There's something missing, with ESO's combat and just all the calculations and the CP system, it allows players to be very versatile in these roles (tanks and healers) which is where players explore and come up with such interesting builds because the game allows for that type of versatility. No one has mentioned that several top scores in Cloudrest the healers are wearing Ebon to let the tanks use Torugs to lower the bosses resistances. Why? because you can. Sure these players are very used to stuff like this and learn to build a character up for it themselves, and people like to copy and learn to do that, ESO offers Tanks and Healers to do some interesting stuff. The classes are very fun to play but imo if you want to play those roles at a higher level and by higher I mean the 1% you need to be open minded. And it usually causes a conflict when open minded players try to run this stuff and expect this stuff with people who do not think so which is a lot of what this thread is to begin with.As a person who has studied games and game design, I can say, that it is clear that ESO's design has an emphasis on the concept of Holy Trinity. The concept is almost as old as the MMORPG genre and dungeon crawling. The basis of such concept is 3 cornerstones of a succesful group. Such corner stones are: Damage Dealers, Healers and Tanks. (some games includes also a support role, but this does not seem to be the case in ESO)
Every role has their primary purpose in the group. Damage dealers' purpose is to dish as much damage as possible, healers' purpose is to heal other group members and tanks' purpose is to prevent others from taking damage. There are several ways to fulfill these purposes. This is translated (by "meta players") into:
- damage dealers dishes damage trough having an optimal combination of rotation, skills, items and such
- healer throws enough heals to the group, while trying to not over-heal (unnecessary heals are wasted resources -> unoptimal/less efficiency)
- tank keeps the bad guys still, taunts the bosses and faces them away from the rest of the group.
Most of the players who starts to think about how to measure the efficiency and performance of the group ends up using DPS as their metrics. Why? Because a fight is won by diminishing the bad guy's health to 0. The faster you get the health to 0, the faster the fight is over, so DPS is a valid way to measure the performance.
Now, keeping this information in mind (that group DPS is a good way to measure performance of the group), how could every member of the group improve (=raise the performance of the group) the group? By raising the group DPS. This can be done in various ways, yet again.
If you fill the primary purpose of your role, you can start thinking how you do not waste resources and increase the performance of your group. Do you, as a tank, need all your sets to be defensive? Or can you switch some self-defense sets and still fulfill your primary purpose? As in, are they wasted resources? Maybe not? This is the part where buffing/debuffing comes into play. By buffing the DDs, you increase the group DPS and thus make your group more efficient. By debuffing the boss, you increase the group DPS and thus make your group more efficient.
As a healer, does your gear need to be only focused on healing? Can you heal less without underhealing your group? If not, you can allocate those resources into buff/debuff section yet again to increase the group DPS, thus making your group more efficient.
Now, as a DD. If there is a dead team mate, who could raise them (singular he/she in this case!) without compromising their primary purpose/having the least effect on the group DPS? Yup, a DD. Since dead DD is 0 dps, it is quite detrimental to resurrect them. What are the ways a DD could use to make group more efficient? By improving their own DPS and if they can, by buffing/debuffing. Here comes the math part: is it better for a DD to sacrifice their own resources (and lower their own DPS) to raise others' DPS? Most of the time, the answer is no. DDs runs selfish sets, just because it makes the group more efficient than by not using those selfish sets and using helping sets instead.
Of course, the gaming itself should be enjoyable, because playing is a way to relax. Playing as a whole serves a purpose in our lives, even cats/dogs play. If you do not enjoy and thus relieve your stress levels, is it even worth to play then? I do not think so. (To delve deeper into the definition of meaningful play, check the following spoiler)According to Katie Salen and Eric Zimmerman (Rules of play, 2004, pages 72-81) game is a system, where player commits into an artificial conflict determined by the rules and resulting in a measurable outcome. According to Callois, playing is an action with following properties: free, separate, uncertain, unproductive, regulated by rules, fiction. According to Suits playing a game is a voluntary try to overcome unnecessary obstacles.
There's something missing, with ESO's combat and just all the calculations and the CP system, it allows players to be very versatile in these roles (tanks and healers) which is where players explore and come up with such interesting builds because the game allows for that type of versatility. No one has mentioned that several top scores in Cloudrest the healers are wearing Ebon to let the tanks use Torugs to lower the bosses resistances. Why? because you can. Sure these players are very used to stuff like this and learn to build a character up for it themselves, and people like to copy and learn to do that, ESO offers Tanks and Healers to do some interesting stuff. The classes are very fun to play but imo if you want to play those roles at a higher level and by higher I mean the 1% you need to be open minded. And it usually causes a conflict when open minded players try to run this stuff and expect this stuff with people who do not think so which is a lot of what this thread is to begin with.As a person who has studied games and game design, I can say, that it is clear that ESO's design has an emphasis on the concept of Holy Trinity. The concept is almost as old as the MMORPG genre and dungeon crawling. The basis of such concept is 3 cornerstones of a succesful group. Such corner stones are: Damage Dealers, Healers and Tanks. (some games includes also a support role, but this does not seem to be the case in ESO)
Every role has their primary purpose in the group. Damage dealers' purpose is to dish as much damage as possible, healers' purpose is to heal other group members and tanks' purpose is to prevent others from taking damage. There are several ways to fulfill these purposes. This is translated (by "meta players") into:
- damage dealers dishes damage trough having an optimal combination of rotation, skills, items and such
- healer throws enough heals to the group, while trying to not over-heal (unnecessary heals are wasted resources -> unoptimal/less efficiency)
- tank keeps the bad guys still, taunts the bosses and faces them away from the rest of the group.
