Youtube Builds - Can We Stop Please?

Lylith

Ajaxduo wrote: »

The issue here isn't YouTubers or any guide's at all, I find it humourous that people want to paint content creators and streamers as these individuals that are to blame for enforcing a metal. No, we really aren't.
The real issue is people going around behaving like there is only one effective way to play and that everyone should adhere to it. Simply put you are never entitled to force others to play a way they don't want to. However, meta will always exist and there is honestly nothing wrong with that in organised trial groups/guilds. A lot of effort gets put in number crunching to help shave off mere seconds of a score board run. Regardless you are never entitled to that min max player when pugging. You are willingly and knowingly signing up for a random dungeon or joining a random pug trial group.
There is no real wrong here other than people spouting opinion like fact imo. I'd say the issue lies with the games balance itself, if I can push 50k with a dual wield bow build but low 40k with a two hander one has to question why is this and has always been the case? I find myself logging in less and less due a noticeable difference in effectiveness and classes become more similar than different.
In 2019 ZoS needs to focus on rebalancing from the ground up, not quick meta nerfs. But seriously find a way to improve and promote diversity among weapon types and classes. Classes already have access to unique buffs and debuffs, perhaps something can be done for weapons. Also hybrids are in the same boat, every patch we get new sets as an ncentive to try hybrids but with the current CP system they will always be miles behind...serious changes need to be made. This isn't to say hybrids and alt builds aren't viable, I can pull 48k with bow bow, but in certain vet content these builds become inefficient and clunky, so pretty much for open world, normal mode and non dlc vet content they are fine. Comparatively these alternative builds are far more than viable enough for majority of the game...
But yeah I'm with all of you on this at some level, but I think people would benefit from taking a step back and accepting that fighting with one another isn't the right thing to do. ZoS has teased at 2019 being the biggest year for ESO and I really hope this is apart of it.

here's hoping.

but i'm not holding my breath.

not anymore.

Lab3360

starkerealm wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

@Svenja, BECAUSE LOGIC AND REASON HAVE NO POWER HERE!

Merry Christmas.

Copying someones work and deeming oneself as an "Authority" and "Expert" is hardly logic or reason.

Merry Christmas

@Lab3360, this may come as a surprise to you, but, in spite of my friendship with Xy, I don't actually use "YouTube Builds." I can see why they will or won't work, and I can decide if there's something worth snarfing and adapting, but if you're thinking I'm clinging blindly to Alcast's and Woeler's builds, you're incredibly mistaken.

No. Never even implied it.

Lab3360

witchdoctor wrote: »

NVM. Its time to celebrate John McClane's victory over Hans Gruber.

Lol

Nifty2g

What do you consider build copying anyway, because most people use the same gear but almost every tank I have played with has different CP and attribute set ups and a different monster set, and different jewellery traits and somewhat different skills. They just wear the same gear, but is gear what really defines a build?

So do you hate Youtube Builds or Gear...

Lab3360

Nifty2g wrote: »

What do you consider build copying anyway, because most people use the same gear but almost every tank I have played with has different CP and attribute set ups and a different monster set, and different jewellery traits and somewhat different skills. They just wear the same gear, but is gear what really defines a build?

So do you hate Youtube Builds or Gear...

Neither.

Ravingar

YEAH IM A MAGICKA WARDEN TANK AND I USE FIVE PIECES LIGHT ARMOUR CAUSE SCREW THE META

(Although it's fortified brass and I get light armour passives so I can heal well)

Daimmyo

I love this thread.

It's unstoppable.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

What do you consider build copying anyway, because most people use the same gear but almost every tank I have played with has different CP and attribute set ups and a different monster set, and different jewellery traits and somewhat different skills. They just wear the same gear, but is gear what really defines a build?

