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Youtube Builds - Can We Stop Please?
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭
You want to know why people say that as if it wasn't clear from some of the replies in this thread, they say that because you can heal or tank just as efficiently and keep your group alive and yourself alive with those sets, so it's a question of why not do that, is it because you have never seen this in "40 years of gaming and mmo's", isn't this a case of times change, and games are different than one another? ESO's combat allows some pretty cool stuff to be done
Healers and tanks are like 2nd rate to dps in this game. They say support youre team when really they mean help me dps more.People should stop using leaderboard builds and tactics in non-leaderboard situations and most of these problems would go away.
Please put on that medium dps set to help me dps more. Healer put in that buff set to help dps more.
You will not stay alive in that set up under condition of a full wipe, and no healee with that set up in difficult vet trials as a tank.
A tanks main job is to recover a wipe if need be.
Asking a tank to put on a "dps set" not tanking. Its cheese and I am going to do everything in my power to get devs to change it.
Thus behavior needs to stop so that healers and tanks can actually enjoy there roles without encroachment.
Healers and tanks are not 2nd rate roles to dps. This is unacceptable.Edited by Lab3360 on December 20, 2018 2:47PM1 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭- Heroic Slash: applies minor maim decreases the enemies damage by 15%. It also grants you minor heroism, therefore faster ultimate generation and more warhorns.
- Pierce armor: taunt and debuffs the enemies resistances, therefore your damage dealers can do more damage.
- crusher and weakening enchants: pretty much the same as above, makes the enemy hit for less and the dds do more (even more powerful with torugs pact)
- Engulfing flames: damage buff for all fire abilities among your dds (also restores magicka, when ele drain is applied)
- Obsidian shield: grants you and your allies a damage shield (protects them), provides minor brutality for the group and also grants you major mending, making your healing stronger.
- Lightning blockade (if lightning staff equipped): can concuss and offbalance enemies, so they take more damage and maybe some dds can restore resources.
- Choking talons: Aoe root and aoe minor maim
- Silver leash/ fiery grip: Pulls enemies towards you inside the aoe damage of your group, also bringing the enemy in range for melee skills.
- Crushing shock: ranged interrupt, really important in trials like AS.
- elemental drain: yes also a tank can use this skill, for example in cloudrest to debuff the crystals.
- Vigor: some little bit of offhealing for the group
- Warhorn: Increases critical damage of your whole group and provides them with bigger stats.
- Ebony armor: Increases the health pool of the whole time, makes it survive more (especially important now, since magicka damage shields have a health based cap)
- Alkosh: Again reduces the enemies resistances
- Dragon guard: cheaper ultimates, more warhorn
- Bloodspawn: better survival and more ultimates
- Lord warden: higher resistances for many people, making them survive longer
- Thurvokuun: Aoe minor maim, a nice set for classes without much chances to apply maim
- Powerful assault: More damage for your group members, when you heal yourself with vigor
As you see, all those skills (I just listed weapon and dk skills right now for a comparison to what an actual tank should do) and sets benefit the group and therefore are part of the support and tank role. A competent tank adapts to the trials, equips weapons and skills accordingly, so that he can provide as much as possible from all of the above mentioned skills and sets. It is possible to maintain not only selfsurvival and the taunt, also there is so much time to add all those support factors. And no, it is not cheese to help your healers with offhealing or your dds with buffing their damage, its group play.7 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭
Are you saying you can only do one of those at a time, why can't you mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team AND debuff a boss while also buffing your groupDjMuscleboy02 wrote: »
What else is a tank going to do? An experienced tank can debuff/allow DPS to do more damage without compromising themselves. That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.
Thats not a tanks job. And it has never been a tanks job traditionally in mmos.
I feel that is just watering down tanks and healers.
