Youtube Builds - Can We Stop Please?

idk

Lab3360 wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

I think they make a useful starting point, a source of ideas, tips and tricks etc

My magic Templar is based on an old deltia build, over time it’s merged with stuff I learned from switching from dps to tanking. Bits a pieces from all over plus a lot of my own experience until I ended up with a dps tank that with a gear and skills swap becomes a more meta (ish) tank. It works for me but god knows if it would for anyone else

If it’s vet trial, hm, etc I have a meta tank, alkosh and Ebon, I use it for nothing else, works great but heavens above it’s a boring thing to play. Maybe it’s just me, only it’s never going to be my build, it’s someone else’s. I only made it because the guild had a shortage. Used to do a lot of vet stuff but now I prefer helping new or casual players in normal, it’s not the difficulty that burned me out, it was the constant bickering, on and on with no one even listening to the other side, it was like watching the blasted news

Not that such a thing would happen here

These guys are so serious about Youtube builds and group comp, they are willing to compromise. They are willing to send harrassing an intimidating pm to me. Thats how ridiculous and immature they are.

Pretty sure there are no skilled players serious about "youtube" builds.

Lab3360

Lylith wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

The issue here isn't YouTubers or any guide's at all, I find it humourous that people want to paint content creators and streamers as these individuals that are to blame for enforcing a metal. No, we really aren't.
The real issue is people going around behaving like there is only one effective way to play and that everyone should adhere to it. Simply put you are never entitled to force others to play a way they don't want to. However, meta will always exist and there is honestly nothing wrong with that in organised trial groups/guilds. A lot of effort gets put in number crunching to help shave off mere seconds of a score board run. Regardless you are never entitled to that min max player when pugging. You are willingly and knowingly signing up for a random dungeon or joining a random pug trial group.
There is no real wrong here other than people spouting opinion like fact imo. I'd say the issue lies with the games balance itself, if I can push 50k with a dual wield bow build but low 40k with a two hander one has to question why is this and has always been the case? I find myself logging in less and less due a noticeable difference in effectiveness and classes become more similar than different.
In 2019 ZoS needs to focus on rebalancing from the ground up, not quick meta nerfs. But seriously find a way to improve and promote diversity among weapon types and classes. Classes already have access to unique buffs and debuffs, perhaps something can be done for weapons. Also hybrids are in the same boat, every patch we get new sets as an ncentive to try hybrids but with the current CP system they will always be miles behind...serious changes need to be made. This isn't to say hybrids and alt builds aren't viable, I can pull 48k with bow bow, but in certain vet content these builds become inefficient and clunky, so pretty much for open world, normal mode and non dlc vet content they are fine. Comparatively these alternative builds are far more than viable enough for majority of the game...
But yeah I'm with all of you on this at some level, but I think people would benefit from taking a step back and accepting that fighting with one another isn't the right thing to do. ZoS has teased at 2019 being the biggest year for ESO and I really hope this is apart of it.

here's hoping.

but i'm not holding my breath.

not anymore.

Well said.

saggyspandex

youtube not going anywhere. It’s how people use the builds or why they use them. When I started playing the game I used alcast and Deltia and others for guides. Once I got a grip on what dose what in this game that dose a very poor job of explaining things I started branching out on my own. Not everyone dose that, either for lazy reasons or just ignorance. The community is large enough you can find like minded people to run with.

Lab3360

saggyspandex wrote: »

youtube not going anywhere. It’s how people use the builds or why they use them. When I started playing the game I used alcast and Deltia and others for guides. Once I got a grip on what dose what in this game that dose a very poor job of explaining things I started branching out on my own. Not everyone dose that, either for lazy reasons or just ignorance. The community is large enough you can find like minded people to run with.

