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New dungeons better be normal
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ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you people literally saying that you, in this game, can not do a single mechanic? Every one of these dlc dungeons have like 2 mechanics per boss and you simply can't do em? How hard is it to stand behind the bad guys and to move out of the aoe????? It's fricken simple. You don't need 50k dps.
It's a dungeon, not a delve. If you want a delve then go do a delve.....which most of you want to turn dungeons into.
The point completely flew over your head didn’t it?
That doing 1-2 mechanics per boss makes a normal dungeon impossible?
I've got a great idea. There's enough of you folks on these forums saying the same thing over and over. Why don't y'all get together and go run these dungeons??
Also, I have NUMEROUS times offered, on these forums, to take folks through these dungeons (think I've offered up to hm clears too) and have never ever had one person take me up on it. Not one. What y'all wanna do is sit here and cry about things even when solutions have been presented to yall.
You’ve still not understood the point. Congrats.
I went back and glanced at your OP and it I'm pretty sure you're crying about a difficult NORMAL dungeon, which there aren't any. So yeah, color me confused.
I’m not ‘crying’ about anything what I’m clearly talking about is the next set of DLC dungeons, which ZoS has basically said the normal mode will be basically vet SoTH difficulty, note I’m not talking about vet dungeons before you start crying, in talking about normal. Now these dungeons are tied to a story, ergo it’s not necessarily accessible to the casual player or the new player. Tying these into the story means that those who do not have the means, capability or network to complete them miss a massive chunk of the year long overarching story.
I dont' recall them saying that, not saying they didn't but I musta missed that part. Also, good. Cuz those are not difficult rofl.
Those may not be difficult for you, but they are for a lot of players. I see new players struggle in fungal grotto 1, and even max cp players struggle in normal dungeons I can solo no problem. Yeah it's confusing sometimes to see a max level person just spamming snipe from the back then dying to a gust of wind, but that's just how some people play. Everyone's skill level is different, and not everyone is capable of "getting good" for their own reasons. If they're tying dungeons into the story for this year's dlcs, they do need to make them more accessible to the majority of the player base instead of catering to the smaller portion of "elite" players.11 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
How easy does this game have to get? Do people really suck that bad?3 -
ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Splattercat_83 wrote: »And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
How easy does this game have to get? Do people really suck that bad?
A large portion of the player base plays because it's Elder Scrolls. These people, myself included, play it like they would any other rpg. The fact that it's an mmo is just kind of a side thing. Some of us "git gud" so we can so everything we want to solo like we would in say Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. However not everyone is really interested in that, used to the effort/difficulty of it, or even capable of it if they have limitations like time or disabilities etc. So yeah to you they suck I guess, but they just want to play another Elder Scrolls game without waiting several more years.11 -
Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭ApostateHobo wrote: »Splattercat_83 wrote: »And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
How easy does this game have to get? Do people really suck that bad?
A large portion of the player base plays because it's Elder Scrolls. These people, myself included, play it like they would any other rpg. The fact that it's an mmo is just kind of a side thing. Some of us "git gud" so we can so everything we want to solo like we would in say Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. However not everyone is really interested in that, used to the effort/difficulty of it, or even capable of it if they have limitations like time or disabilities etc. So yeah to you they suck I guess, but they just want to play another Elder Scrolls game without waiting several more years.
Mhm true.2 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
I'm glad that there are more people agreeing with this sentiment than backing up the elitists in this thread.
Having a Normal version that has a reasonable level of difficulty for the 90% of the population that doesn't regularly complete Vet and Hard Mode isn't too much to ask for.
The people who want exponentially challenging content can still have that. Continue to make Vet and HM reflect the needs of that community.
Having a Normal mode in new DLC's that reflects the needs of the other community (the larger percentage of the playerbase) doesn't take away from the former group. There isn't a loss here. It's about accessibility.
I don't understand why the Vet/HM crowd needs to pipe in and say, "Git good" when the subject matter of this thread has nothing to do with them, since they don't do Normal mode to begin with.
What I would really like to see is the LFG have filters so you can toggle which DLC's show up.