I have worn Alkosh, Ebon, Torugs in content I am very comfortable. I have a Nb Tank Health, Dk Tank Health, Sorc Tank Magika, Templar Health Magika,
What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
No0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭The YouTube builds are effective even if used by someone who doesn't really understand how to play the game (which is a lot of people) there are armour sets which will carry the user and hide glaring errors so they definitely have their place otherwise the gap between good and bad players would be even bigger than current and carrying people is becoming frustrating where as before I was happy to do, my gears are getting ground unfortunately.
Group composition is another thing, the game is in a weird position at the minute when dps can rip 70+k single target dps and bypass a lot of mechanics its just faster to burn baby burn.
So to buff dps as much as possible just makes it faster, I get it when someone dies and it would have been faster to run some kind of durability in there but im talking best case the best dps will make it faster.
The content is very stale and boring at the minute so for me getting it over and done with quickly is always a bonus.
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Are you talking about trials here or dungeons?
You want to know why people say that as if it wasn't clear from some of the replies in this thread, they say that because you can heal or tank just as efficiently and keep your group alive and yourself alive with those sets, so it's a question of why not do that, is it because you have never seen this in "40 years of gaming and mmo's", isn't this a case of times change, and games are different than one another? ESO's combat allows some pretty cool stuff to be done
Healers and tanks are like 2nd rate to dps in this game. They say support youre team when really they mean help me dps more.People should stop using leaderboard builds and tactics in non-leaderboard situations and most of these problems would go away.
Please put on that medium dps set to help me dps more. Healer put in that buff set to help dps more.
You will not stay alive in that set up under condition of a full wipe, and no healee with that set up in difficult vet trials as a tank.
A tanks main job is to recover a wipe if need be.
Asking a tank to put on a "dps set" not tanking. Its cheese and I am going to do everything in my power to get devs to change it.
Thus behavior needs to stop so that healers and tanks can actually enjoy there roles without encroachment.
Healers and tanks are not 2nd rate roles to dps. This is unacceptable.
If you're talking about dungeons, depending on the dungeon I can survive just fine and recover a run.
If you're talking about trials, then again depending on what boss there just isn't exactly a way to recover a full wipe, you will just get snowballed down. Not exactly sure what scenario you're talking about here but theres not many you can fully recover from. You're delusional if you think it is possible to do, or you just haven't done much content.
And I have to ask, what happens when your team mates stop dying, are you just going to go in with a useless build?Edited by Nifty2g on December 20, 2018 2:57PM#MOREORBS3 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
I am the healer =p I support the Tank and DPS and Healers with buffs to their sustain, DPS, and mitigation.
Olorime and Worm Cult (Increased Spell Damage & Reduced Magicka Cost). I use Luminous Shards for the Melee/Tank and Orbs for the Ranged. I use Combat Prayer on the Melee and Tank to increase their DPS and Mitigation. I use Extended Ritual for Purify. I use Siphon Spirit also for Sustain and Healing.
My job is to support everyone, and keep them alive.
I have a healer with the same set up.
Olorime is a healer set because it increases youre heals. The extra bene is the buff.
Not even close to the scenario of asking a tank to dawn dps gear when none of the trsits help the tank its job better. Everything you listed helps you heal more effectively0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You want to know why people say that as if it wasn't clear from some of the replies in this thread, they say that because you can heal or tank just as efficiently and keep your group alive and yourself alive with those sets, so it's a question of why not do that, is it because you have never seen this in "40 years of gaming and mmo's", isn't this a case of times change, and games are different than one another? ESO's combat allows some pretty cool stuff to be done
Healers and tanks are like 2nd rate to dps in this game. They say support youre team when really they mean help me dps more.People should stop using leaderboard builds and tactics in non-leaderboard situations and most of these problems would go away.
Please put on that medium dps set to help me dps more. Healer put in that buff set to help dps more.
You will not stay alive in that set up under condition of a full wipe, and no healee with that set up in difficult vet trials as a tank.
A tanks main job is to recover a wipe if need be.
