Maintenance for the week of January 21:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 21
• PC/Mac: NA and EU for maintenance – January 22, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 09:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox One: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – January 22, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 09:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®4: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – January 22, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 09:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)

Altmer or Dunmer. Which culture is more "advanced"?

  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
    ✭✭✭✭
    I agree it can bring more depth on their lore if their advancement is moot.

    I'd say there is still some 'hidden' background on the Altmer and Summerset.

    Just as I was noticing here : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/413381/environments-of-summerset-and-where-are-the-snows-of-eton-nir#latest
    - we know eventually that huge parts of the Eton Nir massif are still hidden - as seen on a game map - but also probably different from what is displayed in the current Chapter, since its Eternal Snows are confirmed.

    Moreover, don't forget that their should have been huge Orreries in the sky of some major Altmeri cities. And we know they are still 'hidden', like the one in Firsthold that is 'stored somewhere'... and yet to be seen perhaps one day in ESO...

    I think such room for mystery and future content is a major point: hope is not dead because Vvardenfell and Summerset were released.

    TESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophone
    Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50
    Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50
    Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50
    Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50
    Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50
    Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50

  • Valpro
    Valpro
    Soul Shriven
    I feel like saying which one is more "advanced" is weird. Advancement is typically caused by the problems you face and since the dunmer and altmer face different problems、 they would advance in different areas. The old "which on is more -blank" always gets to me because it tends to try to simplify things that aren't done justice when thought of in the binary (group 1 or group 2) sense.
  • dazee
    dazee
    ✭✭✭✭
    Not to mention the fact a talented breton sorcerer for instance could match a telvanni or altmer sorcerer in some situations. Not every member of a race is the same. To believe that someone is superior just becuase of their race is racist.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    psychotrip wrote: »
    So what do you guys think? Who runs a more advanced society? The Altmer, or the Dunmer?
    Both are pretty xenophobic & racist.. so um... none of them ?
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    dazee wrote: »
    Not to mention the fact a talented breton sorcerer for instance could match a telvanni or altmer sorcerer in some situations. Not every member of a race is the same. To believe that someone is superior just becuase of their race is racist.

    No, but we would certainly be able to look at Wayrest and Shimmerene and say that the Altmer are far more advanced in terms of Architecture and City Planning. That's not a moral judgment there.
  • psychotrip
    psychotrip
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Altmer created crystal-like-law

    I believe that was the aldmer, their ancestors. Not the altmer. As are most of their accomplishments it seems
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • psychotrip
    psychotrip
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Neither. No race in Tamriel is any more advanced than any other, with the exception of the races that have been denied opportunities to advance, like Goblins, Minotaurs, or to a much lesser extent, Argonians.

    Dunmer aren't any more advanced than any of the other races, they just managed to have 3 people stumble into godhood thanks to the lanky nerd of their group reverse engineering what the Dwemer did to the Heart of Lorkhan. As a whole, Dunmeri civilization hasn't done anything that is impossible for any other civilization on Tamriel to do under the right circumstances. Creating houses out of carpaces and mushrooms is interesting, but it's not something impossible for another civilization to do had they had giant insects or mushrooms where they lived.

    (Yes, individuals like Divayth Fyr exist, but so do people like Shalidor, Vanus Galerion, and Zurin Arctus)

    Similarly, Altmer aren't more advanced than any other race in Tamriel, they're just obsessed with tradition. Summerset is meant to be a perfect, idealized society, but they aren't really any more advanced than any other society in Tamriel. The Sapiarchs don't teach anything that isn't taught also on Eyevea, and as a whole, again, the Altmer have done nothing that couldn't have been replicated by any other civilization on Tamriel under the same circumstances.

    -QFT-

    Each time one is comparing such thing like "advancement", he's comparing chosen criteria. Why these criteria? Because these criteria comfort the hierarchy he intends to make happen.

    People already reviewed some "relevant" criteria regarding the OP.
    - Magics, I'd say "so-so" : Tribunal/Psijics, Telvanni/Sapiarchs, Red Mountain (robbed of the Dwemer)/Crystal-Like-Law (inherited from the aldmeri)...
    - Architecture : I'd give the point to the Altmer if the value to judge this criterium is refinement
    - Administration : as shown by @Aristocles22 the Altmer win the point if we judge in matters of stillness and order.