I always do a normal run before vet so I can get a feel of what the mechanics are going to be and also get a feel of what you can burn through and when you have to dial it back.
If you make it so mind numbingly easyApostateHobo wrote: »Splattercat_83 wrote: »And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
How easy does this game have to get? Do people really suck that bad?
A large portion of the player base plays because it's Elder Scrolls. These people, myself included, play it like they would any other rpg. The fact that it's an mmo is just kind of a side thing. Some of us "git gud" so we can so everything we want to solo like we would in say Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. However not everyone is really interested in that, used to the effort/difficulty of it, or even capable of it if they have limitations like time or disabilities etc. So yeah to you they suck I guess, but they just want to play another Elder Scrolls game without waiting several more years.
I mean I can understand to a certain point, but what is the use of having a dungeon that poses no challenge? I mean that is why you progress from delves, to public dungeons, to normal group dungeons, to vet group dungeons, normal dlc dungeons, vet dlc dungeons etc.... I mean I understand having a normal mode, and vet mode, but why hold it back on normal mode? I don't understand the logic behind it. If you are into the game enough to care about doing the content, then get into enough to learn how to survive, learn how to dps, learn how to heal, learn how to tank etc...
You aren't going to learn to play the game by one shotting everything, and nothing doing damage to you. You learn the game by getting your *** getting shoved in the dirt. Harder content will make you a better player. I couldn't play the game for ***. I started vet Maelstrom Arena. I lasted about 10 seconds on the first stage, and I started figuring things out. It took a while and I finally cleared maelstrom. I kept going back, and it began to make me a better player. I want to see players grow, not get crap handed to them on a silver platter. Its like anything else in life. If you don't challenge yourself then you aren't going to learn or grow.1 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is a real problem for many new and casual players, and casual is not and should not be a dirty word. Neither is this game a second job. Casual players should be able to have that experience and not miss out on the story. All this e-peen 'git gud' nonsense is beyond stupid and usually escapes the fingertips of angsty teen boys who can't fathom other ways of enjoying the game beyond their own myopic view.forever stuck in combat17 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wonder how many folks arguing against some type of easy mode have ever just went around a talked to the surviving NPCs in some of these dungeons after they have been completed just to see what they have to say before they leave the dungeon. Or maybe just stood there to hear what they have to say in between different sections of the quest, not the ones you can interact with but the ones who just carry on a conversation, before you even reach the end.
Edit to add example:
https://youtu.be/iVI9atk27xM
Edited by Casdha on January 18, 2019 5:57AMProud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%4 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I’ll say it louder to get my point across
NO ONE IS DISCUSSING MAKING VET MODE OR VET HM EASIER, I WAS JUST USING THE DIFFICULTY OF VET DUNGEONS TO FURTHER ILLUSTRATE MY POINT ABOUT NORMAL DUNGEONS, THIS TITLE IS LITERALLY ABOUT NORMAL DUNGEONS IDK WHERE YOU GO THIS NOTION THAT PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE VET DUNGEONS EASIER.
Hey your caps lock key is stuck. Its good to clean your keyboard every now and then. Just a couple tips.
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Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭
I’ll say it louder to get my point across
NO ONE IS DISCUSSING MAKING VET MODE OR VET HM EASIER, I WAS JUST USING THE DIFFICULTY OF VET DUNGEONS TO FURTHER ILLUSTRATE MY POINT ABOUT NORMAL DUNGEONS, THIS TITLE IS LITERALLY ABOUT NORMAL DUNGEONS IDK WHERE YOU GO THIS NOTION THAT PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE VET DUNGEONS EASIER.
Hey your caps lock key is stuck. Its good to clean your keyboard every now and then. Just a couple tips.
Thank you for the tip! I’ll work on it rn0 -
Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭]
Lol this thread is full of them tryhardsKhajiitFelix wrote: »But what about tryhards that complain the game is so easy?
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mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭DLC dungeons not that hard even with PUG, except HM and only second half of dungeons.
Devs must GET RID OF ONESHOT HEAVY ATTACK BS and make more roots, stuns, dots, kite. Best of the best (imo) example of dungeon mecha is Scalecaller. There are no oneshot heavy attacks, all oneshots avoidable and many cool mechanics you need to know.2 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Agreed with OP, if these dungeons will be integral part of teh "year long story" (its not IF any more, its what they said in the podcast) solo or "story" mode is 100% required for them.