Agree 100%

MarleyRain

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

. I think you need to go to back and read all of your contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. None of it makes sense and you always have some half assed go to response for anyone who calls you out. I know what I read but do you even remember what you have said?? And if you think I'm going to go back through all this nonsense to copy and paste to prove it you're insane. You have gone back and forth this entire thread about YouTube builds are terrible and 5 sentences down they're great. Just stop already this has been beaten into the ground and stomped on by a dead horse.

Lab3360

MarleyRain wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

. I think you need to go to back and read all of your contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. None of it makes sense and you always have some half assed go to response for anyone who calls you out. I know what I read but do you even remember what you have said?? And if you think I'm going to go back through all this nonsense to copy and paste to prove it you're insane. You have gone back and forth this entire thread about YouTube builds are terrible and 5 sentences down they're great. Just stop already this has been beaten into the ground and stomped on by a dead horse.

Lol. Because you brought nothing of substance to debate. My response to you,

Blah blah blah. Thats all heard from you. Lol

MarleyRain

contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. N

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

. I think you need to go to back and read all of your contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. None of it makes sense and you always have some half assed go to response for anyone who calls you out. I know what I read but do you even remember what you have said?? And if you think I'm going to go back through all this nonsense to copy and paste to prove it you're insane. You have gone back and forth this entire thread about YouTube builds are terrible and 5 sentences down they're great. Just stop already this has been beaten into the ground and stomped on by a dead horse.

Lol. Because you brought nothing of substance to debate. My resoonse to you,

Blah blah blah. Thats all heard from you. Lol

Just look at the title of the thread ffs. You also said tanks and healers should never have to buff the group at all ever. "Buff yourself" you lost any hope you had of being taken seriously. No wonder people don't want you tanking their trials.. Play however you want yes fine great. But don't bash builds that work and make sense that people work hard to put out there for the community.

MarleyRain

Also, this is not a debate anymore. All that can be said about this has been said over and over.

Lab3360

MarleyRain wrote: »

contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. N

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

. I think you need to go to back and read all of your contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. None of it makes sense and you always have some half assed go to response for anyone who calls you out. I know what I read but do you even remember what you have said?? And if you think I'm going to go back through all this nonsense to copy and paste to prove it you're insane. You have gone back and forth this entire thread about YouTube builds are terrible and 5 sentences down they're great. Just stop already this has been beaten into the ground and stomped on by a dead horse.

Lol. Because you brought nothing of substance to debate. My resoonse to you,

Blah blah blah. Thats all heard from you. Lol

Just look at the title of the thread ffs. You also said tanks and healers should never have to buff the group at all ever. "Buff yourself" you lost any hope you had of being taken seriously. No wonder people don't want you tanking their trials.. Play however you want yes fine great. But don't bash builds that work and make sense that people work hard to put out there for the community.

People should have the choice to buff the group ffs. Stop misrepresenting statements. And I dont bash builds.

Go ahead and quote where I bashed a build genius. Find quote and link and I will retract and apologize. But I bet you wont.

Go ahead genius.

MarleyRain

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. N

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

. I think you need to go to back and read all of your contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. None of it makes sense and you always have some half assed go to response for anyone who calls you out. I know what I read but do you even remember what you have said?? And if you think I'm going to go back through all this nonsense to copy and paste to prove it you're insane. You have gone back and forth this entire thread about YouTube builds are terrible and 5 sentences down they're great. Just stop already this has been beaten into the ground and stomped on by a dead horse.

Lol. Because you brought nothing of substance to debate. My resoonse to you,

Blah blah blah. Thats all heard from you. Lol

Just look at the title of the thread ffs. You also said tanks and healers should never have to buff the group at all ever. "Buff yourself" you lost any hope you had of being taken seriously. No wonder people don't want you tanking their trials.. Play however you want yes fine great. But don't bash builds that work and make sense that people work hard to put out there for the community.

People should have the choice to buff the group ffs. Stop misrepresenting statements. And I dont bash builds.