So do you hate Youtube Builds or Gear...

my tank is a battle tank and i dont wear what every one else wears

MarleyRain

ayu_fever wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

as a tank:

-i am not responsible for their max health. build your guy correctly and stop whining. (i am not required to wear ebon)
-i am not responsible for the “l33t deeps” damage output. if they were as “leet” as they think they are, they dont need the alkosh buff. build your guy correctly and stop whining. (i refuse to wear alkosh)
-i will hold aggro on bosses no problem but i will not taunt trash mobs. those leet/fake deeps have a job to do. stop whining and kill it faster while i hold the bigger enemies. DO YOUR JOB TOO!

i refuse to cater to meta chasing dps player sheep.
all these entitled children and punks want it all handed to them.
i am however a diva tank and i dont do that.
everyone has a job, so go do it.
you want to play silly meta nonsense, go join a guild.

if some dps punk runs off i let him die and tell the group not to res him. usually vote to kick the punk. depends on my mood.
if healers dont do their job, i drop aggro and let them get demolished.
it is very satisfying too.

tanks are essential.
dps punks need US more than WE need THEM.

Since you’re basically doing nothing relevant then, I’d say you’re not essential at all.

im sorry who are you?
tanks and healers are NOT slaves to dps.
if you want to play that way, go find some elitist tryhard guild and have at it.

The words he picked couldn't be more perfect. "I'm sorry who are you" lmao Google is a friend for the clueless

MarleyRain

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

adeptusminor

I actually wish more people used youtube build guides. Maybe that would help with the 30.5k health DPS that are running around.

eliisra

I actually agree partly with OP. Just copying a build without understanding it, is a bad idea. Obviously you'll understand it eventually since it's not rocket science, but before that happens people around you will suffer.

Also really cringe when people copy a build online(that has a RP name like "The Bloodhunter" or w/e and outdated af) and than admits it and talks about it to others, like it's a cool thing.

But checking out builds online for inspiration and such, I think it's pretty useful. Especially as a new or returning player, you can get some pointers that way. If you understand why a build is ok or viable, you can make your own version of it, that's better suited for your own personal playstyle.

Iskiab

For myself I can’t see an Equipment set without wanting to test it out. The problems are:

- skill points and guild levels are boring to farm. It takes me 5x the time to farm these things then actually level to 50. If you craft, play multiple roles or pvp you’ll need more than normal too. It’s hard to test all the abilities with such a high opportunity cost, and I bet everyone here has multiple skills they’ve never even put on their bar or picked up
- there are a ton of sets in the game with limited banking and inventory, picking up a new set can be time consuming and costly. There are multiple sets I’ve wanted to try but ended up deconing because I ran out of bank space

So given these things of course people go with cookie cuttter specs. If you know something works you start there.

About the guys in the OP. The dungeons aren’t hard in this game. The weaker the player the more they feel they have to play the best specs, they need every advantage they can get.

John_Falstaff

Oh, and another positive side I see about those cookie-cutter builds is that they give a point of reference to new players.

Suppose a new player decides to eschew those builds and go their own unorthodox, out of the box, novel, meta-defying way. He spends a while getting the gear in place, then tests, and the damage isn't good. What's at fault, gear? Or rotation? Choice of skills and/or morphs? It's difficult to separate all those. Now, if he begins from one of those "YouTube builds", he has a point of reference, he sees rotation and parses, and he knows what can be achieved with that build. He can practice, and he can be sure that the factor of gear is out of the picture - his performance (within the limits defined by that build) is only about his skill. Now, as soon as he's sure he's getting consistently good results close to published, he can test different gear - this time assured that variations of his own performance are small enough to judge about gear's contribution.

So again, don't see anything bad about those builds. When you start (or even when you're still average and trying to improve), there are too many variables to juggle. Freezing a subset of them at near-optimal values (not necessarily best or even the only ones) while optimizing the rest is a great option to have.

CultOfMMO

Lab3360 wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

Why isn't this shitshow of a thread closed yet?
Belittling and offending people because they follow efficient builds, others belittling people because they create their own setups and DONT follow YouTube builds, calling YouTubers out and trashtalking about them..

Seriously.. what is this?


Merry Christmas.

Its the Ytbs who are belittleing for not using "There Way"

No one is trash talking youtube builds. If thats what you get from it, then thats youre problem.

People feeble attempts to shove ytbs down people throats is a problem.

Its not the most efficient just because a youtuber came up with it.

If you read Alcast statement on here.
Even he stated there is more than one way.

