Altmer vs Dummer

Cinbri

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

What if the gave more damage for spell and weapon to help hybrids and compassionate for not having sustain like others?

150 to Poison and 150 to Flame could be compelling.

No Disease/Poison or Fire/Lighting damage bonus, Thanks to ZOS for removing limited gameplay options in races.

Gladly zos understood this and got rid of it finally.

aldriq

Maybe a better answer to giving more flexibility and diversity to racial passives would be to provide double morphs... you'd be able to have both some lore flavour and a little more choice for the player.

mairwen85

I think some people in this thread are viewing this from the wrong angle. No dunmer has never been the best race for magicka in TES. The same is true in ESO, both Altmer and breton are superior options, better resource, better sustain, or better resistance - - but the option for viability for dunmer came from the added damage from fire. You still have a hard time as dunmer magsorc, but if you build exclusively for fire, you overcome the weaknesses. Likewise magdk.

The issue is not that dunmer is worse than Altmer or breton with these changes, but that dunmer is worse than dunmer. Every mag class who defined their dunmer with flame damage is retroactively weaker by a large margin, because the one thing that could outweigh bad sustain and lower resource has been taken away. Hence the race loses out, massively. So ZOS should either provide recovery, or boost damage stat to ~310 as that allows building for recovery, or pure burst which makes for a diverse build, whether fire oriented or not.

To retain fire uniqueness, fire abilities restore 300 magicka, or dunmer has a 4% cost reduction on fire abilities... But really, to stay true to the new direction, just the damage buff is enough.

I won't race change either, I'll make it work, but I'll be filled with chagrin if nothing is done.

ToRelax

Dracane wrote: »

People forget that even DDs need health and stamina. Dunmer get a good amount of that, while Altmer has no versatility.
The devs have presented their intended race hierarchy to us and it does make sense lore wise. There is no way Dunmer should be better at pure magic potential than Altmer. The difference between the races are small damage wise and each have their own benefits and drawbacks.

I think Dunmer should get a lower spell damage bonus and instead get a significant fire damage bonus. A bonus that surpasses 258 spell damage by a good amount. This way they are without a question the best with fire magic, but still not the best all around.

Giving different kinds of bonuses to Dunmer would be fine if they were actually an efficient option to build a character. Right now they aren't, because the bonuses are outclassed by things any other race can use as well.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

I would like to see about 150 additional spell damage for fire damage in the last passive.

At this point it looks like my DK will be an Altmer next patch.

I understand they thought but wouldn't that bring issue up making race nich for fire builds again? What about if they had cost reduction with a skill line? What would make them competitive when thinking altmer or dummer?

What's wrong with Dunmer being niche for fire builds?

Maybe someone will come up with a PVP build that uses Dunmer as it is now, but in PvE the passives will not be very compelling after the patch.

That I play a Dunmer mag sorc and TODAY it's a fire build. After patch, it is just trash.

Races should not be limited to specific build, Fire damage need to go anyway or else Dunmer will be MDK puppet only!

I agree, re-adding fire damage would just hold those magicka builds back who aren't DKs.

Tasear

mairwen85 wrote: »

I think some people in this thread are viewing this from the wrong angle. No dunmer has never been the best race for magicka in TES. The same is true in ESO, both Altmer and breton are superior options, better resource, better sustain, or better resistance - - but the option for viability for dunmer came from the added damage from fire. You still have a hard time as dunmer magsorc, but if you build exclusively for fire, you overcome the weaknesses. Likewise magdk.

The issue is not that dunmer is worse than Altmer or breton with these changes, but that dunmer is worse than dunmer. Every mag class who defined their dunmer with flame damage is retroactively weaker by a large margin, because the one thing that could outweigh bad sustain and lower resource has been taken away. Hence the race loses out, massively. So ZOS should either provide recovery, or boost damage stat to ~310 as that allows building for recovery, or pure burst which makes for a diverse build, whether fire oriented or not.

To retain fire uniqueness, fire abilities restore 300 magicka, or dunmer has a 4% cost reduction on fire abilities... But really, to stay true to the new direction, just the damage buff is enough.

I won't race change either, I'll make it work, but I'll be filled with chagrin if nothing is done.

What about a effect when burning status effect procs or any elemental secondary effect?

ToRelax

Tasear wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

I think some people in this thread are viewing this from the wrong angle. No dunmer has never been the best race for magicka in TES. The same is true in ESO, both Altmer and breton are superior options, better resource, better sustain, or better resistance - - but the option for viability for dunmer came from the added damage from fire. You still have a hard time as dunmer magsorc, but if you build exclusively for fire, you overcome the weaknesses. Likewise magdk.

The issue is not that dunmer is worse than Altmer or breton with these changes, but that dunmer is worse than dunmer. Every mag class who defined their dunmer with flame damage is retroactively weaker by a large margin, because the one thing that could outweigh bad sustain and lower resource has been taken away. Hence the race loses out, massively. So ZOS should either provide recovery, or boost damage stat to ~310 as that allows building for recovery, or pure burst which makes for a diverse build, whether fire oriented or not.

To retain fire uniqueness, fire abilities restore 300 magicka, or dunmer has a 4% cost reduction on fire abilities... But really, to stay true to the new direction, just the damage buff is enough.

I won't race change either, I'll make it work, but I'll be filled with chagrin if nothing is done.

What about a effect when burning status effect procs or any elemental secondary effect?

Not a good idea, as the chance of anything proccing is very low until you invest into it, which then makes a massive difference. So you have to balance with the assumption that players basically guarantee procs with their builds, which then forces them to actually build that way to not lose out on their passives, reducing the versatility of the race passives and thus going against what the devs stated they where trying to achieve in the first place.

Savos_Saren

I should point out that Dunmer have, in the past games, had fire damaging abilities that applied directly to their race. So giving Dunmer a bonus to fire or some sort of damage perk with fire is lore friendly.

Skyrim:
Ancestor's Wrath
Opponents getting too close take 8 points of fire damage per second for 60 seconds, once per day.

However, if ZOS wants Dunmer to be the hybrid build- they really, really need to offer some different hybrid sets. Currently, Pelinal's gives you the max bonus of either weapon or spell damage. That's not really "hybrid"- that's just taking one or the other.

The way that armor passives and CP is currently allocated also doesn't really let you take advantage of any particular build, either. If you want to stack weapon damage on a light armor mage- you miss out on 15% weapon damage. If you want to stack spell damage on a medium armor build- you miss out on spell penetration and crit. Or, if you want to try to use both weapon and spell abilities while on heavy armor- you miss out on everything.

No matter what- the hybrid build comes out underwhelming.