Go ahead and quote where I bashed a build genuis. Find quote and link and I will retract and apologize. But I bet you wont.

Go ahead genuis.

Genius huh? Why thanks. Looks like you're getting a little salty there. You know what's wrong and right at this point. Give it up.

Lab3360

MarleyRain wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. N

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

. I think you need to go to back and read all of your contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. None of it makes sense and you always have some half assed go to response for anyone who calls you out. I know what I read but do you even remember what you have said?? And if you think I'm going to go back through all this nonsense to copy and paste to prove it you're insane. You have gone back and forth this entire thread about YouTube builds are terrible and 5 sentences down they're great. Just stop already this has been beaten into the ground and stomped on by a dead horse.

Lol. Because you brought nothing of substance to debate. My resoonse to you,

Blah blah blah. Thats all heard from you. Lol

Just look at the title of the thread ffs. You also said tanks and healers should never have to buff the group at all ever. "Buff yourself" you lost any hope you had of being taken seriously. No wonder people don't want you tanking their trials.. Play however you want yes fine great. But don't bash builds that work and make sense that people work hard to put out there for the community.

People should have the choice to buff the group ffs. Stop misrepresenting statements. And I dont bash builds.

Go ahead and quote where I bashed a build genuis. Find quote and link and I will retract and apologize. But I bet you wont.

Go ahead genuis.

Genius huh? Why thanks. Looks like you're getting a little salty there. You know what's wrong and right at this point. Give it up.

Like i said genius, the votes on post the post say diffetently. How many do u have? 2?

Dont avoid the question either genius. Support youre stupid statement.

Oh you cant. Keep posting unsupported claims. Blah blah blah

Response u will likely get from here on out and well deserved

MarleyRain

Yeah I understand you don't want it shoved down your throat and that's fine. But the second you enter group content, especially trials, especially as the tank, you will have to perform what is expected of tanks. You obviously didn't because I honestly don't think someone would kick you or call you out purely for having a staff as this is quite common these days. Also this has happened to you only this ONE time, yet as you state its an epidemic of epic proportions.

Lab3360

MarleyRain wrote: »

Yeah I understand you don't want it shoved down your throat and that's fine. But the second you enter group content, especially trials, especially as the tank, you will have to perform what is expected of tanks. You obviously didn't because I honestly don't think someone would kick you or call you out purely for having a staff as this is quite common these days. Also this has happened to you only this ONE time, yet as you state its an epidemic of epic proportions.

Ok. Lets have a conversation. I good with that.

Look, the guy was immediately a jerk. Btw I didnt get kicked. I left because of disrespect. And I would have made changes if asked. But instead of being civil, he chose to bring to such a level, it was hard for me to return. I asmit....i could have handles the situation better. But I didnt.

I dont even have a problem with helping people and buffing groups some how if I am, and here is thenkey word, "Asked."

But when people go to the extent that guy did. Absolutely "NO." I have Ebon, I have powerful assault, I have access to a lot of sets.

Probably will never run Alkosh on any of my tanks unless i make a stam block wall tank. But have not done that...yet.

I will say it again


Alcast, Asian, Kevduit, These guys put hours and hours of work into helping the community. I have nothing but respect for them and there builds.

But it should be a choice when someone decides to run ytb builds or buffs.I dont pug vet trials. I run with 4 different trial guilds. 3 of them dont run ytbs. And thats not a knock

But the irony here is the amount of immediate disrespect which come from ytbs users. They are immediately disrespectful and incapable of underatanding there is more than one way to get through content.

If I have contradicted myself, I beg people to please call me out on it with the quote and reference because it means somewhere in my process there may be conflict I am not aware of at all.

Im allowed to be wrong. But, I wont be bullied. And I hear these horror stories all the time. That trial was the 1st time I ran into that. I have played this game since launch.

