the next monster discovered in the game. Having more gold doesn't help me solo world bosses. Having horse speed doesn't help me solo a dungeon (though it might help me get there faster). Having a nifty animation doesn't help me be powerful enough to defeat the newest boss.
If you want to add another tree to the CP system with these perks, I don't mind that. They already have treasure hunter that gives slightly better gold and a chance for better items. They already have inspiration to make crafting a little easier. I don't mind those being added to the CP system. What I do mind is removing options in the tree that make me feel more powerful even if that is miniscule now. It adds up over time and can be adjusted to maintain the illusion I'm getting more powerful. I do mind a permanent cap or the removal of a power progression system completely.
And, I'll say it again, I want the game to be financially strong. Adding too many perks that take money away from ZOS's bottom line means the game will be less financially stable. New skill animations, in my opinion, should definitely be a crown store item. Spending money in the crown store means this game will be around longer.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 21, 2019 2:30AM2 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭A boss that one shots you doesnt care about ur feelings. If your character doesnt get stronger then he will still one shot you no matter what you feel.
So, tell me the system you imagine where I really, truly, completely, in real life get strong enough so that the newest boss doesn't one shot me. People say that they want to do away with CP, but few offer an alternative to provide real, true, non-illusory power. What about adding 10 levels and doing stat squishes from time to time like WoW does? How does ZOS do that, without being a copycat of WoW?Edited by VanyelMohr on January 21, 2019 1:40AM0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Not incresing cp cap would be fine only if they would stop nerfing literally everything every major update (and I guess this time will be no different).
Do we actally know what they are going to do with CP system ?
The only reason they have to institute nerfs every patch is because of the power creep created by CP progression, and even then, it's usually not enough.
Nope. They institute nerfs because unskilled players whine and cry. The best players don’t care. They create builds out of whatever ZOS gives them and continue to wreck people on (build) ingenuity and skill alone.
It’s not cp, not racial passives, not gear, not classes. Builds and skill are what people WISH they could nerf.Edited by JumpmanLane on January 21, 2019 3:35AM2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lost class uniqueness doesn't come from CP. The cp system boosts damage from source, or crit - - this is generic and effects all classes equally. Classes lost uniqueness because most in class skills are either so crap that out of class or weapon skills are preferred, or because they were hit by nerfs to devaluate them vs skills in other classes. in a game where players can, by design, pick and choose from the same skill pools instead of being locked into a predisposed class lock will also result, always, in lost uniqueness because mathematically it's better to use certain skills in combination. Cp has nothing to do with that.
CP is a contributor to power creep, but by no means the worst offender. Gear has a far greater impact. Out of class combinations also, despite that resulting repeatedly in class targeted nerfs.Edited by mairwen85 on January 21, 2019 6:25AM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »This is really confusing. Is it about actually getting stronger or the feeling that you are getting stronger. You are going back and forth. Make up ur mind.
Its cool that you really never thought of anything cool to have in the game. You must be in the extreme minority.
Actually being stronger and feeling stronger are the same thing in the game. It's all an illusion. I like the illusion that is currently being created for me. You obviously don't.
Sorry to break it to you but illusion and reality are not the same thing. Not even close. They are actually opposites. The illusion that you are getting stronger is exactly that. An illusion, you "feel" that you are getting stronger but your character is not actually stronger to the point where you would actually notice the difference. Actually getting stronger means exactly that. That you are stronger. Its not just an illusion. You feel that you are stronger because your character is actually stronger.
I understand that you want progression and as ive said im not opposed to that. But what you dont understand is that the system we have now is giving you progression at the expense of the game itself. Which is why people got sick of it and want it to change.
I don't feel that I've lost anything. You keep saying it, but it's imperceptible to me. I've been around off and on since 2014 and I actually feel the game has gotten better. A few skills have changed, of course, but I adjust. I left for a while after One Tamriel because I initially felt less powerful. Before One Tamriel, I could solo world bosses after I had leveled to 50. Afterwards, I couldn't. I LOST that sense of power I want. What I came to realize is that I just took longer to get enough power to solo the world bosses, so I came back again. I was annoyed that it took longer, but I could still get there.
I've said it too many times now but I only care about power in the game as it relates to my ability to fight monsters. I want to feel as if mudcrabs are like nats now, that I can solo dungeons that I once needed three other people to defeat, and that I will have to work to gain power to defeat the next monster discovered in the game. Having more gold doesn't help me solo world bosses. Having horse speed doesn't help me solo a dungeon (though it might help me get there faster). Having a nifty animation doesn't help me be powerful enough to defeat the newest boss.
If you want to add another tree to the CP system with these perks, I don't mind that. They already have treasure hunter that gives slightly better gold and a chance for better items. They already have inspiration to make crafting a little easier. I don't mind those being added to the CP system. What I do mind is removing options in the tree that make me feel more powerful even if that is miniscule now. It adds up over time and can be adjusted to maintain the illusion I'm getting more powerful. I do mind a permanent cap or the removal of a power progression system completely.
And, I'll say it again, I want the game to be financially strong. Adding too many perks that take money away from ZOS's bottom line means the game will be less financially stable. New skill animations, in my opinion, should definitely be a crown store item. Spending money in the crown store means this game will be around longer.
Except that you don't play the game in the depth required to actually understand these issues. I'm sorry but not everyone plays the game as casually as you.
You seem to be confused on the subject. Your ability to solo world bosses is entirely irrelevant with the subject. No one said that u should become weaker with the new system. The difference is where ur power should come from. I thought this was clear by now.
Oh, and please keep the "I want the game to be financially strong" out of the discussion. Like seriously? If a few perks given to players were enough to financially hurt the company, then the company would be bankrupt by now.Edited by pieratsos on January 21, 2019 6:35AM0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
It's always like that, in every game, though.
Some choices are always "more equal than others"...
So, if you want to min/max, you are forced to choose certain things.
Most people end up following the cookie cutter build, even if they have 100 potential choices, in theory.
More choices, normally, just mean more red herrings and (if anyone catches a herring, or two) more imbalance.
Obviously, I'm excluding parts of games that only offer you choices between, very minor, QoL options, here.
Or options which all offer exactly the same kind of dps boost (for example), just in slightly different ways.
Which might (if designed well) make for, genuinely, more flexible choices of build and may (dependent on indvididual playstyle) be considered fairly equal in value.
Only problem with them (especially the former), is that they can be very situational.
Meaning people feel forced to change them, in various different scenarios (e.g. for different bosses); which is not, generally, too much fun.
Unless you are one of the very few people who enjoy, constantly, fiddling around with their build.
Edited by Tigerseye on January 21, 2019 7:07AM2 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »
What i am saying is that i want a system that gives me options to customize my character the way i want. Make choices for the specific character and actually watch those choices i make having an impact in my gameplay without worrying that my choices will make my character weaker. What we have now, does not give me options to customise my character the way i want. It essentially forces me to put points in specific stars to get the power that was sucked out of my class back.
This quote is mis-attributed to me. With all the nesting that happens, it's easy to do. I just wanted to make it clear that those aren't my words.
0