Asking a tank to put on a "dps set" not tanking. Its cheese and I am going to do everything in my power to get devs to change it.
Thus behavior needs to stop so that healers and tanks can actually enjoy there roles without encroachment.
Healers and tanks are not 2nd rate roles to dps. This is unacceptable.
The tanks job is not to recover a wipe. A tanks job is to hold the boss, control the adds, debuff them all and support your group. In all new trials, you achieve nothing by being tanky and being the last man standing, because as soon as you drop the block for a rez, you will receive a one hit mechanic, or you get somebody up with half health, which dies to the next mechanic, maybe you even lose the taunt on the boss in that time. It is not the tanks job to rez people.5 -
bitels✭✭✭✭I agree with going outside other ppl builds when it comes to making your own char.
But when it comes to tanking for me its simple- if you want to be selfish, use only sets that benefit your survivor and to not support your group, then dont be suprised if ppl wont run with you.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
I am the healer =p I support the Tank and DPS and Healers with buffs to their sustain, DPS, and mitigation.
Olorime and Worm Cult (Increased Spell Damage & Reduced Magicka Cost). I use Luminous Shards for the Melee/Tank and Orbs for the Ranged. I use Combat Prayer on the Melee and Tank to increase their DPS and Mitigation. I use Extended Ritual for Purify. I use Siphon Spirit also for Sustain and Healing.
My job is to support everyone, and keep them alive.
I have a healer with the same set up.
Olorime is a healer set because it increases youre heals. The extra bene is the buff.
Not even close to the scenario of asking a tank to dawn dps gear when none of the trsits help the tank its job better. Everything you listed helps you heal more effectively
its a healer set, because there is a 4% healing done bonus in it.....that is really ridiculous.
Olorime and spellpower cure are healing sets, because it supports the group.
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »
What else is a tank going to do? An experienced tank can debuff/allow DPS to do more damage without compromising themselves. That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.
Thats not a tanks job. And it has never been a tanks job traditionally in mmos.
I feel that is just watering down tanks and healers.
I have worn Alkosh, Ebon, Torugs in content I am very comfortable. I have a Nb Tank Health, Dk Tank Health, Sorc Tank Magika, Templar Health Magika,
What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
At this point, I can't tell if you're trolling or just don't comprehend what I'm saying. It's watering down tanks and healers to expect them to do more than stand there doing nothing? Sorry if I expect the players in my group to perform at a high level and to be capable of performing more than 1 task at a time. This isn't "traditional mmos," it's a different game. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're Eso Daily with all this nonsense about 40 years of gaming.
You can call me whatever you want. There are enough people who are sick and tired of this who want change.
We will see if its nonsense when it gets addressed.
Youre WelcomeEdited by Lab3360 on December 20, 2018 3:07PM0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
I am the healer =p I support the Tank and DPS and Healers with buffs to their sustain, DPS, and mitigation.
Olorime and Worm Cult (Increased Spell Damage & Reduced Magicka Cost). I use Luminous Shards for the Melee/Tank and Orbs for the Ranged. I use Combat Prayer on the Melee and Tank to increase their DPS and Mitigation. I use Extended Ritual for Purify. I use Siphon Spirit also for Sustain and Healing.
My job is to support everyone, and keep them alive.
I have a healer with the same set up.
Olorime is a healer set because it increases youre heals. The extra bene is the buff.
Not even close to the scenario of asking a tank to dawn dps gear when none of the trsits help the tank its job better. Everything you listed helps you heal more effectively
Helps me heal, and supports the group with the buffs I listed and how I use them.
In terms of wearing Weapons and Jewelry of Alkosh, yeah it is a DPS set. If you can find a Tank set that provides the debuff it does, I would think that would be a perfectly fine exchange.
(Reduces the Physical and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.)
In Vet Trails, hitting the Penetration Cap is very difficult for DPS. Which is why Tanks are inclined to help with that as much as they can.