And thenFuildnLeaders exact words

"Oh boy guys. We may need to find a replacement. We have a heavy attacking Sorc Tank with an Ice Staff"

Shocked the hell out of me bro.
Thought I had just crossed into the Twilight Zone

Jhalin

The moment you call it an unfair chore to have to give the group some support beyond holding aggro the right mouse key, is the moment you lose all credibility as a knowledgeable player.

A few threads over you started crying about being asked to wear alkosh to help the group, and started all over claiming it should 1) be nerfed 2) have all it’s 2-4 bonuses tuned for tanking 3) never be used by tanks because dps should “buff themselves” 4) be considered a bad set because it requires group play to use well

You’re all over the place with both your opinions and your “arguments”. It’s a wild ride of illogical babble from start to finish.


“YouTube builds”, aka the simplest to understand and most broadly useful builds in the game, are very useful tools. Most players will branch out as their needs call for, or adjust for more niche scenarios. Most builds will also have notes on why certain sets are run over others, or give alternate gear options based on some situations that might not call for their base build setup.

The vast majority of players aren’t going to care about the specifics as long as you’re doing your job. Your job as a tank includes holding aggro on key targets, group enemies, stay alive, buffing the group, debuffing enemies. A damage dealers job is to kill priority targets, keep themselves in a safe position, complete mechanics to avoid damaging the group, rez the dead if needed. A healer provides sustain, healing via burst and HoTs, mitigation tools, buffing the group, and debuffing enemies.

These roles require certain gear setups, some are mathematically better choices for certain fights. Some work well in many fights, and can be adjusted for specifics, the YouTube builds you’re raging against because someone ragged on your Frost staff tanking, after you’ve made it clear to everyone you don’t have any intention of being a group player, which leads me to believe it was never your gear that’s the problem, it was your attitude toward group play.

Lab3360

Jhalin wrote: »

The moment you call it an unfair chore to have to give the group some support beyond holding aggro the right mouse key, is the moment you lose all credibility as a knowledgeable player.

A few threads over you started crying about being asked to wear alkosh to help the group, and started all over claiming it should 1) be nerfed 2) have all it’s 2-4 bonuses tuned for tanking 3) never be used by tanks because dps should “buff themselves” 4) be considered a bad set because it requires group play to use well

You’re all over the place with both your opinions and your “arguments”. It’s a wild ride of illogical babble from start to finish.


“YouTube builds”, aka the simplest to understand and most broadly useful builds in the game, are very useful tools. Most players will branch out as their needs call for, or adjust for more niche scenarios. Most builds will also have notes on why certain sets are run over others, or give alternate gear options based on some situations that might not call for their base build setup.

The vast majority of players aren’t going to care about the specifics as long as you’re doing your job. Your job as a tank includes holding aggro on key targets, group enemies, stay alive, buffing the group, debuffing enemies. A damage dealers job is to kill priority targets, keep themselves in a safe position, complete mechanics to avoid damaging the group, rez the dead if needed. A healer provides sustain, healing via burst and HoTs, mitigation tools, buffing the group, and debuffing enemies.

These roles require certain gear setups, some are mathematically better choices for certain fights. Some work well in many fights, and can be adjusted for specifics, the YouTube builds you’re raging against because someone ragged on your Frost staff tanking, after you’ve made it clear to everyone you don’t have any intention of being a group player, which leads me to believe it was never your gear that’s the problem, it was your attitude toward group play.

Youre crazy if you think someone should set up for an easy normal trial like ncr.

And dont care what you think. Youre in kind of thinking is in the minority.

MarleyRain

If we're going with "votes" here. Then you'd notice you have none. I'm not sitting here and arguing with you as I'm a grown adult. This thread needs to die. As I said... you said yourself this was the only time this "non YouTube discrimination" has happened to you, yet you came here yelling epidemic and it's everywhere. Run with a guild that doesn't care what you do. Problem solved. Don't do group content where there are expectations from the 11 other members. Problem solved. This is ridiculous and completely not going to change anything. People will keep doing what they've been doing but congrats on making this your reputation.

