I can understand the reasoning behind making Dunmer an even more flexible race for stam or mag -- in fact, I kind of like the approach of even bonuses on either pool. However, the current concept will result in a race that can do either equally, but excels in neither where other races still do.
Dunmer:
+1250 resource
+258 Weapon and Spell Damage
+2310 Flame resistsance
+600 health
Should the damage/sustain margin decrease be that great for what amounts to a minor increase in survivability -- especially as the previous edge on flame damage is now lost (the only real gain previously for sacrificed sustain)?
Setting the resource passive to 1750 is a more realistic value = minor sacrifice to sustain for a minor gain in survivability.
On the other hand, the only logical reasoning for the gimped sustain otherwise is the design concept that Dunmers sacrifice sustain for burst damage, in which case resource sacrifice should be balanced with greater weapon/spell damage:
+1250 max resource
+330 Weapon and Spell Damage*
OR
+1500 resource
+300 Weapon and Spell Damage*
Alternatively
+1250 resource
+258 Weapon and Spell Damage and +4% fire damage
*NB: +/- equal dmg without equivalent recovery bonus or procced sustain (per other classes)
Altmer
2000 = 200 :: 200 + 258 = 458
Dunmer
258 + 75 = 333
1250 = 125 :: 125 + 333 = 458
I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.
At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.
I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.
At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.
I understand they thought but wouldn't that bring issue up making race nich for fire builds again? What about if they had cost reduction with a skill line? What would make them competitive when thinking altmer or dummer?
I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.
At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.
I understand they thought but wouldn't that bring issue up making race nich for fire builds again? What about if they had cost reduction with a skill line? What would make them competitive when thinking altmer or dummer?
I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.
At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.
I understand they thought but wouldn't that bring issue up making race nich for fire builds again? What about if they had cost reduction with a skill line? What would make them competitive when thinking altmer or dummer?
What's wrong with Dunmer being niche for fire builds?
Maybe someone will come up with a PVP build that uses Dunmer as it is now, but in PvE the passives will not be very compelling after the patch.
I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.
At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.
I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.
At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.
I understand they thought but wouldn't that bring issue up making race nich for fire builds again? What about if they had cost reduction with a skill line? What would make them competitive when thinking altmer or dummer?
What's wrong with Dunmer being niche for fire builds?
Maybe someone will come up with a PVP build that uses Dunmer as it is now, but in PvE the passives will not be very compelling after the patch.
That's why Dev notes say in regards to design changes.
ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Many bonuses provided from races had narrow application or requirements, such as specific damage types or proc conditions. For example, Orc’s have a damage bonus that only applied to melee attacks, instead of all physical attacks.
ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Some races provided far more mathematical combat power than others.
The delta between some races is noticeably high, leaving some races feeling left behind while others feel too good to pass up from a combat perspective.
GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds.
GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds.
But damage scales off max resource -- the class is equal across both resource pools; that 2500 is split down the middle. This means what is true for mag is also true for stam. Dunmer has:
- 0 stamina recovery bonuses, less stamina than other races, not enough base weapon damage to compensate.
- 0 Magicka recovery bonuses, less magicka than other races not enough base spell damage to compensate.
MagSorc has extra stam to break free or roll one more time, maybe -- that's it right there. That's the decider for magsorc!
Now what about stamsorc? Why choose Dunmer over another race?
PvP, Dunmer has some options open still. PvE, not really. There's only cosmetic reasons -- that would be enough for me normally, but not when I've put 4 years of effort in.
I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.
At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.
I understand they thought but wouldn't that bring issue up making race nich for fire builds again? What about if they had cost reduction with a skill line? What would make them competitive when thinking altmer or dummer?
What's wrong with Dunmer being niche for fire builds?
Maybe someone will come up with a PVP build that uses Dunmer as it is now, but in PvE the passives will not be very compelling after the patch.
GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds. It seems like a slight pve nerf but a pvp not a nerf or a buff but way to make some interesting builds.
GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds.
But damage scales off max resource -- the class is equal across both resource pools; that 2500 is split down the middle. This means what is true for mag is also true for stam. Dunmer has:
- 0 stamina recovery bonuses, less stamina than other races, not enough base weapon damage to compensate.
- 0 Magicka recovery bonuses, less magicka than other races not enough base spell damage to compensate.
MagSorc has extra stam to break free or roll one more time, maybe -- that's it right there. That's the decider for magsorc!
Now what about stamsorc? Why choose Dunmer over another race?
PvP, Dunmer has some options open still. PvE, not really. There's only cosmetic reasons -- that would be enough for me normally, but not when I've put 4 years of effort in.
Reguard might be better than dunmer, but if your are redguard would sorc be the best class. You want that extra magicka and damage bonus for utilizing dark deal. Redguard has enough stamina it doesn't need any dark deal. But its not going to be able to streak cast ward then dark deal.
GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds.
But damage scales off max resource -- the class is equal across both resource pools; that 2500 is split down the middle. This means what is true for mag is also true for stam. Dunmer has:
- 0 stamina recovery bonuses, less stamina than other races, not enough base weapon damage to compensate.
- 0 Magicka recovery bonuses, less magicka than other races not enough base spell damage to compensate.
MagSorc has extra stam to break free or roll one more time, maybe -- that's it right there. That's the decider for magsorc!
Now what about stamsorc? Why choose Dunmer over another race?
PvP, Dunmer has some options open still. PvE, not really. There's only cosmetic reasons -- that would be enough for me normally, but not when I've put 4 years of effort in.
