Mr_Walker wrote: »

All this drama for something that plays on the absolute margins. The number of players who'll even feel these changes are vanishingly few, and they're all on this forum.

Quelle surprise....

Most players in this game have a magdk dunmer. It used to be pretty imba in PVP. And Argonians took a major hit too, they were FOTY for tanks.

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

How about you speak for yourself?

I do indeed, that is why it is a forum. I still think there is a ton of useless angst sloshing around and people think their world is ending in financial ruin. It's a free country.

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

I have 15 characters, and I play every single one. They are each specced to specific classes and roles, and I tend to swap between them often for my endgame activities. They each serve an important purpose.

I've spent enough time with this game to know when my characters are getting nerfed. I don't need to "test the changes" on PTS. I've tested them on paper, and the results lead me to believe that my entire roster is going to need a race change to stay competitive.

If you don't mind me asking, can you list your current roster (with race, class, magicka or stamina and role) and the list after all the race changes are applied?
I'd like to understand how strong the proposed changes would hit endgame players

eso_lags wrote: »

JadonSky wrote: »

I feel like giving 1 is a kind gesture. I mean when they nerf class skills you don't even have an option to switch classes you have to start from scratch or when they change how skills work they haven't even discounted skill resets lately. People should grateful they get a free race change token and if your lucky maybe a discount on them.

No one likes change but it was a change that was needed. When it comes to MMO's this is how it always is. Every MMO I have played they end up doing major changes for balance and you live with it or you don't. This is not a normal single player Elder Scrolls game so expect balance changes and live with the fact you made the choice to stay with the meta. Meta never last it will always move around in some way or forum.

BoneShatterer wrote: »

basicly im against it.



[*] you created your char the way it was because YOU the player wanted that. BARE WITH IT! YOUR CHOICE YOUR BURDEN
[*] historicly speaking only bethesda added this feature in the past 30 years of online gaming and sadly thats because you guys are so busy argueing over petty crap that you cant see the whole litterbox filled with crap.
[*] this feature should have never been added to a mmo but bethesda did it simply because by chaning the meta they get player to spend money and that brings profit wich in turn bring people to spend more if the meta is always changing. the basic of the cashgrab wheel.
[*] if you want to be that much of a dps god per xpac simple: make 1 char max it ,c rafts skills, make it your main craft and w/e suits you. then make chars you wont give a *** and delete the lamest of them all every time bethesda changes the meta in anew "dlc"
[*] also doing the above will require you to buy character space if you dont delete the ones you wont be using

Heres the problem with this ***. When zos changes a class you have multiple options. You can make or another class, im not sure how many character slots come with the game now but i think it was 4 when i started.

And most of the time they dont nerf the class so badly that nothing can work on it so you can still play it and do well..

But racial passives are different. This is something that has been in the game since the beginning. Zos gave us races that were better for certain classes, this is how they wanted it and this is how it was.

Now they have decided to turn things upside down. You want people with 12 characters to delete half of them? Because thats what im looking at for myself right now. Either race changing or deleting half of them.. Races are not something like a build you can just change, or a class skill where you can go find a weapon skill and try to compensate.

A lot of us care about having a good race for our play style and its just spitting in the face of players who have spent thousands of hours and dollars on this game. As these new changes stand, i think nord might actually be better than orc for my stam sorc in solo pvp. Ill have to try it out, but nord looks very strong. Meanwhile orc got hit HARD which means my stam sorc, which is already in a bad spot, got hit hard too.

There is no need to flip the races around like this, make a huge mess, upset a ton of people, and not give us one change per character. Thats it, just one change per character on each account. Hell, even if its for like a week or two... But IMO, the worst thing is how it looks to a lot of us.

This seems like such a blatant cash grab. And this might be one of the worst ive ever seen. A company flips all the racial passives around because they KNOW people care about min maxing. They 1000% know this. So they KNOW a lot of people will buy race changes instead of deleting their characters that they've had for years. Countless achievements and hours gone. This is so scummy if they do this.

And the sad part is, even if they do give us one per character, they still will sell a lot of race changes. Because console players cant test things on the PTS, and the ones who are willing to spend the money will end up playing around with different races.

100% this. The casual players probably don't care but for the segment of the population that have multiple toons for group play and for players who min max, or even just for people like me who already spent money for race change tokens in the past (because of the racial passives obviously) then we're left needing to race change multiple characters back. I'm not going to purchase any of the conveniently marked down tokens for sale simply because ZOS decided they want to sell more race change tokens. It wasn't broken, but they want to mark down the tokens and sell it to us. They know about game performance problems, like Rich Lambert was talking about, why don't they put all their focus on that & fixing bugs & the new content instead of racial passives?

JadonSky wrote: »

I feel like giving 1 is a kind gesture. I mean when they nerf class skills you don't even have an option to switch classes you have to start from scratch or when they change how skills work they haven't even discounted skill resets lately. People should grateful they get a free race change token and if your lucky maybe a discount on them.

No one likes change but it was a change that was needed. When it comes to MMO's this is how it always is. Every MMO I have played they end up doing major changes for balance and you live with it or you don't. This is not a normal single player Elder Scrolls game so expect balance changes and live with the fact you made the choice to stay with the meta. Meta never last it will always move around in some way or forum.

This is not BETA, what are u talking about?
Pepole invested, race changed, and well thought about their build so they can reach some kind of progress - Such drastic change is a well seen scam. The least they can do is give every char a race change token.

Or you could stop chasing the meta noone is forcing you to play that way.

Why blame ZOS when you can just play the way you like?