Jhalin

Lab3360 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

The moment you call it an unfair chore to have to give the group some support beyond holding aggro the right mouse key, is the moment you lose all credibility as a knowledgeable player.

A few threads over you started crying about being asked to wear alkosh to help the group, and started all over claiming it should 1) be nerfed 2) have all it’s 2-4 bonuses tuned for tanking 3) never be used by tanks because dps should “buff themselves” 4) be considered a bad set because it requires group play to use well

You’re all over the place with both your opinions and your “arguments”. It’s a wild ride of illogical babble from start to finish.


“YouTube builds”, aka the simplest to understand and most broadly useful builds in the game, are very useful tools. Most players will branch out as their needs call for, or adjust for more niche scenarios. Most builds will also have notes on why certain sets are run over others, or give alternate gear options based on some situations that might not call for their base build setup.

The vast majority of players aren’t going to care about the specifics as long as you’re doing your job. Your job as a tank includes holding aggro on key targets, group enemies, stay alive, buffing the group, debuffing enemies. A damage dealers job is to kill priority targets, keep themselves in a safe position, complete mechanics to avoid damaging the group, rez the dead if needed. A healer provides sustain, healing via burst and HoTs, mitigation tools, buffing the group, and debuffing enemies.

These roles require certain gear setups, some are mathematically better choices for certain fights. Some work well in many fights, and can be adjusted for specifics, the YouTube builds you’re raging against because someone ragged on your Frost staff tanking, after you’ve made it clear to everyone you don’t have any intention of being a group player, which leads me to believe it was never your gear that’s the problem, it was your attitude toward group play.

Youre crazy if you think someone should set up for an easy normal trial like ncr.

And dont care what you think. Youre in kind of thinking is in the minority.

So it’s your belief that the majority of players should not expect anything but a taunt and block from their tanks?

And it’s your thinking that you can wear whatever you want in a trial and no one should say anything even when your choices create an active disadvantage for the group?

No wonder no one wants you in their group, you’re a raid leader’s nightmare.

Lab3360

MarleyRain wrote: »

If we're going with "votes" here. Then you'd notice you have none. I'm not sitting here and arguing with you as I'm a grown adult. This thread needs to die. As I said... you said yourself this was the only time this "non YouTube discrimination" has happened to you, yet you came here yelling epidemic and it's everywhere. Run with a guild that doesn't care what you do. Problem solved. Don't do group content where there are expectations from the 11 other members. Problem solved. This is ridiculous and completely not going to change anything. People will keep doing what they've been doing but congrats on making this your reputation.

My reputation is You have 2 votes. I have 72 minimum.

MarleyRain

Oh and btw

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

If we're going with "votes" here. Then you'd notice you have none. I'm not sitting here and arguing with you as I'm a grown adult. This thread needs to die. As I said... you said yourself this was the only time this "non YouTube discrimination" has happened to you, yet you came here yelling epidemic and it's everywhere. Run with a guild that doesn't care what you do. Problem solved. Don't do group content where there are expectations from the 11 other members. Problem solved. This is ridiculous and completely not going to change anything. People will keep doing what they've been doing but congrats on making this your reputation.

My reputation is You have 2 votes. I have 72 minimum.

Ok so you really are delusional. Thank you for the clarification. There's almost 600 posts in this thread. Probably 400 of which are you. Just because the guy who said "who are you" to woeler kept agreeing with your posts is even more of a reason you should rethink your stance. Lmao

Lab3360

Jhalin wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

The moment you call it an unfair chore to have to give the group some support beyond holding aggro the right mouse key, is the moment you lose all credibility as a knowledgeable player.

A few threads over you started crying about being asked to wear alkosh to help the group, and started all over claiming it should 1) be nerfed 2) have all it’s 2-4 bonuses tuned for tanking 3) never be used by tanks because dps should “buff themselves” 4) be considered a bad set because it requires group play to use well

You’re all over the place with both your opinions and your “arguments”. It’s a wild ride of illogical babble from start to finish.