In fact it would be exactly same format as Main Questline in the base game....just with multiplayer IF you want that.Edited by MikaHR on January 18, 2019 10:36AM10 -
Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »But what about tryhards that complain the game is so easy?
Well, those people can quit the game.4 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is a real problem for many new and casual players, and casual is not and should not be a dirty word. Neither is this game a second job. Casual players should be able to have that experience and not miss out on the story. All this e-peen 'git gud' nonsense is beyond stupid and usually escapes the fingertips of angsty teen boys who can't fathom other ways of enjoying the game beyond their own myopic view.
But how the hell am I supposed to get my sense of validation? By being good at other stuff? No sir, that will NOT do.
I will wave my peen around, like it's a national flag on national flag waving day where you get bonus points for waving bigly, and you WILL admire it.4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You don't have to complete hard mode. It's there for those that want a challenge. If it's too hard for you, don't do it.5 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Agreed with OP, if these dungeons will be integral part of teh "year long story" (its not IF any more, its what they said in the podcast) solo or "story" mode is 100% required for them.
In fact it would be exactly same format as Main Questline in the base game....just with multiplayer IF you want that.
100% serious here (which I rarely am), yes, they do need to be accessible. People who buy for the story, of which these new dungeons would seem to be an integral part of, should feel, and in fact ARE entitled to get that story. It shouldn't be gated behind anything insane. I'm not calling for pushover, but anything beyond ICP difficulty by zos would be doing their fanbase a disservice. I don't care if they ramp vet up to "insane OMG WTF just happened I just had a brain aneurysm and my left arms gone numb and I smell burning toast" levels, but normal needs to be accessible.
It would be different if they weren't a part of the story. But they're not.DLC dungeons not that hard even with PUG, except HM and only second half of dungeons.
Devs must GET RID OF ONESHOT HEAVY ATTACK BS and make more roots, stuns, dots, kite. Best of the best (imo) example of dungeon mecha is Scalecaller. There are no oneshot heavy attacks, all oneshots avoidable and many cool mechanics you need to know.
Oh god please no more roots/snares/CCs from mobs. It's just painful.Edited by Mr_Walker on January 18, 2019 10:44AM2 -
ATomiX96✭✭✭✭✭
✭Normal version of the upcoming DLC dungeons should be puggable for our lorefriends and roleplayfriends.
Vet should still be somewhat of a challenge to not get boring after running it twice.Edited by ATomiX96 on January 18, 2019 10:50AM3 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭ApostateHobo wrote: »Splattercat_83 wrote: »And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
How easy does this game have to get? Do people really suck that bad?
A large portion of the player base plays because it's Elder Scrolls. These people, myself included, play it like they would any other rpg. The fact that it's an mmo is just kind of a side thing. Some of us "git gud" so we can so everything we want to solo like we would in say Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. However not everyone is really interested in that, used to the effort/difficulty of it, or even capable of it if they have limitations like time or disabilities etc. So yeah to you they suck I guess, but they just want to play another Elder Scrolls game without waiting several more years.
Whilst the above is undoubtedly true, it doesn't logically follow that all content must be dumbed down to that casual level. It really depends on the strategic intent of the company standing to profit from the game, ZOS. Do they think that it's better to have a baseline level of difficulty that anyone can faceroll, even light bow-attacking wombats? Or do they feel there's more merit in providing a gradient of challenge that gives people the carrot and stick to improve their skills and therefore get more from the game.
To date the signalling from ZOS is the latter, because they provide a gentle ramp up from overland (impossible to die/fail), to normal vanilla dungeons (training wheels still on), DLC normals (training wheels off but still very easy for people who have developed their skills on earlier content), to basic vets, normal trials, DLC vets, vet trials and then HM to add a bit of spice upon request.