Unfortunately, some people just cant seem to grasp that reality.

Yes basically every single youtuber will include some alternative build options. Perhaps its an easier to obtain option with good enough results for beginners that cant possibly get the BiS gear, or its a combination of second rate option that pulls close to but not quite the BiS. Point is with any credible youtuber, like the ones you're quoting, all available options are presented. They're all "viable" relatively speaking, so that's what they mean but there's more than one way.

What you think they mean is that there are still lots of combinations out there that will work just as well, if not better, and they just haven't had the time to test those or simply left those out of the build for w/e reasons. I can tell you for certainty that's not the case, but hey don't listen to me, you can prove everyone in this thread wrong if you post some great videos of you kicking ass with your off meta non-sheeple build, with screenshots of dps/buff parses and or trial hardmode achievements.

It'd be a lot more productive that way to prove your point, and it'd be pretty interesting to see if someone else actually figured out something most ppl haven't. Really though at this point, your post basically says do not follow youtube builds, because its okay to be a trash tier player, nothing wrong with that. Nothing in your post proves you can be remotely half decent if you're not using youtube builds

people are free to play ESO however they want, but understand that next time someone calls you out on your non-youtube build, your answer shouldn't be this is just as effective, it should be I dont mind being bad as long as I'm having fun. Again, nothing wrong with that answer.

also.....Their Way

just thought i should say something cuz you've literally not used there vs their right, not once

SkysOutThizeOut

Yeah, just post them on forums.

JiKama

These content /build creators make these builds as a starting point and not the end all be all. I've used some as a general direction to go in, but swap stuff in and out as needed. Are the builds perfect.... No, but they are a good starting point for those who may be clueless or still learning a class.

Lab3360

JiKama wrote: »

These content /build creators make these builds as a starting point and not the end all be all. I've used some as a general direction to go in, but swap stuff in and out as needed. Are the builds perfect.... No, but they are a good starting point for those who may be clueless or still learning a class.

These people do not understand that. They think that. They believe its the end all be all.

idk

JiKama wrote: »

These content /build creators make these builds as a starting point and not the end all be all. I've used some as a general direction to go in, but swap stuff in and out as needed. Are the builds perfect.... No, but they are a good starting point for those who may be clueless or still learning a class.

I think most that are actually interested in doing good dps understand this.

If you notice, people that post their builds only post them once an update, usually. A good player is constantly trying to improve. I know those I have raided with over the years constantly test tweak and test their builds and we talk about what works.

It is hardly cookie cutter builds among those most interested in getting as much juice out of their character as possible.

However, we should not discount those who theorycraft changes to builds with each update. It is a good service to the game. Many players enjoy other aspects of the game and others just do not have the time to test and test and all that is just fine and dandy.

Merry Christmas.

Olupajmibanan

You mean the Alcast that stated in his magDK build video that BSW is better both-bar option than Silks of the Sun with reasoning that BSW affects all spells and not fire only?

Lab3360

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

Lab3360

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

Why isn't this shitshow of a thread closed yet?
Belittling and offending people because they follow efficient builds, others belittling people because they create their own setups and DONT follow YouTube builds, calling YouTubers out and trashtalking about them..

Seriously.. what is this?


Merry Christmas.

Its the Ytbs who are belittleing for not using "There Way"

No one is trash talking youtube builds. If thats what you get from it, then thats youre problem.

People feeble attempts to shove ytbs down people throats is a problem.

Its not the most efficient just because a youtuber came up with it.

If you read Alcast statement on here.
Even he stated there is more than one way.

Unfortunately, some people just cant seem to grasp that reality.

Yes basically every single youtuber will include some alternative build options. Perhaps its an easier to obtain option with good enough results for beginners that cant possibly get the BiS gear, or its a combination of second rate option that pulls close to but not quite the BiS. Point is with any credible youtuber, like the ones you're quoting, all available options are presented. They're all "viable" relatively speaking, so that's what they mean but there's more than one way.

What you think they mean is that there are still lots of combinations out there that will work just as well, if not better, and they just haven't had the time to test those or simply left those out of the build for w/e reasons. I can tell you for certainty that's not the case, but hey don't listen to me, you can prove everyone in this thread wrong if you post some great videos of you kicking ass with your off meta non-sheeple build, with screenshots of dps/buff parses and or trial hardmode achievements.