“YouTube builds”, aka the simplest to understand and most broadly useful builds in the game, are very useful tools. Most players will branch out as their needs call for, or adjust for more niche scenarios. Most builds will also have notes on why certain sets are run over others, or give alternate gear options based on some situations that might not call for their base build setup.

The vast majority of players aren’t going to care about the specifics as long as you’re doing your job. Your job as a tank includes holding aggro on key targets, group enemies, stay alive, buffing the group, debuffing enemies. A damage dealers job is to kill priority targets, keep themselves in a safe position, complete mechanics to avoid damaging the group, rez the dead if needed. A healer provides sustain, healing via burst and HoTs, mitigation tools, buffing the group, and debuffing enemies.

These roles require certain gear setups, some are mathematically better choices for certain fights. Some work well in many fights, and can be adjusted for specifics, the YouTube builds you’re raging against because someone ragged on your Frost staff tanking, after you’ve made it clear to everyone you don’t have any intention of being a group player, which leads me to believe it was never your gear that’s the problem, it was your attitude toward group play.

Youre crazy if you think someone should set up for an easy normal trial like ncr.

And dont care what you think. Youre in kind of thinking is in the minority.

So it’s your belief that the majority of players should not expect anything but a taunt and block from their tanks?

And it’s your thinking that you can wear whatever you want in a trial and no one should say anything even when your choices create an active disadvantage for the group?

No wonder no one wants you in their group, you’re a raid leader’s nightmare.

Show me a quote where i make that statement.

Go ahead reference quote and link.
But you wont becaue as usual, some of just make things up because youre precious "Meta" code word for "do what everyone else is doing" is being challenge.

The thing is I am not even challenging. You guys made that determination.

Shantu

Personally, I appreciate anyone who contributes opinions about builds. Doesn't mean I use their ideas but it has provided useful starting points in creating my own. Not to say there aren't some very judgmental players, but no need to shoot the messenger.

malchior

Alcast/Asian = Apple

'nuff said....

Lab3360

malchior wrote: »

Alcast/Asian = Apple

'nuff said....

Lmfao....They honestly are not the problem

Nolic1

Well so many things to say about this topic but think its best to just walk away as I have heard all this before.

ATreeGnome

If I'm looking for a tank for a vet trial and I have the choice between someone running the meta Alkosh + Torug's or Ebon and you with your undisclosed "better" frost staff build, why should I bring you? The tank buffing the group DPS is making everyone else's job easier and saving time. What are you doing to make the run easier for the group? Non-meta builds are awesome, but if you can't at least come close to matching the value of those benefits then your build is not good for a trial.

idk

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. N

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

MarleyRain wrote: »

This thread was honestly insane to read through lol. Why is this really pointless debate so addicting lol I couldn't stop reading. But I think this guy is honestly trolling one minute YouTube builds and everyone who follows are evil. The next he says they're good and starts agreeing everything said. Next page, it's back to the YouTube builds are for sheeple. This was seriously crazy to read through. Everyone is telling straight facts and it all falls on deaf ears people.

Whats crazy is how you misrepresent here.
Show me where I stated youtube builds are for sheeple.

Post the link and reference please.

Taking things out of context anyone can do.

The irony is I started out with Alacast and Gill. They are solid start for people who need to get into game right away an dont have the time to test.

So please dont try to use my post to discredit them to try to get at me.

Those content creators help the community and they have my respect.
So, stop disrespecting them please.

. I think you need to go to back and read all of your contradicting and hilarious statements you have made. None of it makes sense and you always have some half assed go to response for anyone who calls you out. I know what I read but do you even remember what you have said?? And if you think I'm going to go back through all this nonsense to copy and paste to prove it you're insane. You have gone back and forth this entire thread about YouTube builds are terrible and 5 sentences down they're great. Just stop already this has been beaten into the ground and stomped on by a dead horse.