ZOS clearly have a vision about a gradient of the optional content, which is par for the course in such a game, but a small but vocal part of the community seem to desire to this new thing where, 'we're all winners'. Simple fact is, in any form of activity, some will be better at it than others. I am appalling at any form of twitch shooter, to the point I am a laughing stock of my son and his friends, so I don't partake unless to provide comedy. So it will be the case in ESO, some content will simply be behind skill barriers, c'est la vie, it's just a game, not something with any intrinsic life merit. But even so, the normal DLC dungeons we have today are rather simple to clear for a co-ordinated and communicating team.
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IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭I don't think we will see such large change as a Story Mode coming anytime soon as this would require some serious work, and from all I can see I would say that ZOS is rather understaffed as it is.
My guess is that they are rather betting on the new Guild Search function in the hope that people look/find guilds that will help them clear those dungeons. This is, at least in my experience on PS4/EU a fallacy, there aren't that many PvE guilds left, most still active guilds are either trade guilds, end-game trial guilds and a few PvP guilds. Or maybe there are more, but then they so a very good job of hiding themselves ...1 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭This is a real problem for many new and casual players, and casual is not and should not be a dirty word. Neither is this game a second job. Casual players should be able to have that experience and not miss out on the story. All this e-peen 'git gud' nonsense is beyond stupid and usually escapes the fingertips of angsty teen boys who can't fathom other ways of enjoying the game beyond their own myopic view.
I'm far from an angsty boy, I'm a 35 year old man that works 60+ hours a week, that has a family. Casual dosent mean bad, I must, by circumstance have to be a casual player. I still hit 50+k on my dps characters, and have a healer and a tank. Hell I just recently beat vmaw back in the fall. I am also currently progressing vhof. I have also beat every dungeon, hm, speed run and no death. I get to play an hour or two a night 2 or 3 nights a week and that is if I decide to give up a little sleep.
If your new and hitting 10k dps that's fine but you have no place inside of a group dungeon. Play they game and learn it before stepping in there and making it hard on the other 3 players that have put the time in to learn their toon, learn yours first. If you are cp300+ and hitting 10k dps I'm sorry but you dont need to worry about experiencing the game, you need to be learning the game. This isn't super Mario bros, this is eso and there is a lot to this game. If you dont want to take the time to figure it out "before you experience the content" then you need to play a NES, because 2 buttons and a d pad is more your speed.3 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
I'd be thrilled if the new dlc normal would just match the original vet. I don't understand why excluding solo players is a goal.
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Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
You don't have to complete hard mode. It's there for those that want a challenge. If it's too hard for you, don't do it.
That guys is wrong. Vet dungeons and vet HM isn’t what I was talking about.
Edited by Libonotus on January 18, 2019 3:36PM4 -
Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭Colecovision wrote: »And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
I'd be thrilled if the new dlc normal would just match the original vet. I don't understand why excluding solo players is a goal.
I agree with the last half2 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just sharing this here, since this thread is what got me to try it in the first place.
Average Solo players can solo Group Dungeons (Elden Root 1st time run w/story)Proud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just sharing this here, since this thread is what got me to try it in the first place.
Average Solo players can solo Group Dungeons (Elden Root 1st time run w/story)
which is nice and all... IF DLC dungeons on normal would have the difficulty of dungeons that used to be essentially training dungeons you get when you first leveled up enough to start trying dungeons.
I can solo dungeons with 1 in the title as well. that said, there are plenty of solo players who can't even do that much. should they be locked out of half the story for the next year? becasue remember, dungeon releases are half the content releases we get per year.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
EphemeraCrawford✭✭✭✭If they didn't lock Story behind Dungeon content none of this would be an issue. Some people don't like the whole Dungeon mechanic, where you're just rushed through the environment with no time to look at where you are. To actually follow the plotline of ESO's 'year long story event' people are going to be forced to do dungeon content. It's a strange design choice.12 -
H3IIi0N✭✭The newer dungeons all seem to employ the same gimic. One I haven’t seen since the days of Everquest.
Developer, “Hmmm in test runs they blast right through this stuff. What should we do?”
Developer2, “GIVE YARD TRASH ONE SHOT MECHANICS!”Denubis Djinn Dunmer DK - XB1 NA EP
Derpy Derpwnz Khajit NB - XB1 NA AD4