Even in WoW Warrior Tanks would use Sunder Armor to help with penetration. So it isn't a new concept.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc3 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭The tanks job is not to recover a wipe. A tanks job is to hold the boss, control the adds, debuff them all and support your group. In all new trials, you achieve nothing by being tanky and being the last man standing, because as soon as you drop the block for a rez, you will receive a one hit mechanic, or you get somebody up with half health, which dies to the next mechanic, maybe you even lose the taunt on the boss in that time. It is not the tanks job to rez people.
We are constantly reminding our DPS of this. It pains me to see Tanks or Healers rezing people. 8 DPS all frothing at the mouth trying to pour out as much DPS as possible, completely ignoring the dead person right under their feet. As a healer, I can only stand to watch that for so long before I either have to call someone out to get the rez going, or I just do it myself.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc3 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »
What else is a tank going to do? An experienced tank can debuff/allow DPS to do more damage without compromising themselves. That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.
Thats not a tanks job. And it has never been a tanks job traditionally in mmos.
I feel that is just watering down tanks and healers.
I have worn Alkosh, Ebon, Torugs in content I am very comfortable. I have a Nb Tank Health, Dk Tank Health, Sorc Tank Magika, Templar Health Magika,
What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
At this point, I can't tell if you're trolling or just don't comprehend what I'm saying. It's watering down tanks and healers to expect them to do more than stand there doing nothing? Sorry if I expect the players in my group to perform at a high level and to be capable of performing more than 1 task at a time. This isn't "traditional mmos," it's a different game. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're Eso Daily with all this nonsense about 40 years of gaming.
You can call me whatever you want. There are enough people who are sick and tired of this who want change.
We will if its nonsense when it gets addressed.
Youre Welcome
Well I guess you can wait a very long time till anything changes with tanks and healers being not only tanks and healers, but also supporters. Existing trials in ESO will not change and new ones probably will not be different either.5 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »kathandira wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
I am the healer =p I support the Tank and DPS and Healers with buffs to their sustain, DPS, and mitigation.
Olorime and Worm Cult (Increased Spell Damage & Reduced Magicka Cost). I use Luminous Shards for the Melee/Tank and Orbs for the Ranged. I use Combat Prayer on the Melee and Tank to increase their DPS and Mitigation. I use Extended Ritual for Purify. I use Siphon Spirit also for Sustain and Healing.
My job is to support everyone, and keep them alive.
I have a healer with the same set up.
Olorime is a healer set because it increases youre heals. The extra bene is the buff.
Not even close to the scenario of asking a tank to dawn dps gear when none of the trsits help the tank its job better. Everything you listed helps you heal more effectively
Helps me heal, and supports the group with the buffs I listed and how I use them.
In terms of wearing Weapons and Jewelry of Alkosh, yeah it is a DPS set. If you can find a Tank set that provides the debuff it does, I would think that would be a perfectly fine exchange.
(Reduces the Physical and Spell Resistance of any enemy hit by 3010 for 10 seconds.)
In Vet Trails, hitting the Penetration Cap is very difficult for DPS. Which is why Tanks are inclined to help with that as much as they can.
Even in WoW Warrior Tanks would use Sunder Armor to help with penetration. So it isn't a new concept.
Its a medium set. Thats a dps set on a tank. Fact.1 -
Joker99✭✭✭This guy will singlehandedly change how this game works guys, case closed, we can go home, ZOS can go home, this is his game now, with his 40 years of experience in domain he literally knows how everything is supposed to fall in place.
It's pretty *** hypocritical btw that you're telling people to play how they want and then complain about it. You are absolutely delusional and this thread should be closed, you have nothing to add to the community, don't think you know what you're talking about because you know the mechanics of 2 trials. [edited]Edited by ZOS_RogerJ on December 20, 2018 5:11PMPC-EU
DPS Slave:
StamNB, MagNB, MagPlar, MagDK, StamDK, StamWarden
Mostly just a scrub. Not even max CP.Actually max CP.12 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
What are you on? The goal of the fight is to kill the boss, not stand there mitigating damage to see how long you can survive.