Lol. Because you brought nothing of substance to debate. My resoonse to you,

Blah blah blah. Thats all heard from you. Lol

Just look at the title of the thread ffs. You also said tanks and healers should never have to buff the group at all ever. "Buff yourself" you lost any hope you had of being taken seriously. No wonder people don't want you tanking their trials.. Play however you want yes fine great. But don't bash builds that work and make sense that people work hard to put out there for the community.

People should have the choice to buff the group ffs.

Based on the post you replied to this is about tanks and healers and the gear they wear. Tanks and healers always have a say in what gear the will wear but that also affects who they run with.

Often when a solid raid group is learning brand new content tanks and healers tend to play it safe and wear sets that help their own survival. After than they will coordinate sets and go to the buff sets.

Of course we are talking about organized teams. Core teams that consist of a regular roster and even some pugs.

At least twice I have been on core teams where a new tank refused to change gear. That was their choice and it was the raid leaders choice to replace them. Neither party was wrong and both tanks found work elsewhere.

I have even seen raid leaders tell a tank to swap a buff set for more health because the tank was having some survival issues getting used to the MT vs OT role. Yes, they had a choice.

However, that situation is uncommon. Usually tanks that reach that level are willing to wear the sets requested and are confident enough in their tanking to handle it. Even though these experiences are from top raid groups I also run with groups working on the early progression and still see these sets requested. The same choice is present. Good tanks will not run with bad raid leads and good raid leads do not have to deal with uncooperative tanks.

witchdoctor

idk wrote: »

Usually tanks that reach that level are willing to wear the sets requested and are confident enough in their tanking to handle it.

*Players* at that level, whether tanks, healers, or DPS, are, for lack of a better word, professional enough to not get phased by the idea of changing gear. Ebon, Alkosh, Olorime, SPC, WM, VO, RQ, AY, et. al., are just tools in the tool box. Competent players realise there is a different tool for different scenarios - and think nothing of adapting to the scenario at hand.

The OP's posting history is ... messy. I won't make any disparaging inferences off the story presented in the OP or from any of the ... boasts.

What I will give the OP is that there are multiple levels of player skill and capability. There are those who ... wish to be seen as part of the community IDK, Concret, Nifty, and others discuss, but who don't actually belong. Typically, even if they have the skill, their interpersonal temperament ostracises them in short order. Perhaps the OP ran into that crowd, and as such has come to the interesting conclusions put forward here.

In short, I think the OP is best served by realising: 1) MMOs, like the internet as a whole, is stuffed full of jerks; and 2) his play time will be best enjoyed with like-minded people. If the OP truly is a part of several, non-meta raid guilds, then ... they should have no trouble.

Otherwise, this thread, and its twin, are just full of inconsistent rambling.

Lab3360

witchdoctor wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Usually tanks that reach that level are willing to wear the sets requested and are confident enough in their tanking to handle it.

*Players* at that level, whether tanks, healers, or DPS, are, for lack of a better word, professional enough to not get phased by the idea of changing gear. Ebon, Alkosh, Olorime, SPC, WM, VO, RQ, AY, et. al., are just tools in the tool box. Competent players realise there is a different tool for different scenarios - and think nothing of adapting to the scenario at hand.

The OP's posting history is ... messy. I won't make any disparaging inferences off the story presented in the OP or from any of the ... boasts.

What I will give the OP is that there are multiple levels of player skill and capability. There are those who ... wish to be seen as part of the community IDK, Concret, Nifty, and others discuss, but who don't actually belong. Typically, even if they have the skill, their interpersonal temperament ostracises them in short order. Perhaps the OP ran into that crowd, and as such has come to the interesting conclusions put forward here.