It'd be a lot more productive that way to prove your point, and it'd be pretty interesting to see if someone else actually figured out something most ppl haven't. Really though at this point, your post basically says do not follow youtube builds, because its okay to be a trash tier player, nothing wrong with that. Nothing in your post proves you can be remotely half decent if you're not using youtube builds

people are free to play ESO however they want, but understand that next time someone calls you out on your non-youtube build, your answer shouldn't be this is just as effective, it should be I dont mind being bad as long as I'm having fun. Again, nothing wrong with that answer.

also.....Their Way

just thought i should say something cuz you've literally not used there vs their right, not once

My post does not say do not follow ytbs.
And you assume every build is bad if it does not come from youtube is crazy. My builds are effective or they get deleted.
When I feel like posting a build I will.
But Im certainly not going to be pressured.
I will release my builds and parses when im good and ready. But thanks.

Thank you. I am so bad with the their and there. Lol

Lab3360

Lab3360 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

Why isn't this shitshow of a thread closed yet?
Belittling and offending people because they follow efficient builds, others belittling people because they create their own setups and DONT follow YouTube builds, calling YouTubers out and trashtalking about them..

Seriously.. what is this?


Merry Christmas.

Its the Ytbs who are belittleing for not using "There Way"

No one is trash talking youtube builds. If thats what you get from it, then thats youre problem.

People feeble attempts to shove ytbs down people throats is a problem.

Its not the most efficient just because a youtuber came up with it.

If you read Alcast statement on here.
Even he stated there is more than one way.

Unfortunately, some people just cant seem to grasp that reality.

Yes basically every single youtuber will include some alternative build options. Perhaps its an easier to obtain option with good enough results for beginners that cant possibly get the BiS gear, or its a combination of second rate option that pulls close to but not quite the BiS. Point is with any credible youtuber, like the ones you're quoting, all available options are presented. They're all "viable" relatively speaking, so that's what they mean but there's more than one way.

What you think they mean is that there are still lots of combinations out there that will work just as well, if not better, and they just haven't had the time to test those or simply left those out of the build for w/e reasons. I can tell you for certainty that's not the case, but hey don't listen to me, you can prove everyone in this thread wrong if you post some great videos of you kicking ass with your off meta non-sheeple build, with screenshots of dps/buff parses and or trial hardmode achievements.

It'd be a lot more productive that way to prove your point, and it'd be pretty interesting to see if someone else actually figured out something most ppl haven't. Really though at this point, your post basically says do not follow youtube builds, because its okay to be a trash tier player, nothing wrong with that. Nothing in your post proves you can be remotely half decent if you're not using youtube builds

people are free to play ESO however they want, but understand that next time someone calls you out on your non-youtube build, your answer shouldn't be this is just as effective, it should be I dont mind being bad as long as I'm having fun. Again, nothing wrong with that answer.

also.....Their Way

just thought i should say something cuz you've literally not used there vs their right, not once

My post does not say do not follow ytbs.
And you assume every build is bad if it does not come from youtube is crazy. My builds are effective or they get deleted.
When I feel like posting a build I will.
But Im certainly not going to be pressured.
I will release my builds and parses when im good and ready. But thanks.


Thank you. I am so bad with the their and there. Lol

Integral1900

I think they make a useful starting point, a source of ideas, tips and tricks etc

My magic Templar is based on an old deltia build, over time it’s merged with stuff I learned from switching from dps to tanking. Bits a pieces from all over plus a lot of my own experience until I ended up with a dps tank that with a gear and skills swap becomes a more meta (ish) tank. It works for me but god knows if it would for anyone else

If it’s vet trial, hm, etc I have a meta tank, alkosh and Ebon, I use it for nothing else, works great but heavens above it’s a boring thing to play. Maybe it’s just me, only it’s never going to be my build, it’s someone else’s. I only made it because the guild had a shortage. Used to do a lot of vet stuff but now I prefer helping new or casual players in normal, it’s not the difficulty that burned me out, it was the constant bickering, on and on with no one even listening to the other side, it was like watching the blasted news

Not that such a thing would happen here

DeathStalker_X

I utterly despise those who claim their way is the ONLY way. Someone above said it all - build the way you PLAY.