Also, just because a set is medium doesn't make it a dps set. Christ, do you even read what sets do? Dps literally use a heavy armor set in the "meta" right now, does that make them tanks?Edited by DjMuscleboy02 on December 20, 2018 3:10PMBrodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger9 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »The tanks job is not to recover a wipe. A tanks job is to hold the boss, control the adds, debuff them all and support your group. In all new trials, you achieve nothing by being tanky and being the last man standing, because as soon as you drop the block for a rez, you will receive a one hit mechanic, or you get somebody up with half health, which dies to the next mechanic, maybe you even lose the taunt on the boss in that time. It is not the tanks job to rez people.
We are constantly reminding our DPS of this. It pains me to see Tanks or Healers rezing people. 8 DPS all frothing at the mouth trying to pour out as much DPS as possible, completely ignoring the dead person right under their feet. As a healer, I can only stand to watch that for so long before I either have to call someone out to get the rez going, or I just do it myself.
Its because they have it in there heads they matter the most. Eveyone else is their to support them.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
What are you on? The goal of the fight is to kill the boss, not stand there mitigating damage to see how long you can survive.
Also, just because a set is medium doesn't make it a dps set. Christ, do you even read what sets do? Dps literally use a heavy armor set in the "meta" right now, does that make them tanks?
but....but...there is minor slayer on alkosh.....3 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭Wow this thread was an adventure to read through. Ill chuck in my 2 cents on this. Well... more than 2, this is gonna be a lengthy response since this thread is over 10 pages lol.
It's really easy to point the finger at YouTubers and Streamers as "the problem", since those people are the ones that are putting themselves out there and putting out information. But, in my opinion, the creators themselves arent the problem, but rather the hive mind and lack of perspective that some players who watch content creators have.
I personally think that that is one of the biggest problems right now, perspective and perception. I recently started tanking on my Nightblade, and it's been a blast. Granted, have I tanked vHoF or vMoL yet, no (one day tho! working on the guild progression through trials now). but i've been able to tank through the vet HM DLC dungeons with no problems or issues - and surprise, im not a DK. Ive even had countless people in my streams shocked that we completed vet DLC dungeons with no issues even tho i am a NB tank. The idea that certain classes arent viable in certain roles or certain playstyles arent viable because the community has assigned "DK" to tank and "Templar" to healer or whatever to whatever is more of a result of community perception than anything else - ZoS has made great strides recently in making the "non traditional" tanks and healers better, and the gap is quickly closing. If someone is going to kick you from a group because you arent X class or youre using X weapon without even trying to run the dungeon, that has nothing to do with content creators and everything to do with that person being a ridiculous human being.
With that being said tho, you need to be realistic with yourself and the type of content that you want to complete, and i preach that all the time. If you want to be an overlands adventurer, you dont need to run siroria or relequen, you can do whatever you want - the possibilities are pretty endless. Normal and vet dungeons offer a lot of freedom in what you can run as well, same for PvP since that's highly individual. Once you get into trials tho, imo, the game changes a bit. As i said earlier, you need perspective. If you're going for score runs, the reality is that you may need to fall in line with a more "meta" setup because those have been shown to perform the best within the confines of the current state of the game. If you're going for completion though, things change and alot more freedom opens up. Granted, you still want to make sure certain buffs/debuffs optimal for a raid's success are present and that the DPS hit a minimum threshhold, but it doesnt matter if your DPS are pulling 50k or 55k, your tanks arent both DKs, or your healers arent both templars. youre going for completion not cutting-edge score pushing. Id rather be with someone pulling 50k happy with their build than 55k who feels sad that they cant use a setup they came up with themselves and just strapped on meta gear.