Most of the players who starts to think about how to measure the efficiency and performance of the group ends up using DPS as their metrics. Why? Because a fight is won by diminishing the bad guy's health to 0. The faster you get the health to 0, the faster the fight is over, so DPS is a valid way to measure the performance.
Now, keeping this information in mind (that group DPS is a good way to measure performance of the group), how could every member of the group improve (=raise the performance of the group) the group? By raising the group DPS. This can be done in various ways, yet again.
If you fill the primary purpose of your role, you can start thinking how you do not waste resources and increase the performance of your group. Do you, as a tank, need all your sets to be defensive? Or can you switch some self-defense sets and still fulfill your primary purpose? As in, are they wasted resources? Maybe not? This is the part where buffing/debuffing comes into play. By buffing the DDs, you increase the group DPS and thus make your group more efficient. By debuffing the boss, you increase the group DPS and thus make your group more efficient.
As a healer, does your gear need to be only focused on healing? Can you heal less without underhealing your group? If not, you can allocate those resources into buff/debuff section yet again to increase the group DPS, thus making your group more efficient.
Now, as a DD. If there is a dead team mate, who could raise them (singular he/she in this case!) without compromising their primary purpose/having the least effect on the group DPS? Yup, a DD. Since dead DD is 0 dps, it is quite detrimental to resurrect them. What are the ways a DD could use to make group more efficient? By improving their own DPS and if they can, by buffing/debuffing. Here comes the math part: is it better for a DD to sacrifice their own resources (and lower their own DPS) to raise others' DPS? Most of the time, the answer is no. DDs runs selfish sets, just because it makes the group more efficient than by not using those selfish sets and using helping sets instead.
Of course, the gaming itself should be enjoyable, because playing is a way to relax. Playing as a whole serves a purpose in our lives, even cats/dogs play. If you do not enjoy and thus relieve your stress levels, is it even worth to play then? I do not think so. (To delve deeper into the definition of meaningful play, check the following spoiler)According to Katie Salen and Eric Zimmerman (Rules of play, 2004, pages 72-81) game is a system, where player commits into an artificial conflict determined by the rules and resulting in a measurable outcome. According to Callois, playing is an action with following properties: free, separate, uncertain, unproductive, regulated by rules, fiction. According to Suits playing a game is a voluntary try to overcome unnecessary obstacles.
And because of the result in Healers and Tanks it's mostly the mindset of how can we buff our group, what can we do as support to give support to our dd's to make our jobs easier overall. And that's why you got people running these sets.
Well of course, but the main reason is because you can run this, much like Alkosh, Ebon offers no actual stats that are actually helpful for a healer. You can argue the max health bonuses but really it's not needed at all. I don't know if you are suggesting that it is healers gaining survivability but it's more so for the group that needs it not the healer.What I disagree is: "--No one has mentioned that several top scores in Cloudrest the healers are wearing Ebon to let the tanks use Torugs to lower the bosses resistances. Why? because you can. ", the answer is not because you can. (or at least not the full answer, partially it can be explained just by that) It is more likely to be, because that is a viable alternative, where adding survivability via healers creates a way for tanks to increase group performance via debuffs/buffs.There's something missing, with ESO's combat and just all the calculations and the CP system, it allows players to be very versatile in these roles (tanks and healers) which is where players explore and come up with such interesting builds because the game allows for that type of versatility. No one has mentioned that several top scores in Cloudrest the healers are wearing Ebon to let the tanks use Torugs to lower the bosses resistances. Why? because you can. Sure these players are very used to stuff like this and learn to build a character up for it themselves, and people like to copy and learn to do that, ESO offers Tanks and Healers to do some interesting stuff. The classes are very fun to play but imo if you want to play those roles at a higher level and by higher I mean the 1% you need to be open minded. And it usually causes a conflict when open minded players try to run this stuff and expect this stuff with people who do not think so which is a lot of what this thread is to begin with.As a person who has studied games and game design, I can say, that it is clear that ESO's design has an emphasis on the concept of Holy Trinity. The concept is almost as old as the MMORPG genre and dungeon crawling. The basis of such concept is 3 cornerstones of a succesful group. Such corner stones are: Damage Dealers, Healers and Tanks. (some games includes also a support role, but this does not seem to be the case in ESO)
Every role has their primary purpose in the group. Damage dealers' purpose is to dish as much damage as possible, healers' purpose is to heal other group members and tanks' purpose is to prevent others from taking damage. There are several ways to fulfill these purposes. This is translated (by "meta players") into:
- damage dealers dishes damage trough having an optimal combination of rotation, skills, items and such
- healer throws enough heals to the group, while trying to not over-heal (unnecessary heals are wasted resources -> unoptimal/less efficiency)
- tank keeps the bad guys still, taunts the bosses and faces them away from the rest of the group.