Reguard might be better than dunmer, but if your are redguard would sorc be the best class. You want that extra magicka and damage bonus for utilizing dark deal. Redguard has enough stamina it doesn't need any dark deal. But its not going to be able to streak cast ward then dark deal.
OK. So what stam class does Dunmer now have incentive vs other races?
And which mag versions?
Carbonised wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds.
But damage scales off max resource -- the class is equal across both resource pools; that 2500 is split down the middle. This means what is true for mag is also true for stam. Dunmer has:
- 0 stamina recovery bonuses, less stamina than other races, not enough base weapon damage to compensate.
- 0 Magicka recovery bonuses, less magicka than other races not enough base spell damage to compensate.
MagSorc has extra stam to break free or roll one more time, maybe -- that's it right there. That's the decider for magsorc!
Now what about stamsorc? Why choose Dunmer over another race?
PvP, Dunmer has some options open still. PvE, not really. There's only cosmetic reasons -- that would be enough for me normally, but not when I've put 4 years of effort in.
Reguard might be better than dunmer, but if your are redguard would sorc be the best class. You want that extra magicka and damage bonus for utilizing dark deal. Redguard has enough stamina it doesn't need any dark deal. But its not going to be able to streak cast ward then dark deal.
OK. So what stam class does Dunmer now have incentive vs other races?
And which mag versions?
Magicka? None. Dunmer are outclassed by khajiit, altmer and breton for all mag specs, including their signature spec, the magdk. ZOS completely ruined mag specs for dunmers, in favour of buffing them in stamina specs.
Carbonised wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds.
But damage scales off max resource -- the class is equal across both resource pools; that 2500 is split down the middle. This means what is true for mag is also true for stam. Dunmer has:
- 0 stamina recovery bonuses, less stamina than other races, not enough base weapon damage to compensate.
- 0 Magicka recovery bonuses, less magicka than other races not enough base spell damage to compensate.
MagSorc has extra stam to break free or roll one more time, maybe -- that's it right there. That's the decider for magsorc!
Now what about stamsorc? Why choose Dunmer over another race?
PvP, Dunmer has some options open still. PvE, not really. There's only cosmetic reasons -- that would be enough for me normally, but not when I've put 4 years of effort in.
Reguard might be better than dunmer, but if your are redguard would sorc be the best class. You want that extra magicka and damage bonus for utilizing dark deal. Redguard has enough stamina it doesn't need any dark deal. But its not going to be able to streak cast ward then dark deal.
OK. So what stam class does Dunmer now have incentive vs other races?
And which mag versions?
Magicka? None. Dunmer are outclassed by khajiit, altmer and breton for all mag specs, including their signature spec, the magdk. ZOS completely ruined mag specs for dunmers, in favour of buffing them in stamina specs.
What could help situation?
GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds. It seems like a slight pve nerf but a pvp not a nerf or a buff but way to make some interesting builds.
"Slight PvE nerf" on a race that was easily 1-2k behind Altmers to begin with.
Think about the implications, the next time they deny you to join a trial.
GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds. It seems like a slight pve nerf but a pvp not a nerf or a buff but way to make some interesting builds.
"Slight PvE nerf" on a race that was easily 1-2k behind Altmers to begin with.
Think about the implications, the next time they deny you to join a trial.
GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds. It seems like a slight pve nerf but a pvp not a nerf or a buff but way to make some interesting builds.
"Slight PvE nerf" on a race that was easily 1-2k behind Altmers to begin with.
Think about the implications, the next time they deny you to join a trial.
I am not arguing that is BIS. it shouldn't be BIS. Dunmer wasn't BIS even before this. But it's dynamic its a race you can be pretty good at just about anything and that is obivously why they wanted to do go that way. For fun unique builds. It's not going to be hurt that badly to future changes to classes. Bc unlike altmer if your class get's nerfed on the magicka side you can respec to a stam build or vise versa.
Carbonised wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »GarnetFire17 wrote: »I don't know. I don't see it as Hybrid so much. you get 2500 total resources and altmer only gets 2000 running a dumner stam sorc that extra magicka is nice for crit surge and/or streak. the complainers seem to be the ones wanting to cling to their current mag builds.
But damage scales off max resource -- the class is equal across both resource pools; that 2500 is split down the middle. This means what is true for mag is also true for stam. Dunmer has:
- 0 stamina recovery bonuses, less stamina than other races, not enough base weapon damage to compensate.
- 0 Magicka recovery bonuses, less magicka than other races not enough base spell damage to compensate.
MagSorc has extra stam to break free or roll one more time, maybe -- that's it right there. That's the decider for magsorc!
Now what about stamsorc? Why choose Dunmer over another race?
PvP, Dunmer has some options open still. PvE, not really. There's only cosmetic reasons -- that would be enough for me normally, but not when I've put 4 years of effort in.
Reguard might be better than dunmer, but if your are redguard would sorc be the best class. You want that extra magicka and damage bonus for utilizing dark deal. Redguard has enough stamina it doesn't need any dark deal. But its not going to be able to streak cast ward then dark deal.
OK. So what stam class does Dunmer now have incentive vs other races?
And which mag versions?
Magicka? None. Dunmer are outclassed by khajiit, altmer and breton for all mag specs, including their signature spec, the magdk. ZOS completely ruined mag specs for dunmers, in favour of buffing them in stamina specs.
What could help situation?
Dmg stat increase from 258 to 325/340. Provides a burst argument.