I read DOZENS of forum & Reddit posts that said you could NOT complete the Trial Of The Fang with a single character, let alone a melee character. Well I managed to do it - once I figured out the right STRATEGY! Learn the combos that work for your build - mine happens to be a Templar, so I use Pierce and then Vampire's Bane, because Pierce makes them vulnerable - it also allows for regen of my Stamina that was used for the Pierce.

I HATE copying someone else's build. You play to your strengths, and all builds within a tree should be able to be successful (imho).

Lab3360

Integral1900 wrote: »

I think they make a useful starting point, a source of ideas, tips and tricks etc

My magic Templar is based on an old deltia build, over time it’s merged with stuff I learned from switching from dps to tanking. Bits a pieces from all over plus a lot of my own experience until I ended up with a dps tank that with a gear and skills swap becomes a more meta (ish) tank. It works for me but god knows if it would for anyone else

If it’s vet trial, hm, etc I have a meta tank, alkosh and Ebon, I use it for nothing else, works great but heavens above it’s a boring thing to play. Maybe it’s just me, only it’s never going to be my build, it’s someone else’s. I only made it because the guild had a shortage. Used to do a lot of vet stuff but now I prefer helping new or casual players in normal, it’s not the difficulty that burned me out, it was the constant bickering, on and on with no one even listening to the other side, it was like watching the blasted news

Not that such a thing would happen here

These guys are so serious about Youtube builds and group comp, they are willing to compromise. They are willing to send harrassing an intimidating pm to me. Thats how ridiculous and immature they are.

I could report them and you know who you are. But I dont roll and dont snitch people out. Glad you came to youre senses, cease and desist.

Nevertheless, thats how low some of these followers are.

They were not kidding in The Matrix when they said some people who depend on the system will fight you because they think their lives depend on it.

They literally think their way is the only way.

Stratloc

@Lab3360 you are hilarious. This is so much fun to follow. You should start more completely delusional threads. Have at it!

Lab3360

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

I utterly despise those who claim their way is the ONLY way. Someone above said it all - build the way you PLAY.

I read DOZENS of forum & Reddit posts that said you could NOT complete the Trial Of The Fang with a single character, let alone a melee character. Well I managed to do it - once I figured out the right STRATEGY! Learn the combos that work for your build - mine happens to be a Templar, so I use Pierce and then Vampire's Bane, because Pierce makes them vulnerable - it also allows for regen of my Stamina that was used for the Pierce.

I HATE copying someone else's build. You play to your strengths, and all builds within a tree should be able to be successful (imho).

There are a lot more people who do not copy paste than ytb users. The votes on the thread prove that.

Lab3360

But, for the sake of actual constructive information i will start to ignore people who leave nef

Stratloc wrote: »

@Lab3360 you are hilarious. This is so much fun to follow. You should start more completely delusional threads. Have at it!

Youre even more hilarious, delusional and out of touch considering the amount of people who vote on the actual topic. Hardly anyone agrees with youre psycho babel insults with no substance. Look at how many people vote on youre post. Then look how many supported this post. You are completely dwarfed. Youre not even a blip here but in youre little tiny irrelevant guild or community.

The messages that i get from people who voted, well, lets just say they dont like people like you and I can understand why.

Look in the mirror brother. Youre argument is meritless and produces nothing more than insults that have no effect other than making you look some kind of way which is not good.

The majority of the community are sick and tired of people like you.

Stratloc

Lab3360 wrote: »

But, for the sake of actual constructive information i will start to ignore people who leave nef

Stratloc wrote: »

@Lab3360 you are hilarious. This is so much fun to follow. You should start more completely delusional threads. Have at it!

Yourr even more hilarious, delusional and out of touch considering the amount of people who vote on the actual topic.

The messages that i get from them, well, lets just say they dont like people like tou and I can understand why.

So, go ahead, make youreself look a little more.... well

That's the spirit!
Edit: I like your edit