Well, if you have more then one race and don't care about that race anyways, you can just respec to make each char suit your (new) needs.

I don't see the problem.

edit. In case you don't know: for respecs one doesn't need crowns.

It is. It fits the definition exactly.

Besides, we shouldn't be paying for balance changes. At best maybe 100 or even 500 gold per char, but certainly "no crowns" at all for their balancing issues, which are paid for according to ZOS in our ESO Plus.

We get skill respecs for free and for 1 gold per point. Why shouldn't we be getting the same here? So because they got big greedy eyes this time, we should pay hundreds of EUROS more? No way. Btw, players complained about the last racial balancing patch too, but just like the majority of these threads got shut down. So did those.

They could just reset our race and name for a week, like they do with skill point change patches, or give us bind on char temporary tokens from a vendor in our starter faction areas for 100 or 500gold per char. It's bad business practice to recharge people real money for something they already pay for here.

I'm not going to buy any tokens from the crown store or from players for them to balance their mistakes, since balancing is part of their work paid for in our ESO Plus, expacs, dlcs,....... amongst the other expenses they have. I don't see anyone else lining up to pay for tokens either. The zone chat was burning up with this topic as well, and against having to pay for the changes. It's just not right. I refuse to buy or sell those tokens, because I refuse to contribute to the problem and refuse to help ZOS rip off fellow players

I understand a few of you guys are hoping to make gold from this. if that's your kind of thing fine. live and let live. I guess I'm just disappointed that some of you turned against your fellow players to defend ZOS, when they're in the wrong. This is wrong on a whole new level, but to each his own I guess.

It's also unreasonable to push players to delete characters they've had for years. So many hours of playtime go into them. Our time is worth money too not just theirs. Otherwise why pay ESO PLus then. By that logic of saying our time is worthless, then they don't need to be paid for their time either then because then their time means nothing as well. It's ridiculous to suggest to a player and paying customer to delete years of progress. SO we should appreciate their time and effort by paying ESO PLus and for all the rest of what's offered, but they can't respect our time even as paying customers. It'S unacceptable.

Some players return when they get skill or gear nerfs after they cool down some, but this is different. They most likely won't return if they feel ripped off. It's shady business. No good will come of this. ZOS will lose way more money trying too push this through, because they'll lose a lot of customers and gain a bad reputation therefore become unable to get many new customers .

FlyingSwan wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not going to buy any tokens from the crown store or from players for them to balance their mistakes, since balancing is included in our ESO Plus. s .

Where do ZOS talk about balancing being included in ESO Plus? Not suggesting you are wrong, but I'd like to read what they have said on this point.

It's been stated by ZOS so many times over the years live and in some threads. Feel free to browse. You're already here in the forums. It was even reexplained live in more detail around when tamriel unlimited was released in 2015, which is before you entered the forums in ESO. This is also nothing new. It's standard practice to use money generated from subs, dlc, store, and expacs for those costs anyway. If you listen every time they talk and read their comments they almost always slip out new key info to sell their product. Sometimes the information seems meaningless to them at the time, but it sometimes bites them later on. Anyway, It's one of many services they provide including keeping the servers running and maintained, customer service, new content, .........., but let's not go on about how that's going again either. Yes I've been here a long time. I already understand why you asked as well. I've seen all of your comments in the other threads. There is a lot going on with this subject and multiple threads have been up about it the last couple of days. Those might help you see the whole picture, or not. Your choice.

Ertosi wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

You're able to CREATE a NEW character. You do not have to race change at all. So to answer your question: No, it's not pay to win.

Is it reasonable for ZoS to force a player to delete an existing character in order to be able to make a new character in order to avoid paying for a race change token, or an additional character slot? Or forcing a player to delete one character anyway because they already have the maximum amount of slots used?

Yes.

I doubt anyone could honestly answer yes to that question unless they happened to be lucky enough to for their race/class combos to have made it through these changes unscathed.

There are plenty of players who have deleted a character to reroll a new alt. I've done it no less than 6 times.

Do some of you have to wear helmets when you leave the house? Jesus.

You can change your race for free, just make a new character. Changing race on an existing character is a *convenience*, which is exactly what we said the industry should monetize in web shops rather than items that do actually provide you an advantage. It's literally not p2w you melon.

For min/maxing yes... for the rest of the casual player base no. It’s still a money grab and lame thing to do on their part for the min/maxxers.

Charge us more for their bad racial balancing...

If the game was newer maybe they could get away with it, but having the same racial passives for almost 5 years now and then all of a sudden changing it? People have had 5 years to min/max everything perfectly, gain all the skill lines, points, and achievements. One token is nowhere near the amount of time people have put into these characters.

Everyone saying to get use to it because they balance gear and stuff all the time don’t look at it from a time perspective. You can grind/make new gear when that stuff is balanced. To recreate a 5 year old character... come on.

I don't think you know what pay to win means...