In short, I think the OP is best served by realising: 1) MMOs, like the internet as a whole, is stuffed full of jerks; and 2) his play time will be best enjoyed with like-minded people. If the OP truly is a part of several, non-meta raid guilds, then ... they should have no trouble.

Otherwise, this thread, and its twin, are just full of inconsistent rambling.

Massive_Stain

Lab3360 wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

You had me until you started getting all aggressive and then asserted "My builds are better than youtube" and admitted to getting into childish name-calling bouts.

Although I try different builds for myself and agree that we shouldn't just assume that if someone is running something different, they aren't any good, these builds that Alcast and others put out are great for newer players learning the game to get into a viable build. There is a LOT to this game, having a starting point that is proven to work is not a bad thing.

Being the 'last man standing' doesn't prove anything other than that you're good at pushing some buttons. Congrats on surviving a long time like every other tank in the game? Nothing is as annoying to those of us who have tanked in many a game than the tank who thinks he's legit because he 'lives a long time' long after his/her group is dead.

Tanks should be leaders calling the shots, so if you're confident in your tanking ability/ build and the group was failing, the correct option would be to explain the fight to the group regardless of one annoying person rather than engaging in a name calling session and ducking out making 10 other people left standing around because you couldn't ignore one person.

My builds are better than youtune because theybare for me. Youtube builds are not good to boot.

And yes, I am aggressive. Im going to be aggressive when it come to this topic. Someone has to stand up. Too many people being bullied because of
Youtube Buildz.

As far as tanks being the last one standing. Wow are you wrong. Seen lots ofnyoutune tanks go down. Also when you're pugging as a tank and youre running with different guild than youre own, youre not always going to lead and command. Did you not here the part of off tanking btw?
I think youre offended somewhere deep inside. Dont know why. Dont care.

There's a difference between meta builds and what you continue to call a "YouTube" build. Maybe you should clear that up first. And the guy that said tanks are supposed to lead is correct. If your group is having a dps leading, well you've got more issues than a dark deal using sorc tank tbh.

Woeler

ayu_fever wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

as a tank:

-i am not responsible for their max health. build your guy correctly and stop whining. (i am not required to wear ebon)
-i am not responsible for the “l33t deeps” damage output. if they were as “leet” as they think they are, they dont need the alkosh buff. build your guy correctly and stop whining. (i refuse to wear alkosh)
-i will hold aggro on bosses no problem but i will not taunt trash mobs. those leet/fake deeps have a job to do. stop whining and kill it faster while i hold the bigger enemies. DO YOUR JOB TOO!

i refuse to cater to meta chasing dps player sheep.
all these entitled children and punks want it all handed to them.
i am however a diva tank and i dont do that.
everyone has a job, so go do it.
you want to play silly meta nonsense, go join a guild.

if some dps punk runs off i let him die and tell the group not to res him. usually vote to kick the punk. depends on my mood.
if healers dont do their job, i drop aggro and let them get demolished.
it is very satisfying too.

tanks are essential.
dps punks need US more than WE need THEM.

Since you’re basically doing nothing relevant then, I’d say you’re not essential at all.

im sorry who are you?
tanks and healers are NOT slaves to dps.
if you want to play that way, go find some elitist tryhard guild and have at it.

Me? I'm just a tank who is more essential and has less of an attitude. As not doing anything relevant and having an attitude usually doesn't get people very far in life.

Nobody is talking about slaves. To quote yourself "everyone has a job, so go do it". Refusing to wear sets, or letting people die on purpose doesn't make you the coolkid (even though you seem to assume so), it just makes you irrelevant. I mean, what's probably even more "satisfying" than "letting group members die", is the vote kick your group mates will initiate.

No idea when not doing/failing to do something became an achievement to boast about.

Getting a dungeon done is team effort of four people, but with your attitude it's more like three people and a dead weight. And that is exactly what this thread is about, it has nothing to do with builds, but with the attitude of certain players. Lo and behold a prime example.