    (To sum up, the OP point is that the Altmer are depicted in a very underwhelming manner in ESO. Which is true if one expected some stunning civilisation like the high-elves of Warhammer, Warcraft/WoW or other fantasy settings. In comparison the Altmer seems quite mundane, but from an in-universe perspective, they are not so ...)

    Nah. I just expected something more like previous descriptions, rather than them explaining them all away as exaggerations in an attempt to them less fantastical, alien, and mystical than they were initially inteded to be. What we got is just bland and generic in my opinion, and oddly out of step with the other elven races of tamriel.
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • SomeDogsAreCops
    SomeDogsAreCops
    ✭✭✭
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    You have to take in to account that the altmer accomplished what they did through racial purity and strict standard enforcement.... the dumner did it off the backs of others (slaves). No comparison to really be had there.

    Altmer enslaved argonians so.
    Ebonheart Pact 4L
    Skyrim Belongs To the Nords
    810 CP
    Main: Storm Dancer [Stamsorc]
    I also play
    Healplar
    Tankden
    MagKnight Heal/DPS Hybird
  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
    ✭✭✭✭
    psychotrip wrote: »
    Neither. No race in Tamriel is any more advanced than any other, with the exception of the races that have been denied opportunities to advance, like Goblins, Minotaurs, or to a much lesser extent, Argonians.

    Dunmer aren't any more advanced than any of the other races, they just managed to have 3 people stumble into godhood thanks to the lanky nerd of their group reverse engineering what the Dwemer did to the Heart of Lorkhan. As a whole, Dunmeri civilization hasn't done anything that is impossible for any other civilization on Tamriel to do under the right circumstances. Creating houses out of carpaces and mushrooms is interesting, but it's not something impossible for another civilization to do had they had giant insects or mushrooms where they lived.

    (Yes, individuals like Divayth Fyr exist, but so do people like Shalidor, Vanus Galerion, and Zurin Arctus)

    Similarly, Altmer aren't more advanced than any other race in Tamriel, they're just obsessed with tradition. Summerset is meant to be a perfect, idealized society, but they aren't really any more advanced than any other society in Tamriel. The Sapiarchs don't teach anything that isn't taught also on Eyevea, and as a whole, again, the Altmer have done nothing that couldn't have been replicated by any other civilization on Tamriel under the same circumstances.

    -QFT-

    Each time one is comparing such thing like "advancement", he's comparing chosen criteria. Why these criteria? Because these criteria comfort the hierarchy he intends to make happen.

    People already reviewed some "relevant" criteria regarding the OP.
    - Magics, I'd say "so-so" : Tribunal/Psijics, Telvanni/Sapiarchs, Red Mountain (robbed of the Dwemer)/Crystal-Like-Law (inherited from the aldmeri)...
    - Architecture : I'd give the point to the Altmer if the value to judge this criterium is refinement
    - Administration : as shown by @Aristocles22 the Altmer win the point if we judge in matters of stillness and order.

    (To sum up, the OP point is that the Altmer are depicted in a very underwhelming manner in ESO. Which is true if one expected some stunning civilisation like the high-elves of Warhammer, Warcraft/WoW or other fantasy settings. In comparison the Altmer seems quite mundane, but from an in-universe perspective, they are not so ...)

    Nah. I just expected something more like previous descriptions, rather than them explaining them all away as exaggerations in an attempt to them less fantastical, alien, and mystical than they were initially inteded to be. What we got is just bland and generic in my opinion, and oddly out of step with the other elven races of tamriel.

    If you look at this from the current world design, the Alinor style is relevant to relate with the "derived" style of the Empire and the Bretons. But the exaggeration part is indeed a kind of "treason" of what was described in written in-universe lore, I agree. Alinor should have been more literally crystalline, even if it were some few buildings or one monument only.

    Thinking about it...
    In comparison with Morrowind, something that lacks in the setting of Summerset, is an equivalent for Baar Dau and the Tribunal.
    That's incredible there is nothing levitating in Summerset at all to be witnessed yet. Not any big orrery floating in the sky is a big lack. Maybe they wanted to be very different from the sanctums in Warcraft, idk. The technology is here when you look at the sky of Clockwork City.
    And there is nothing really "divine" in what we see on the island either. The stuff about their ancestry seems quite moot.
    Edited by Ajaxandriel on January 10, 2019 1:21PM
    TESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophone
    Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50
    Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50
    Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50
    Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50
    Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50
    Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50

Sign In or Register to comment.