Most of the players who starts to think about how to measure the efficiency and performance of the group ends up using DPS as their metrics. Why? Because a fight is won by diminishing the bad guy's health to 0. The faster you get the health to 0, the faster the fight is over, so DPS is a valid way to measure the performance.
Now, keeping this information in mind (that group DPS is a good way to measure performance of the group), how could every member of the group improve (=raise the performance of the group) the group? By raising the group DPS. This can be done in various ways, yet again.
If you fill the primary purpose of your role, you can start thinking how you do not waste resources and increase the performance of your group. Do you, as a tank, need all your sets to be defensive? Or can you switch some self-defense sets and still fulfill your primary purpose? As in, are they wasted resources? Maybe not? This is the part where buffing/debuffing comes into play. By buffing the DDs, you increase the group DPS and thus make your group more efficient. By debuffing the boss, you increase the group DPS and thus make your group more efficient.
As a healer, does your gear need to be only focused on healing? Can you heal less without underhealing your group? If not, you can allocate those resources into buff/debuff section yet again to increase the group DPS, thus making your group more efficient.
Now, as a DD. If there is a dead team mate, who could raise them (singular he/she in this case!) without compromising their primary purpose/having the least effect on the group DPS? Yup, a DD. Since dead DD is 0 dps, it is quite detrimental to resurrect them. What are the ways a DD could use to make group more efficient? By improving their own DPS and if they can, by buffing/debuffing. Here comes the math part: is it better for a DD to sacrifice their own resources (and lower their own DPS) to raise others' DPS? Most of the time, the answer is no. DDs runs selfish sets, just because it makes the group more efficient than by not using those selfish sets and using helping sets instead.
Of course, the gaming itself should be enjoyable, because playing is a way to relax. Playing as a whole serves a purpose in our lives, even cats/dogs play. If you do not enjoy and thus relieve your stress levels, is it even worth to play then? I do not think so. (To delve deeper into the definition of meaningful play, check the following spoiler)According to Katie Salen and Eric Zimmerman (Rules of play, 2004, pages 72-81) game is a system, where player commits into an artificial conflict determined by the rules and resulting in a measurable outcome. According to Callois, playing is an action with following properties: free, separate, uncertain, unproductive, regulated by rules, fiction. According to Suits playing a game is a voluntary try to overcome unnecessary obstacles.
And because of the result in Healers and Tanks it's mostly the mindset of how can we buff our group, what can we do as support to give support to our dd's to make our jobs easier overall. And that's why you got people running these sets.
This idea that only builds from youtube From Alcast and Asian are the only builds that can work in the game, is an assertion of idiocy.
I cant believe how infected the community has become by this idea.
There are sooo many different ways to reach the dps, healing and tanking in this game people.
We really need to turn this around. I recently had some guy tell me in Cloudrest that my tank build was a trash build and I should off tank. I was on with a Sorc Magika Tank with frost staff. He mocked me while I was off mic as he said "I want to be different and not use a build from youtube" (voiced in sarcastic non masculine voice)
I was flabbergasted by the sheer stupidity of this guild leader. I then mic'ed up and asked him, "why is this a trash build?"
He responded, "how are you going to taunt when you get interrupted with staff HA?" I responded, "Um inner fire"
He then asked, "when you run out of magika?" I said "I dont because my recover is at 1800 and I have tri pots and conversion"
Then the last thing I said to him was this,
"Youre an idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself. You should listen to how stupid you sound when you say that a "Youtube Build" is the only way to get the job done. I feel sorry for youre guild because you hold them back.
My builds are better than youtube.
They all wiped from because theyre guild could not execute downstairs correctly.
Adds everywhere. Guess whonwas still standing.
I ended it with this, I could pick you up. But Inwont tank for an idiot.
Then I left.
Guys, Gals, if you are going to watch youtube, please study "The where" and "The Why" something works. Analyze the build in separate elements. The builds are for illustrative purposesonly.
Not one Youtube says this is the only way.
I have seen a lot of builds from people who value theyre builds soo much, they refuse to put the build on youtube. Its okay to think for yourself. Its okay to design youre own build as long as it is effective .
Shokasegambit1 wrote: »I haven't played since summerset but what's funny about this entire post is. There is so much hatred in the eso community that your minds are melted to the point that you all think this is an actual skilled game.
My nephew plays this game also, he's 11 and has almost all vet achievements. But if I put him on Super Mario Bros from NES he can't get past the second level. My point is gaming companys tricked you all to thinking your good at something.
I'd reevaluate your skills in other games, cause your ability to complain about a game that has no future beside role playing is awful.
And honestly there isn't enough diversity to complement theorycrafting the only thing in the game that's skilled.
Hope the game changes next year ... good luck everyone 👌