If I was the OP's raid leader, i would have at the very least tried. If the encounter failed a couple times on account of the tank not being able to perform, then that tank either has to change their build to something more "traditionally effective" or re-evaluate how their current setup is configured - maybe their build is not as good as they once thought and now they have that quantitative proof.
Just remember: many content creators who post builds arent saying RUN THIS OR DIE. Rather, "this is what I run and i find effective. if you dont like something, change it to fit YOUR playstyle, and if you dont like the build, that's fine, dont run it." For whatever reason, this disclaimer is widely ignored, but it needs to not be.
Also, you do need to try and understand tho why many content creators post those similar setups on their site. Many times, when people are going to YouTube or a website for a build, they tend to be looking for an optimal setup for their role for really high tiered content, which is why many creators post those "optimized" builds. There are some variations but overall many are similar. I know many players do also post themed builds/things more out of the box, but those normally have a disclaimer that "hey, this build is effective, fun, and follows a theme, but it may not parse the highest." So, again perspective. you dont have to follow every youtube build to a T, most of the time, it's players just showing what theyve run and tested. Use multiple videos, articles, and setups as what they are - guides. Crowd source the info and come up with something for yourself, copy them exactly, whatever floats your boat.
Finally, the whole "tank and healers arent support" i think is a bit silly. That's fundamentally what those two roles do in the holy trinity of MMORPGs. The tank aggros the enemies, the healer keeps the tank and DPS alive, and the DPS kill things. Thinking critically, the most optimal way to beat an encounter would be for the tank and the healer to find the minimum amount of tankability and healing they need respectively, and then after that focus their attention on making the DPS as buffed up as physically possible. That's what group play is. Just because it isnt written down in an official document doesnt mean that it's wrong. A group with a pure defense tank or a pure healer who offer little dmg support are not going to be as effective as a group who's tank and healer provide buffs to their DPS. But again, keep perspective based on the content youre choosing to run.
But, that's my take on the thread. Hope that gives some new perspective/insight
Edited by Dottzgaming on December 20, 2018 3:20PM12 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its a medium set. Thats a dps set on a tank. Fact.
I know, I acknowledged that. See Below:
"In terms of wearing Weapons and Jewelry of Alkosh, yeah it is a DPS set. If you can find a Tank set that provides the debuff it does, I would think that would be a perfectly fine exchange."PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
What are you on? The goal of the fight is to kill the boss, not stand there mitigating damage to see how long you can survive.
Also, just because a set is medium doesn't make it a dps set. Christ, do you even read what sets do? Dps literally use a heavy armor set in the "meta" right now, does that make them tanks?
Really? So tanks need weapon damage?
So tanks need critical wep dam?
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kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »Also, just because a set is medium doesn't make it a dps set. Christ, do you even read what sets do? Dps literally use a heavy armor set in the "meta" right now, does that make them tanks?
A damn set that doesn't have a bow option!!
(Sorry, still salty about that)PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc1 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭When you say buff the group, you really want to say "buff dps"
That right there really fires me up. Like the game is wrapped around dps. If dps want more burn, they should buff themselves. Dps dont get to determine what Tanks and Healer wear.
Just because these so called competition groups have found ways to cheese a trial does not mean it the responsibility of the tank or healer to buff the group. This is nothing more than cheese.
You dont see tanks and healers asking dps to taunt a boss, or mitigate damage or heal the group
Theyre 2 other roles who are just as important.
Imo these are not competition level groups. These are cheese trial groups with dps who sacrifice 2 other roles
No thanks bro.
It is part of a healer's job and tank's job to buff the group and debuff enemies. Why wouldn't you want to help your group succeed? You understand that trials are a group effort, right...? That you should all be trying to help each other succeed as much as possible? Why WOULDN'T you want to increase your total group DPS or give your teammates more survivability or sustain?