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

Or you could stop chasing the meta noone is forcing you to play that way.

Why blame ZOS when you can just play the way you like?

This.

Overall this has been an buff outside or Argonians, think Dunmer took an small general nerf
I and lots of others thought this would be an Morrowind level nerf feast.
Yes some builds got an nerf, khajiit gankers or high stamina regen. Probably Altmer pet sorc. Dunmer magDK.

Or ZoS, here is a good tips, stuff an tail on Bosmer give them som new textures and make a Ohmes-raht race.
Make them a bit OP, no not much just a tiny bit to trigger the theory crafters
Dont tell anybody until just before PTS.
Profit.
Q3 they get an small nerf

shaielzafine wrote: »

Why settle for good when I know it could be better? For example, after I race changed and fixed my build on one of my healer toons I found I had no more problems with magicka sustain because it wasn't a Nord anymore. Most people that play casually will never run into this problem, but for trials leaderboard runs and for PvP, you will notice a difference when you set up your build properly vs when you do it "for fun". And yes, racial passives matter, that's why when you Google ESO builds they have recommended races. I don't see why it's hard to understand that there is a segment of the game's population that prefer min-maxing builds. It's a preference, just because you don't prefer to play that way doesn't mean nobody else does. And considering ZOS sells race change tokens in the first place, clearly there is enough demand from enough players to have specific racial passives.

I get that from an endgame players perspective even minor changes in passives can cause problems (go tell a sprint runner that half a second is irrelevant), but given this, what changes to racial passives could be acceptable for the leaderboards crowd?

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think they intended it to be a scam or money grab pay to win thing. I think they are really trying to address the huge racism problem Tamriel has. I don't think the first look at execution of this is probably quite right (ie. dark elves are not good at anything, wood elves dodge roll builds will be miserable to fight against in CYR, and Redgaurd looks to lead the stam deeps by even greater margins) but I do think the intentions are tword balance and not the balance sheet. Despite what people say, I think ZOS has played pretty straight on revenue with the exception of the whole "chapter" thing preventing subbed players from having all content be paid for by their sub. I don't feel like they have dipped into pay to win anyway. If I did feel that, I would not be here to talk about it.

We weren't really on this subject here, we accept the changes just not the cost they are throwing at the player base for their balancing issues, but since this now became part of the discussion, here goes.

Unfortunately a lot of people disagree about it being pay to win and here's why.

1st the definition: In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free.

That token is an item purchasable in game for a lot of real money, and it allows you to unlock racial passives you didn't have before which increase your raw output.

Now, can this question be answered by anyone with a yes?

1.Does this token unlock passives which give you a combat advantage over someone, who won't buy this item to get these passives from the game store?

Yes. It doesn't matter how small or large the amount of increase is, it does give an advantage.

It's crystal clear to people who are honest with themselves and honest with the community members they play with. This isn't player vs. player right now. There is no need to attack each other's play styles or RP habits or any other thing here. We are all the player base together not just one of us is important. We're all important. I see some commentts like so what i don't need those tokens because I only have one char, or stop chasing the meta. Let your fellow players play the way they want. If they want the meta let them have it. If they want to RP let them. If they want to trade only or pvp only let them.

I could've said "ok to hell with it. I can afford the race and name changes for all of my chars, and i have every slot full. So it doesn't really have anything to do with me directly, but instead I read the complaints and the info from ZOS and looked at the situation closer and saw something was foul. So I got down in trenches here with my fellow players and said this is where the buck stops right here and right now, because I don't agree with ZOS and I do agree the player base is right to complain and right to ask for free tokens for all chars. This shouldn't be a player burden to bear. If I buy those tokens now. I'd be supporting ZOS charging people for a mistake that ZOS made. I won't do that.

This is a balancing issue. We didn't pick the wrong races and just willy nilly want to change. No. They made a mistake and instead of owning it and giving us the name and race change tokens free per char, they want us to foot the bill, a very expensive one at that. They claim in multiple posts that they've been actively working on balancing and that sub pays for things like servers, balancing, and all of the other costs they have. now add the expansions and dlcs we pay for over the years to that. So why? are we to pay for a balancing issue? We sometimes get our skill respecs for free and sometimes reduced for 1 gold per point. So now because these tokens cost real money for us they don't want to give us the race/name respec token even though the changes were caused by their mistake. I think not. The token cost nothing for them. they only cost something for us, but we didn't make the mistake so why? why should we pay our hard earned money for someone else's mistake.

Some of you are getting so busy arguing with each other, flat out insulting each other and putting each other down, that you forgot you have a sh@t sandwich in front of you. It won't clean itself up and throw itself away. We have performance issues, outdated servers, bugs galore piling up, balance issues, half way communications, and now they're draining people's pockets for a mistake ZOS made.

ZOS can turn this around if they want to, but they won't have incentive to do so, if we keep taking the sh@t sandwich. Are you going to continue to let them feed you and your fellow players those sandwiches, or are you going to finally let them know you all want to be treated well like customers should be treated.

shaielzafine wrote: »

That's basically my point. It's already like this, they already identified the problem, some races feel too good to pass up from a combat perspective. Do they solve this problem with the proposed rework? No. Redguard & High elf remain good for mag & stam dps, some of them are the same but a bunch of them got switched around. So for those characters, players that want to min max will need to race change. In the end, it doesn't solve a problem, it is an extra problem.

Thanks, I had the feeling that they had changed a bit too much, ending up basically shuffling unbalance around, now I see it more clearly

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Indeed...should be 1 character bound token per character...most will likely never be used...but ZOS greed says “BEEEEEEEEEEP”