FlyingSwan wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

I can't find anything in the forums saying that ESO+ includes balancing, and I was an ESO+ subber since release (have played since the first round of beta), but dropped it last time my renewal came up about a year ago. I personally never noted anything different to non-sub in terms of it 'including balancing' however.

ESO Plus does not include "balancing".

Not true during their explanation of how they justified their expenses live around the time of the switch to ONE Tamriel. It was also briefly mentioned a few years back when angry players complained about a multitude of issues at the time and felt they weren't getting their money's worth. They mentioned balancing was part of their job and within the operating costs which are paid for amongst many other expenses they have through our support by paying for ESO Plus, DLC's, Expansions,....... and they were working to fix those issues. It's easy to miss those things during their lengthy discussions and it isn't the most exciting thing compared to their reveals since it's standard business. The rest of what they said was irrelevant because the rest didn't pertain to this subject. What I do think is you and Flying swan are misinterpreting what I mean by that. I do not mean it is some advertising perk in anyway. It is a standard job and therefore expense all dev teams have working on mmo's which is pretty clear cut. Anyway, nowadays, they just say we're working on it, if they even answer at all. Exactly, so these things don't bite them in the kazoo like they used to do.

I see what you are saying now, it's more that ESO+ funds balancing, rather than includes it. I guess ZOS would argue that the design and development effort for the racial changes was indeed funded by ESO+, DLC sales, cash shop trinkets etc., and the sale of race change tokens are a mere convenience for the player. But I think it's more than that, ZOS know that some highly committed min-maxers will purchase a token per char so they can respec to whatever the new meta will be.

But the foil to that is don't be suckered by it. My main is a min-maxed DPS and I will use the free race change token when it's clear how it's all going to play out, but my alts are mainly tanks, who are not as sensitive to meta changes, so what will be will be.

I can't see many people will buy race change tokens as a result of this. ESO is entirely casual orientated, with the vast majority of players never even visiting this forum, so will be entirely unaware of the meaning to this and will simply carry on oblivious.

So true I doubt people will buy a lot of them either. They do feel pressured though and ZOS doesn't make it easy on them with the carrot dangling in their statements during the reveal and what they wrote in the release of the changes they have in mind. The thing is everytime they balanced skills they were reduced down to 1 gold per point and sometimes completely reset for free. So we could change the skills in favor of better ones and not feel punished which was very nice of them. Hoowever, this time they want us to pay real money for an already existing item for balancing changes. When they could just flat out run a script and reset our races and names for free, or take that token add a couple restrictions and slap it onto a vendor for 100-500g per char for a week instead, just like the skill respecs.

The player base didn't create the imbalance. They did. It impacts non meta too. If people want to min max fine. That's their thing. if they want the chars they dreamed of, but couldn't have because the combat different was a lot for them during creation. It's fine too. then they should be able to have it without paying hundreds of Euros, Pounds.......... These changes must be more important than some comments lead us to believe, because If these number changes weren't so important to require a race and name change why do they need balancing at all? Now, the P2W territory they cross into with this entire thing is that these tokens allow you to unlock buffs you didn't have before, which effect raw output. It doesn't matter if it is 1%, 3%, or 100%. It will be a buyable item of advantage for a player who does purchase it, versus one who didn't buy it, solely, because the balancing is still not 100% evened out across the board for all races, which means they might even do this again for a 3rd time. There are a lot of issues going on here, and it's entering some very dark territory which I can't support. I find it's harmful to the entire player base directly and indirectly.

People just need to be honest with themselves here in the forums including ZOS. This isn't right. I think. They should do the right thing for the customers. It's win win for ZOS, because they keep the bulk of the player base and people will have more trust in their stability. Then customers are happy playing and spending money as usual in their shop, on subs, dlcs ....... just imho.

Yeesh. All this sound & fury about something as minor as racials. /eyeroll

Odnoc wrote: »

I don't think you know what pay to win means...

This, too.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Race change token can be gifted. Current conversion ratio is +-300g per crown. So just start saving gold, you don't have to spend a single euro.

Switch to PS4. Current conversion ratio is 100g per Crown.

sorry

There is nothing pay2win in this process.
Crown store dont exclusively sells a racial, with different attributes, just sells the racial Change token.

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

I can't find anything in the forums saying that ESO+ includes balancing, and I was an ESO+ subber since release (have played since the first round of beta), but dropped it last time my renewal came up about a year ago. I personally never noted anything different to non-sub in terms of it 'including balancing' however.

ESO Plus does not include "balancing".

Not true during their explanation of how they justified their expenses live around the time of the switch to ONE Tamriel. It was also briefly mentioned a few years back when angry players complained about a multitude of issues at the time and felt they weren't getting their money's worth. They mentioned balancing was part of their job and within the operating costs which are paid for amongst many other expenses they have through our support by paying for ESO Plus, DLC's, Expansions,.......

By that logic, buying Crowns, Chapters, t-shirts, and other merchandise, is also buying balancing.