Your argument about 'you don't see anyone asking DPS to taunt' is silly; why would you be asking a DPS to do the tank's job? They have their own mechanics and role to worry about, just as tanks and healers have theirs. I don't ask a tank to heal the entire group constantly, either, or a healer to taunt the boss (usually; ofc I'll taunt the last boss of vDSA).
IDK about you as a tank, but as a healer if all I did was heal, that would be a really boring trial.
Also?I have a healer with the same set up.
Olorime is a healer set because it increases youre heals. The extra bene is the buff.
Not even close to the scenario of asking a tank to dawn dps gear when none of the trsits help the tank its job better. Everything you listed helps you heal more effectively
No. You use Olo for the buff for everyone to dip a toe in. There are other sets that supply more 'healing done' than Olo. You go for Olo because the buff is fantastic.
PC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.3 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭kathandira wrote: »The tanks job is not to recover a wipe. A tanks job is to hold the boss, control the adds, debuff them all and support your group. In all new trials, you achieve nothing by being tanky and being the last man standing, because as soon as you drop the block for a rez, you will receive a one hit mechanic, or you get somebody up with half health, which dies to the next mechanic, maybe you even lose the taunt on the boss in that time. It is not the tanks job to rez people.
We are constantly reminding our DPS of this. It pains me to see Tanks or Healers rezing people. 8 DPS all frothing at the mouth trying to pour out as much DPS as possible, completely ignoring the dead person right under their feet. As a healer, I can only stand to watch that for so long before I either have to call someone out to get the rez going, or I just do it myself.
Its because they have it in there heads they matter the most. Eveyone else is their to support them.
Not to be harsh to my team, but it is because they are casual gamers and lack the situation awareness of a high performing raider. I play this game because of how casual friendly it is. But I used to be a competative raider for many years. So I have certain things ingrained into my brain that they don't. It's nothing against them, we just think and play differently. To be fair, we have a handful of dps who are on top of rezes, but they aren't in the majority.
I'm sure if I was in a competitive Trails guild, it would be much different.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »Lol ok ESO Daily. Guess I'll just stop making videos then.
Im not eso daily. And I liked you0 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
What are you on? The goal of the fight is to kill the boss, not stand there mitigating damage to see how long you can survive.
Also, just because a set is medium doesn't make it a dps set. Christ, do you even read what sets do? Dps literally use a heavy armor set in the "meta" right now, does that make them tanks?
Really? So tanks need weapon damage?
So tanks need critical wep dam?
Just because it has one of those piece bonuses doesn't mean it's a DPS set. There's plenty of viable DPS sets with 1 piece health, that doesn't mean they're tank sets. The 5 piece set bonus is what makes the biggest impact. Sure the others come into play, but the difference between 1 piece weapon crit and having another 4% healing taken is not going to be nearly as big as debuffing the enemy by 3010 penetration which effectively gives nearly 300 weapon or spell damage to 8 of your dps.Brodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.
mitigate damage for the group - Support
weaken boss damage - Support
crowd control - Support
Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.
As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.
What are you on? The goal of the fight is to kill the boss, not stand there mitigating damage to see how long you can survive.
Also, just because a set is medium doesn't make it a dps set. Christ, do you even read what sets do? Dps literally use a heavy armor set in the "meta" right now, does that make them tanks?
Really? So tanks need weapon damage?
So tanks need critical wep dam?
Just because it has one of those piece bonuses doesn't mean it's a DPS set. There's plenty of viable DPS sets with 1 piece health, that doesn't mean they're tank sets. The 5 piece set bonus is what makes the biggest impact. Sure the others come into play, but the difference between 1 piece weapon crit and having another 4% healing taken is not going to be nearly as big as debuffing the enemy by 3010 penetration which effectively gives nearly 300 weapon or spell damage to 8 of your dps.
Oh. Ok. It not a dps set.
Its only a medium set
It only has weapon damage
It only has weapon critical..
Oh ok. I understand0
This discussion has been closed.